(navigation image)
Home American Libraries | Canadian Libraries | Universal Library | Community Texts | Project Gutenberg | Biodiversity Heritage Library | Children's Library | Additional Collections
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload
See other formats

Full text of "General Court Martial Proceedings, Seattle Port of Embarkation, Seattle, 4, Washington"

w^ 



VOLUME TWO 



FRI November 24 


(cont.) 




5 


449-458 


Cpl. Maj. Osvaldo Grossi 


IS 


28ISU 


458-481 


Pvt. Antonio Pisciottano 


IS 


28 ISU 


482-484 


Sgt. Grant Noel Farr 


IG 


SCU7909 


485-487 


T/5 Edward S. Haskell 


IG 


SCU 7909 


487-490 


Site visitation proposal 






SAT November 25 






6 


' ■ 491-503 


Cpl. Maj. Vittorio Bellieni 


IS 


28 ISU 


503-508 


Pvt. Attilio Vencato 


IS 


28 ISU 


508-514 


Cpl. Maj. Lulgl Furlanelli 


IS 


28 ISU- "---'" 


r • 514-519 


Cpl. Maj. VIrgllio Manca 


IS 


28 ISU 


519-525 


Pvt. Ego Fugazzo 


IS 


28 ISU 


526-528 


Sgt. Maj. Gaetano Pagllaminuta 


IS 


28 ISU 


529-532 


Site visitation preparation 






532-534 


Site visitation report 






MON November 27 






7 


535-566 


Cpl. Richard King 


BS 


650 PC 


( 567-609 


Sgt. Robert Gresham 


BS 


650 PC 


609-615 


Sgt. Thurman McCra6 Jones 


MP 


MP Section 


616-624 


T/5 William A. [F] Cunningham 


BS 


650 PC 


624-631 


T/5 Addison G. George 


BS 


650 PC 


632-645 


Pfc. Jack Chapman 


BS 


651 PC ^'r 


645-649 


T/5 Harvey Banks 


BS 


650 PC 


649-655 


T/5 Johnnie Mack Sanders 


BS 


650 PC 


TUE November 28 






8 


656-661 


Pvt. Imo Nolgi 


IS 


28 ISU 


;-" 661-671 


Sgt. Maj. Antonio Urbano 


IS 


28 ISU 


• 671-676 


Pvt. Gennaro lodice 


IS 


28 ISU 


677-682 


Cpl. Maj. Rosario Sidoti 


IS 


28 ISU 


682-704 


Sgt. Mario Marcelli 


IS 


28 ISU 


r' . 704-719 


S/Sgt. Charles Mack Robinson 


MP 


MP Section 


719-738 


Maj. George H. McNay 





FtL 


739-752 


Maj. William Walter Orem 





FtL Staging Area 


WED November 29 






9 


753-759 


Maj. Robert H. Manchester 





POE Intelligence & Security 


760-770 


T/5 Nathaniel T. Spencer 


D 


650 PC 


770-786 


Maj. Robert H. Manchester 


O 


POE Intelligence & Security 


787-808 


Pfc. Roy L. Montgomery 


D 


651 PC 


808-815 


Lt. Col. Curtis L. Williams 





Inspector General Div., DC 


818-826 


Maj. Robert H. Manchester 





POE Intelligence & Security 


827-848 


T/5 Willie Prevost, Sr. 


D 


650 PC 


848-855 


Maj. Robert H. Manchester 





POE Intelligence & Security 


THU November 30 






10 


856-870 


Mrs. Lu M. Henderson 


C 


Overseas Supply Division 


870-890 


Sgt. Ralph E. Young 


ID 


Intelligence & Security Div. 


890-895 


Maj. Robert H. Manchester 





POE Intelligence & Security 


896-907 


Mr. Forrest Jack Freeman 


ID 


Intelligence & Security Div. 


908-918 


Mr. Benjamin J. Glasgow 


ID 


War Department 


919-923 


T/5 Ernestyne S. Morgan 


C 


Overseas Supply Division 


923-932 


Sgt. Robert C. Fiske 


ID 


Intelligence & Security Div. 


932-942 


Lt. Col. Curtis L. Williams 





Inspector General Div., DC 


942-948 


Maj. Robert H. Manchester 





POE Intelligence & Security 




VOLUME TWO 



^ 




■ 


p 


* 

ARMY fiF.RVIOE FORCES 
RF.ATTLE PORT OF EMBARKATION 
SEATTLE, 4, WASHINGTON 

General Coiirt iiartial 
Fort Lawton Staging Area 
Fort Lav?ton, Washington 


1 


- 


VOLUME TWO 


fl 


Pages 449 - 948 




r 


n 



^ 



The Cour-t Rooonvonod at 1:30 p.m., 24 NovombGr 1944. 

President: Is the Prosooution ree,dy to proccod? 

Trial JudGO Advocnto: The Prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Is the Defense ready? 

Defense: The Defense is ready, sir. 

President: The Court 7Jill oome to 03?dcr. 

A roll onll \7ns then conducted hy the Assistant Trial 
Judge Advocate of the accused, \7ho were seated in the Court room. 

Trial JudG^ Advocate: Let the record shot?, if the Court 
pler.sc, thrt each of the accused is present, that ell mvanbers of 
the Court are present, and that the personnel representinc the 
accused are present as -roll as the personnel of the prosecution. 

The interpreter and reporter were also present. 

Trial Jud^e Mvocate: I offer in evidence at this time a 
letter of .'^rnnt of immunity to th^ 7rt.tnt:;ss Thomr.s Battle. 

Lay Member: The letter of immunity to Battle is admitted 
in evidence as Prosecution Exhibit S7. 

The letter of immunity to Private Thomas Battle is rar.rked 
Prosecution Exhibit 27 "-nd received in evidence. 

Prosecution Exhibit 27 was th^a read to the Court by the 
Trial Judfro Advocate. 

Corporal Major Osvnldo Grossi, 28th Italian ^,,uartermaster 
Service Company, a v;itness for the prosecution, was sworn ajid 
testified through the interpreter, as follows: 

DIHBCT SiLAIvHiUTION 
C^uestions by Trial Judc'o Advocate: 

:; State your full name, 
A Osvaldo Grossi. 

Q, And your grade. 
A Corporal Major. 

Q And your orcanization? 

A 28th Italian -uarterraastor Service Company. 

(^ And your station. 
A Mt. Rainier. 

(; Do you spealc the Enrlish lanGuage? 
A No. 

449 



I 



o WoPQ you evor stationed at Fort La-wton, WashinQton? 
JL Yos, 



V 



Wero you stctioned nt Fort Lawton, V/asliinf;ton, in the month 
of AuGUst, 1944? 
A Yes. 

Q Do you recall the incidont on tho ni.,hi: of Aiif:ust 14, 1944, 
when some N.j.3ro soldiers ontorod the Itclicii area at Fort 
LGwton? 

A Yes. 

C Do you recall the number of thu barracks in ahich you stayed? 
A Yes. 

(j, Give us thrt number, please. 
A 708. 

C^ Where were you when this incident you have referred to occurred? 
A I \TOs in my barraolos. 

Q, What wero you do in,-; at the time? 
A I T7as in my bunk asleep. 

'.^ What happened thr.t first attracted your attention to something 

unusual occurring? 
A ThroTJinc stones onto the barracks. 

Q, After you heard the stones beinp. throvjn against the barracks, 

■>tiat, if anything, did you do? 
A I got up and I went into the orderly room. 

Q, Why did you ^d into the orderly room? 

A Because I sav/ everybody wise running that v-jay, 

(^ Are you havin-- reference to the Italian orderly room in thr.t 

area? 
A Yes . 

i^ After you reached the orderly room, yhr.t did you do? 
A I was in there rjid they 'aeTo oalling rac — the iimericans 
wero telophonin,:- to ret the nilitary police, 

r„ While you v;ere in the orderly room did anything of an unusual 

nature tr-Jce place? 
A The Negroes ocjae . 

(„ Were they or not Negro soldiers? 
A Yes, Negro soldiers. 

Q, Nov; come yith ma to this map on this board, and I want to 
explain to you that this is a plr.t of the orderly room. It 
is Prosecution Exhibit 3, This is the side door to the 
orderly room, r.nd this is the froxit door to the orderly 
room. (To interpreter) Please interpret that to him. Nov;, 
throucrh which door did you enter to cot into the orderly rooiu? 

450 



■ 



K 



A This one {pointing;). 



No-;; you pointed to door A? 
A A, door A, 



^ 



s, Aftor you entered throu.ih door A \7here did you go? 
A Throut-^h door D; inside there. 

'% Through door D r.xid inside there. Nor; "there" is marked 

ho 17 — T/hat room? 
A In there (pointing), 

^ Point to it, 

A (Witness points.) 

Trial Judco Advocate: You TJill stipulate he pointed to 
room X? 

Defense: Thr.t's rlcht, 

•vt Not, those Nor-ro soldiers that you said you scv enter, throur^h 

which door did they oomc? 
A This one, from here (pointinr.). 

U, This door is desir.-natod V7hat , now 9 
A A. 

Q, Door ii, (To interpreter) Will you tell him any room thct ho 
mentions in his testimony, any doors the. t he refers to, to 
call them by the desir:nation that appears on the map. 

Defense: Counsel, if he doesn't do th:.t, as for cs I am 
concGrnod you may for the record tell rjhat ho points to and 
any time I disacroe I will nr.kc it knoi/vn. 

Trial JudGO ^-dvocQte: All rifht, I prefer ho does it, 
but if he don't I v/ill have to do it that 7;ay. 

M, Ho understands. 

(i, About hov7 many Ne^ro soldiers did you see enter through door 
A? 

A About seven or oifht, 

(» And will you tell the Court where they went? 

A They entered throurh door A, the NcrroGB, and mo 'were insido 

the Amoricrn orderly room X, Three or four placed desks and 

tables analnst door D vihioh v/as closed, 

Q, When was door D closed? Before or after the Hgqtq soldiers 

entered throur;h door A? 
A It was closed before the Nccrocs entered room X. 

Q Before they entered room X, But v/hen the Negroes entered 
through door A, at that time nas door D closed or open? 

451 



1 



A Ygs, door D ■.•7ns open. 

ici Ho^ far had tho l^ccroGs ontored boforo door D 77a s closed? 
A About tTTo yards or so, 

Q, About tT70 yards or so. Do you knov? ^lio closed door D? 
A There v;as about ton of us in there. I oon't ^ive you the 
names of ^ho it rjas. 

Q, Will you toll tho Court TJhether or not cnythinf' ^Qs done ^ith 

respect to attomptin,':; to keep door D closod? 
A Wo placed desks and little tab Is s CT-inst the door. 

(i All ri.-;ht. Did door D renr.in closed? 

A- It roraoined closod for a little while and then they openod 
it. 

^ Who openod it? 
A The No^^roos. 

vi After they opened door D what, i£ anythin:;, happened? 
A When they opened door D I ran In towards door B. 

Q, Hov7 did the Nofrro soldiers cain entrance through door D? 
A They orcehod throur?.h the door. 

Interpreter: Strike that. I am sorry. 

A They crashed the door down, 

Q,. Do you know T7ith what they crashed It down? 
A No, that I don't know. 

'i All richt. Now 7*ion you first saw the Nonro soldiers oominc 
throuGh door A did you or not recormize rjiy of them that you 
were later to identify? 

A At another day, yes, I saw then, 

(; State vftiether or not you at a show-up picked out a NGgro 
soldier whom you saw comins throuc'h door A on the oooasicm 
in question? 

A Yes. 

Q Will you come with rao end carefully look over the Nec.ro 

soldiers th^.t aro seated hero, who ore the accused, cjid tell 
me if you see amonf; theix niimber tic soldier th:^t you 
identified. Turn over Iks re and look at each one carefully. 

A (Witness inspects accused seated in the court room.) 

(VJitness points to one of the accused.) 

q, Which one ore you pointing to? This men? Are you positive? 
A Yes, 

Trial Judge i-dvocate: If the Court pleas u, he pointed to 
a soldier seated next to the end on the front row. 

453 




Law Member: The man being pointed to will please stand 
up and give his name. 

The individual indicated by the witness then arose and 
announced his name, as follows: Private Elva Shelton. 

Q, Private Elva Shelton. And about how lonri has it been sinoe 

you have seen that man? 
A Two or three days. I saw him at Fort Lawton here about a 

month and a half or two months ago. 

That waa the last time? 
A The last time was about two months. 

Vv Now, I will ask you whether or not you were requested to 
make identification of the man you saw from a shon-up that 
was held of a number of Negro soldiers? 

A Yes. 

Q, About how many Negro soldiers were present at the time you 

made that identification? 
A About 500 soldiers. 

Did you at that time or not identify any Negro soldier other 
than the one you have just pointed to? 
A No. 

i(. Were you at any time shown photographs of Negro soldiers? 
A Yes. 

Q, Who showed you those photographs? 
A The Colonel. 

to Are you referring to me? 

A Yes. 

Did you or not at that time select the photograph of the man 
you have just pointed to? 
A Yes. 

C^ Do you recall ha;/ many photographs I exhibited to you at that 

time? 
A About twenty. 

s, All right, I will ask you to take a look at l>'Iajor Beeks, the 
Defense Coimsel, seated over there. The handsome one on the 
left. 

Law Member: Will you please rise, Major? 

Defense: I would be very happy to, if the Court please. 

t^ Have you ever seen that gentleman before? 
A Yes. 

453 



1 



i^ Did he ever show you any photographs? 
A Yes. 

C^ And about how many did he shOT7 ycxi? 
A About five or six, 

Cv Did you or not at that time select the soldier that you have 

just identified for the Court? 
A Yes. 

s, Now, when you saw the soldier ^om you have identified enter 
door A, state whether or not he was carrying anything in his 
hand. 

A He had a olub. 



(.,, Now. ket's get back to tho time that the door was broken down, 
door D. iis you saw that that door was broken down, what did 
you do? 

A I entered through door B, 

And after you entered through door B, what did you do? 
A When I entered door B I ran iinder th3 bed. 

C4 Ran under the bed. Now, just vdiere was this bed? 
A This one ( indioatinG) . 

(^ Now he pointed to a place that has been marked in room Z, 
marked "bed RF" on this Prosecution Exhibit 3, 

Lair Member: The one near the window. 

Trial Judge advocate: Yes, th^ one near the window. That's 
right, sir. 

(„ V/ell, did you stay under the bed or did you leave? 
A I Glways remained under the bed until the very last. 

Ci Well, when was it that you felt that it was safe to coup out 

from under the bed? 
A I was under ttere about twenty minutes before I left. 

Q, Well, when you came out from under the bed did you see anybody 

in the orderly room? 
A The military police vfere there. 

Q, I see. You may have your seat. How old are you? 
A 24. 

C„ Did you receive any injuries on llie nif,ht in question? 
A No. 

(^ Were you over found by any colored soldiers while you were 

under the bod? 
A No, none, 

454 



I 



<i Did you or not look out from under the bed at any time? 
A Yes . 

Q For very long or for just a very short poriod of time? 
A 1 oould see very little. All I could see ^;7ere the legs. 

Q, Did you stick yoiir head out from under the bed at any 

^timc? 
A No. 

Q, Nov7, did you see an Italian soldier by the naire of Rino 

Ferrante that night? 
A Yes. He fell there right by the side of the bed \inder ^ioh 

I was. 

Ci Did you see anything happen to Rino Ferrante after he fell 

on the floor? 
A Someone gave him a boot in the face, 

Qi, Gave him a boot in the face. You come T7lth me a minute, 

please, I want you to show the Court, Now, you have testi- 
fied that you were under this bed that is next to the window 
in room Z (indicating on Prosecution Exhibit 3). 

A Yes. 

Q, Now, about \Vhore was Rino Ferrante on the floor? 
A Here like this (indicating). 

Q, All right, I will just moke a lino like this, and his initials 
are OG, are they not, and it will be marked "OG" with a 
straight line in room Z. 

Defense: In green ink. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, kind of blue, 

Q, And state whether or not you saw Rino Ferrante laying on the 

floor there? 
A Yes. 

(i, Now, could you see who it was that kicked him in the face? 
A No, I oould not. 

Qi How much of the person that was doing the kicking oould you 

see from where you were? 
A Up to here I saw him (indicating), 

Cg Indicating below the knee. 

Defense: Right. 

Q, Whore you indicated Rino Ferrante was lying, in which direction 

was his head and in which direction his feet? 
A His feet were here and his head was here (indicating). 

455 



Ci Hi^.7 feet wore tovjctrds the bud and his ht;ad, of course, in 
rjiother direction. Is that cler>r enough? He is speaking 
of the bed thr.t is next to the windov? in room Z, of course. 
You may hc.vc a seat (to -.Titnoss). 

Trial Judge iidvocatei The Prosecution has no further 
questions, if the Court ploase, 

CRO SS-EXMIINaTIDN 
Questions by Defense: 

Q, Grossi, r7hero -"ere you talc on prisoner? 
A Sicily. 

(^ And hov; long had you boon in the Italian Army before you were 

taken prisoner? 
A Four years, 

ti Come over here by the map ^'Tith mo, Grossi, Not?, at the time 
you identified tha soldier \7hom you have identified hero 
today, you •.7ero in room X? 

A Yes. 

(v And approximately vjhere V7ere you in room X? 
A (Witness indicates.) 



About rigiit here. Let's mark that — 
A A little hiGher. 



-it 



Q, Well, have him show me. 
A (Witness indicates.) 

Q, Abo ut he re ? 
A Yes. 

'■i You are sure of that noT7? 
A Yes. 

Q, All right, I will mark that "OG 1". Not;, at the time you 
saw the soldljr whom you identified he was in door A here, 
was he? 

A The door was open this way ( indica tinf:) . 

Ci Yes. 

A To the outside, and lie was here (indicating). 

^ Right hare? 
A Yes. 

Q, Well, let's mark that "OG 2". Now, :;4iat wns he doing? Was 
ho standing there or was ho moving on his way in? 

A There were three or four of them there, and the rest of them 
were on the little stairs, and they wore crying out "Come 
on, come on, let's go." 

456 



C^, But the man you sa^ and have idontif iod horc today, was ho 
just standing still in the doorvjay or was he moving into 
the inside of the building? 

A They vjorc still standing there in the doorway. 

fj He wasn't moving towards you at that time? 
A No. 

Q, Well, now, come over here c, moment and start from here and 

paoe off just about the distanoc you think it was from where 
you were standing to where you saw the soldier standing. 

A (Witness paces as requested.) About here, 

Q, You think that was about the distance? 
A Yes. 

Law Ifembcr: Let's agree on that now. 

Defense: I thought I would pace it ■^nd give it in paces. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I think wo con make it perhaps a 
little more accurate than that. 

Defense: All right. Lot's get my rule. 

The Trial Judge Advocate and Defense Counsel then measure 
the distance indicated by the witness. 

Defense: Approximately twenty-seven feet. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Ti:7enty- seven? 

Defense: Four times and twenty-six inches over. Oh, tv/enty- 
three feet. 

Trial Judge Advocate' That is better. 

Defense: I think I observed this morning^ if the Court 
please, my arithmetic wasn't too accurate. 

'■i, Sit down, Gross i. Does door D open and shut ss shown on 

Prosecution Exhibit 3? 
A Yes. 

Q, How was the door at that time? 
A When it was open? 

Qi I want to know ha; it was at the time that ho saw this 

soldier, 
A It was open, 

Q, Clear up against the wall? 
A Yes, almost completely open. 

Q, Almost completely open. Nov/, did the man that you saw have 
a mustache that night? 

457 



A I don't remember. I didn't take any notioe. 

'^ Well, \vas there any particulcr reason you couldn't tell 

whether he had a mustache or not? 
A I Jist didn't take notice. 

Q, Was the light shining in his face in such a way that you 

couldn't tell? 
A The light was on, but I just didn't pay any attention to 

it. 

it, Weil, Grossi, do you remember when I talked to you down at 

Mt. Rainier? 
A Yes. 

Cfc Captain Noyd here was with me? 
A Yes, 

\u Lt . Gagliardo was here with me? 
A Yes. 



14 And a stenographer was with me? 
A Yes, there was a woman there. 

(fc Well, do you remember that I asked you at that time if the 

man you saw had a mustache? 
A Yes, he asked me. 

Q, And didn't you say at that tine that the light from room R 
struck the man in such a way that you couldn't tell? 

A I told you also that I wasn't sure whether he had it or 
whether he didn't. 

(i Well, did you tell me at that time that the light struck the 
man in the door in such a way tiiat you couldn't tell whether 
he had a m:iistache or not? 

A No, I didn't. 

C; Are you sure he thoroughly understands that now (to 

interpreter)? 
A Yes J he understands it. 

Defense: That is all the questions I have. 

Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution has no further 
questions, if the Court please. 

Defense: I have no further questions. 

President: Any questions by the Court? Appear to be none. 
The witness may be excused,, 

There being no further questions, the witness was excused 
and withdrew. 

Corporal Major Antonio Pisoiottano, 28th Italian 'quartermaster 

458 



Service Company, a witness for the prosecution, was sworn and 
testified through the interpreter, as follows: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

CoUestions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q, State your name, your full name; state your given name to us? 
A My first name is Pisoiottano; my second name is Antonio 

Interpreter: It is to the contrary he says now, 

C It is Antonio Pisoiottano? 
A Yes. 

Q, P-i-s-c-i-o-t-t-a-n-o. Antonio is the given name. And 

what is your grade? 
A Corporal Major. 

Q, And your organization? 

A 28th Italian quartermaster Service Company. 

Q, And your station? 
A Mr. Rainier. 

Q, Do you speak English? 

A I speak it very little, I understand quite a bit, but I 
speak very little. 

li Can you speak English well enough to testify to this Court 

in the English language? 
A No, I can't. Not that v;oll. 

Q, The English that you say that you know, how long have you 

known that much English? 
A I understand for about five or six months, but the fact 

that I havon't been able to practice it enough is the reason, 

Qi How long have you spoken any English? 

A I studied it in the schools in Italy, but I have studied so 
little of it that I can't speak it. 

Q, All right. Were you ever stationed at Fort Law ton , Washington? 
A Yes, 

(■i. Were you stationed there in the month of August, 1944? 
A Yes. 

Q Did you recall the incident that occurred at Fort Lawton 

where some Negro soldiers entered the Italian area on August 
14, 1944? 

A Yes. 

Q, In ^at barracks did you stay in that Italian area at Fort 

Lavi^tcn? 
A 709 . 

459 



Q, Have him come up here. This Prosecution Exhibit No. 2 shows 
a map of the Italian area dns some additional area at Fort 
Lawton, and this is the Lav^ton Road that leads to the Italian 
area, and hero is barracks 708, barracks 709, and here is 
the orderly room. 

A I understand. 

Q, All right. Now, were you in your barracks in 709 on the 

night of August 14 about 11:00? 
A I was not in my barracks. 

Q, All right. Yfhere had you been? 
A I was on pass in Seattle. 

Ct, About when did you oome to or did you return that night to 

the Italian area? 
A It must have been about 11:20 or 11:25, I can't tell 

exactly. I didn't have a watch in my pocket, so I can't 

tell. 

Q, Now, who were you with that night? 

A There xi&s Private Belle and Sergeant Fumarola. I made a 

mistake. Belle is a Corporal IVIajor, and Sergeant Fumarola. 

^ As you entered the Italian area that night on the way to your 

barracks, did anything of an unusual nature take place? 
A Yes, on the road prior to arriving at the barracks. 

(■i. All right. ?/ill you relate to the Court wliat that incident 

was? 
A In the premises of the iimerican mess liall wc met some Negroes, 

Q How many of them? 

A V/ith exactness, I don't know. I saw three, 

Q. Now, you said in the vicinity of the American mess hall? 
A "this mess hall here (indicating), 

Q, Well, let aiQ shoiw you on the map T.hat thcj mess hall and what 
the road is that has been agreed to. This is the Lawton 
Road that runs to the Italian area. 

A The mess hall was this one (indicating). 

Law Member: He points to 700, 

Interpreter: He states building 700, 

Q, Now, viftien you were in the vicinity of that mess hall you say 

you met some colored soldiers. Did anything happen? 
A Yes, something happened, 

Cg Will you tell the Court what it was. 

A At the moment that we met they ?iiere going up and we were going 
down towards our barracks. One of these three soldiers, he 
expressed himself with vulgar words, those few which I under- 
stood, and, therefore, Belle ask of m& what did they say. I 
told him never mind; don't let it bother you; let's go to bed« 

460 



let's go to sleep, Hov;ever, one of these three stopped and 
said, "Hey, Italian," and this colored soldier asked, "What 
do you v/ant?" Belle stopped but we continued. Fumarola 
and I took about five, six or seven steps, I am not sure, 
and turned around to see wJiat was happening, and we saw that 
this Negro was attempting to strike a blow at Belle but the 
Negro wasn't in time since Belle struck him. But I don't 
know how he struck him, whether it was with his fist. I 
believe it was with his fist, but I don't know. 

Q, Now, could you tell whether or not this Negro that had 
advanced toward Belle had anything in his hand? 

^ I saw something shiny, some sort of blad, but from the 

distance from where I was standing I could not exactly say 
what it was. I could not tell what it was, 

(t, Was this a Negro soldier? 
A Yes. 

Ci Hov/ was he carrying this object in his hand? 
A I can't say with precision because I just saw him in an 
act with his hand raised high. 

Q How far was he from belle when you saw that? 
A They were close together, very close together. 

C In which hand was this Negro soldier currying this object? 
A In his right . 

(^ Did you see ¥;hat became of the Negro soldier? 
A I saw him fall to the ground. 



s< 



After he fell to the ground what, if anything, did you do? 
i* I called Belle and I told him that we better go before 
something else happened, 

v All right. What did you do then? 
A I went into my barracks. The others, I don't know. 

t«, Did you see whether or not the others were leaving the 

scene there about the time you were*** 
A Yes, because Belle lives in Barracks 708 and Sergeant 

Fumarola lives in the same barracks as I do, and he came 

with me, 

<^ Now, after you reached your barracks did you or not — 

Well, let's put it this way, After you reached your barracks 
what did you do? 

A I went into the latrine to take care of personal matters, 
washed my hands, cleaned ray teeth. 

Q, That is 712? 
A Yes, 712. 

it, After you left the latrine, where did you go? 
A I returned to my barracks. 

461 



Q, And after returning to your barracks vdiat did you do? 

A I asked somebody there exactly what time it was because I 
saw everybody sleeping. He told me that he didn't ^^nov^ 
the exact time; it xias about 11:30 or so, right after wMch 
he said, "I hear some noise", but I didn't pay any attention 
to it. 

(i, Now, describe the sort of noise you heard? 
A It wasn't me that heard it then, it was the other soldier 
that told me he heard the noise. 

Law Member: Leave that out. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, I will agree that be stricken, 
if the Court please. 

Law Member: "Somebody told me he heard noise," goes out, 

Q, When did you first hear, or did you hear a noise that evening? 
A And how I heard it, yes. 

Q, Well, what kind of noise did you hear? 

A I heard stoning, and I heard them shout, you know, how they 

shout when they attack. If you know Negroes you know how they 

shout 7;hen they attack. 

Q, Was it verj'- loud shouting? 

Defense: I move to strike that last answer as being pre- 
judicial and not responsive. 

Trial Judge Advocate:! think maybe that part should be stricken. 

Law Member: "You know how Negroes shout when they attack" 
may be stricken out. 

H, After tie stoning and shouting what, if anything, did you do? 
A I went out the door of barracks 709 to make sure, to see what 
was happening, 

Q, Well, after you went to see what was happening what did you 

do? 
A I saw that they were beginning to break Windows; that they 

were beginning to throw stones; and I saw several Negro 

soldiers in front of the barracks. 



c. 



Which barracks? 

The barracks on top — 708, 



Q, 708, After you saw that, what, if anything, did you do? 
A I reentered the barracks and I picked up a piece of iron from 
the b\ink. 

Q, All right. After you picked up this piece of iron vtiere did 
you go? 

462 



A I had the intention of protecting myself, hut upon going out- 
side I savj that the itbss vias too great so I v7ont tov/ards the 
woods 77hore our recreation hall building is. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Major, I doi't know. Do you know 
whore the recreation hall is? 

Defense: Yes, I know. 

Trial Judge Advocate: You know it is this 731 indicated 
over here? 

Defense: Yes. 

Trial Judge Advocate: May I mark that "recreation hall"? 

Defense: Oh, yes. (^uite all right. 

Q, (To interpreter) You might tell him it has been agreed that 

this is the recreation hall, 731, 
A Very well. 

Q, How long did you stay down there in the recreation holl? 
A No, I didn't go inside, 

U, I didn't moan to say that you did, hut my question may have 
hecai misleading, WlToreabouts at or near this recreation hall 
did you go? 

A The way I see it ao^ , right on the rjght angle of the barracks. 

(^ Does he mean the recreation hall? 

A Yes. On the loft of the Colonel and on your right. 

Interpreter: Ho was speaking of mo, 

(i How close to the recreation hall? 

A About ton or fifteen yards from my loft, 

Q, Ten or fifteen yards from the recreation hall. I will got to 
the side in a minute. Did you go behind the rucreation hall, 
or stay in front of it, or go to the side of it? 

A To the side. 

<^ Which side? 

A The right. That part there (indicating). 

Law Mcrabor: Is that north? 

Trial Judge Advocate* That would be the north side, yos, 
sir. 

A That is whore the woods are • 

Q, Well, about how long did you stay at that spot? 
A Just c few seconds. 

463 



Q, And then from there T;*iere did you go? 
A I had the intention of going into the woods, Hovvevcr , 
instead I i/jent to the orderly room. 

Q, All right. NoT7, this is a plat of the orderly room (indica- 
ting Prosecution Exhibit 3). This is the front door, that 
is door A; door E is the side door; and this door leading 
frcra room R to room X is door D; and the door that leads 
from room X to room Z, that door is designated as door B, 
Then you have a doorway betwocn X and Y that is designated 
as C. 

A Very well. 

Q, Not/, when you refer to any room on this plat or to any door, 

refer to it hy the letter, designation, will you? 
A I understand. 

Q Now, which was did you enter the orderly room? 
A From door A. 

il, And \7here did you go from door A? 

A I trn versed door D and I entered room X, 

C^ At that time were there any Negro soldiers in the orderly 

room? 
A No, there vjas none. 

<4 Did you continue to stay in room X or did you move elsewhere? 
A I remained in room X until the Negro soldiers ariired, 

Q, Through which door did the Negro soldiers enter? 

A I saw them enter from door A. Then thuy traversed the 
corridor, because there is a corridor that is not shown 
there, and they opened door D and they entered into the 
room X, 

Q All right. About how many wore there? 

A I don't believe it 7/as an opportune moment to count them. 

tt V\fell, will you estimate how many entered? 

A I would say something stupid. I don't know, I can't say, 

Q, Now, I am talking about the first ones that entered. 
A Oh, the first there was a group of about ten, twelve or 
fifteen. 

Q Did you have an opportunity to observe any of the Negro 

soldiers that entered the orderly room that ni^t and whom 
you were later able to identify? 

A (Witness makes no answer.) 

Interpreter: I will explain it to him. 

U, I will see if I can reframe the question. 
A Yes, I recognized one, 

464 



Q, Where did you mr.ko identif ioation of this one you rGCognized? 
A About so von or eight days Inter. 

Q, About how many Negro soldiers ';7ore there in the shoiiv-up from 

which you selected this one? 
A I don't know whether it was 400, 500 or 600; but it was three 

or four hours I continually tried to recognize them. 

Q, Did you or not at thc.t time pick out n soldier whom you 

recognized as having boon in the orderly room that night? 
A Yes. 

Ci Were you at any time later on called upon again to identify 

this Negro soldier? 
A Yes. 

(fc Did you or not again identify the same soldier? 
A Yes. 

Q Did you at either of these times identify more than one Negro 

soldier? 
A Yes, the first time I identified about four or five — five. 

Q, Five, Did you at that time identify all of them positively or 
some positively and some without being certain, or how was 
your identification made? 

A One I -.Tas pretty sure of. However, the others were just 
probable and I wasn't too sure of it, 

Ci Now, I will Qsk you to come with me and look over this group 
of accused and see if you can select from their number the 
man that you say you saw in the orderly room that ni^t? 

A (Y/itnoss makes an inspection of the accused seated in the 

court room, ) Yes . 

Q, Come v;ith me and show me where Ix- is, 
A The fifth in the L-st row, 

Q, Is this the man (pointing to one of the accused,)? 
A Yes. 

Q, Ask him if hu knows his name? 
A No, I don't know, 

Q Vifas this the man (indicating one of the accused)? 
A Yes, sir. 

Law Member: Will the fifth man in the back row give his 
name, please? 

The individual indicated by the witness then arose and 
announced his name, as follows: Private William G, Jones. 

Trial Judge Advocato: Private William G. Jones, 

465 



Q, Nov;, I wunt you to toll tho Court ■'>7licre you saw the man you 
have just identified; where you scv/ him on the night in 
quDstion xihon you T7ore in the orderly room? 

A In doorv;ay A. 

Ci In doornay A,. Did ■ . or not this person you have identified 

ever enter door A? 
A Ho ^as at the ontranoo of the door. 

Q, All right. At the ontrcnoe of \7tBt door? 
A A. 

Ci Did you or not observe him to see \7hQt ho did after you 

first saw him? 
A There yore many there in the doorway there, but to v/as thG 

first one among them. 

Q, And T7hat does ho moan about being tho first one among thom. 

Ask him what he moans by that? 
A There tjore other Negroes here too — that v;ero behind him. 

Q There were other Negroes behind him. Did you see whether 

or not he come into room R? 
A No. 

Q Now, when you say there ware other Negroes behind him, will 
you explain to the Court ju^t what you mean by that? 

A In an entrance or doorway there is about one or two, I don't 
know, about one to two yards wide. Five or six could have 
entered all together, three or four, I don't know, according 
to the size of the doorway could enter. There was a group 
of soldiers there, which he happened to find himself among 
the first — no, not among tho first, but more ahead. 

Interpreter: You want to continue the discussion? 

Trial Judge Advocate: No, I think we know vftiat he moans. 
I wanted to make sure each member of the Court understood what 
he neant by the expression "tho others wore behind him". 

(i Why did y4u not see who thor that soldier came into room R? 

A I was standing in door wry D when I saw tlieni, but th^y were 

standing still and I remained there just for a moment to see 
what they would do or what they wouldn't do. In that moment 
of decision there were arriving stones, clubs, bricks. 
Therefore, naturally I closed the door. I couldn't stay 
there leaving tho door open. 

(^ What door did you close? 
A Door D. 

Q, All right. Who closed door D? 
A Mo. 

Q, How soon after door D was closed did — that is a little 

leading. I will strike that. After door D was closed did 

466 



you hcciT riiy noise in room R? 
A There T7r.s Q little hesltancc on their part bcfor;. they entered; 
they didn't entvjr ell of a sudden. There passed about a minute 
or so. I yr.s behind the door and a piece of iron I nas still 
carrying ^ith me I hnd placed up against the door and I yas 
holding it. At that moment there vJhilo I Tvas holding the 
door I could feel the door boin^r pushed in -- that they were 
pushing in. For a little \-aiilo I rosistod. Then there 
arrived a blo-7 of an r.x against the door o. little higher than 
my head. Therefore, I ceased resistance and the door opened. 

iill right, iifter the door opened state T7hothor or not any 
Negro soldiers entered room X? 
A Yes. 

Interpreter: Excuse me. Ho says he didn't understand my 
question. 

A Yes, they entered, 

C;, And V7here '.7ero you at that time? 

A For a fei;7 moments I remained behind the door. 

^ What door? 
A D. 

Q, Was door D open then? 
A Almost completely open. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Nov?, if the Court please, it is 
almost 3:00 end this is as good a place as any to take a 
recess. 

President: The Court v/ill take a recess until 3:15, 

The Court thereupon recessed at 3:00 p.m., 24 November 
1944, and reconvened at 3:20 p.m., 24 November 1944. 

President: Is the rsrosooution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge ^idvocate: Yes, sir. 

President: Is the defense ready to proceed? 

Defense: Yes, sir. 

President: The Court ^ill oome to order. 

Trial Judge ^»dvooatc: Let the record shou that each 
accused is present and all the members of the Court, the 
personnel representing the accused and the personnv;;! representing 
the prosecution. 

The Interpreter and Reporter \7ere also present. 

467 



^ 

I 



Corporal Major ^jjitonio Pisciottano, 28th Italian C^uc.rtor- 
mastor Service Compcjiy, n Tiitncss for the p?osooutian, again 
took the 'jitnoss scr.nd and oontinuod his tostiiaony through tho 
in t or pr Gt or , as f o 1 lov; s : 

Trial Judge iidYoocto: Tho vTitnoss is reminded ho is still 
under oath. 

The Witness: Yes. 

Q, Come YTlth me, pler.so. Did you or not ever leave room X 

while the Negro soldiers T7erc in there? 
A No, Right av7Qy, no. Not outside. A little later I just 

Tjont into the next room. 

<i In what room? 

i* Going through door B I untorod room Z. 

(s, Had the military police arrived by the time you ■;7cnt into 

room Z? 
A No. 

Q, Did you or not remain in room Z until tho military police 

arrived or did you go elso'v7horo? 
ii I exited from that to cm once moro. 

Q Where did you go uhon you exited from room Z? 
A I v?ent into room Y, but I did not ontor room Y because at 
doorT/ay C the Sergeant that T;as hurt vics there. 

'■^ Do you knov; whr.t Sergeant that t7Qb? 

Defense: What \ic.s that cjisTJor? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Ho said: "I did not enter room Y 
because tho Sergeant that was hurt was there," 

Q. Who was tho Sergeant, do you Imoy? Was he an Italian? 
i* Bigatti. 

Q, Well, point just vAiore Sergeant Bigatti was? 

A His head and part of his shoulders wore at this angle (indica- 
ting) and his feet were lying towards this direction (indica- 
ting.) 

Trial Judge Advocate: Ivlr.y v/c stipulate that what he said 
was that he was lying across doorway C, with his foot poirttcd 
towards room Z, towards tho corner of room Z. 

Defense: Sergeant Bigatti? 

Trial Judge Advocates Yos . The feet pointing towards the 
oornor of room Z. 

468 



Defense: Is that doflnitcly his axisv/or that ho pointed? 
Lc.M Member: Lying across the doorvjay. 

Interpreter: Ho ';jns in this positiai here he points; lying 
this T?ay (indicating). 

(; i*sk him ^Thero his feet xigtq7 
A On the inside of room X, 

ti Well, in T;hc.t direction mqtc his feet pointing? 

1* The exQOt position, I really didn't notice the excot position 

of his feet, because my attention was focused to his mouth 

which '.Tas bleeding. 

(.i All right. Who 10 yQs his hoad then? 
i» Right here (pointing). 

Q, All right. Wo T;ill put c; "XX" with an "ikP" on the side of it. 

A I am pretty sure that ho v/csn't longer than the length of the 

doorinay there and his feet ncre about here (indicating). 

Q. All right. About here ( indicating)? Point c^Qin. 
A (Witness points). I can't give it to you in the proportion 
of the length of the man, 

I think 7/ G knov; -v7hat ho moans and that is all that is important. 
Did you or not enter room Y? ^^ ^ ^ 

h No, because c.s I was going towards room Y I noticed that he 
was bleeding at the mouth, that he T;as having convulsions, 
so I stopped to pick him up and place him against the wall. 

i.i All right. After you placed Bigatti against tho wall, then 

in what room did you go? 
A At the moment that I was picking up BigQtti I was hit. 

\^ Do you know what you were struck with? 
A With a club. 

ti What Injury, if any, did you receive? 

ju I received a wound in the shape of a "V" on my left arm. 

Q, Well, after you were strtick what, if mything, did you do? 
A I threw myself into room Y. 

Q, iill right. After you threw yourself into room Y what, if 

anything, did you do? 
A At the same moment I spoke with the Negro soldiers that were 

standing at this point here (indicating). 

Qi. That is the w lad or?, that is outside the window, of room Y? 
A Yes. 

U, Well, what, if anything, did you say? ^ , . ^ . t 

A I tried to mr.ke them understand in the few English words I 
knew that we also were soldicrB, 

469 



Q, V/oll, have him repeat as nearly cs ho oan in the English 

language \7hat he said? 
A Wc ore Italian soldier; please make stop* 

Ci Wg ore Italian soldier; please malco stop? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Was that about all you said? 

A Yes. I made gestures; I had them understand that I vvanted 
to stop, 

Q, What, if anything, happened after you said that and made 

those gestures? 
A I was forced to throw myself under a tab]£ because other 

Negroes arrived. I don't kno^:; how mrny; it might have been 

seven or o ight, 

Ci, Where was this table? 

A Almost touching the wall of the center, • 

Q Indicate about whore the table was? 
A (Witness indicates.) 

Q, All right. Wo will mark that "table", Major, if you agree to 
it. 

Defense: It is quite all right. 

Interpreter: He wishes me to convoy to the Colonel that i 
the table was not right up against tMe wall booauso ttere is Q 
oommnnding officer's chair in between tho table cjid the wall. 

(, All right. I will mark that "chair." Did you leave there 
before the rar.tter was over or did you stay there in room Y? 

A After the seven or eight soldiers that were in room Y, some 
of Tiihich might have gone out of the doorway, some of which 
mi^t hr>ve jumped out of the window — I am not exactly sure 
because I couldn't see them — out of c\3r iosity I went into 
room X because it seemed at that moment that there were no 
more Negroes in that room and it seemed a little quieter than 
before. 

Q, Which room are you speaking of now? 
A X. 

Ci He went back into room X. Where did you go from room X? 
A I remained there because the military police had arrived. 

Q, All right. Now, did you know an Italian soldier by the name 

of Furlonelli? 
A Yes. 

Q, Did you or not see whether he sustained any injuries that 

ni^t? 
A Yes, he was hurt under his Isft eye. 

470 



C^ Did you sog tho not thr.t injured him? 
ii Ygs, I saxj — 

Q ( Interrupt ing) All right. Ho said yos. The rest of it Tvould 
be inndmissiblo. I V7ill ask him tho next question. What did 
you SCO? 

A 1 sav7 r- stone or briclc ooming from door A ^^/hioh hit J\irlQnclli 
vjho wr.s standing behind door\7ay D, 

Interpreter: Pardon me. That should be "in front of door- 
way D." 

A Tho door -^as not completely opnn. It v/as three quarters open 
or half \7 ay open. I v/r.s standing in tho pnrt of the doorway 
that T/as open tovjords the right and Furlanelli was in a 
position a little behind mo, I knov; that ho screamed and then 
I saT7 that he vjas hurt, 

Q, Whore was he hurt? 
A Under the left eye , 

Q, Was he or not bleeding? 
A Yes, he 'las « 

Law Member: Was he what? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Blooding, 

(„ Yes, hu ^7as, All right, bo seated. Have you ever been shown 
any photographs or Negro soldiers for the purpose of having 
you make idontif ioation of anyone you saw in thvj orderly room? 

A Yes. 

Ci Who shc^d you those photographs? 
A The Colonel. 

ti, Does he mean that I did? 

A Yes. . - 

Q, Did anyone else besides myself show him any photographs? 
A Yes. 

Q Toll him to look at Major Books, the Defense Counsel, Ask 

him if he hc^ ever seen him before? 
A Yes, 

Q, Ask him whether or not he ever aho^Tsd him any photographs? 
A Yos, 

(i Now, Qsk him whether he showed him one photograph or a 

number of photographs. 
A Mcjiy photographs, 

Q Did he seloot any photograph as being the soldier whom he 

saw in the orderly room that night? 
A Yes. 

471 



President: Don't you want to put your questions in the 
first person, for the sake of the reoord? 

Trial Judge iidvocato: I v?asn't conscious of the fact I 
hadn't. Thonk you for oalling it to w attention. 

(^, Whose photograph did you identify as being the person you 

saii7? 
A The soldier that I savj the first ni^ht in that doorway 

the re . 

C<, Was it or not the same soldier whom you identified to tho 

Court today? 
A Yes, tho same. 

Q, Now, did Ivlajor Becks show you one photograph or soveral 

photographs? 
A Several photographs, 

Q, Did he select from that number any photograph as representing 

the soldier you saw in the orderly room that night? 
A Yes. 

(« Did you or not select the photograph of tlie same person you 

identified today? 
A Yes. 

il State whether or no t you have ever been in Eastern Africa? 
A Yes. 

Q For how long? 

A He says it was ct onu time two months, but ask tho Colonel if 

ho means Central ^*frica or South Africa — North i»ftica or 

South .'Ifrica. 

(g Well, let's say South Africa first. 
A Yos, I have boon there, 

Q, For how long? 

A About two months, 

i^i Well, what partioulr.r work did you do in the Italion ^rmy; what 

was your assignment? 
A Air Transport, 

i, Air Transport, 

Trial Judge Advocate: Tho prosecution has no farther 
questions, if the Court please, 

CI/3SS-EXAMnTAT 10 N 
'questions by Defense: 

(v How long were you in the Italian Array, Pisoiottnno? 
A Ton years. 

472 



Q, Whore is your home? 
A GonoQ, 

.Li, Hot; much cduoation have you had? 

Intorpretor: I havo to comparo that v;ith hi^ school or 
not. 

A Finishod high school. 

Law MombGr: You agree T7ith that, Licutcacnt? 

Defense Interpreter: Yes, sir. 

Interpreter: Ho has no-j expl'\ined the difforont schools in 
Italy. Coramorcial course is s ix years; other courses is eight 
years. I would like to make a suggestion, hov; many years he 
went to school, hecauso I can't tell whether it was high school 
or not. 

Q iisk him what kind of education he has had. 
A Accounting. 

(^ Is that the commercial course of six years? 

A No, thu commercial course comprises eight yuors of study. 

ti Well, how many yecxs high school schooling did he have — 

six? 
A Seven ye co? s . _ ' 

ti Seven yorxs. All right. 

Law Member: Let's get that right. It obviousli'' isn't high 
school. Why don't you ask him how maiy years he wont to school. 

President: All together. 

Low Member: Yes, all together. 

Q, How many years did you go to school all together? 
A Thirteen years. 

Q How many years was it after you finished school before yoa 

entered the Arn^? 
A Two yocj7s later. I was tvjenty years old. 

<4 Well, you were in the Ethiopian Campaign, were you not? 
A No, 

Q, Weren't you in Ethiopia? 

A I was there, but I wasn't — I didn't have any combat there. 
I v/as with civil transportation. 

Q. You were in Ethiopia at the time of the Ethiopian War — the 

War between Ethiopia and Italy? 
A No, it had already finishod. 

47 3 




v^ V/cll, T7lic.t yorx V7QS it you Tjoro in Ethiopia? 
A In 1936. 

Q, In 1936. iuid did you soo thousands of colored people at that 
timo during the period you \7oro in Ethiopia? ,, , . ., 

A Thousands, no, hut I have soon some. I have talkod to tnom, 
boon together '.lith thorn. 

Q, Well, the native Ethiopimis blaok, a Negro, isn't ho? 
A Yes, they are Negroes. 

Q, No\7, vjhat parts of Africa have you been statioied in? 
A In Northern ^ifrioa, 

ti Libya? 
A Yos, sir. 

Ci Did you see lots of Negroes vjhilc you i.7orc in Libya? 
A Ygs, It is populous VJith Negroes, 

(; Now, V7hat port of South i»frioa were you in? 
A Eritrea. 

C4 Well, there are lots of Negroes in Eritrea, are there not? 
A Naturally, yes. 

q, Prior to the night of ^*ugust 14, Pisoiottano, did you have 

any fear of Negroes? 
A Me fear; why? 

Law Member: No, ask him if prior — if on the night of 
August 14 ho had any particular fear of Negroes. 

Defense: Prior, I said. 

Law Member: Prior. 

A No. :' 

Q, Was there anyone down in your company that liad any fear of 

Ne/'^roes? 
A I believe no, because Negroes ore jvist as equal as otti^r 

people and there should be no reason why one person should 

be afraid of the other. 

Q And you have personally never bad any previous experience 

that caused you to fear Negroes? 
A Never , 

^ Well, was there anyone there in your barracks that because 
of previous experience had any fear of ^^egroes? 

A I can't tell th."t because I don't know the other person s 
individual feeling. 

o Now, on the evening of i^ugust 14 as you were returning from 
town, at the time you saw the group of colored soldiers on 

474 



Lauton Road, T;as it light or v;cs it dork? 
A It ;7Qs night time . 

Q, Let's go over hero to the map a momont. Noy , titLII you 
indicate on Prosooution Esdtiibit 2 tho approxiraatc place 
whure you first sav; tho colored soldiers as you were return- 
ing from town to your tarracks? 

A Approximately where this writing here is(indicating) . 
Maybe a little up further or maybe a little lower. 

Q, Well, that is where "2X" appears on Prosecution Exhibit 2, 
with the initials -- ■ 

Law Member: Well, just in front of the word "Lawton". 

Q, With the initials — with "XI" with "GB". Now, that's the 
point where you originally first saw the colored soldiers? 
A This nif^it, yes. 

Ci iind where were you at tho tirao you first saw the colored 

soldiers? 
M Here wo mot them, on thu loft side of tho road (indicating). 

The other mon were coming up tho right side of the road. 

It V/ell, indicate the same place again. (To interpreter) Make 
him understand. Now, Pisciottano, I want to know -;4iere you 
were on the road at tho time you first saw the colored 
soldiers even though they were some distance from you? 

A I met thorn there on the street, 

Q Well, when you first saw them they wore some distance away 

from you, weren't they? 
A No, I noticed them first when they wore just passing by me; 

r jght next to us , 

i^ I see. Well, you heard one of the men yell "Hoy, Italian"? 
A No, he didn't say that "Hey". Ho expressed himself with 
vulgar words. 

Ci He never said, "Hey, Italian"? 

A Later it seoias to mo that he said it, later iiihon he called 
Belle. 

^ Did you see tho nan that used the vul'^ar words? 
A It came out of one of the group but I did not notice who 

said it. 

:], Well, did you see tho man that Bella struck? 

A No, I just saw tho form of the man, as I was standing about 

six or seven yards, and I didn't notice since I had intentions 

of going to my barracks and goinf; to bod. 

^ What did thr t mr.n look like? 
A I can't say. 



i, Well, What did any of the — 

i From the aspect of it, your height. 

475 



Interpreter: He was motioning to rac, 

Q Well, can you toll us what any of ttiat group of men looked 

like? 
A No, because thw other two didn't stop; they continued ahead, 

(^ Did you see the man that you have identified here today in 

that group? 
A No. 

Q, ^*s you colli; do'.7n Lavjton Road hctv/ocn Virginia x. venue and 

Wyoming Avenue are there any street li^ts? 
A Yes, there ore. 

Q, No77, on the night of the riot sho\7 the Court wtere they arc 

located. 
A There is one that illuminates the racBS hall. 

Q Where is it located? 

A The yhole moss hall vjas illuminated. 

(s, You mean there Tjere lights on inside the mess hall? 

A Only in that part of the kitchen \)hevo men T7ero working. 

Q, Is that the back pr.rt of the mess hall near Y/yoming Avenue? 
L It seems to be there is an entrance here with a stairs that 
is not indicated on this map (indicating). 

(<, He is indicating the Wyoming iivonuo porch of the mess hall. 
Well, now, I v/ant an answer to the question I asked. 7/as 
the porch that \7as lighted, the porch of the mess hall, 
situated closest to VTyoming Avenue? 

A Yes. 

Q, And there weren't lights in the other part of the moss hall? 
A It seems to me there was not. 

Q, There were? 
A Were not, 

^ iilong Lawton Road between Virginia i^venue and Wyoming i» venue 

were there any street lights on poles? 
A Yes. 

Q, Show the Court where they were located on the night of August 
14. 

President: Stand to the side, please, so we can see. 

A There was one surely here at this angle (indicating). 

(^ All right. Point there and we will mark it. 
A (V/itness points) . 

k^ Well, let's mark that "AP" with a circle around it. 

476 



Interpreter 1 He s&ys it is on the sidewalk, 

Q, All right, you tell him to show me where. 

Interpreter: He is motioning you oan see where. From here 
to here ( indicating) . On the sidewalk, he says. 

Law Member: On the sidewalk at the intersection of Lawton 
and Virginia. 

Q Fell, explain to him that these lines are the sides of the 

road. Now, ask him to indicate where it was? 
A Just the sidewalk you want to know? 

Q, Well, explain to him that the sides of the load ere these 
two heavy lines here. The sidewalks are not shown, 

A Then the street lamp is not here in the middle of the street, 
because I have never seen a light in the middle of the 
street. It must be situated at the angle here (indicating). 

<i Indicate approximately v/here, 

A That point there with the black dot in it. 

Q All right. I will draw a line over that black dot, if the • 
Court please, and with a circle around it and "AP". Now, 
were there any other street lights on the night of August 
. 14 between Virginia jivenue and Wyoming Avenue? 

A It seems to me that there wasn't, 

Q, There wasn't? 

A There mi^ht have been lights here near the mess hall 

(indicating); but lights, I don't believe that I saw any 

lights on poles. 

Q Well, were there any other kinds of outside overhead lights? 
A From here to here (indicating) I didn't see any other lights 
but that except from the mess hall, 

Q From Virginia Avenue to V/yoming ii venue he didn't see any 

other light. Now at the time you saw this colored soldier 
that you said had something in his hand, which v;ey was he 
facing? 

A Towards this street here ( indie at in(>; ) . His face was towards 
the barracks there. 

Q. He was facing, on Lawton Road, facing towards Wyoming Avenue. 

Defense: Is that agreeable? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes. 

Q, And how were you standing? Were you up hill or down hill 

from him? 
A When he stopped Belle I was — 

Q, (Interrupting) Now I want to ask him at the time he saw 

477 



soitEthing bright in this colored soldier's hand; ask him 
where he was and how he was standing? 
A I was about here (indicating); five or six or seven steps 
distant. 

^ You were five to seven steps downhill from the colored 

soldier? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q And in what direction were you facing? 

A I turned around for a moment and faced in this direction 
(indicating) . 

ft Facing up Lawton Road towards Virginia avenue. Now, at the 
time you saw the man you have identified here today approxi- 
mately where were you inside the orderly building? 

A I was right at that point there (indicating). 

Q I will mark that "AP 1". Now, was door D open, shut, or 

part way open or shut at that time? 
A I had opened it myself with my hand. It was in almost the 

same position as it is shown there (indicating). 

Q, Almost in the same position as shown on Prosecution Exhibit 
3. 

Law Member: Just one thing I want to make sure of. 
Haven't you some other "AG 1** on thct map before? 

Defense: I haven't used this initi:.! before. I am using 
the initials in each instance. 

Law Member: This is "AP"? 

Defense: ^AV" , yes. 

Q, Now, where was the men you identified here today at the time 

you first saw him? 
A That point there (indicating). 

Q Well, let's mark thet "AP 2". Now, you come over here and 
pace off — start bythe table here — pace off the approxi- 
mate distance he was from you at the time you saw him, 

A (Witness paces off distance as requested.) 

The Defense Counsel then measured the distance with a ruler. 

Defense: The record may show that the distance indicated 
by the witness is twenty- three feet approximately. 

Law Member: Twenty-three? 

Defense: I said approximately. It ius actually twenty- 
three feet, 

ft Now, the man that you Rave identified hero today, when you 

478 



saw him in door A thc.t was the first timo that you had seen 
him that night? 
A Yes. 

Q How was he dressed at that time? 
A He had fatigues. 

Q You are sure of that? 

A I believe so. Positively sure of that I can't he, but I 

saw his clothes and they wore the color of fatigues clothes. 

ft Was he armed? 
A No. 

Q, He had no stick, or knife, or gun? 

A Perhaps he had it but I didn't see it. 

ft Well, did you see his hands? 
A No. 

ft You were looking at him; had a full length view of him? 
A Yes, I could see him all, 

ft You didn't sot; any stick? 
A I didn't see his hands, 

ft Did you see any stick that he had that evening? 
A No. 

ft Did you see any knife that ho had that evening? 
A No, I didn't see any. 

ft You didn't see him strike Gnybo(f^y? 
A No. 

ft You didn't see him damage any ptroporty? 

A No. 

ft Do you remember talking to me down at Mt, Rainier a week or 

so ago? 
A Yes, 

ft Captain Noyd was with me? 
A Yes. 

ft And Lt. Gagliardo was doing the interpreting? 
A Yes. 

ft Didn't I ask you at that time if the man was armed and you 
said definitely that he was not crmed? 

Law Member: Well, he definitely said that today. 

Defense: If the Court is satisfied, I am. 

Law Member: Yes, that was his first answer, he was not armed. 

479 



Q And I asked you how ho was dressed, didn't I, and you said 

you didn't romembGr? 
A The same thing that I said now. 

Q All right . 

Defense: That is all. 

A The same thing thot I said, now, and I don't know with 

precision how ho was dressed. I belie vu the. t he vias dressed 
in fatigues. 

President: Is the defense through? 

Defense: I am asking; that that part of his answer be 
stricken, that he believes he was dressed in fatigues. He said 
he don't kno-w. 

Law Member: as I recall, he said, "Ht; hud fatigues on, I 
believe; they wore the color of fatigues, but I am not sure they 
were fatigues," 

Defense: Yes, but I asked again if ho didn't testify a 
certain way at Mt. Rainier, I asked him if ho didn't say at 
that time he didn't romomber how he vvas dressed, and he says 
that is the same way he said now. 

Law Member: Major, suppose you ask him the question this 
way. At Mt. Rainier did I ask you this question and did you 
make this answer. Will you do that, and lot's got it settled. 

Defense: (To reporter) Will you re-'^d to the Interpreter 
the question the Lr.w Member wants me to ask. 

Law Member: Of course, you know that question is not 
in complete form. You evidently have some testimony* If you 
want to contradict this witness, there is one \7Qy of doing it. 
At Mt, Rainier did I ask you this question and did you make 
this answer, and then read that question and answer. 

Q At Mt . Rainier did I ask you how this man was dressed? 
A Tell them, hoping they don't take offense, that the human 
brain is not c calculator. 

Law Member: Noti/, listen. I am not interested in that. 
Coxinsel has asked this witness if at Mt, Rainier he was asked 
a certain question. Now, the answer is yes or no. 

A I don't exactly remember whether he asked me this question 
that I answered. I might have. 

Q Didn't you tell me at Mt. Rainier that you didn't remember 

how he was dressed? 
A It could have been that I said that, yes. 

Defense: That is all. 

480 



President: Are you all through? 

Defense: Yes, 

Trial Judge Advocate: Any questions by the Court? 

President: Any questions by the prosecution? 

Trial Judge Advocate: No, that's quite all right; go 
ahead. 

President: There appear to be none. The V7itness is 
excused. 

Trial Judge Advocate: The Court has no questions? 

President: The Court has no questions. 

There being no further questions, the TsrLtness was excused 
and withdrew. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I have Sergeant Farr and Corporal 
Haskell here at Counsel's request, and I think he wanted to 
ask them a question or two. 

Defense: You were to talk with them first to see if we 
would stipulate. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I will tell you what we will do. 
If you will step out with me we will ask them the facts. I 
don't think you will stipulate after talking to them. May we 
be excused for that purpose? 

Law Member: Surely. 

The Trial Judge Advocate and Defense Counsel thereupon 
retired from the court room, and upon their return the following 
further proceedings occurred: 

President: Is the prosecution ready? 

Trial Judge advocate: Yes, sir. 

President: Is the defense ready? 

Defense: Yes. 

President: The Court will come to order. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record show each accused 
is present and all members of the Court, and that the personnel 
representing the accused and the personnel representing the 
prosecution are also present. 

The interpreter and reporter were also present. 

481 



Sergeant Grant Farr, SOU 3983, 28tli Italian Quartermaster 
Service Company, a ^7itness for the prosecution, vias recalled 
and testified further as follows: 

President: Will you remind the 7;itness he is still under 
oath? 

Trial Judge Jidvooate: You ere reminded you are still under 
oath. Sergeant Farr. 

The Witness: Yes, sir. 

RECROSS iXaI.lIl\ATION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Sergeant, to the best of your recollection on the night of 
August 14 736 re there any of the lights in room Y that were 
turned on? 

A That is the — 

q, (Interrupting) That is the room the Captain's office is 

loooted in. 
A I don't renEmber any lights on in thet room, no, sir. 

Q, And I believe you previously testified that in room Z when 
you arose and got out of bed that you turned on a light over 
your bed? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Do you knov; T;hat the v/attagc of thnt lig;ht \io.s? 
A I don't know exactly. It v/as approxiroately a 50 watt bulb, 
sir. 

(i Approximately 50 watts. You are not sure of that? 
A No, sir. 

Q Well, you might indicate to the Court, if you will, tho 

approximately diameter of the bulb? 
A I \TOUld say it was a bulb that large ( indicatijng) . 

The Defense Counsel then measured with a rule the distance 
indicated by the witness. 

Q, He is indicating throe inches in diameter. Prior to your 

turning thrt light on that room had been in darkness? 
A Yes. 

Q, You yourself ha-'rc no personcl knowledge of tho size of the 

bulbs in rooms R and X, do you? 
A No, sir. 

Defense: That is all. 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

482 



Q. Now, tlie light you have just described to the Court In 
room Z, the bedroom light, did It have any reflector 
over It? 

A No, sir. 

Q Well, how vi^ac It affixed and describe It, 

A It was merely screwed into a ball socket on the wall. 

President: That is in room Z. 

Trial Judge Advocates That is in room Z. 

Defense: Did vi/e T.:revlously indicate the wall? 

Law Member: No, I don't think we indicated v/hich bed 
was his. 

Defense: (To v/itness) You might shov/ the Court, 

The Witness: This is my bed here (indicating). 

Trial Judge Advocate: Now, you have pointed to a bed 
next — 

Law Member: (Interrupting) Next to the partition of 
room Y, 

Trial Judge Advocate; Yes, next to tiie partition of 
room Y, 

The Witness: The bulb was affixed to this v/all adjacent 
to door E, 

Defense: Well, I will mark it on there. I will write 
the words "light''. 

Q Was there another light in room Z besides the bedroom 

light -- another fixture? 
A Yes, sir, there was. 

Q, And about how largo a bulb or what vfatt light was that? 
A It was the same size bulb that was used in the socket 

in room X and in room R. A large bulb; possibly 150 to 

200 watt. 

Q Was it a fixture that was attached to the ceiling or where? 
A No, sir, it was attached to a socket, v/hich in turn v/as 
attached to a cord hanging approximately three feet, 

Q Prom where? 

A Prom the roof fixture. 

Q And did it have a reflector over it or not? 
A No, sir. 

Q Now, do you know \tiether or not that light was on that 

night? 
A No, sir, I do not, 

483 



4 

Q But I believe you testified that you turned on the 

bedroom light? J 

A Yes, sir. ^. •. j 

Q In room Z. Nov/, how many lights were tliere in room X? 

A In rooir. X there were two lights, i 

Q A.nd were the bulbs the same size? 

Lav/ Member: It is already in the record. 

Defense} I think it is. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I wanted to get the size, 

Q Were they the same size? 
A Yes, sir, they were. 

Q And you say they were approximately of v/hat watt? 

A 150 or 200 watt. i 

Q Now, were there any lights in room R? 
A Yes, sii', there was, 

Q How many? 

A There were two. 

Q By the way, were those lights on too in room X or off? 
A Yes, sir, they were on. 

Q Both of them? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, how many lights were there in room R? 
A There were two lights in room R, 

Q And what size globe or what v/att? 
A 150 to 200 watt. 

Q Were those lights on or off? 
A They were on, sir, 

Q When you say they were on, do you mean during the 
entire time you were in the orderly room that night 
or a part of the time? 

A I mean every time I saw them they v/ere on, sir, 

Q Is that also true with respect to room X? 
A Yes, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all. 

Defense: That is all. 

President: Any questions by the Court? There appear 
to be none. The witness may be excused. 



484 



r 



There being no further questions, the witness was I 

excused and v/ithdrew, -i 

T-5 Edward S. Haskell> SCU 3983, 28th Italian 
Quartermaster Service Company, a witness for the prosecu- 
tion, was recalled and testified further, as follows: 

Trial Judge Advocate: You are reminded you are still 
under oath. Corporal Haskell* 

The witness: Yes, sir* 

REGROSS-EXAMINATION 
Questions by Defense: 

Q Corporal Haskell, during the night of August 14, during 1 

the fracas, did you see Sergeant Todde turn off any j 

light in room Z? J 

A Yes, sir . 

Q V/hat light was that? 

A It was the light that was hanging from the ceiling in 
the center of the room. 

Q That was the overhead light at that time? 
A Yes, sire 

Q To your knowledge were the light, or lights, in room Y 

ever lll\iminated at any time that night? 
A After the Incident was over they were turned on, sir. 

Q After the incident was over? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q You mean that was after the military police had arrived? 
A That is correct, sir, 

Q Now, about when was it that you saw Sergeant Todde turn 
off the overhead light in room Z with reference to the 
time that the first Negro soldiers came into the building? 

A I would say it was almost immediately, sir. 



Q You mean almost Immediately after they came into the -- 
A Yes, sir, they came in door B and the lights v/ere turned 
off about that time , 

Q Are you sure about door B? You better look at the map, 
A Excuse me, sir. It is door D. 

Q Door D? 

A Yes, sir. That would be^ I would -ja-r, about 11; 35 or 
11:40, sir. 

Q But Sergeant Todde turned off the overhead light in room 
Z about the same time the first colored soldiers came 
In through door D. 



485 



A Yes, slri 

Q Now, I understand that you are familiar with the lights 

that were on In rooms X and R^ 
A Yes, sir* 

Q Are you familiar v/lth the size of the light globes in 

those two rooms? 
A Ye s , s Ir . 

Q, And what size light globes were they? 
A They were 200 watts, sir, 

Q Tto in each room? 

A That is correct, sir, 

Q, Without reflectors? 
A Correct. 

Defense: That is all the questions I have, 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q How do you know that they were 200 watt globes? 
A I drew the globes from the Quartennaster, sir, and 
put them in myself. 

Q You drew the globes and put them in yourself? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Now, so far as you know was the bed light in room Z 

turned off that night? 
A I couldn't say, sir. 

Defense: He has never testified to his knowledge 
that it was on , 

Trial Judge Advocate; He doesn't even knov/ that it 
was off. 

Defense: I don't think your question is fair for 
redirect examination. 

Trial Judge Advocate: V/ell, there is testimony it was 
turned on and I am asking v/hether he Imew it was turned off. 

Defense: Sergeant Todde already testified he turned 
it off. . 

Trial Judge Advocate: No, he did not. He testified 
he sawSergeant Todde turn off the overhead light. 

Lav; Member: It is just a simple question to the witness 
whether he ever saw that light turned off. 



486 



Defense: Isn't it fair for me to knovj or ask the witness 
If he ever saw it on before he asked him if he turned it off. 

Law Member: Well, you can do that as soon as the Colonel 
gets through. 

Defense: I am objecting to the form of the question in 
the absence of any showing that the light was ever on. 

Lav; Member: On that ground it is overruled, 

Q Did you or not see the bed light in room Z turned off 

that night? 
A I did not see it turned off, no sir. 

Law Member: Did you ever see it turned on? 

The Witness: Yes, sir. 

Law Member: V/ho turned it on? 

The f/ltness: Sergeant Parr* 

Law Member: V/as it on all the time during this Incident? 

The V/ltness: I couldn't say, sir, 

Q All right. Not, state whether or not both lights in 
room X v>fere on the entire time you were in the orderly 
room that night after the Negro soldiers entered? 

A Yes, sir, both lights were on, 

Q State v/hether or not both lights in room R v;ere on the 
entire time you were in the orderly room that night 
after the Negro soldiers entered? 

A Yes, sir, both lights v/ere on. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I believe that is all. 

Defense; No further questions. 

President: Any questions by the Court? There appears 
to be none. The witness may be excused. 

There being no further questions, the witness was 
excused and v/lthdrew. 

President: The Law Member has a matter to take up at 
the present time. 

Law Member: At a conference of the Court at the last 
recess, the Court feels if the Defense Counsel would still 
like the Court to examine the premises, and I believe you 
said to rae , Major, not only in the daytime to see the 
general surroundings but also at night -- 



487 



Defense: I particularly want you to see it at night, 
but I think to orient yourself you should see it in the 
daylight. 

Law Member: I believe that is so. -- (continuing) and 
if proper plans can be made we will visit the locus after 
lionch tomorrow at 1:30, We also feel that we should at 
least drive by the bus stop and by the theater, which 
places have been mentioned in the testimony. Do you agree 
with that. Major? 

Defense: Yes, I think it would be a very excellent 
sxoggestion. Does the Court want the Trial J\idge Advocate 
and Defense Counsel to accompany them? 

Law Member: Definitely, and the ajcused must accompany 
us, and there definitely must be no remarks made in the 
hearing of the Court at the time this inspection is being 
made, because any such remarks or any testimony being taken 
is highly condemned by the Judge Advocate General, Colonel, 
will you make some arrangements that that inspection can 
be made tomorrow after lunch? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, sir, I will do my very best, 
I am very eager for the Court to visit the premises but 
I am still inclined to think it is a little premature, I 
have made arrangements to bring the Post Engineer over here j 

either tomorrov/ or Monday, I thought perhaps after some 
expression by him the Court might be in a better position to 
then view the premises. 

Law Member: V/ell, I think after v;e have seen the prem- 
ises then the e3q)lanation by the Engineer might be all the 
more clarifying to us. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I would like for the Court to 
know this. Frankly, the Court v/ill be able to see tomorrow 
only a part of the premises that will be involved in this 
case. There are other premises that v;ill have to be viewed 
that cannot be viewed tomorrow because there is no testimony 
yet as to where that v/as , 

Law Member: That's right. 

Trial Judge Advocate: So I am just wondering if the 
Court isn't sort of wishing on itself tv/o trips that could 
well be handled in just one trip. 

Law Member: V/ell, there will have to be tv/o, because 
we certainly have to visit the area in the nighttime. 

Trial Judge Advocate; Yes, sir, but you will not be 
able to see what you want to see at this other situs at 
nighttime. 

Law Member: We will have to go tliere in the daytime, 
and Vie can't go now. Ttiat is understood. But some of the 
members of the Court very strongly feel that at this time it 

488 



should comply with Major Beeks' request and get some idea 
of the locations 4 

Trial Judge Advocate: I trust the Court understands 
the only reason I mentioned that, that I thought in fair- 
ness to the Court I should advise that there will be re- 
quired another trip in the day timeo 

Law Member: If there is, we will have to take it. 

Defense: I want to say this. If the Court decides, 
does decide to visit the other premises you talk about, 
they will probably want to wear G.I. shoes down there. 
It is kind of muddy down there. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I am sure the Court will take 
care of itself as to that. 

Law Member: V/e want to see jiist the position of the 
bus stop, the position of the theater, and then the area. 

President: There is only one thing about that bus 
stop and theater. There may be more than one bus stop and 
theater in the post. It is going to make it rather difficult. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Frankly, I couldn't tell where 
that bus stop is or which one is involved. 

Defense: I think it has been testified it is dovn by the 
guard house. I think that is in the record. 

President: I don't knov/ of anything in the record. 

Law Member: No, just said it wasn't on the map. 

Defense: This one witness didn't today, but there is 
previous testimony about the bus stop. 

President: Didn't say where it was; just said the bus 
stop. 

Defense: I am going to make this observation to the 
Court, I don't think it is necessary, and I think Colonel 
Jaworski doesn't think it is necessary, for all the accused 
to accompany us. It is quite an undertal-:ing and I am willing 
to stipulate they need not do so. 

Trial Judge Advocate: It may be waived, I think. 

Law Member: I don't think you cr.r,.-. 

Defense: It makes quits a transportation problem to 
take all the accused d.-.r, ., and I can see no need for it 
unless it is an absoiucc^ requirement. Of course, I think if 
you are going to take testimony down there, they would have 
to be there; but that Is not contemplated. 



489 



Law Member; No, you can't take testimony. But I still 
believe that the accused should go v;ith the Court, Counsel 
for the prosecution and the defense, unless something is 
shovm to me to make me change my opinion. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, I feel this, though. That 
even if it were normally required in the absence of any 
stipulation or a waiver, I still think it is a sort of a 
matter the defense is entitled to waive, and the accused, 
and I think if all of the accused themselves agree to it 
that the Court view the premises without their being there, 
I think we would be entirely safe, I think they could be 
asked and if they v/ere agreeable to it, I think it would 
then be safe. 

Law Member; Let me make a decision on that later. 

President; The Court will adjourn at this time to 
reconvene at 9; 00 tomorrow morning. 

The Court thereupon adjourned at 4:45 p.m., 24 November 
1944, to reconvene at 9;00 a.m., 25 November 1944, 



LEON JAWORSKI 
Lt, Col,, J.A.G.D. 
Trial Judge Advocate 



490 




Port Lawton Staging Area, 
Port Lawton, Washington, 
25 November 1944. 

The Court reconvened at 9:00 a.m., 25 November 1944, 

President: Is the prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Is the defense ready to proceed? 

Defense : Yes , 

President: The Court will come to order. 

A roll call vms then conducted by the Assistant Trial 
Judge Advocate of the accused, vrfao were seated in the 
court room. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record shov; that each 
accused is present, that all members of the court present 
at adjournment yesterday are present ttiis morning, the 
personnel representing the accused are present and the per- 
sonnel representing the prosecution are also present. 

The interpreter and reporter were also present. 

Corporal Major Vitorio Bellieni, 28th Italian Quarter- 
master Service Company, a witness for the prosecution, 
was sworn and testified through the interpreter, as follows: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q State your name; your full name, 
A Bellieni Vitorio. 

Q Ask him if it isn't the other way around? 
A Vitorio Bellieni. 

Trial Judge Advocate: B-e-1-l-i-e-n-i. 

Q And your grade. 
A Corporal Major. 

Q And your organization, 

A 28th Italian Quartermaster Service Company, 

Q And your station. 
A Mt, Rainier. 

Q Are you able to converse in the English language? 
A No, 



491 



Q Were you ever stationed at Port Lawton? 
A Yes. 

Q Were you staioned there during the month of August 19 44? 
A Yes. 

Q Do you recall the Incident on the night of August 14, 
1944, when sor.ie Negro soldiers entered the Italian area 
at Port Lawton? 

A Yes. 

Q What occurred that first called the matter to your atten- 
tion? 

A I was in my bunk sleeping. All at once I heard stones 
falling on the barracks and wlndov/s were being broken. 

Q And in what barracks did you stay? 
A 708 

Q After you saw the windov/s groken, what, if anything, 

did you do? 
A Jianped out of my bunk and then I Jumped out of the window. 

Q All right. Nov/, come over here to this plat, please. 
This Prosecution Exhibit 2 gives a plat of the Italian 
area. This is Lawton Road that runs into the area, and 
this is barracks 708 and this is barracks 709; and this 
is the orderly room; and here is the latrine (indicating 
on Prosecution Exiiibit 2). (To interpreter) Will you 
explain that to him. 

A Yes. 

Q All right. Now you say you jumped out of a window in 

barracks 708. Will you point to approximately where that 
window was from which you jumped. 

President: Give him a stick and let him stand away from 
the board. Nobody can see it, 

Q All right. Tell him to stand back a little bit, 
A (Witness indicates.) 

Q We will just draw a little square here and put the 
initials "VB", his initials. 

Law Member: That is the window of what? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prom v;hich he jumped, 

Q Now, do you know how many windov/s from the northeast 

corner of barracks 708; the number of windov/s from that 
corner you -- well, let me rephrase that. Hov/ many win- 
dows from the northeast corner of 708 was the particular 
window fron v/hich you jumped? 

A I dlan't know exactly, 

Q All right. Can you give us seme idea? 



492 



A I can't exactly say, but my idea is It v;as about the 
fourth or the fifth window, 

Q Can you or not be positive that it was not the first 

window? 
A I am sure of that, 

Q Can you or not be positive that it v;as not the second 

window? 
A I am sure it v/asn't the second » 

Q And I believe you testified your best estimate it was 

the fourth or fifth window, is that correct? 
A The fourth or the fifth, 

Q Now, after you jumped from that window -- 

President* Colonel Jaworski, we will take a two minute 
recess. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, surely, 

A short recess was then taken while the Law Member 
retired from the court room, and upon his return the follow- 
ing further proceedings occurred: 

President: The Court will come to order, 

Q After you jumped from the windov/ as you have told the 

Court; where dj.d you go? 
A I jumped from ths window. As soon as I jumped from 

the windov/ there was a Negro here (indicating), 

Q What was he; a Negro soldier or Negro civilian? 

A A Negro soldier with a grade of corporal here (Indicating) 

ic^ All right, what happened then? 

A Then this corporal gave a shout and all those others that 
were around here (indicating) -- 

Q Around vihere, na/«'? 

Defense: I don't think it showed in the record v/here 
he was pointing.. 

A They v/ere at bo th doors of the barracks . 

Q Both doors of barracks 708, 

Defense: I mean when he was pointing to the grade of 
corporal. I don't think it shows in the record he was point- 
ing to the head. 

Trial Judge Ad"cc?.T;'-3> I don't know v;hgther he pointed to 
the head in connection with that. 

Defense: I presume he meant the helmet. I don't know. 



493 



Interpreter: He saw the colored soldier had a grade 
of corporal and v;ent like this (indicating). 

Q Ask him where he saw this grade of corporal? 
A On his helmet. 

Q On his helmet. All right. Is it all right. Major? He 
pointed to where these soldiers, Negro soldiers, were 
around "barracks 708. He said at both doors of 708. 
Ask him to point again so Major Beeks may see, 

A They were hy the doors, here and here (indicating) , 

Q Of barracks 703. All right. You say this Corporal Negro 
soldier gave a shout. What happened after he gave the 
shout? 

A They all came around and met about here (indicating), 

Q Well, now, he pointed here (indicating). That is be- 
tween barracks 708 and 709, 

A And as I was going under barracks 709 they all 
approached to this spot (indicating) . 

Q, All right, point to this spot again. 
A (V/itness indicates.) 

Q All right, we will mark that with a "XX" and "VB" . 
A He says that is where 'ne went under the barracks and 

that is v/here the Negroes were, at that point, as he 

was going under the barracks, 

Q, Did anything happen as he was going under the barracks? 

A As I was attempting to go under the barracks I received 
blows; also there was an attempt to knife me. However, 
it just barely got me, just very little, because I 
jumped right under the barracks . 

Q Where were you struck? 
A In the small of tlis back. 

Q Was that the only place that you received a blow or did 

you receive blows at otherplaces? 
A No, that is the only place, right there, 

Q, Now, did you continue to stay under barracks 709 or 

did you go elsewhere? 
A I went into the orderly room, 

Q Went into the orderly room. Well, how did you leave 
underneath barracks 709? 

Interpreter: He is motioning how he was when he went 
over there. 

Q All right, V/e know how he got undey but now we want to 
know how he got oi;t from under. Well, at what point did 
he make his exit? 



494 



A (V/itness Indicates) , 

Q All right, we will put "XXX" and "VB". Prom there 

you say he v/ent into the orderly room, I want to call 
your attention now to Prosecution Exhibit 3, which is 
a plat of the orderly room, and this is the side door 
of the orderly room, and this is the front door of the 
orderly room, and these are the rooms, room R, room X, 
room Z, and room Y, which is sometimes referred to as 
a Captain's room, (To Interpreter) Will you explain 
that to him, 

A Yes, I understand, 

Q Which way did you enter the orderly room? 
A Door A, 

Q After entering door A v/hich way did you go? 
A Through door D (indicating), 

Q Did you or not enter room X? 
A Yes. 

Q Did you stay in room X or did you leave room X and go 

elsewhere? 
A I remained there for a little while because they were 

phoning from there . 

Q They were phoning from there. While you were in room 

X state whether or not any colored soldiers entered that 
room? 

A While I v/as there, no, 

Q All right. V/here did you go from room X? 
A Then I went to this room here, room Y, 

Q Was anybody else in room Y besides you? 
A There was somebody there but I don't know who it was, 
b eca\ise I came through here right up to the v/indow -- 

Q Wait a minute. Came tlirough doorv/ay C« 
A --(continuing) right up to the window to attempt to 
jump from the window. 

Q, The window in room Y. And did you jump from the window 

in room Y? 
A No. 

Q Why not? 

A I didn't jump because there was a Negro here (indicating) 

then I could hear and see a lot of other Negroes around 

here (indicating) , 

Q All right. He pointed to the Negroes here (indicating). 

That was in front of the v/indow of room Y on the outside? 
A Yes. 

Q And then he said there were other Negroes behind him. Now 
about how many other Negroes were there behind this one 
that you saw? 

495 



A I can't tell because of the confusion that I was in. 
The first one I saw was him; I didn't pay any atten- 
tion to the others, 

Q Did you or not get a good look at this one Negro 
soldier who was in front of the window of room Y? 

A Yes, because he was the very first one I saw and he 
remained well impressed with me because of the fact I 
knew he was the very first one standing there with a 
club In his hand, 

Q He was standing there with a club in his hand. Did you 
or not later identify this man at a show-up of a niomber 
of Negro soldiers? 

A Yes, at his camp, or his barracks, rather, 

Q, About how many Negro soldiers were present at this 

3 how -up? 
A Who knows. There were many, 

Q, At this show-up did you Identify only one Negro soldier 

or more than one? 
A One, 

Q Were you at any later date asked to make identification 

of this Negro soldier again? 
A Yes, 

Q Did you or not make identification of the same Negro 

soldier you had previously picked out? 
A Yes, 



Q State whether or not a few weeks ago you saw a photograph 

of this Negro soldier whom you identified? 
A Yes. 

Q, Will you state to the Court approximately how many photo- 
graphs were shown you at that time? 
A There were many but I don't know the number, 

Q, Did you or not select the photograph of the man whom you 

had identified at the show-up? 
A Yes, 

Q Was that or not a photograph of the man whom you saw 
standing in front of room Y with a club in his hand? 
A Yes, 

Q, Come with me and look at the accused who are seated here 
and tell the Court whether you can point to the man whom 
you saw standing in front of room Y on the occasion in 
question with a club in his hand. 

A (Witness points to one of the accused.) 

Q All right, walk up to him. Do you know his name? 
A No. 

Trial Judge Advocate: If the Court please -- 

496 



President: Vftiich man did he point to? You were 
standing In the way, - 

A (Witness points.) 

Law Member: Tl-ie fifth man in the front rov/. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, ' 

Law Member: Will that man v/ho has just been pointed 
to give his name . 

The individual indicated by the witness then arose 
and announced his name, as follows: V/allace A. Wooden, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Wallace A. Y/ooden, 

Q Now in order that the matter may be clear, did you or 

not jump from the v;indow of room Y? 
A No. 

Q After you failed to jump what did you do next? 
A I went back and I placed myself under the desk, 

Q Under the desk where?; 
A Here (indicating). 

Q In room Y? 
A Yes. 

Q Nov\r, about where was that desk; next to which wall 

of room Y? 
A (Witness indicates) . 

Q About here (indicating)? 
A Yes, 

Q And which v/ay did it go? (To interpreter) Tell him 

to describe about how it was standing, 
A The long v/ay this way (witness indicates) , 

Q Is that about right? ^ 

A Yes, 

Q V^e will nark that "desk". Did you leave your position 

from under that desk after that? 
A I went out frctn urider the desk after the military 

police had arrived. 

Defense: I didn't hear that answer, 

Q Went out from under that desk after the military police 
arrived. Do you knov; an Italian soldier by the name 
of Bigatti? 

A Yes. 



497 



Q Did you see him in the orderly roon that evening? 
A Yes, 

Q State whether or not you saw whether Blgatti v;as 

injured? 
A When I saw Blgatti he was lying here in this position 
(Indicating) . 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right, now, will you 
stipulate he pointed to ''XX AP"? 

A And he was unconscious -- 

Q (Interrupting) Just a rninute o Let Major Beeks see it. 

Defense: I v/ill stipulate, 

Q All righto 

A — (continuing) and he was unconscious, I was lying in 
such a position that my head was sticking out from the 
desk so that I could see both the window and door C. 

Q Now, while Bigatti v/as lying there at this point that 

you designated as "XX AP" what, if anything, did you see 

occur to Bigatti? 
A As soon as the Negroes entered, while Bigatti was laying 

there, these men begin kicking him on his chest and on 

his stomach. 

Q Did you receive any injuries for v/hich you received 

medical treatment? 
A I hurt my finger when I grabbed the window in order to 

jump. 

Q Tliat is the window of room Y? 

A As soon as I grabbed the window a blov; hit it, but I 
don't know what it was or what caused it. 

Q Was the window pane Intact or was it broken in room Y? 
A It was broken , 

Q All right. You may have a seat. Did you or not see any- 
one else in the orderly room who had received injuries 
on the occasion in question? 

A A captain , 

Q Captain who? 

A Captain Cellentani, 

Q, What did you observe with respect to Capte^in Cellentani 's 

condition? 
A I saw the Captain stretched out under the window and he 

wasn't moving a.n-j nora, 

Q Stretched out und^r what window of what room? 
A The window of the Captain's room, 

Q Room Y, So that the record may show. Defense Counsel nodded 



that was correct -- 

Defense t v;hat I Intended to say was correct. The 
Captain's roon Is room Y. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That Is what I say. All right. 

Q, You say you saw Captain Cellentanl stretched out on the 
floor. Did you observe whether or not there was any 
blood on him? 

A We all had a little bit of blood. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, that wasn't the question 
and I assume Counsel would not v/ant that answer to stand. 

Law Member: Strike it out, 

Q, The question was did you observe whether or not Captain 
Cellentanl had any blood on him? 

A The Captain, yes, he had blood on his face here (indi- 
cating), but I didn't know v/hether it was his ovm blood 
or not because I was also hurt, received a blow on the 
finger, and I was knifed in the back, and we were all 
one on top of the other in the confusion; so I couldn't 
tell whether it was his own blood or not. 

Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution has no further 
questions, if the Court please, 

CROSS EXAMINATION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Bellienl, hov\f old are you? 
A 29 

Q And where were you taken prisoner? 
A Cape Bon, Tunisia. 

Q Hov; many years had you been in the Italian Army prior to 

the time you were taken prisoner? 
A Seven, 

Q Were you in the campaign in Ethiopia? 
A Ethiopia, no, 

Q, Had you seen previous service in Africa? 
A Five years. 

Q Five years. And in what parts of Africa? 

A I was in Benghazi, Tobruck -- all of Africa I traveled. 

Q During that period of five years you saw many colored 

people, didn't you? 
A Yes, because I was among the Negroes, 

499 



Q Now, how many years did you go to school? 
A Five year Si 

Q And after you finished school what occupation did you 

follow? 
A Mechanics ; 

Q Wha t type of mechanics? 

A Automobile and motor mechanics. 

Q And what were your particular duties while you were in 
the Army; what type of service? 

Interpretert The literal translation is a shop on top 
of a car, 

Q Was that type of duty for the five years you were in 

the Italian Army? 
A. No. 

Q Well, give us the r^st of your experience? 
A I was a driver of a big machine. 

Q Did you ever serve guard duty at any time while you were 

in the Italian Array and on duty in Africa? 
A No. 

Q Now, during this evening that you were in the orderly 

room about how many colored soldiers did you observe all 
together during that evening inside of the orderly room? 

A I only saw one enter, the one that was striking Blgattl, 
When the military police came in later there was some 
among the military police but I don't know how many, 

Q Well, during the time that you were in room Y did you see 

any colored soldiers enter room Y? 
A No, not inside the Captain's room. 

Q You didn't ever see any colored soldiers come into room 
Y? 

A No. 

Q Now, while you v/ere in room Y you could see out of door 

C into room X, could you not? 
A The larger room on the outside, yes. 

Q And didn't you observe as you looked out into room X a 

number of colored soldiers? 
A No, I only saw the one that was striking Blgattl and 

that is all. 

Q Did you get a good look at him? 

A No, because I had to be at attention to see whether they 
would enter from the window here or the door. 

Q V/ell, under the conditions down there that prevailed 
that evening it was pretty difficult to recognize 
anyone, wasn't it? 

500 



A It was easy, but I had to pay attention to the v/indow 
and to the door to be sure that nobody came in fron 
the window, 

Q Well, that Is the point. You had to be on guard at all 
times to protect yourself and look in quite a number of 
directions so you never had an opportunity to focus 
your attention on one individual for any great length 
of time? 

A The only one whose face I saw well was the one v/ho was 
standing outside the window at the time I was about to 
tjump. He was the only one remained impressed with me, 
I didn't pay any attention to the others, 

Q Well, how far was this man from the window? 
A About three yards. 

Q Abcu t three yards. Hov; was he dressed? 

A I can't remember how he was dressed that night. 

Q Did he have anything on his head or not? 
A He had a he Ime t . 

Q Was there any markings on his helmet? 
A No. 

Q You are sure of that? 

A Fran the present, the way I saw him, I didn't see any marks, 

Q You didn't see any marks, (To interpreter) Have him come 
over here a minute, will you. Was -the club you saw this 
color, green, or this color, white? 

A I can't be sure what color the club was. 

Trial Judge Advocate; This color or this color doesn't 
mean very much. 

Defense: I said indicating green and then I said indicat- 
ing white, I don't know whether you heard it or not. 

Q The soldier you saw that evening, did he have a mustache? 
A Yes. 

Q, He had a mustache. You are positive of that? 
A Yes. 

Q And as you looked out that window a distance of nine feet 

you could tell whether nr not that soldier had a mustache? 
A And how. The light was on and how you could see it, 

Q, The light was good enough that you could see a mustache 
but you couldn't tell whether a club he had was green or 
white, is that correct? 

A I didn't look at the club to see how it was made, but I 
looked at his face well. 

Defense: That is all, 

501 



Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution has no further 
questions . 

President: Any questions by members of the Court? 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 

Questions by Lt. Colonel Stecher; 

Q At one point, at the time just prior to jiimping out of 
the windov/, you mentioned there were colored soldiers at 
both doors. What do you mean by both doors of building 709? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I believe that was 708, 

Q All right. 708. That's right. 

A That the Negroes were around that side there, 

Q You said both doors. How many doors are in the barracks? 
A Two . 

President: Vi^ill you have him point on the map, the chart, 
where the doors are on the barracks. 

The Witness: (The witness indicates as requested). 

President: Indicating both ends of the barracks, 

Q There are no doors in the sides? 
A No, there are only those twD , 

President: Any further questions? 

Questions by Captain Atkinson; 

Q He said the Corporal, the Negro Corporal , had the grade 
on his helmet before. 

Law Member: A different Corporal; at different times. 
The Corporal v/ho came around 708 had chevrons on his helmet. 
He didn't say the Corporal outside the window had the chevrons. 

President; Does that answer your question? 

Captain Atkinson: Yes, sir. 

President: Any ftirther questions? 

Questions by Lt, Colonel Stecher: 

Q When you were in room Y was there any other desk or table 
in that room? 

A I am sure that there was a desk but I didn't notice any- 
thing else. 

Interpreter: By that he means, in Italian -- it is an 



502 



expression -- he did not pay attention to whether there was 
anything or not; that he didn't notice through his eyes. 

President: If there are no further questions by the 
Court, the witness will be excused. 

There being no further questions, the witness was excused 
and withdrew. 

Private Attlllo Vencoto, 28th Italian Quartermaster Service 
Company, a witness for the prosecution, was then svi?orn and 
testified through the interpreter, as follows: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate; ^ 

Q State your name, 
A Vencoto Attillio. 

Q Your first name is Attillo and your last name Vencoto? 
A Attlllo Vencoto, 

Law Member: How do you spell that? 

Trial Judge Advocate: A-t-t-i-1-l-o is his given name. 

Q And v/hat is your grade? 
A Private, 

Q And your organization? 

A 28th Italian Quartermaster Service Company, 

Q And your station? 
A Mt, Rainier. 

Q Do you speak the English language? 
A No 

Q Were you ever stationed at Port Lawton, Washington? 
A Yes, at Port Lawton, 

Q Were you there during the month of August 1944? 
A Yes, 

Q How old are you? 
A 35. 

Q Do you recall the incident when on August 14, 19i4, some 

Negro soldiers entered the Italian area at Port Lawton? 
A I remember well. 

Q Where were you that night? 
A I was in my bunk asleep o 



503 



Q In what barracks? 
A 708, 

Q What first attracted your attention to this occurrence? 
A I heard stones being thrown at the barracks and windows 
falling out. 

Q What, If anything, did you do when you heard that? 

A As soon as I heard that we were being attacked I Immed- 
iately jumped up from ray bed. I was in my underwear, my 
shorts and my undershirt, I went outside in order to 
save myself. I could see there was nothing else to do 
inside the barracks. 

Q All right. After you went outside the barracks what, if 

anything did you do? 
A Right dov/n from the two steps I felt a blow in my left leg, 

Q After you received this blow, what, if anything, did you do? 
A I saw myself completely surrounded there, so I went to save 
myself in the next barracks, which is 709, 

Q All right. After you entered barracks 709 did you hear any- 
thing with respect to an attack on that barracks? 
A Yes, 

Q Now, tell us what that was? 

A As soon as I entered 709 I was there but a moment and I 
heard a crashing of window glass, I ran outside, 

Q Now, just a minute. H e said he ran outside? 
A I ran outside. 

Q Let's stop there a second. I will ask him a question. Now 
After you ran outside from barracks 709 v/hat, if anything, 
happened next? 

A Running dovm the road which goes to the picnic grounds, as 
I was running down, I had a certain point and I found ray- 
self surrounded again. So I turned around to find another 
means of escape, 

Q, Then what happened? 

A When I found myself on this side of the church I found 
myself confronted with three of them. 

Q, All right. After you found yourself confronted with three 

of them, who do you mean by three of them? 
A Three Negroes, three men. 

Defense: May I ask at this time if the church is shown? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, the little chapel is shown 
right here (indicating on Prosecution Exhibit 2). Here is 
the recreation hall and this is the chapel. May I mark it? 

Defense: Yes. It isn't a church, it is a little outdoor 



504 



affair, as I understand. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, it is their church where 
they say their prayers, 

^ All right. You saw three Negroes, three men. Now, 

were those Negro soldiers or civilians? 
A Soldiers. They were dressed in fatigues. 

Q V/hat, if anything, happened to you then? 

A At that point there, on this side of the church (indica- 
ting), I tried to find a means of escape but I couldn't, 
and they grabbed me and threwme dowi . 

Q Now, when they threw you down describe -- 

Defense: May I interrupt. He said on this side of the 
church. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, I am going to have him up 
There to point , 

Defense: All right. 

Q Have him tell his story and then I will have him point 

it out, Nov/, tell the Court in detail how you were thrown 
and in what manner you were thrown so that the Court 
may know what you have reference to when you say you 
were thrown down. 

A These three grabbed me around the waist, 

Q These three grabbed hira around the waist, is that what 

he said? 
A. 1 can't remember exactly where they grabbed me. They 

Just grabbed me and threw me down, 

Q Now, when they threv/ you dov/n were you throvm on level 

ground, or was it an embankment? 
A No, there is broken wood on the ground, twigs and things 

of that nature on the ground, 

Q How far did you drop when you were thrown? 
A About twelve yards before I stopped. 

Q About twelve yards before you stopped. State whether or 

not a part of that distance you v/ere rolling? 
A Yes, I was rolling down, 

Q About what distance did you fall when you v;ere thrown 

before you started rolling? 
A I started rolling right away, 

Q After you hit the ground? 

A Yes, I started down. Yes, because the ground is soft 
there. 



505 



Q All right. Now, how far did you drop before you hit 

the ground? 
A About a yard or a yard and a half, 

Q Now, I vmnt you to give the Court an idea just exactly 
what the ground is like at the point where you were 
thrown dov/n, and come over here to this map. Now, this 
is Prosecution Exhibit 3, which is a plat that gives 
the Italian area. Here is barracks 708, 709 and the 
orderly room, 713, and here is the recreation hall, 731, 
and here is the chapel. (To interpreter) Will you tell 
him that , please. 

Interpreter: I explained, 

Q, All right. Now, stand off to the side, please, so that 
you can point. With respect to where this little chapel 
is — tell me about that chapel first, V/hat v;as that 
building marked chapel used for by you Italian soldiers? 

A It was our church. 

Q It was your church. All right. Nov/, vdth respect to 
where that chapel or that church is, where did these 
Negro soldiers grab you? 

A About there (indicating), 

Q All right. We will mark that with an "X}C" and "AV", 
Those are his initials, aren't they. 

Defense: That's right. 

Q All right. About how far from the chapel v;as it when 

they grabbed you? 
A Prom about fifteen to seventeen yards, 

Q Fifteen to seventeen yards. Now, at the point where you 

were thrown is the ground flat or how is it? 
A With your permission, I would like to show you with my 

hands, 

Q Well, you can shovr the Court with your hands too, but 
then we want you also to describe it. Turn around and 
show the Court, 

A The terrain near the church there, there is a hole thgt 
goes like this (Indicating). 

Q A hole that goes like this, indicating a downward motion 
of the hand. 

A Then there is a certain article, like pine needles and 
things of that nature, that stick in your hand, and the 
terrain there is sort of soft or muddy because that is 
where they throw garbage or rubbish. I 'was in a position 
about a yard from the edge of this thing and when they 
threw me down I ended up right there at the bottom of it. 

Q Nov/, will you cane over here, please, and pace off for the 
Court about how far your body rolled and fell before you 
came to a stop. Suppose he starts from right here, from this 



table or desk, because we h^ve used It before. 

Defense: You are talking about distance over the ground? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Oh, distance over the ground. Yes, 
he said rolling. 

Defense: I just v/anted to understand that, 

A (V/itness paces off distance as requested.) 

Q, All right, let's mark that. 

Defense: I will supply the ruler but you have to measure 
it this time J 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let's not take the time to do it. 
We will do it during the recess, 

Q Now, after you came to a stop how did you make your way 
back up to level ground? 

A I went up the same way, the same direction, that I came in, 
I had to go up very slowly because from the blow that I 
received in my leg and all those needles sticking in me, 
and I was also crying fron the pain that I felt, I had to 
make my v/ay slowly. When I reached the top I stuck my head 
out over the edge and I saw some — 

Defense: Clearly this isn't responsive, 

Q All right, we will stop at this point. Now, after you got 

up close to the top what, if anything, did you see? 
A I saw military police that arrived in a jeep, 

Q, Did you or not sustain any bruises or other injuries on 

your leg? 
A Yes, the scratches that I received while I was falling, 

but I onlj'^ received one blow. 

Q Where was that blovi;? 
A On the left leg. 

Q, Did you or not go to a hospital? 
A Yes, 

Q' How long v/ere you in the hospital? • ■ 

A I went there Monday night and I remained there until 
about Friday. 

Q And what v/ere you treated for, if anything? 
A For the blow that I had. 

Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution has no further 
questions , 



507 



Defense: The defense has no questions. 

President: Any questions by the Court? If not, the 
witness will be excused. 

There being no further questions, the witness v/as 
excused and v/ithdrew. 

President: The Court will take a recess for fifteen 
minutes and reconvene at twenty-five minutes to eleven. 

The Court thereupon recessed at 10:20 a.m., and recon- 
vened at 10:35 a.m,, 25 November, 1944, 

President: Is the prosecution ready? 

Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Is the defense ready to proceed? 

Defense: The defense is ready, sir. 

President: The Court v;ill come to order. 

Law Member: The record v/ill show -- 

Trial Judge Advocate: (Interrupting) That each of the 
accused are present and all members of the Court are present, 
and personnel representing the accused are present as well as 
the personnel for the prosecution. 

The interpreter and reporter were also present. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record show that measure- 
ments were made of the distance indicated by the witness 
Vencoto and that such distance Indicated by him was 28-1/6 
feet. That is correct, isn't it? 

Defense: Yes, that is correct. 

Corporal Major Luigi Purlanelli, 28th Italian Quarter- 
master Service Company, a v/itness for the prosecution, was 
sworn and testified through the interpreter, as follows: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q State your full name . 
A Luigi Purlanelli. 

Q That is Purlanelli, his last name, and Luigi is his 
first name. 

Law Member: Will you spell the last name again? 

Trial Judge Advocate: P-u-r-1-a-n-e-l-l-i. 



508 



Q And what Is your grade? 
A Corporal Major; 

Q, And your organization, please? 

A 28th Italian Quarterraaster Service Company. 

Q And your station? 
A Mt, Rainier. 

Q Do you speak the English language? 
A Noo 

Q Were you ever stationed at Port Lawton, Washington? 
A Yes 

Q Were you stationed there dxjring the month of August 1944? 
A Yes. 

Q, Do you recall the Incident on the evening of August 14 
1944, when a group of Negro soldiei's entered the Italian 
area at Port Lav/ton? 

A Yes. 

Q V/here were you at that time? 
A In my bunk. 

Q In what barracks, 
A 710. 

Q Step up here, please, to this map and let's make sure 

that you have the barracks In mind. This Is Prosecution 
Exhibit No, 2, and this is the Italian area, Lawton Road 
runs along here, here is barracks 700, here is barracks 
709, here is the orderly room, 713, and here is 710, and 
here is 712, the latrine. (To Interpreter) Will you 
explain to him now the different point. 

Interpreter: I explained it to him. 

Q Nov/, will you point to the barracks in which you were? 
A (Witness indicates) . 

Q 710. All right. 
A Yes, 

Q Have a seat. Were you asleep v;hen you first heard of 

this incident occurring? 
A No, 

Q What were you doing? 

A I was smoking a cigarette, 

Q What first attracted your attention to this incident? 
A Shouts. 



f^na 



Q Anything happen after that? ^ 

A I heard thera come dovi^n the stairs, 

Q Down the stairs of what? 

A The stairs that go up to PX No. 3. 

Q, All right. Come to the plat and point out where those 

stairs are. 
A Here behind this barracks " 

Interpreter: Behind barracks 710 is where he pointed to 
and next to V/yoming Avenue, 

Q All right. After you heard that what did you do? .. 

A I got up. j 



Q Did you dress? 
A No 

Q Did you stay in your barracks or leave your barracks? 
A I went out , 

Q How were you dressed when you went out? 
A In my shorts and my under s hlrt. 

Q Were you barefooted or did you wear shoes? 
A I didn't have any shoes e 

Q And after you went out where did you go? 
A In the orderly room. 

Q Building 713. This is a plat of the orderly room; that 
is Prosecution Exhibit 3. This is a side door, door E; 
door A represents the front door; this is room R, 
room X, room Z, room Y. (To interpreter) Will you 
explain that to him, 

A Yes, sir . 

Q Now, how did you enter the orderly room? 
A From door A, 

Q- And where did you proceed from door A? 
A I went inside where the Americans sleep. 

Q V/here is that, in which room? 
A Z 

Q Room Z. Did you thereafter leave room Z and go to any 
other room in the orderly room, or did you remain in 
room Z? 

A I called the sergeant. 

Q YJhat Sergeant? 

A The one that sleeps in that bunk there (indicating). 

Q I see. 



.1 



Defense; Indicating the bed by the vvindov/ in room Z. 

Q Yes, indicating the bed by the window, only window, in 
room Z. Nov/, after timt happened did you stay in room 
Z or did you go to another room? 

A I was there with Sergeant Todde . I shut myself in this 
closet here (indicating). 

Q Shut yourself in a closet in room Z, which is marked 

"closet-RP", All right. How long did you remain in that 
closet'? 

A Just for a little while „ 

Q After you left the closet where did you go? 
A In that larger room (indicating) . 

Q All right. Point again. 
A (Witness points.-) 

Q Room X. And v/hat did you do after you got into room X? 

A Plsciottano and I wunt to hold this door here (indicating). 

Q That is door D? 
A Ye s , that one . 

Q Did you or not close tVie door? 

A Yes, Plsciottano and I hejd it with our shoulders, 

Q Was that door thereafter opened? 

A We both left it because we heard blows -- because I 

heard the blows against the door they were crashing in. 

Q That was door D? 
A Yes, this one. 

Q All right. Was that door thereafter broken down or crashed 

through or not? 
A I don't know v/hether it was crashed or not, I know that it 

was open . 

Q It was open. All right. After door D was then open, 
state whether or not anyone entered room X? 

A As soon as the; door uas open I was hit v/ith a brick or a 
stone in my face, I don't know whether it was a brick or 
a stone . • • 

Q All right. Now, tell the Court v;here you were struck? 
A Under the left eye. 

Q All right, van you point to where the spot is? 
A (Witness Indicates). 

Q, After you were struck with this brick or stone, which- 
ever it was, what, if anything, happened to you? 
A I fell down to the floor under a table . 



511 



Q In what room? 

A Always the sanie one, 

q Room X. 

Law Member: Have him answer that, 

Q Was It room X? ' 

A Yes, always this one (Indicating) , 

Q Did you move from there during the time the attack was 

on or did you remain there? 
A No, at the end I v/ent Into that room, 

Q Now, did you point to room Y? 

A Yes, that one (indicating) . ' 

Q Then did you remain In room Y or did you leave room 

Y before the attack was over? 
A I placed myself under a table • 

Q Where was this table that you placed yourself under? 
A It was Captain Beckman's desk, 

Q All right, show us v;hero Beckman's desk was. Just 

point to it in room Y. 
A (V/itness indicates.) 

Q, He pointed to the place marked "table", Major, 

Defense : Yes, 

Law Member: The west wall of — 

Trial Judge Advocate: (Interrupting) of room Y. 

Q Did you remain there or move from there? 
A I remained there, 

Q Until the affair v/as over? . . 

A Until the police came, ^ 

Q All right. Have a seat nov/. Did you or not at any I 

time try to jump from a window in the orderly room? .| 

A Yes, I tried to run av;ay by the v/indov/ , j 

Q And in v;hat room was that? 

A The largest one; the one v/here I was hit v/lth the stone. J 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, he has already testified 
which one that was, Ilajor; room X» 

Defense; I think that's right, 

Q Nov/, did you observe that evening while you were in room X 



that Sergeant Perata sustained any injury? i 

A. I saw him virtaen he was losing blood, J 

Q What, if anything, did you do when you saw that? 
A I removed his sweater and I tied him like this so that 
he wouldn't lose any more blood (Indicating). 

Interpreter: It v/as underwear 3ns tead of shirt, 1 

Law Member: That is Instead of sweater? | 

Interpreter: No, instead of shirt, 

Q What did he do with the undershirt? 
A I tied it . 

Q Tied what? 

A Where he was losing blood. 

Q Now, did you see any stones thrown in the orderly 
room that night other than the stone or brick that 
hit you? 

A Yes, 

Q About hov; many would you estimate? 
A I can't know how many. 

Q Were there just a few or were there a number? 
A I don't knov/ how many there v/ere because I was already 
hurt, 

Q I see. ?\rere any windows broken in the orderly room that 

night? 
A Yes, - : .j 

Q Wh'at windows v;ere broken? Let's step up here to the map i 

and point out the v;indov;s that were broken? ^ 

A (Witness indicates) . \ 

Q All right. The window in room Z. 
A (Witness indicates.) 

Q, The window next to room R in room X. Any others? 
jBi I only saw those tvK> . 

Q You only sav; those tv/o. 

Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution has no further 
questions, if it please the Court, 

Defense: The defense has no questions. 

President: Any questions by the Court? 

Law Member: One question, please. 



513 



EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 

Questions by Lav/ Member: 

Q Furlanelli, you said you did attempt to jump out of a 

window, is that correct? 
A I was trying to run, yes, 

Q What window v/as that? 

A The one in the larger room, 

Q That he has just said was broken? 
A Yes. 

President: Any further questions by the Court? The 
witness may be excused. 

There being no further questions, the witness was 
excused and withdrev;. 

Corporal Major Virgilio Manca, 28th Italian Quartermaster | 



-'i 



Service Company, a v/itness for the prosecution, was sworn 
and testified through the Interpreter, as follows: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q State your full name, please, I 

A Manca Virgilio, | 

Q Well, it is Virgilio Manca, isn't it? j 

A Virgilio Manca, yes, 

Q What is your grade? I 

A Corporal Major. 1 

1 

Q And your organization? 

A 28th Italian Quartermaster Service Company 

Q And your station? , J 

A Near Tacoma 

Q Well, do you knov; what the place is called? , j 

Defense: Oh, I will stipulate it Is Mt, Rainier. | 

A No, I don't. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, there is a reason for 
that, but you will stipulate it is Mt. Rainier, He has 
been in a hospital. 

Defense: If you tell me that, is the fact. 



514 



! 



i 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, 



Q Now, do you speak English? 
A No. 

Q Were you stationed at Port Lawton in August 1944? 
A Yes. 

Q, Do you recall ths incident on the night of August 14, 
1944, v/hen some Negro soldiers entered the Italian 
area at Fort Lav; ton? 

A Yes. - 

Q V/here were you when that Incident occurred? 
A In my barracks. 

Q And what v/as the nxomber of your barracks? I 

A 8 . - i 

Q Just 8? 

A Yes, J 

i 

Q All right, come with me and let's get this Sbraight, • .| 

This is Prosecution Exhibit 2, and this represents I 

the Italian area; this Is Lawton Road; here is j 

barracks 706, 709, and here is the orderly room, and 1 

here is the latrine, 712, Barracks 710 is back here. '", 
(To Interpreter) Now, will you explain that to him, 
please. Now, in what barracks did you atay? 

A (Witness points.) i 

Q, He pointed to 708? 
A 708. 

Q, Now, v/here you asleep or what? 

A I was asleep. ' ' j 

J 
Q What awakened you? j 

A When I heard the first stones there, and there was a ] 

couple of Italian soldiers that were entering ray j 

barracks at the time that woke me up too. i 

Q What did you do after you v/oke up? 
A I ran to the orderly room, 

Q, To the orderly room. Nov;, this Prosecution Exhibit 3 
is a plat of the orderly room, and this is the front 
door, door A and tills is the side door, door E; this 
is one room, room R, room X, room Z and room Y (To inter- 
preter) Now, explain that to him. 

A I entered through there (indicating). 

Q All right. Which door is that? Call it by its name, 
A Door A, 



RT K 



Q All right. And after yoii entered through door A 

v/here did you go? 
A D ' 

Q Door D. And from the doorway of D where did you go? 
A I placed myself here (indicating). There was a little 
table here (indicating). 

Q, All right; here. Point again, please. 

A That is v/here I placed myself (indicating) . 

Q All right, Y/e will mark that "VM" . Did you stay there 

or did you leave? 
A I remained there until the Negroes broke through the 

door, 

Q All right, through v/hat door? ' 
A D. 

Q, All right. After the Negroes, and let ne ask you 

vifhether or not they v/ere Negro soldiers or civilians? 
A They were soldiers. 

Q After they broke through door D, then what, if any- 
thing, did you do? 

A I went out here (indicating), because here (indicating) 
there were only two or three Negroes. 

Q All right. Pointing to room R. And from room R, v/here, J 

if anyv-'here^, did you go? I 

A Outside. I 

Q Out of door Ao All right. Now, v/hile you were doing that, J 

please explain to the Court whether you had anything in i 
your hand and, if so, what it was and hov; you were using 

it. .i 

A In order to protect myself from the blov;s I placed a ' 
chair like this for protection (illustrating), 

Q Held in front of his head? 
A Yes, for ray own protection, 

i 

Q Did you or not carry that chair with you until you got out ' 

of the orderly room? 
A Yes, 

Q, Nov/, after you got out of the orderlj room viiere did you go? 

■i 
President: Have him stand away, 

Q, Stand away so the Court can see, 

A I went this was (indicating). Is this a tent? 

Interpreter: V/hich I answered yes. 

A I went this way betv/een the angle of this tent and the 

angle of the latrine (indicating) where I received blows, 

516 



Q Now, he Indicated -- 

Defense: Why don't we call those tents 1 and 2, or 
something like that? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I was just getting ready to mark 
them and I wanted to get his Indication In first, 

Q Now, he Indicated at door A of the orderly room and went 
to the northern side of this tent, v/hlch we will call 
tent 1, 

Interpreter: He said: I passed right by the door of the 
tent . 

Q All right. Right by the door of tent 1, and then between 

tent 1 and latrine, 
A There was a Negro standing still there, (indicating), 

Q Where was he standing now? 

Defense: So we can keep the record complete and -under- 
standable, can't we agree that the tent that has always been 
referred to before this v/itness testified was tent 2? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, I think, however, we indi- 
cated how that tent stood each time, but we can call it tent 2. 

Q Now, point to v/here this Negro soldier v/as standing, 

A Here on the side; directly betv/een the latrine and the tent, 

Q And that is tent 2. 

A Leaning against the sideo 1 






Q, That is tent 2, Now, you say he was leaning against the 

side. Side of what? 
A He was right there at the tent, I don't know whether he ' 

was actually leaning against it, I couldn't say that, \ 

Q All right. Lot's get that straight. The tent that he has ; 

been talking about is indicated as tent 1, ' 

Defense: That's right. 

Q, What, if anything, happened there? ] 

A He gave me a blow with an ax here (indicating) -- with 
the hammer part of the ax, 

Q, He gave you a blow with the handle or hammer of the ax? 
A Hammer part of the ax, 

! 
Q, Where did you receive the blow? 
A Right here (indicating), 

Q Pointing to his left forearm. 

Defense: I didn't think the forearm he pointed to but 
the upper part. 

517 



Q All right, point again. 
A (V/itness indicates.) 

Defense: At least he is indicating the forearm now. 

» 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, forearm is correct. Let the 
record show it is the left forearm. 

Q All right, you may have a seat. Can you describe v/hat 
this ax looks like that you were struck v/ith? 

A The ax was composed — that the handle of it was about 
as long as this pole (indicating) . 

President: Let's have the length of that, 

A On this side was like the ax side (indicating) and on 
this side like a hammer (indicating) . 

Q Were you struck v;ith the ax side or the hammer side? 
A The hammer. 

Q The hammer side. Let's get this stick measured to 
determine the length of the ax. 

The stick referred to was then measured by the Assis- 
tant Trial Judge Advocate. 

Assistant Trial Judge Advocate: Thirty-three inches. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Thirty-three inches is the length 
of the ax as indicated by the witness. That is agreeable, 
is it. Major? 

Defense: Oh, yes, sure, 

Q State v;hether or not you were taken to a hospital by 

reason of that injury, 
A Yes. It was broken, 

Q How long v/ere you in the hospital the first time you 

were taken there? 
A The first day, thirty-five days, 

Q The first day? 
A The first time . 

Q The first time thirty-five days. VJere you or not later 
again taken to the hospital for the treatment of that 
same injury? 

A Yes, at Port Lev/is, 

Q And how long did you remain in the hospital on that 

occasion? 
A Fifteen days, 

Q What is the condition of your arm at this time with 

respect to whether or not you have the same use that you 
had of it 

518 



before you sustained that Injury? 
A Here (Indicating) I can hardly feel anything In the 
muscle, and It Is without any strength, 

Q What was your v/ork In civilian life? 
A Artist, 

Interpreter: That signifies actor. 

Q What type? 
A Circus . 

Q Have him explain that further so the Court v/111 knov; 

whether he v/as an acrobat or v;hat use he made of his arm. 

Defense: I can't see the materiality. If the Court 
please, V/e aren't trying a personal injury case here. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I think the Court Is entitled to 
know. 

Law Member: I don't think so. It Is not material. It la 
not a question of damages. Objection sustained. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right, I will withdraw the 
que s ti on , 

Q Now, you spoke of not having the same use of the muscles 
in that arm. V/hat is the condition of the forearm Itself 
at this time? 

A I don't know. The doctor told me — 

Q (Interrupting) Well, never mind what the doctor told him. 

He doesn't know? 
A No, 

Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution has no further 
questions , 

Defense: The defense has no questions, if the Court 
please. 

President: Any questions by the Court? The witness may 
be excused. 

There being no furtlier questions, tiie v^itness was excused 
and v;ithdrew. 

Private Ego Pugazza, 28th Italian Quartermaster Service 
Company, a v/itness for the prosecution, was sworn and testi- 
fied through the interpreter, as follo?;s: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q State your full name , • 



519 



A Ego Pugazza, 

Q E-g-o P-u-g-a-z-z-a. And what is your grade? 

A Private, 

Q And your organization? 

A 2ath Italian Quartermaster Service Company, 

Q And your station? 

A Mt. Rainier, 

Q Do you spealc the English language? 

A No, 

Q How old are you? 

A 24 

Q V/ere you ever stationed at Port Lav/ton, V/ashlngton? 

A Yes, 

Q State whether or not you v/ere stationed there during 

the month of August 1944, 

A Yes. 

Q Do you recall the Incident on the night of August 14, 

1944, v;hen a group of Negro soldiers entered the Italian 
area at Port Lawton, V/ashlngton? 

A Yes. 

Q Where were you when you first learned of that incident? 

A I was in my barracks . 

Q Do you remember the number of the barracks? 

A 708, 

Q VThat first attracted your attention to this incident? 

A It v/as noise. Noise and shouts, 

Q After you heard this noise and these shouts what, if 

anything, did you do? 

A I got up from my bed. 

Q And then what did you do? 

A Then I exited from the barracks. 

Q And after you exited fron the barracks v/here did you go? 

A I went into the latrine that was there Illuminated, 

Q Nov;, after you virent in the latrine did you remain there 

or go elsewhere? 

A I remained there a few nlnutes. 

Q, And then where did you go? 

A After I went to the orderly room. 



( 



Q After that you went into the orderly room. All right, step 



520 



up here with me. Now this Prosecution Exhibit 2 repre- 
sents, depicts here, the Italian area; this Is Lawton 
Road; here Is barracks 708, the barracks you say you 
slept In; barracks 709; here Is the orderly room, 713. 
This Is tent 2, tent 1, and the latrine, 712. (To Inter- 
preter) Will you explain that to him. Now, I want to call 
your attention to Prosecution Exhibit 3, v/hlch Is a plat 
of the orderly room. Door E is the side entrance to the 
orderly room; door A is the front entrance to the order- 
ly room. This room R represents the room indicated here; 
this large room is X; room Z; and room Y, which has also 
been called the Captain's room, Nov;, will you tell him 
that (to Interpreter ), 
A I understand, 

Q Now, through v;hich door did you enter the orderly room? 
A This one , 



Q That is door A? 
A A, 

Q And where did you go from there? 
A Just like this (Indicating), 

Q All right, you indicated you went through door D? 
A D 

Q And into room X? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q, Now, how long did you remain in room X? 

A I remained there until they attacked the barracks. 

Q Now, what barracks are you having reference to? 
A That one (indicating) . 

Q, The orderly room? i 

A Yes, . j 

Q All right. What do you mean by "when they attack j 

the orderly room"? i 

When they started breaking in the doors and throwing rocks, 

Q Did you at any time v;hile you were in the orderly room 

enter room Y? | 

A Yes, 

Q, V/here in room Y did you go? 
A There (indicating), 

Q All right, point again. (To Interpreter) Tell him that ^ 

represents a table in room Y, 
A (Witness indicates again.) 

Q, All right. That would be on the south side of the table, 
of the place marked "table". 



RP.1 



Defense: South? 

Law Member: Assuming that map up is north. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That's right. 

Law Member: V/ell, you know, for the purpose of the 
record. If you state the top of the Exhibit 3 is north. Is 
that all right? 

Defense: Yes, sir^ 

Q All right. Nov;, did you while you were in room Y have 

an opportunity to look at the window of room Y? 
A Yes. 

Q What, if anything, did you see? 

A I saw several Negroes attempting to strike us with 
axes and clubs. 

Q Were they Negro soldiers? 
A Yes. 

Q, Now, where were these Negro soldiers standing you say 

were attempting to strike you with clubs and axes? 
A They were outside the barracks • 

Q With respect to where the window is v;here were they, 

the window of room Y? 
A (Witness indicates). 

Q Indicating right in front of the window in room Y. 

Defense: That's right. 

Q Did you or not see anyone reach through the window of 
room Y from the outside? 

Defense: I thi.nk tliat is leading and suggestive, if 
the Court please, and object for that reason. 

Law Member: I think it is, Reframe your question, 

Q All right. Vifhat did you see any of those standing in 

front of room Y doV 
A I saw that they were attempting to strike us while we 

were inside with pieces of wood, and that they were 

striking at the desks with axes, 

Q, Are you able to tell this Court ab;v: a ■'v many Negro 
soldiers you sav; In front of that -.. in.'io'\rv 

A At the window there were several, I con • t knew the 
exact number. 

Interpreter: Might I make a correctJ.on at this time, I 



coo 



said striking desks. That should be desk in the singular. 

Law Member: To an answer previously given where you 
spoke of striking desks v/ith axes, that should be desk? 

Interpreter: Yes, sir, 

Q All right. 

Defense: Did I understand him to correct the axes to ax 
too? 

Interpreter: No, Just the desks to desk, 

Q While you were in the orderly room did you sustain any 

injury? 
A Yes, 

Q What injury did you sustain? 

A A wound on the head by a blow from a brick, 

Q, Were you or not talcen to a hospital? 
A Yes. 

Q And how long did you remain there? 
A I remained there about a week, 

Q All right. You may have a seat. 

Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution has no further 
questions . 

Defense: The defense has no questions. 

President: Any questions by the Court? 

Major MacLennan: Yes, 

EXAMNATION BY THE COURT 

Questions by Major ITacLennan: 

Q The witness has testified that the colored soldiers 
were standing outside of the window of room Y? (To 
interpreter) Would you ask him that again? 

A PrcsTi the window, they were outside, 

Q And the striking of the desks in room Y with axes? 
A They hit the desk once or twice but they also hit me 

several times; also some others that might have been 

in there. 

Q The point is, are you sure the colored soldiers were 

outside? 
A Yes, outside, and they leaned inside; they reached 

inside, 

Q I see, 

523 



Major MacLennan: Thank you. 
President: Any other questions? 

Defense: I think I will ask him one or two questions, 

CROSS EXAMINATION 
Questions by Defense: 

Q Pugazza, will you come over here a minute, please. 

Whereabouts v/as It that you were In room Y at the time 
that you sav/ them striking at the desks and tlirough the 
window? 

A (Witness Indicates on Prosecution Exhibit 3). 

Q All right. Let's nark that. What Is his Initials, EP? 

Law Member: That's right, 
A Around that space there (Indicating). 
Q All right. 

Law Member: What did you put dovm? 

Defense; The letters "EP", the man's initials. 

A Around that space there, I wasn't always standing still, 

Q How far is it from the ground to the bottom of the window 

in room Y? 
A I can't exactly state. ' 

Q Well, tell him to come over here and show us on the pole 
here; give his best recollection as to the distance. 

A I believe it is about like this (indicating on pole pre- 
viously marked for measurement), 

Q Well, have him Indicate there, 
A (Witness Indicates.) 

Q That is his best recollection of the height? 
A Yes, I believe it is about that. 

The Defense Counsel then measured the distance Indicated 
by the witness with a ruler. 

Defense: That will be three feet eleven three quarter 
Inches, That is all the questions I have = 

Law Member: I just want to make sure we have that right. 
Is that measurement on the outside of the building? 

Defense: I asked him from the ground up. Well, I will see 
whether he understands it. I assume he did. 



524 



Q Now the neasurement you have just given us Is on the 
outside of the building from the ground to the bottom 
of the window of room Y? 

A No, from the inside, 

Q Oh, fran the inside. Well, now, have him indicate now 

how far it is from the ground to the bottom of the window 
on the outside of the building, 

A It was a little higher certainly from the outside, 

Q, Well, come over here on the pole and show us about how 

high it was. 
A Fran the outside about here at this line (indicating on 

pole previously marked showing distances). 

Defense: He has indicated at the five foot line. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Five footline, 

A Exactly I don't knov/. 

Defense: That is all. 

President: Any fTjrther questions? 

Trial Judge Advocate: There is one question if I may 
be permitted, 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Do you know whether or not the colored soldiers whom you 
say you sav/ reaching through that v/indow were standing 
on the ground or were standing on sariethlng else? 

A I don ' t knov/ . 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all. 
Defense: That is all, 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 
Questions by President: 



t 



Q How far was the desk from the windov;? < 

A Exactly I don't knov/, 

Q Was it right under the v;indow? 

A I don't remember nov/ v/hether it was exactly under or not. 

President: No further questions. The v/itness may be 
excused. 

There being no furttier questions, the witness was ex- 
cused and withdrew. 



525 



Sergeait Major Gaetano Pagllainlnuta> 28th Italian 
Quartermaster Service Company, a witness for the prosecu- 
tion, was sworn and testified through the Interpreter, as 
followsj 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q State your name. 

A Pagliaminuta Gaetano, 

Q The first name Is Gaetano? 

A Gaetano, and the last name is Pagliaminuta, 

Q Give \as your grade, 

A Sergeant Major. .-. 

Q And your organization, please. 

A 28th Italian Quartermaster Service Company. 

Q And your station, please. 
A Mt, Rainier, 

Q Do you speak the English language? 
A No, 

Q Were you ever stationed at Port Lawton, Washington? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Were you stationed there during the month of August 1944? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Do you recall an incident that occurred on the night of 
Atigust 14, 1944, involving the entry of some Negro 
soldiers in the Italian area at Port Lawton? 

A Sir, yes , 

Q Where were you at that time? ' 

A I was in bed; to sleep. . ' 

Q, And in what barracks were you? 
A 708. 

Q What first attracted your attention to this incident? 
A I heard noise and shouts, 

Q After you heard the noise and the shouts what, if any- 
thing, did you do? 
A I heard the arrival of stones on the barracks. 

Q Well, after you heard the arrival of stones on the bar- 
racks, what, if anything, did you do? 
A I ran to the orderly room, - 

Q You ran to the orderly room. Now, let's step over here and 



526 



take a look at Prosecution Exhibit 3, v/hich is a plat 
of the orderly room- I will explain to you this is 
door A, which is the front door of the orderly room. 
Door E is the side door to the orderly room, and this 
is knovm as room R, this first room. This large room 
is known as room X, and this room where the American 
personnel slept is known as room Z, and the Captain's 
room is room Y, Please tell him that. 
A I understand, 

Q All right. Now through which door did you enter the 

orderly room? 
A (witness indicates), ■" 

Q Door A? 
A A, 

Q Then which way did you go? 
A I stopped here (indicating) 

Q All right. That is just beyond the doorway of door D? 
A Do I stopped in the doorv/ay there to hold the door shut 

Q To hold the door shut. Now, are you speaking of door D? 
A Yes, this one . 

Q All right. After that was door D at any time opened? 
A Yes, 

Q How v/as it opened? 

A With an ax they were hitting it, , > 

Q After it was opened who entered, if anyone? 
A When I saw the door was opening, this one here (indica- 
ting), I ran in here (indicating). 

Q When you saw door D opening you ran to doorway C, 
A The room of Captain Beckman's, 

Q Which was room Y? 
A Yes, 

Q, Did you remain then in room Y? 

A No, as soon as I entered the room I was hit with a blow 
on the head, 

^ All right. Now, about where were you when that blow on 

the head was delivered? 
A Right here at the wall (Indicating) . 

Q At the wall next to doorv;ay G> 
A As you enter to the right, 

Q As you enter to the right of v/hatv Of the doorway? 
A Of the door, near the door, 

Q Do you know what you were struck with? 
A I believe it was a club. 



527 



Q Well, do you know? 

A I don't know, I received a blow on ray head and I didn't 
see because I was running into the room. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Now, the answer was, "I believe 
it was a club." I agree that should be stricken. 



Law Member: Yes, that goes out, j 

Q What, if anything, happened to you after you received 

that blow? 
A I went to the ground, I Immediately placed my hands 

over ray head in order to protect myself, and I was hit 

again and they broke three fingers. 

Interpreter: He pointed to the fingers. 

Q Three fingers on what hand? 

A This of the left hand (indicating), it still doesn't 
function -- 

Q Walt a minute. That is the fourth finger of the left hand? 
A Yes. 

Q Now, tell us about your other fingers. 
A This one and this one (indicating). 

Q All right. That is the little finger and then the ring 
finger of the right hand. Were all three fingers that 
you have described to the Court broken? 

A Yes, broken. Captain Emory who is treating me told rae. 

Law Member: That may go out. 

Q All right. Now did you remain in room Y until the 

military police arrived? 
A Yes. 

Q All right, have a seat. Were you taken to a hospital? 
A Yes. 

Q Hov/ long did you remain in the hospital? 
A Twenty-six days. 

Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution has no further 
que s ti on s . 

Defense: The defense has no questions. 

President: Any questions by the Court? There appears 
to be none . Tlie witness is excused« 

There being no further questions, the witness was 
excused and withdrew. 

President: The Court will recess now, to reconvene at 
1:30, The Court will reconvene here and immediately proceed to 



KCD 



the area as shown on Prosecution Exhibit 2, The members ;| 

of the Court, the members of the prosecution and the Defense i 

Counsel, and the accused will accompany the Court this after- 
noon. 

Interpreter: Is it necessary for the interpreters to 
ac company you? 

Defense: Does the Court intend to reconvene after an 
inspection of the premises? 

President: I think we can reconvene and may cut it a 
little short after that. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, I am in a little bit of an 
indefinite situation with respect to calling certain witnesses, 
but if we do come back here and go back into the evidence I 
hope the Court will bear with me if there is a slight delay 
in ray having a witness present. I am going to try to make 
those arrangements, but frankly I have assumed, which I had 
no right to but I did, that perhaps if the premises were 
inspected today there might not be further evidence, I had 
anticipated the Court would spend more time than I now under- 
stand will be devoted to an inspection of the premises. But I 
think I can proceed. All I ask is that I be given a little 
time. 

President: V/e v/ill reconvene here after inspecting the 
premises and proceed from that time on as circumstances indi- 
cate. Now the Lav/ Member has something he wants to say. 

Law Member: I just wanted to say we are going to recon- 
vene here at 1:30 first. 

President; That's right. Have you anything else? 

Law Member: No, sir. 

The Court thereupon recessed at 11:55 a,m,, and reconvened 
at 1:30 p.ra,, 25 November 1944. 

President: Is the prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advoca^te: The prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Is the defense ready? 

Defense: Yes, sir. 

President: The Court will come to order, 

A roll call of the accused, who were seated in the court 
room, was then conducted by the Assistant Trial Judge Advo- 
cate, 



529 



The Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record show each of 
the accused are present, all members of the Court are pres- 
ent, and the personnel representing the accused and the per- 
sonnel representing the prosecution are present. 

President: During the recess of the Court, the Court 
met In closed session and voted on the Interlocutory question 
of whether the Court should proceed to the scene of the 
incident. It was unanimously decided by the Court that the 
Court would proceed to the scene of the incident; that the 
prosecution and the defense would acconpany the Court; that 
all accused would accompany the Court; that no questions 
would be asked or witnesses interrogated at the scene; and 
that the Court would remain together as a group. Further, 
that there vrould be no comments made either by the prosecu- 
tion, the defense, or any members of the Court, 

Law Member: Now, gentlemen, we intend to viev; the areas 
which liave been described as the Italian area, Lawton Road, 
the Intersection of Virginia Avenue and Lav/ton Road, the 
location of barracks 719, the recreation hall and the church. 
Now, has either the Trial Judge Advocate or the Defense Coun- 
sel any suggestions to the Court of other places which we will 
at this time view, 'I 

Trial Judge Advocate: Toes the Court wish me to speak 
first? 

President : Yes. - ^ , 

.^ 

Trial Judge Advocate: I think that based on the evidence j 

that has come into the record at this time that the Law Member | 

has stated the full extent of the view that can be entertained 
at the moment. Of course, in speaking of the Italian area, I 
know that you have in mind each of the barracks that are 
mentioned, « 

Law Member: That is correct. 

Trial Judge Advocate: 708, 709, 710, and the latrine, 
712, and the orderly room, 713, I assume that that is correct, , 

isn't it? ! 

President: Does the prosecution desire the Court to go 
into those barracks ? 

Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution has no objection 
to the Court going into any of those barracks or the orderly 
room. However, I v/ould like for the Defense to speak as to j 

the orderly room particularly because the occupancy of that | 

room today is not what It v/as at the tine of the incident and ] 

there is no evidence as to what the inside of it presently is 
like. But the prosecution has no objection v/hatsoever. 

Law Member: Regardless of the occupancy, aren't the 
barracks at 715 nov; the way they were on the night of the 
incident? Do you icnov/, Tfejor? 

530 



Defense; Of course, I had never seen the building prior i 

to the Incident, I think it is substantially the same. I | 

don't think that there are any changes of any material con- j 

sequence, I believe now in room R here, as shown in Prosecu- \ 

tion Exhibit 3, there are counters on each side of the door. ■ 

Lav/ Member; There is evidence in the record there were 
partitions and benches at the time. 

Defense; I think that is true, I don't think there is 
anything about the premises at this time that would be pre- 
judicial to the defense if the Court reviewed them, and as 
far as the defense is concerned, I would be happy for the 
Court to go into all those buildings. 

Law Member: Any individual accused have any suggestions 
as to where they v/ould like the Court to go today other than 
what your Counsel, Major Beeks, has stated; If so, raise 1 

your hand and tell me. , , . ■j 

Thereupon one of the accused arose and stated: Sir, I 
have never been into the Italian area, and I don't toow how i 

it looks, and I would like to go there -- A 

Lav/ Member: That wasn't the question. The auestion was. 
No, 5 -- 

Thereupon another of the accused arose and stated; I 
lived there in 719 and I v/ould like for you to go there and 
show you -- 

i 

Law Member: You can't show us, but we will go. You v;ant 1 

us to go inside of 719, I 

Defense: V/hat was your barracks number? 

Answer; (By one of the accused,) 719 was my barracks, ; 

Lav/ Member: We will go in and go downstairs and upstairs 
in 719. What Is your name, please? 

Answer: (By one of the accused.) My name is Arthur L. 
Stone, sir. 

Law Member: The answer of the other man should be 
stricken from the record. 

President; The question was did you particularly want 
to go into any buildings. The point I have in mind is this. 
The Court will probably not desire to go into all of the 
buildings in the area; probably only desire to go into one 
or two. Do you have any buildings you particularly want us 
to ga in? 

Defense; I have no buildings that I am specifically ask- 
ing the Court to go into, but on the other hand, I have no 
objection if the Court desires, 

531 



Trial Judge Advocate: I have none either, sir, I think 
It is a matter wholly within tte discretion of the Court and 
I have no suggestions to make, I would like for the record 
to show the viewing of the premises coming at this time Is 
by reason of the express request that was made by Defense 
Counsel, acting for the accused, on two or three previous 
occasions , 

Law Member: That is correct. 

Defense: Of course, my primary request, I v/ant it under- 
stood, was for the Court to viev; it at nighttime. 

Law Member: But you also asked us to viev/ it In the day- 
time • 

Defense: That's right. I think the Court should in order 
to enable It to get a better understanding of this whole 
situation. 

Law Member J V/ell, we will go through the orderly room, 
713, and we will go through 719 at the request of the indivi- 
dual accused Stone , 

President; Tlie Court will move to the scone of the inci- 
dent. The accused may be taken out and put in the trucks. 

Captain Yarnell: (Of the military police) May I liave a 
question? I v;ould like one thing cleared up in ray mind that 
hasn't been answered. At any time are the accused to be 
moved from the vehicle which they are riding in? 

Law Member: It is ray belief that as near as the circum- 
stances permit the members of the Court should at all times 
be within sight of the accused at the time that we are inside 
the area. 

President: (To Captain Yarnell, of the military police,) 
Captain, we will notify you there if there is any necessity 
for taking them out of the cars. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Y/ill the Court recess now? 

President: We are moving down as a Court. 

At 1:45 p.m. all members of the Courts the personnel for 
the prosecution, the personnel for the defense, and all of 
the accused departed from the court room, and returned at 
2:35 p.m., 25 November, 1944, 

President: Is the prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Is the defense ready? 

Defense: Yes, sir. 

President: The Court will come to order, 

532 



A roll call was then made of the accused, v;ho were 
seated In the court room, by the Assistant Trial Judge 
Advocate, 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record show that each of 
the accused is present, that all members of the Court are 
present, the personnel representing the Defense and the per- 
sonnel representing the Prosecution. 

The interpreter and reporter were also present. 

President: The law Member will announce for the record 
the action of the Court visiting the scene. 

Law Member: The accused proceeded to the scene in tliree 
trucks, approximately fourteen in each truck, the Court went 
in separate vehicles, as did the Co\insel for the prosecution 
and the Counsel for the defense. The accused reached building 
719 first and followed the members of the Court and Counsel 
into the ground floor while that v/as being viewed. Then we 
proceeded up the stairs of barracks 719, followed by all of 
the accused, V/e then got back in the vehicles and drove in a 
general northerly direction on Virginia Avenue, turning left 
into Lawton Road and down into what has been described as the 
Italian area. Upon arrival there, all members of the Court, 
followed by all of the accused, filed through the orderly room, 
building 713, entering through door A into R, then through door 
D into X, at v;hich time rooms Y and Z were observed, and we all 
exited out door E. As far as the circ\amstances would permit, 
the members of the Court were in the presence of the accused 
at all times. While the accused remained in the orderly room, 
the members of the Court generally observed the area around 
tents 1 and 2, and the latrine and building 709. Then the 
accused got in their trucks and the accused were put in such 
a condition -- the trucks were put in such a position — that 
they could observe the members of the Court walking over the 
area v/hich has been described as the recreation hall and the 
church. The trucks containing the accused then proceeded up 
Lawton Road towards Virginia Avenue, and the members of the 
qourt, and the Counsel for the Prosecution and the Defense 
•^ounsel followed the route. At no time during the said review 
of tl^ premises v/ere any questions asked within the hearing of 
the Court or any answers made or any comraents made in any form 
whatsoever. Upon walking up past building 708 the members of 
the Court and Counsel for the prosecution and the defense 
boarded their vehicles and v/e have now returned here to the 
court room. The entire review took in the neighborhood of 
forty-five minutes. Now, then, has the Trial Judge Advocate 
or the Defense Counsel any suggestions to make pertaining to 
the statement of the facts or pertaining to the review as 
just outlined by me? 

Trial Judge Advocate: The Prosecution regards the review 
to be exactly correct with exception and has no suggestions 
to offer. 

Defense: The Defense is entirely satisfied with the state- 
ment made by the Court. I think the Court might mention the 

533 



premises ?;ere viewed In a torrential downpour. 



Law Member: Yes, it may appear in the record the Court 
certainly selected a very bad day to make this review of 
which the members thereof sincerely regret. 



President: In view of the fact that some of the accused 
were not furnished with raincoats, and all accused and all 
personnel v/ho made the trip have wet and damp feet, the Court 
will adjourn to meet at 9:00 Monday morning. 

The Court thereupon recessed at 2:45 p.m., 25 November 
1944, to reconvene at 9:00 a.m., 27 November 1944, 



LEON JAV/0R3KI 
Lt. Colonel, J.A.G.D. 
Trial Judge Advocate 



534 



Fort Lawton Staging Area 
Fort Lawton, Washington 
November 27, 1944 

The Court met, pursuant to adjournment, at 9:00 o'clock 
a.m., all of the personnel of the Court, Prosecution, and 
Defense, v/ho v;ere present at the close of the previous session 
in this case being present. 

President; Is the Prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: The Prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Is the Defense ready to proceed? 

Defense: The Defense is ready, sir. 

President: Court shall come to order. 

The roll of the accused was called by the Assistant Trial 
Judge Advocate, and all accused were present. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record show that each of 
the accused is present, that all members of the Court were pre- 
sent at the time of adjourning and all of the personnel repre- 
senting the accused are present, as well as the personnel re- 
presenting the Prosecution being present. The Reporter and In- 
terpreter were also present. 

Is the Court ready to proceed with the first witness? 

President; Yes. 

Corporal Richard King, Headquarters, Headquarters Detach- 
ment No. 2, a witness for the Prosecution, was sworn and testi- 
fied as follows. 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 
Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Now, I will ask you to speak loud and distinctly so that 
every member of the Court can hear you. You will have to 
raise your voice because this is a large room and we want 
it to carry well, "fliat is your naiae? 

A Richard King. 

Q, And your rank? 
A Corporal. 
Q Your outfit? 

A Headquarters, Headquarters Detachiaent 2, Camp George 
Jordan, is my station. 

Q iiVere you ever stationed at Fort Lawton? 
A Yes sir. 

Q And were you stationed at Fort Lawton in the Ilonth of August, 

535 



1944? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q 'vVhat was your organization when you were stationed at Port 
Lawton? 

A 650th Port Company. 

Q, Do you recall the incident on the night of August 14th, 1944? 

A Yes, sir. • 

Q, Vi/hen a group of negro soldiers were involved in an affair in 
the Italian area? 

A Yes^ sir. 

Q, (Vhere had you been prior to the time of this incident? 

A In my barracks. 

Q In what barracks is that. Corporal? 

A Headquarters Barracks. 

Q, Do you remember the number? 

A No, sir; I don't. 

Q Well, let us step over here to the Prosecution Exhibit 2, and 
see if that shows your barracks. I will point out to you what 
these are; this is Lawton Road running along here, and this is 
Virginia Avenue (indicating). 

A 665. 

Q, Barracks 665? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q All right. Barracks 665, you say. Y/hat first attracted 

your attention to the fact that some incident of an unusual 
nature was taking place in the Italian area? 

A I was in my bed, the second bunk from the window and I sees 
a jeep coming down the road, but I didn't pay any attention 
to it, but then Sergeant Thomas came into the barracks, 

Defense (interposing); Now I think, if the Court please, that 
this should be brought out by question and answer. 

Law Member: Yes. 

Q, All right. After Sergeant Thomas came into the Barracks, did 
you or did you not leave your barracks? 

A Yes, sir. 

^ For what purpose? 

536 



A Serjeant Thomas said, i 

1 
Q (interposins) Now, wait a minute. Don't say v/hat he said j 

but just forget that. '.Vhy did you leave the barracks? \ 

A I understood that there was a disturbance dovm in the other 
area. 

Q About how long after Sergeant Thomas's appearance did you leave 
the barracks? 

A Approximately five minutes. 

Q Approximately five minutes after you left the barracks. Did 
you meet up with anyone else before you got to the Italian 

area? 

1 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Who did you meet up with? 1 

A Sergeant Robert Gresham. 

Q Did you or not then proceed toward the Italian area? j 

A Yes, sir. i 

I 
Q And did you go alone or did you go in the company of someone i 

else? 1 

A Sergeant Gresham and an U.P. 

\ 
Q Now, let us step up here to the Prosecution Exhibit 2, and , 

point out from your barracks 665, the direction in v^hich you 

went so the Court can sec . 

A I come down this road to the intersection, right here (indi- 
cating) . 

Q You followed Lawton Road, turning at the intersection of 

Virginia Avenue and Lawton Road, and following Lawton Road ^ 
. to the Italian area past Moss Hall No 700? .{ 

A Yes, sir. 

Q All right. ^-Vhat was the first thing that you saw when you 
came to that point? 

A There was a jeep about at the intersection of the road. 

Q, ViJhat road do you mean, Virginia Avenue and Lawton Road? | 

A No, it was down farther. 

Q All right. Come and point out so v/e v/ill be sure v;hat place 
you are speaking of . 

A (indicating) . 

537 



A 



Q 



i 

1 

I 

I 

Q That is ju3t past the Mess Hall on Lawton Road? 

ii 
A Yes, sir. ' " 

Q All right. Did you or not see anything else besides the jeep 
in that vicinity? 

A There v;as a group of men gathered around. 

q, Well, tell us, was it a group of what, white men or how were 

they dressed and so forth? 

A A colored group. 

Q A group of colored soldiers? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Do you know how large a group it was? 

A It was I would say about twenty men. 

Q You would say about twenty men. V/ere, or not, any LI.P.'s 
present at that time? 

A Yes, sir. 

q. Do you remember about how many Military Police were present? 

No, sir, I don't recall. About five, I think. 

Q Did you stay there with that group of men, or did you go some- 
v;here? 

A No, sir. I proceeded down to the Italian area. 

^J^y? I 



A This M.P. asked Sergeant Gresham if he wanted him to go to 
the area with him and that I said that I would go, too. 

Q An M.P. asked Sergeant Gresham and he said he would go too? 

A Ye s . 

Q And did Sergeant Gresham go into tae area with_ the M.P.? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q And did you or not go? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, to v/hat point in the Italian area did you go? 

A Past the first large barracks and then came to a small 
barracks. 

Q You passed a large barracks and came to a small one. Now, will 

533 



i 



you step up here please. Corporal? This is Barracks 708, which 
is one barracks on Prosecution Exliibit 2, and Barracks 709 is 
another barracks on Prosecution Exhibit 2, and this is 713, v;hich 
is the orderly room. Nov; to v;hich one of these did you go? 

A To the Orderly Room. 

Q To the Orderly Room. All right. Did Sergeant Gresham go to 
the Orderly Room, also, or did he go elsewhere? 

A He went up to the Orderly Room also. 

Q, To v/hat point did the LI.P.'s proceed? 

A They went also to the Orderly Room. 

Q Nov/, after you reached the Orderly Room, did you or not see 
any colored soldiers in the vicinity of the Orderly Room? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Did you or not see any colored soldiers inside the Orderly 
Room? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Did you remain on the outside of the Orderly Room, or did you 
go inside? 

A I went inside. 

Q And after you got on the inside of the Orderly Room, v/hat, if 
anything, did you do? 

A I went into one of the smaller rooms and proceeded to help, as 
much as I could to clear the rooms and to assist as much as I 
could in helping the boys that were Injured in getting them 
into a larger room. 

Q Did the Court get that ansv/or? • . • 

Lav; Member; Not too much. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Would you read that last answer, Mr. 
Stoddard? 

(Last answer read back.) 
Q Nov; who, if anyone, did you see there that v;as injured? 
A Italian boys. 

Q '\iVhat if anything did you do in respect to assisting the Italian 
boys, in what raamaer did you assist the Italian boys? 

A As I said, there was quite a few lying in one of the small 
rooms and there v;as one laying on the floor, and I helped 
pick him up and put him in the larger room. 

q, In v;hat manner was he injured, what led you to believe he was 



injured? 

A He was laying on the floor, he v/as out, unconscious. 

Q, Nov/ will you step up here please. This is Prosecution Exhi- 
bit 3, which is a plat of the Orderly Room, this same Orderly 
Room we have been talking about. No 713. Now, this is a side 
door, known as Door A, and this is a front door, and this is 
one room, and here is a large room in the Orderly Room, Room Z 
and Room Y. Now, will you tell the Court please how you gained 
entrance to the Orderly Room? 

A Came through this door. 

Q, And that is called v;hat? 

A Game through Door E and went through B, and this is the small 
room I have mentioned before that I went into (indicating). 

Q, That is Room Y you v;ent into? 

A Yes. I helped clear the room and pick up a boy that was uncon- 
scious. 

Q All right. Now, remember that captain sitting over there on the 
end, at the far end of the court wants to hear what you have to 
say just as much as the rest of us, so keep your voice up. Now, 
after you entered the Orderly Room and went through Door E, and 
through Door B, and then into Room Y, and carried this Italian 
soldier from Room Y, where did you take him to? 

A To Room X. 

Q, Now, Corporal King, as you camo to the Orderly Room, tell the 
Court whether or net you saw any negro soldiers close to the 
Orderly Room whom you are in a position to identify? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q 'i/Vho did you see close to the Orderly Room? 

A Willie Curry. 

Q, You saw Willie Curry. Did you see anyone else? 

A Henry Jupiter. 

Q All right, now. Let's point out to the Court whore you saw 
Willie Curry and Henry Jupiter. ■ - 

A Approximately in the area of the door. 

Q, Approximately in the area of v;hat door? 

A The outside door, the door going in. 

President: Just a minute. Captain, I wonder if we could get 
the heat shut off . 

Q, You pointed to a direction in front of Door E where you saw 

540 



1 



Willie Curry and Honry Jupitor. Now, how far from Door E 
wore thoy standing v/hen you saw them? 

A Betwoon five and ton foot, 

Q Now, at what timo of tho events did you see thorn there? By 
that I moan, did you see thera there when the M.P.'s first 
arrived, or did you soo them come later after you had been 
there awhile, or at what point did you soo ■.Villio Curry and 
Henry Jupiter first standing there? 

A Vifhen I first arrived. 

Q, ■ Now, I wish you v/ould conio with mc, first, I wish you would 
point out Willie Curry, if you see him sitting among tho ac- 
cused here? 

^ (indicating) . 

Q This soldier here is V/illie Curry (indicating)? 

A Yos. 

Q Nov/, did you soo Honry Jupiter among the other accused here? 

A (indicating). 

Q This soldier is Henry Jupiter (indicating)? 

A Yos. 

Q, That is tho fourth accused from tho end of the front row? 

Law Hombor: Well, the fourth man in the front row, will you 
state your name? 

Accused: Honry Jupiter, sir. 

Q Now, have you told tho Court that you saw some negro soldiers 
inside tho Orderly Room? 

A Yes. 

Q Who was the first negro soldlor you saw inside tho Orderly Room 
that you are in a position to identify? 

A Arthur Stone . 

Q And what v/as Arthur Stone doing, or, rather, I will ask you 
first, v;here was he in tho Orderly Room? 

A As I entered Door B, I saw him standing near Door D. 

Q As you entered Door B you saw him standing near Door D? 

A Yc s . 

Q All right. Now, I wish you v/ould come with mo and see if you 
can identify Arthur Stone among tho accused in this group? 

A (indicating) . - 

541 



Q This soldier here ( indicating) ? 
A Yos. 

Q All risht. The sixth man from the end in this middle rov/. 

Corporal, did you sec anyone else there that you rccoGnized in 
the Orderly Room, and that you are in a position to identify? 

A Corporal Luther Larkin. 

q. Was that Luther Larkin, you say? 

A Yos. 

Q, Now, what is your recollection with respect to Corporal Luther 
Larkin? 

A As I entered he was standing also n..ar Door D, and he proceeded 
to v/alk out through Door D. 

Q Tov/ard what direction? 

A Toward Door A ' ■ t i 

•Q All right, now, will you come with me and see if you see Corporal 
Luthor Larkin among the accLiscd? 

A (indicating) . • 

Q Is this Corporal Luther Larkin (indicating)? 

A Yes. 

Q The sixth man from the end in the back row. All right, now, do 
you know a negro soldier by the name of '.Vallace V\[ooden? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Did you see him anywhere in the evening in question? 

A Yes, sir. -^ ■>. 

■ Q vVhere did you see hiii? 

A Standing in Door E. • . 

q, standing in Door E. Did he have anything in his hand? 

A Yes, sir. He had some sort of a stick. 

q Did he or not have occasion to have any conversation with you 
that evening? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q And will you tell the Court what you had been doing v/hon you had 
this conversation \>,'ith Wallace V/oodon? 

A Well, after I remov^-d this body, 

Q, "i/Vhat body arc you speaking of? 

542 



A This Italian soldier, from Room Y, I v;as standing near the 

doorway of Doorway B, and Wallace Vi/oodon v/as standing in Doorway 

S, and he said words to the effect that, I don't remember or 

recall his exact words, but it v/as to the effect that I had no 
right in there helping thcui. 

Q All right, nov/, let's get v/cll, before v/e go over there and 

SCO if you can identify Vifallacc V/oodon, I may ask you, do you 
know the accused, James Chandler? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Did you see the accused, James Chandler, on the occasion in quos- 
' tion? 

A Yes, sir. I believe so. 

Q 1/Vhere was he? 

A Hoar Door E. .■ 

Q At Door E? . . "--; 

A Near Door E. ; ' ' 

Q What v/as he doing? 

A Just standing. 

Q How, I believe your answer v/as you believed also the accused 
James Chandler v/as there. Arc you positive that you saw him? 

A No, sir, I aiii not, - . ' 

Q You are not positive? 

A No. 

Q Now, do you know the accused, Johnnie Ccaser? 

A Yes, sir. ■ . 

Q, Did you see him on the evening in question? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q And where did you sec him? 

A As I was coming out of Room X, I came out of Door A, and I saw 
Johnnie Ceaser? 

Law Ilember; I don't know yet just whore he did see him. 

Q State again, please, just where you saw him. 

A As I was coming out of Room X, I proceeded into Room R, and came 
out of Door A, and I sav/ Johnnie Ccaser outside of Door A, 

Q Do you know the accused Booker Thornton? 

A Yes, sir. 

543 



Q Did you or not have occasion to see Booker Thornton on tho 
Gvoning in quc>stion? 

A Yos^ sir. 

Q ■ 'NhoTO did you soc liim? 

A Standing in Door A. 

q Standing in Door A. Did the accusod, Booker Thornton, have 
occasion to have any conversation with you on the evening in 
question? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, I wish you would tell th.. Court what that conversation was? 

A On my return to my barracks I stopped in the Company street and 

as I was talking to Sergeant Aubry, he is our first Sergeant, -- 

Booker Thornton came up to me while I was standing there and ho 
soomod to be angry at mc, I don't know the reason, but he came 
up and said to me he thought ho ought to hit mo. 

q, All right. Will you step over hero. Corporal and let us see 
first if you can identify the accusod V/allace Wooden? 

A (indicating) . 

Q, Is this the soldier, Wallace Wooden (indicating)? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q The fifth soldier in tho front row from the end. Now, let's 
see if you can find the accusod, Johnnie Ceascr, axnong this 
group of soldiers? 

A (indicating) . 

Q Is this the soldier (indicating)? 

A Yos, sir. 

Q, Now, will you come around here and soo If you can find tho 
accusod, Booker Thornton, and can Identify him? 

A (indicating) . 

Q This is tho soldier (indicating)? ' . • ■ ■ 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, will you come around and see if you can Identify, you say 

this is the soldier, Booker Thornton? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q All right. Will you come and have a seat, please. Did you 

ever hear, strike that. Did you know the accused, David Wal- 
ton? 

A Yes^ sir. 

544 



Q Did you cvor hoar the accused, David V/alton, make any statomcnt? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, "i/Ycll, lot mc finish that question first, make any statement 

as to his knowledge or participation in the incident in the 
Italian area? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q '.Vhcre were you v;hcn that statement v/as made? . 

A In my barracks. 

Q And when v;as it made? 

A The morning after the incident. 

Q, The morning after the incident? 

A Yes, sir. 

Lav; Member; It is iinder stood that this statement is binding 
only upon accused, Vfelton. 

Q, Yes, sir. '^Vhat did you hear if anything the accused, V/alton, 
say? 

A It was words to the effect that he was in the fight. 

Defense: Nov/, if the Court, please, I am going to object to 
that answer and move that It be stricken, '''hat this witness may con- 
clude as to v/hat his v/ords were or the effect of them as to v/hat 7al- 
ton said certainly is not adraissible evidence. If he is going to 
bring out, v;ell, let us got his exact v/ords. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, he said it was words to the effect 
that he v/as in the fight. 

Defense: Well, now, I move that be stricken as to v;hat his con- \ 
elusion was as to vi?hat one of these accused might have said and it ^ 
is certainly not admissible before this Court. 

Lav; Member; I don't think that is a conclusion, Hovifevor, Corpo- 
ral, arc you able to give us the exact v;ords that the accused Walton 
said to you? , . 

The Witness; No, sir. 

Lav; Member; i/ell, v/ill you give us as best you can the v;ords i 
in substance, the conversation that you had v;ith 'jValton? | 

The Yifitness; I did not have the conversation v;ith him. I just ^ 
heard him talking. 

Lav; Member: Vftio v;as Walton v;ith at the time ho v;as talking? 

The Witness: With some of the boy a gathered around the heater 
in the barracks. 

545 



BS" 



Lav/ I.iember. Did you. hear any other conversation at that time? 

The Witness, No, sir. 

Lav/ Member; Well, give us your best recollection of the con- 
versation or the statoinent that you heard the accused, '.Yalton, say? 

The vVitness. They v/ere talking about the incident that 

happened the night before and .Valton said, ho said, similar to this, 

I am not exact, but he had been in the fight and that, I can't 

recall his exact words. 

Q, Are you or not positive that he said words in substance, ''l v/as 
in the fight." Are you positive of that much? 

Defense. Objected to as leading and suggestive. 

Law Member; That is leading. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, he just got through saying he heard 
him say v/ords to the effect that he v/as in the fight and now I am 
just asking him if that is positive, or if he is positive of that 
much. 

Lav/ Member; Well, I think the question was put in in an ob- 
jectionable form. Arc you positive you heard this conversation you 
have just related about? 

The Witness; Yes, sir. 

Lav/ Member: There isn't any doubt about it in your mind? 

The Witness. No, sir. 

Q, Do you remember whether or not it v;as raining or v/hat the v/eather 
v/as like on the evening in question, that is on the evening of 
August 14, 1944? 

A It wasn't raining, 

Defense (interposing); Objected to, if the Court please. The 
answer is not responsive. The v/itness vras asked if he know v/hat the 
weather was; he was not asked to ansv/er whether it v/as raining or not. 

Lav/ Member : The question is, do you knov/? 

A No. 

Lav/ Member; Do you knov ivhether or not, or do you know what | 

the weather v/as that night? | 

The Witness: No. ,■ ■ • ' 

Q, Do you knov/ whether or not it v/as raining on that night? 

A No. 

Law Member: All right. The answer to that v/as v/hat nov/? It 
v/as raining or he didn't knov/? 

546 



Q, V/cll, what do you mean by your answer? 

A It v;as not raining. 

Q All right. Now, Corporal, did any ambulancos come whllo you 
woro still there? 

A I can't ansv/cT that question directly, sir. 

Q foil, did you sec any ambulancos, is v/hat I moan? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q And v;cre you still in or around the Orderly Room when the am- 
bulances came, or had you left? 

A fell, they was coming as I ¥/as v/alking back up the road. 

Q Thoy v/oro coming as you v;erc v/alking back up the road. Now, 
v/hat road is that? 

A Virginia Avenue. 

Q Well, where did you go after you left that area? 

A I returned to my barracks. 

Q You returned to your barracks? 

A Yes. 

Q I wish you would step up here. Corporal, and see if you see the 
accused, David Walton, among the accused? 

A (indicating). 

Q That is Uavid Walton, the sixth man in the first row? 

A Yes. 

Q Come and point to him so v/o will be sure . 

A (Indicating). 

Q All right. The sixth soldier in the front row. 

Trial Judge Advocate; The Prosecution has no further questions. 

President: Cross-examination. 

Defense: If the Court, please, I have not had an opportunity 
of talking with this witness, and I have some notes here, and I 
wonder if we might have a five-minute recess? 

President: We will have a five-minute recess. If any of the 
accused want to go outside for any purpose they can make arrangements 
to take them out now. The rest won't go out. Wc will remain seated. 

(A five-minute recess was taken.) 

547 



Defcnso: I am ready to continue, if the Court, please. 

Law Member. Are all of the accused present? 

President: All right. Let us have them brought in. Court 
will bo in order. Wo will proceed. 

Defense: All right. We arc ready, sir. 

President: Do you v/ant to make a comment? 

Trial Judge Advocate; Let the record show that each of the 
accused is present and all members of the Court arc present, and 
the personnel representing the accused as well as the personnel 
representing the Prosecution are present. 

• CROSS-EXAMINATION 
Questions by Defense; 

Q Corporal King, what time did you go to bed on the evening of 
August 14, 1944? 

A I am not sure of the time. 

Q Well, about what time? 

A I am not sure . 

Q Well, was it about nine o'clock, or ten o'clock? 

A I am not sure of the time because we was checking our duffle 
bags and had no recognition of the time. 

Q You were packing your duffle bags in preparation to making or go- 
ing to an over-seas destination the following day, weren't you? 

A Yes. 

Q Had you been out of your barracks that evening at all since you 
had had yo\ir supper? 

A No, sir. 

Q You had not been out at all? 

A No, sir. 

Q And you left your barracks and went out at a time when r. jeep 
arrived in front of Barracks 719? 

A No, sir; v/hen Sergeant Thomas came in. 

Q When Sergeant Thomas caiuo in. Well, how long was it after you 
got outside the barracks before this jeep arrived? 

A The jeep had come down already. I was lying in my bed and I 
saw the jeep come dovm and then Sergeant Thomas, about four 
minutes or five minutes after, he came in after I saw the 
jeep. 

548 



Q i'lfhilG you v/orc laying in your bed, v/hcrc did you sec tho jeep, 
going down the hill? 

A I saw it going dovm the hill. 

Q Tov/ards the Italian area? 

A I can't saj exactly towards the Italian area, hut it stopped 
just before it got to Virginia Avenue. 

Q It stopped just before it got to Virginia Avenue. Well, nov/, 
. will you corae over here and look at Prosecution Exhibit 2, 
please, and tell me just about v/her^ it was that it stopped? 

A Just about here (indicating). 

Q You are indicating that it stopped in the intersection of Vir- 
ginia Avenue and Law ton Road? 

A Yes. 

Q Well, was there anything peculiar about this jeep that you were 
able to identify it as being an H.P. jeep, or otherwise? 

•A No, sir, I can't say. 

1^ Did you sec any men get out of the jeep? 

A I don't recall. 

Q When the jeep stopped in the intersection of Lav/ton Road and 
Virginia Avenue, you could sec it from your barracks? 

A Yes. 

Q Barracks 719? 

A Yes. 

Q, Then at that time were there quite a niunbor of men around in 
the vicinity of that intersection? 

A I don't recall that. I can't say there were, beca.usc I am not 
sure, 

Q You haven't any recollection at this time whether there were a 
large number of men in the intersection of Lawton Road and 
Virginia Avenue or not? 

A No, sir. 

Q Were there a large number of men in front of your barracks 
No 719? 

Law Member: His barracks is not 719. 

Q Oh, 665. Well, it v/as from your barracks, 665, that you saw 
the jocp, then? 

A Yes. 

549 



Q Now, v/crc there stroet lights dov;n thoro in that vicinity of 
Virginia Avonuo and Lawton Road? 

A I don't particularly remember. 

Q You haven't any particular recollection whether there v/ere 
street lights there or not? 

A No. 

Q Could you sec the jeep in that intersection or could you see the 
lights? 

A I saw the lights. I saw it stopped. I couldn't sec the lights 
because the lights was forward. 

Q But you could see the jeep plainly? 

A Yc! 



i k> • 



Q But you cannot recall v/hcthcr there v/oro a number of soldiers in 
the vicinity of the jeep? 

A No, sir. 

Q Wore there a nximber of colored soldiers in front of Barracks 719? 

A No, sir, I don't recall that. 

Q, Nov/, at the time you wont dovm to the intersection of Virginia 

Avenue and Lawton Road, had the jeep left, or was it still there? 

A j±3 I ccjue down there, it was in this vicinity (indicating). 

Q ^is you came do^OTi it was in the vicinity of Lawton Road, in the 
vicinity of the southwest corner of Building No 700? 

Yes. 

Q Well, now, what route did you take in going down there? 

A From my barracks I came down Lawton Road into this road here, 
(indicating). 

Q You followed Lawton Road all the v/ay down to v/her*. thu jeep 
was? 

A Yes. 

Q By the way, what do you -understand, what do you mean v/hen you 
say, or v/hen you use the term "Italian area"? 

A After these Italian v/ork companies were brought in, that was 
the area the Italian troops v/ore in. 

Q They brought the Italians in v/hcre? 

A There used to be some in those barracks here (indicating). 

550 



Q Do I under stcnd tho Italian area Is bounded by Wyomlns Avonuo 
end Lav/ ton Road? 

A Yes. 

Q Now, as you left your barracks and came dovm Lavvton Road, to 
where this jeep was, did you see a largo n-umber of colored 
soldiers at any place betv/cen yoxir barracks and the place v/hero 
the jeep was? 

A A group of soldiers v/as gathered around tho jeep. That is the 
only place. 

Q There was a group of colored soldiers gathered around the jeep? 

A Yes. 

Q, Do you have any recollection of there being colored soldiers 
any place along your route that you followed? 

A I didn't particularly notice. 

Q Now, at the time you left your barracks, who v/as in the barracks? 

A Do you want me to name tho people? 

Q Ye; 



: Cj . 



A Sergeant Alfred Parks. He slept across diagonally from me. And 
there was Wright and Alfred Hughes and Alfred Coleman and the 
boys that slept behind the stove. I slept in the second bunk 
or bed from the door. 

Q Who were those boys behind the stove? 

A Johnnie Winthrop; Johnnie Aubry and David Y/alton and some cooks. 

Q, Who were the cooks? 

A Jessie Jackson, and Willie Scott. There was Hayes, and Willie 
Halsey, and Jack Mack. That is all I recall. 

Q, Now, when you got down to the place v/here the jeep was parked 
at Lav/ton Road, v/ere there M.P.'s in the jeep? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Hov/ many? " ' 

A Four. I don't recall the exact number. 

Q, Do you know v/ho any of them were by name? 

A No, sir. 

Q, '.Veil, were there any colored M.P.'s around? 

A No, sir. One boy had an M.P. brassard, an armband on. 

551 



Q But he was a colored M.P.? 

A Yes, sir. j 

Q And he was wearing an arm brassard and had an 1.1. P. club? 

A Yes. 

Q "Who was that? 

A John Pinkney. 

Law Member. Who v/as that? 

The Witness: John Pinkney. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is spelled P-i-n-k-n-e-y (spelling) 
if I am right? 

Defense: That Is right. 

Q Who else besides John Pinkney do you recall that was standing 
in the vicinity of the jeep? 

A I don't recall anyone else particularly. You see, right near 
the Sergeant there v/as so many M.P.'s around. We saw Sergeant 
Gresham and he asked him if he would go into the area with him, 
but we didn't stay over four or five minutes. 

Q Were there others of the Company dovm there also? 

A Others of the Company? 

Q Yes, other colored soldiers that went down with the M.P.'s. 

A Pinkney went before me. . 

Q But were there other colored soldiers that went down with the 
M.P.' s? 

A No, sir. 1 

Q You don't recall that? 

A No, sir. ^ 

Q About how many men were standing around the jeep wfhen you arrived? 

A About twenty, tv;enty-f ive . 

Q But other than Pinkney and Gresha^a, you cannot testify to this 
Court who any of them were? 

A No, sir. 

Q Now, how many M.P.'s were there? 

A I don't recall the exact nvunber, it was four or five. 

552 



Q T\fell, what happened to the crowd then after you went down there? 
Did the crowd all go down there with you to the Italian area? 

A No, sir. 

Q Yihj didn't they go down with you? 

A There was M.P.'s keeping them back and I believe there was three 
there and one proceeded to the Italian area and others stayed to 
keep the colored boys back. 

Q You mean three stayed there? 

A Wo; one went with Sergeant Gresham, and one stayed with, 

Plnkney. 

Q Well, wasn't it a fact some of your colored Sergeants asked 
some of the I-i.P.'s to help keep the colored boys back? 

A Yes. 

Q, You heard that? 

A Yes. 

Q And the colored Sergeants vifore around there in that group, 
weren't they? 

A Yes. 

Q Now, I believe you stated that you saw Henry Jupiter dovm there? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, I wish you would come over here and shov/ us on the map v/herc it 
was he was standing. I want you to show the Court v/here it 
was you sav/ Plenry Jupiter. 

A Standing right in here (indicating); I can't recall exactly. 

Q Give us your best recollection. 

A About ten or fifteen feet from the Orderly Room. 

Q, You think it was ten or fifteen feet in front of Door E? 

A On the side here. 

Q You indicate about where it was on Prosecution Exhibit 2. 

A (indicating) . 

Q, About right in there? 

A Yes. 

Q And your initials are R.K.? 

A Yes. 

Q I will mark your initials R.K. where that was. You are positive 

553 



about seeing Henry Jupiter there? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q There isn't any question in your mind about it? 
A No, sir. 

Defense: 3y the way, if the Court, please, at this time I want 
to move to strike all of this witness's testimony on direct examina- 
tion with respect to James Chandler. 

Trial Judge Advocate: If the Court, please, I think the ques- i 
tions and answers were entirely proper. The question was if he 
saw him and he said he did, and then I asked him if he was positive 
ana he said he was not, and that is the way it is remainin'^ in the ' 
record and, certainly, the Prosecution is not insisting on'^positivo- 
ly identifying him standing there. 

Law Member: Is that satisfactory i" 

Defense; No. I move the testimony be stricken. 

Law Member; As I recall, I thought he said he saw Chandler 
standing near Door E, but ho was not positive. If the Major de- 
sires I will strike that about that he thought he saw him standing 
near Door E. 

Defense; I will further ask the Member to instruct the members 
of the Court to strictly disregard all such testimony as that which 
v/as stricken. • 

] 

Law Member: That instruction is always a standing instruction j 

and need not be repeated Major. 1 

Q Do you remember. Corporal, a week or ten days ago when Captain 
Noyd and myself wore down at Camp Jordan questioning some of 
the i/Vitnesses? 

A Yes. = ' 3 

Q You did not see me? • 

A No. . 

1 

Q But Captain Noyd questioned you about this case? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q I will ask you if Captain Noyd did not ask you the following 

questions to v/hlch you gave the following answers. "Q Did you 
see Henry Jupiter? and you said "No." Did you so testify? 

A- I don't believe so. 

^ You are positive of that? 7/cll, just so there won't bo any 
question about your memory, I will repeat the question and 
answer oefore that and after. "Q Did you see Sergeant Hurks' 
A No, sir, I didn't. Q Did you see Henry Jupiter? A No, sir. 

554 



"Q Do you knov; Henry Jupiter? A Yes, sir. They could have 
been there, but I didn't see them." Did you so testify? 

A It could have been, but I don't recall so testifying. 

Q You don't recall so testifying? 

A No, sir. 

Q I want you to come over here again and tell us just exactly 
whore you saw Arthur Stone? 

A Standing near Door E. 

Q Will you put your finger there? 

A (indicating). 

Q About this area. That is on Prosecution's Exhibit 3, and I will 
mark it "R.K.-l," if the Court please. Now, do you have any 
recollection at that same time at Camp Jordan of Captain Noyd 
asking you about Arthur Stone? 

A Yes^ sir. 

Q You remember him asking you about Arthur Stone? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q I will ask you if Captain Woyd did not ask you the following quea- 
tion to v^hich you gave the following answer. "Q, Did you see any 
colored M.P.'s down there? A No, sir; just one boy helping John 
Pinkney, he was helping them. Q Did you sec any other colored 
boys there? A Arthur Stone was there. Q Was he doing anything? 
A No, sir. Q Did he have any kind of a weapon or stick? A No 
sir. Then, Wallace 'J\roodon was there. Q, Did you see him doing any- 
thing? A No, sir. Q Was ho carrying a weapon or stick? A I 
believe he had a stick. Q Just exactly whore v/ere they? A 
Wooden was standing in the side door. Vifhen I came out the front 
door I saw Stone just outside the area, then I saw Johnnie Coasor. 

A No, sir; I said I saw Stone walking out of that door. 

Q My question vi/as first, did you so testify in the manner that I 
have just read to you? 

A I don't recall testifying to that effect. 

Q Your answer is "no," then, that you did not? 

A No. , 

Q All right. At the time you got dovm there in the Italian area, 
the fight v;as all over, wasn't it? 

A I would say it v/as. 

Q It v;as all over? • • 

A Ye s . ■ ' ■ 

Q And v/hcn you got into the area, did you go immediately to the 

555 





Orderly Room? , • 


A 


To the Italian area? •: 


Q 


Yos. . >..; ■ ■ ■-; - 


A 


Ye s . 


Q 


And how long a period of time did you reqialn inside the Orderly 
Room? 


A 


Five or ten minutes. 


Q 


Then after you cune out of tho Orderly Room, where did you go? 


A 


Returned to my area, to my barracks. 


Q 


You returned directly to your barracks? 


A 


Yes, sir. . '' \ 


Q 


Where v^as it you saw John Ceaser? 


A 


As ho was coming out of the Orderly Room. 


Q 


Outside of Door A? 


A 


Yes, sir. 


Q 


Did you see Ceaser doing anything? 


A 


No, sir. . -' 


Q 


Did he have a stick? 


A 


No, sir. 


Q 


Did he have any other weapon? 


A 


Not that I noticed. 


Q 


Now, v/here was it that you saw Luther Larkin? Lot us go over 
here on the exhibit again. . 


A 


When I first came into the Orderly Room he was standing in this 
vicinity (indicating). 


Q 


iVhon you first came into the Orderly Room he v/as standing about 
here (indicating)? . . 


A 


Over here (indicating) . . 


q 


All right. I will mark that "R.Iv.-2," on Prosecution Exhibit 
No 3. Now, he was in that general vicinity? 


A 


Yes. 


Q 


Where else did you see him? 




556 



A As I was returning to the barracks he was talking to Ser- 
geant Aubry and I sav; him close to Barracks 719 on the govern- 
ment street. 

Q After you loft the Italian area and was going back to your 
barracks you sav; Sergeant Aubry talking to, 

A (interposing) No, sir; I was talking to Sergeant Aubry. 

Q \iVhilc you were talking to Sergeant Aubry in front of Barracks 
719 at that time you vv-ere in front of Barracks 719? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q I v;ill ask you if it is not a fact that dovm at Camp Jordan, 

strike that, will you? You remember Captain Noyd 

talking to you and asking you questions about Luther Larkin? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q I will ask you if it is not a fact that Captain Noyd asked 

you the following questions and you gave the following answers. 
"Q "vVhero did you see Larkin that first time? A He was 
down here. Q V/hat do you moan by ''down hero"? A 
was coming out of the Orderly Room he was in front of 

Q 713 is the Orderly Room? A 
the Orderly Room I saw him there. 



As I 
the 
As I 

He was 



Orderly Room here 

was coming out of 

not very far from the front door of the Orderly Room. Q Are 

you positive it was Larkin? A I couldn't say for sure 

but I believe it v/as him, but I know I did see him up here." 



Trial Judge Advocate , 
not very far from where? 



Excuse me, I didn't get that. He was 



Defense: I will repeat that. "Ho was not very far from the 
front door of the Orderly Room. Q Are you positive it v/as 
Larkin? A I couldn't say for sure but I believe it was him, but 
I know I did. see him up hero," meaning betv;oon Barracks 719 and 
700. 



Trial Judge Advocate, Thank you. 

Q (continuing) Now, is it not a fact that 
and ansv;ers, or the questions asked you 
the ansv/ers you gave to those questions 
questioning you about this matter? 



those are the questions 
by Captain Noyd, and 
at the time he was 



(continued to next page.) 



557 



A Will you road the first part of that again? 

Q, vVhorc did you seo Luther Larkin the first time? 

A Well, I couldn't, he could not have asked me that question, 

Q My question was, did you testify In the manner I have just read 
to you as to those questions and answers? 

A Not, complete. To some of it, I could say, yes, and some of it, 
I could say, no. 

Q iVhat part didn't you so testify? 

A Tho question was: v/hore did I seo Luther Larkin the first time, 
and I couldn't have answered it that v;ay, that question, the 
first time, I could not have told him I saw him the first time 
because it was after I sav/ him tv;ice. 

Q, You arij quite positive in your ov/n mind. But, you don't remember 
saying you could not be sure it was Luther Larkin? 

A As I came into th.^ Orderly Room I sav/ Larkin and I came back to 
the barracks, 

Q (interposing) '-Veil, I will ask you again, didn't you tell Captain 
Noyd that you could not be sure you saw Luther Larkin near the 
Orderly Room? 

A I don't recall testifying to that. 

Q, Nov/, this conversation that you say you overheard about David 
Walton, v/hat day v/as that? 

A It v/as thu morning after the disturbance. 

Q, And where did the conversation take place? 

A Near the heater in our barracks. 

Q, li/ho all v/as engaged in that conversation? 

A I couldn't recall. I just heard, 

Q (interposing) Now, my question to you. Corporal, was, who all 
was engaged in this conversation, do you knov/? 

A No . . 

Q, All right. You don't know who made the statement . 

A I believe it v/as David fJalton. 

Q Are you sure it was David Walton nov/? 

A I am not sure. I bulieve it v/as. 

Q Did you see David Walton there? 

558 



A Yo3, sir; I saw him. 

Q, Did you sec him at the exact time he spoke? 

A No, sir. 

Q You didn't. And there could bo some mistake in your mind 

whether It v/as his voice you heard or somebody else' s,couldn' t 
there? 

A Yes, sir. 

Defense; That Is all. 

FiEDIRECT SXAMINATIOII 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate. 

Q Just a few questions with respect to the testimony of David 

vValton you have just given. I v;ish you would tell the Court on 
■what basis you arrived at your statement as to whom this was 
coming from, as to who it was? 

A I noticed him when I hoard this statement, and I was getting up 
and I believe it was him. 

Q Now, why do you believe it vi;as him, on what basis do you believe 
it v/as him? 

A Because I raised up out of bed and he was the first man I saw, 
and I boliovod he was talking. 

Q Did anybody else talk, or was anybody else talking? Did you see 
him talking v/hen you raised up out of bed? 

A No, sir. 

Q Well, hov; many \ieve present? 

A To testify, I don't recall how many ¥/ere there. 

Q Do you know who the others were there besides David Walton? 

A No, sir. 

Q Do you know David V/alton's voice? 

A Yes. . • 

Q Do you know it well? 

A Yes, sir; I believe I do. 

Q Did you know his voice well on the morning of August 15, when 
this conversation took place? 

A I believe I could distinguish it from other voice. 

559 



President: Speak up a little louder, please. 

Q Yes, speak a little louder so the Court will hear you. ".Yell, 
are you able to tell the Court whose voice it was making that 
statement? 

Defense; If the Court, please, he testified already he could 
not be sure. 

Law Member; Objection overruled, 

Q Are you able to tell the Court whose voice it was made that 
statement? 

A David Walton's. 

Q Now, first tell me, are you able to tell whoso voice it was made 
that statement? . . 

A Yes. 

Q All right; v/hose voice was It? 

A David .Valton's. 

Q Are you certain of the voice now/? 

A No . 

■■> 

Trial Judge Advocate; Major, do you have any objection to my 
seeing the statement you read from? I v;ant to see what testimony if 
any there was v/ith reference to Luther Larkin. 

Defense. I don't know whether I should be assisting you here. 
No, counsel, I don't think I am going to let you see it. I think you 
may see it when I produce ray stenographer to testify as to what the 
testimony was. -. _ .: , 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right. 

Defense: I v/ould be very happy to let you see it at that time. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I would be very happy to see it now, but 
if you don't want to let mo see it, all right, it is your privilege. 
The Prosecution has no further questions, if it please the Court. 

RECROSS EXAiUNATION 

Questions by Defense: / 

Q What was there. King, about David Walton's voice that is differ- 
ent from any of the other men's voices? By the way, who else's 
voice do you know around your Company there? 

A I would say that I could recognize the voice of David Walton 
because I saw him standing, 

Q (interposing) Vifhose voices do you knov; around your Company tiiere? 

560 



A Sergeant Hurks. 

Q You are familiar with the voice of a good many men up there, 
aren't you? 

A Not too many. 

Q You and David Valton are particular friends? 

A No, sir; not particular. Wo slept in the barracks and v;e have 
had conversations. . 

Q, Who else has slept in your barracks? 

A As I mentioned, some cooks, but they were hardly ever there. 

Q .'/ho slept over you? 

A I slept on top. 

Q "^T/ho slept under you? 

A Sergeant Veoder. 

Q As a matter of fact, you took Sergeant Veeder's field jacket 

and walked down there and you got some blood on it that night? 
And you permitted then to arrest him didn't you? 

A . Ye s . 

Q Did you tell the authorities there was any blood on it? 

A I never noticed there was anj^- blood on it until they called my 
attention to it. 

Q As a matter of fact, you would like to have them arrest him and 
accuse him in this matter, wouldn't you? 

A As I said, I didn't notice there was any blood on it. 

Q, Vtoat particular thing was there about it that you knew about 
David" 7/alton' 3 voice that you are so sure it was him? 

A Nothing. 

Defense; That is all. 

Law Member; Did you naino certain soldiers v/ho were asleep In 
Barracks 668? 

Trial Judge Advocate; 665. 

Law Member; At the time you left there to go to the Italian 
area that night? 

The Witness: Yes, sir. 

Law Member; Will you name them over again? 

The '.Vitness; Sergeant Parks; Arthur Hinch; Otis Wright; 

561 



Arthur Coleman, That is all I recall right around my bed. 

Law Member: Did you mention David V/alton was asleep v/hen 
you went to go to the Italian area? 

iVitness^ No, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate; May I point out there were a number 
of colored soldiers mentioned by this vi/itness v;ho slept in the 
same barracks that he did see, and upon counsel asking the ques- 
tion ho mentioned some eight or nine who slept there v/ith him 
and David Walton was mentioned as one of those. 

EXALIINATIOII BY TrIE COURT 

Questions by Law Memb e r : 

Q, When you were questioned by Captain Noyd, were you sv;orn as 
a witness down there? 

A No, sir. 

Q, 'Was there a stenographer thore taking down what you said? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Was anybody else present besides Captain Noyd, the steno- 
grapher, and yourself? 

A No, sir. 

Q, Defense; ?or the Court's information, I think at that 
particular time, that was the first stage -- 

Law iaembor; (Interposing) \i[hat was that? 

Defense: I think that was at the first stage of our exam- 
ination and I had been called up to Headquarters by the Chief 
of Staff, - 

Trial Judge Advocate; (Interposing) Now, I don't think 
statements like that are a part of the evidence in this record 
and I think it ought to be stricken. 

Q, Do you recall the names of any l/IP's In the Orderly Room 
when you got there that night? 

A 'jVhite MP's? 

Q, Ye s . 

A No, I didn't knovi/ any of them. 

Q, Did you tell us how many white MP's v/ore in the Orderly 
Room vrtien you got there? 

A I believe there v;as two. 

Q IIovi/ many v/hite i.IP's in addition to those two did you sec in 

562 



and about the Italian area? 

A I don't recall seeing any. 

Q Did you see any white M.P.'s around on the outside? 

A No, I don't recall it. 

Q Was this Sergeant Thomas an M.P.? 

A No, sir. 

Q Is he white? 

A No, sir. 

Q A colored Sergeant? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q What Company is he in? 

A He was in 650th Port Company, also. 

Q In the same Company you were? 

A No, sir, not now. Well, yes, 

Q Did he get out of that jeep? 

A No, sir; the jeep did not stop in front of our barracks. 

Law Member: That's all. 
Questions by the President: 

Q Hov»r long have you known Willie Curry? 

A Not so long, sir. He wasn't in our Company. 

Q Had you kno?m him at all before the evening in question? 

A No, sir. I identified him by a picture that was shown to me, 

Q Hov; long had you known Henry Jupier? 

A Ever since the Company activited. 

Q Hov/ long ago v\fas that? 

A I believe he arrived there somewhere in February. 

Q How long had you knovm Arthur Stone? 

A As long as he has been there. 

Q How long has that been? 

A Since February. 

563 



Q How long have you knovm Corporal Luther Larkin? 

A He came there, I don't recall the exact month, but I think it 
was about a month I had known him. 

Q About a month before August 14th? 

A Yes. . 

Q Dd)d you knov/ him by name and by face? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Hov; long have you known Wallace Wooden? 

A Since he has been in the Company. 

Q How long is that? 

A Since i^'ebruary . 

Q, How long have you known Johnnie Ceaser? 

A Since he has been in the Company. 

Q How long is that? 

A Since February. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Speak up, please. 

Q How long have you knovm Booker Thornton? 

A Since his arrival in February, also. - 

Q And David Walton? 

A Also since his arrival. 

Q Is that in February? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Wow, you testified on cross-examination that there v;ere certain 
people in the barracks v/hen you left. It is not clear in my 
mind yet v/hether all those people that you named at that time 
were in the barracks that you left at that time, or whether you 
named the people that just slept in the barracks ordinarily. 
Now, will you name over the people for me that you Icnow that 
were in the barracks v/hen you left there on the evening of 
August 14th? 

A Arthur Plinch. 

Q You knov; that Arthur Hinch was in the barracks? 

A And Sergeant Parks. 

Q You know that he v\fas in there? 

664 



A Yos. That is all that I am positive that v/as in tho barracks. 

Q That is all that you aro positive vvere in the barracks. All 
right. Aiid the other people that you naraod then vi/ere people 
that slept in there? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q But you don't knovv whether they v/ere there all that time or not, 
or at that time? 

A No, sir. You sec I slept in the second bed from the door and 
I did not have any reason to go back farther in the barracks 
v;herG the other people slept. 

Q Nov?, you said that your barracks xievo 655? ■ '■ ' 

A Yes, sir. • 

Q What barracks did the 650th Port Corapany occupy? 

A We was occupying the front half of Barracks 665. It was par- 
titioned in hair. 

Q You occupied the front half? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q And v/hat other barracks vms in that arrangement or in that area? 

A 719 and 668. 

Q 719 and 563? , - 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Those were all the barracks that v/ore occupied by the 650th 
Port Company? 

A Yes. 

President. I have no further questions. Aro there any further 
questions by the Court? If not, the witness is excused. 

Defense; May I ask one more qviestion, if the Court, please? 

RECROSS EX/u.iINATION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q I think you testified, Corporal, after you left the Italian area 
and came up in front of Barracks 719, you had some conversation 
vi?ith Sergeant Aubry? 

A Yos. 

Q, And at that time you saw Luther Larlcin around in front of 719? 
A Yes. 



Q ".1/ho else did you see in front of 719? 

A I reracmber seeing Booker Thornton. 

Q All right, Booker Thornton. Yfno else? You have no recollection 
of seeing anyone else? 

A Sergeant Aubry. 

Q Yes. Hov; long v/as that after you v/ere, after you had come up 

from the Orderly Room? 

A- I had walked straight up there and I met Sergeant Aubry and then 
I contintxed to my Barracks after my conversation. 

Q That v;as just a matter of a minute or two or three minutes, then? 

A Yes. ■ " 

Defense : That ' s all . 

REDIRECT SXAIVIINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate. 

Q State whether or not at that particular time when you just told 
the Court of this conversation vv'lth Booker Thornton and 
•Sergeant Aubry v/as present, it \vaG at that particular time you 
mot Luther Larkin, when you mentioned you saw himf 

A It v/as at that time. ' . 

Defense: Nov/, I move to strike that. 

President: .i/hat is the grotind for your objection? 

D^^fense: On my recross examination I wont into nothing at all 
as to any conversation vjith Booker Thornton, and I objected on the 
ground it v/as not proper redirect examination. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I merely fixed the time, that is all I 
did. 

Lav/ Member: The objection Is overruled and the motion denied. 

Trial Judge Advocate: No further questions. 

President: The Court v/ill take a 15-minute recess androconvene 
at seventeen minutes to eleven o'clock. 

(Court recessed at 10.28 a.m., and reconvened at 10:43 a.m.) 

President: Prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Defense ready? 

Defense: Defense is ready, sir. 

566 



'rcsidont: Court will corao to order. 

*l!rial Judgo Advocato; Lot the record shov/ that all the members 
oi' tile Court are pro sent, that all the accused are present, and all 
pii'»#Onnol ropresontin^ the defense, as well as all members represcnt- 
Uic: the Prosecution are present. I vi/ill call Sergeant Gresham, 

(Sergeant Robert Gresham, Headquarters, Headquarters Detachment, 
Qi^jip Jordan, a witness for the Prosecution, was sworn and testified 
i:.s follows; ) 

DIRECT EXAI/IINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocato: 

Q, State 31-our name, grade, organization, and station. 

A Sergeant Robert S Gresham;, Headquarters, Headqxiartors Detachment, 
Caiap Jordan . 

Q Sergeant Greshain, I want you to speak loud and distinctly so 

each meciber of the Court can hear you. Were you ever station- 
ed at Fort Lav/ton? 



-i 



■■1 



A I v/a s . I 

Q ".Vhen? 

A Up until about August the 15th, '*. 

i 
Q Till about August the 15th. Noro you stationed at i^ort Lawton 
on the night of August 14, 1944? 

i 

A I was, eir, ; . 

Q Do you recall the incident when some negro soldiers were in- -" 
volvcd in the matter that took place in the Italian area at \ 
Port Lawton that night? i 

A I do. 

Q, Where had you boon on the evening of August 14th, prior to the 
time you know of this incident? 

A I accompanied a friend of mine to the gate that night . 

q. iVhat gate? 

! 
A The east gate. 

Q vVho v/as that? 

A Joan Chappell. . 

Q And did you return then to the general vicinity of your barracks 
after you had completed your mission of conducting Miss Joan 
Chappell to the gate? 

A vifell, I did not Immediately return to my barracks. I returned 

367 



to the neighborhood of my barracks. 

Q, In v/hat barracks did you stay? 

A 719. 

Q Now, as you got to the vicinity of your barracks, state whether 
or not your attention v/as attracted to anything? 

A Yes J sir. I heard a commotion dovm around my area, and I just 
took it for granted the boys was having some pranks with each 
other. 

Q, Nov/, speak up. 

A (continuing) I heard a large commotion do\ini in the area, and 

I just figured the boys was having a little fun among themselves 
because they was leaving the next morning. I didn't pay any 
attention at all. 

Q After that, did the cormnotion continue? 

A Yes, sir; it did. 

Q Vifell, v/hat did you do? 

A lYell, I was standing there talking to a friend of mine, and then 
all of a sudden a boy run out of the barracks standing near me 
and I heard him holler "Italians" and so when I hoard him mention 
something about the Italians I v/ent dovm, 

Q (interposing) Now, just a minute. Lot us get the name of this 
friend v/ith whom you v/ere talking. 

A His last name is all I knov/, is Davis. He had been to the gate 
accompanying mc with Miss Chappcll and her sister. 

Q After you were talking v;ith Davis, v;hat happened next, or v/hat 
happened during the time you vi/ere talking v/ith Davis? 

A Corporal King came out of the barracks. 

Q Do you know his first name? 

A -"H chard, Richard King. He came out of the barracks as I was 
standing there and started dovm the street and I asked him 
v/hat v/as v/rong, and he said he didn't knov/ and at the time 
there v/as a vehicle coming dov/n there and wc arrived dov/n there 
in front of Barracks 719 at about the same time and vi/o asked the 
boys what v/as going on and by the time we found out what v/as 
going on, v/hy, the iJ.P.'s v/ore there and they said they had 
taken care of everything. 

Q Did you thereafter have occasion to go into the Italian area? 

A I did, sir. 

Q Hov/ did that come about? 

568 



A Well, a lot of the '.i.P.'s ;vore standing aro-und trying to find 
out v/hat it was all about, 'J-'horo was one of our boys had an 
M.P. brassard on. 

Q kVho was that? ' • 

A Private John Pinknoy. 

Q All right, go ahead. ' 

A Ho v/as v/orklng with the !l,P.'s that night and they told every 

one to stay back frojji dov/n there, that they wore going dov/ntiiere 
to break it up and the Sergeant asked if I v/as with the Company 
and would I go down with them and help bring any of the boys 
back, and I told hlra I would. 

Q Did you or not accompany the Sergeant of the M.P.'s into the 
Italian area? 

A I did. 

Q, How, v/ill you come over hero wl'th me and I v;ant you to point out, 
or, I want to point out to you on Prosecution Exhibit 2 that 
this road running along here (indicating) is the Lav/ton Road;you 
testified you were at Barracks 719 and here is a barracks in the 
Italian area and also the Orderly Room in the Italian area. ITow, 
how far in the Italian area did you proceed with the Ll.P.'s? 

A I v/ent into the Orderly Room with them. 

Q Now Prosocution Exhibit 3 is a plat of the Orderly Room. This 

is the side door of the Orderly Room, and this is the front room, 
and wo call this Door E,and \;c call the front door. Door A. Now, 
as you arrived at the Orderly Room, did you or not go on the in- 
side? 

A Well, I v/ont into the door. 

Q You v/ent into the door? 

A Yes. 

Q .mat door? 

A Doorway E. 

Q Did you go into the room Z? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Ho\/ far did you go into Room Z? 

A V/oll, almost up to Door B, almost. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Can you hear him. Major? 

Defense: Well, I can hear him when you repeat It. 

569 



Trial Judge Advocate; i^o you mind if I do repeat on those pre- 
liminary matters? 

Defense: .Veil, no, not on these matters. 

President: Nov;, speak up just like you v/oro talking to your 
platoon. I'm sure they can hear you. 

Q ?/here did you go from there? - ■ 

A I was posted by Door E by the Sergeant of the M.P.'s. 

Q Aftorboing posted by the Sergeant of the M.P.'s at Door E, | 
did you or not remain there? i 

A Yes, sir. I remained there until he said, you go try and \ 
phone up and call the ambulance. j 

I 

Q You remained there until he told you to try and got an ambulance. 
Now, did you then go to call the ambulance? 

A Well, sir, I didn't go right av/ay, no, sir. . '\ 

Q vVhy didn't you go right s.v^txy'i -^ 

A Because he didn't instruct me to go until after I had been J 
there for quite some time . 

Q After he instructed you to go and call the ambulance, did you -i 
go right away? ■] 

A Yes, sir. 

Q 7/hcro did you go to call? 

A .Veil, the Orderly Room of the 650th, the Orderly Room of the 
Port Company. 

Q, v'Jhere is that Orderly Room by the way? 

A Building 670. 

Q Now, v/hcn you first got to the Orderly Room, state whether or 
not there were any negroes, negro soldiers in the vicinity of 
the Orderly Room? 



■i 



A You mean where now? 

Q Room 713? 

A Yes, sir, there vifas a large crowd around the Orderly Room. ^ 

Q State whether or not any of them were armed? 

A .Yell, I couldn't recall that, sir. 

Q Now, v;hen you got into the Orderly Room, did you or not see 
any negro soldiers in the Orderly/- Room? 

570 



A Around the front door, around the door which went in, yes, sir. 

Q As you rot, or after you ^ot into the Orderly Room, did you see 
any ne^ro soldiers whom you were able to identify as having 
been present? 

A There were a fev/ of theiu. 

Q All right. V/ill you have a seat. ^I will ask you whether or 
not you know the accused, Richard Barber? 

A Yes, sir, I know him. 

Q State v/hether or not you sav^f the accused, Richard Barber, in or 
around the Orderly Room en the occr.sion in qiiestion. 

A Yes. sir. I saw him around the door in which I was standing. 

Q, vVhich dour is that? 

A Door E. 

Q I v/ill ask you vjhether or not you know the accused, Loary Moore? 

A I do. . ' 

Q State whether or not you saw him on the occasion in question? 

A Yes, sir: I saw him also. 

Q Aiid v/here did you see him? 

A .Veil, he was passing Doorway 3. 
President. Sav; him doing what? 

The '.Vitness; I sa'v him through Room Z; he was passing by 
Doorway B. 

Q And you were standing where vmen you saw that? 

A In Doorvi/ay E. - 

Q All right. Do you know the accused, Arthur Stone? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Did you see him on the occasion in question? 

A I also saw him the same, passing the doorway there.- 

Q And v/here were you standing at that time? 

A Doorway E. . 

Q In v^hat doorway did yju see Arthui" ifitcae pass? 

A B. 

571 



Q Nov/, come v/ith me, v/111 you please? I v/ant jou to see if you 
can identify first, the accused, Richard Barber, the one you 
said you saw on the evening in question. Do you see Richard 
Barber among the accused? , , 

A Yes. 

Q Vfiiere is he? 

A Last man on the last row (Indicating) . 

Q vlJill you point him out nov/? 

A (indicating) . 

Q All right. Nov/, do you know the, v/ell, you have said you 

knov/ the accused, Arthur Stone. I v/ish you would see if you 
could point him out aiiiong the accused here. 

A (indicating) . 

Q, ;ilhere is that in the front of you in the front row? 

A /ifth man. 

Q Is this the soldier you had reference to (indicating)? 

A Yes. 

Q Now, you said you knev/ the accused, Loary iloore, and you told 
the Court vvhere you sav/ him, I wish you would point out the 
accused, Loary ..loore. 

A (indicating) . 

Q Is this the soldier you have reference to (indicating)? 

A Yes. 

Q That is the fifth man from the end of the row, the front row. 
All right. Have a seat. Now, Sergeant, I will ask you if 
you knov/ the accused, Luther Larkin? 

A Yes, sir, I do. 

Q Do you know his grade? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q What is it? 

A Corporal. 

Q State v/hether or not you saw him on tne occasion in question? 

A I did see him. 

Q, .^ere did you see the accused, Lucr.er Larkin? 

A Also in that large room there. Doorway B. 

572 



Q Nov\f, will you come up to the plat and tell the Court what that 
large room is? 

A This room here. Room X (indicating). 

Q And where were you standing at the time? 

A Doorvi/ay E. 

Q Now, Sergeant, did you see any negro soldiers outside of the 
Orderly Room and in the vicinity of the Orderly Room? 

A Yes, sir; there was a few around there. 

Q, Do you know the accused, '.Vallace Wooden? 

A Yes, sir, I do. ' 

Q Did you see him also on the occasion in question? 

A Yes, sir. ' 

Q Where v/as he standing? 

A He was standing around the outside of the door. 

Q Viniat door? ■ ■ ■ 

A Doorway E. . 

Q And do you knov? the accused, John Hamilton? 

A Yes, sir, I do. 

Q Did you see him on the occasion in question? 

A Yes, sir. I also saw hira around Doorv^ay E. 

Q And where were you standing at the time you saw the accused, 
Wallace Wooden and the accused John Hamilton? 

A In Door E 

Q All right. Come with me, please. I will ask you to look over 
the accused and see if you can point out the accused, Luther 
Larkin? . •' 

A (Indicating) . 

Q Well, now, let's go around to the back and you point him out to' 
me. 

A (indicating) . 

Q, That is Corporal Ltxther Larkin (indicating)? 

A Yes, sir. 

573 



Q All right. I wish you v/ould look over the accused, and see if 
you can identify Private V/allace Wooden? 

A Yes, sir, on the front rov;. 

Q vVhere is he? 

A (indicating). 

Q Who did you point out now? 

A (indicating) • 

Q All right. Now let us get out of the way so the Court can see. 
I will ask you to look over the accused nov/ and see if you can 
identify Private James Chandler? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q All right, point him out. 

A (indicating). The sucond man in thia row.' 

Q, vVhere? 

A (indicating) . 

Q Here (indicating)? 

A . Yes. 

President; Will you have him stand up please so the Court can 
see him? 

(The accused. Private James Chandler, arose.) 

Q All right. Have a seat. Sergeant. Now, do you know the 
accused, Arthur './illians? 

A Yes, sir, I do. 

Q Did you see him on the occasion in question? 

A I did, sir. 

Q And where did you see him? 

A Also around the doorway near the v/indow. 

Q On the outside or inside of t he window? 

A Outside of the windov;. 

Q Outside of the window. Now, let us get that. Come up here. 
Sergeant. '.Vhat window are you speaking of? 

A The windov/ right here (indicating). 

574 



Q Window to Room Y? 

A Yos, sir. 

Q Do you know the accused, Willie Prevost? 

A I do, sir. 

Q Did you see him on the occasion in question? 

A Yes, sir, I did. 

Q Where did you see V/illie Prevost on the occasion in question? 

A Also in the vicinity of Door E. 

Q Was he on the inside or outside of the doorway? 

A The outside. 

Q All right. Now, I asked you a minute ago to identify the 

accused, James Chandler. Did you see him or not on the occasion 
in question? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Where did you see him? 

A Also standing around Doorway E. 

Q Inside or outside? 

A Outside. 

Q And I asked you about the accused, John Hainilton, Willie Prevost, 
and Arthur ■.Villiams. Will you come with me and see if you 
can identify the accused, John Haiflilton, first? 

A Yes, sir, I can. 

Q Where is he? 

A The second man hack there (indicating). 

Q Is that the second man in the second row? 

A (indicating) 

Q That is the accused, John Hainilton (indicating)? 

A Yes. 

Q, Now, v/ill you point out the accused, Willlo Prevost? 

A Yes, sir. (Indicating). Ho is in the last row. 

Q Go and point to .711116 Prevost, please. 

575 



A (indicating) , 

Q, All right. Now, v/ill you point out the accused, Arthur .Villiams? 

A In the front row. 

Q iiVhere? 

A (indicating) . 

Q All right, have a seat, ocrgoant. Did you sec any clubs that 
night or sticks other than I'l.P. sticks or clubs? 

A Yes, sir, there were. When \'^e arrived dovm there, there v/erc 
quite a fev; boys destroying their sticks and weapons they had. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Did the Court get that answer? 

Law Member: Yes. lie said vi/hen we arrived there he saw quite 
a few had their sticks and were destroying then. 

Q Now, when you started into the Italian area \/ith the :..P.'s, 
did you or not see a group of colored soldiers an^'-whcrc along 
the road? 

A Vifell, just as the :..P.'s were entering down around the Mess 

Hall, well, in front of Barracks 719, there were quite a 

fev; out around there then. 

Q You mean Mess Rail 700? 

A Yds, sir. 

Q Did the .l.x-'.'s have any conversation with any of the negro 
soldiers vrtio v/ere standing there? 

A ;Vell, only thu fact that they told theu to stand back. Thoy 
would send the boys up from down there, their boys, to take 
care of everything, 

Q Did you recognize any of thosv^ negro soldiers? 

A No, sir. At the tirae I never thought of it. 

Q Did you recognize any of then by voice? 

A Well, one. 

Q '.ifhose voice did you recognize? 

A Sergeant Arthur Hurks. 

Q, Now, did you or not see Sergeant Hurks after you recognized his 
voice, did you see him at any other time after that? 

A No, sir, not that I recall. 

Q vilhat did the H.P.'s ask at that time with respect to the menvho 

576 



wore in that group; did they make any request of them? 

A Yea. 

Q Or did they give thorn any instructions? 

A Yes. They requested they remain back and return to their 
barracks. 

Q Did you or not see v/hether any of those men came into the 
area after that or remained there? 

A No, I don't know that. 

Q Did you or not see any of them come dovm the road after that? 

A No, sir; I did not. 

Q Nov;, v/hat v;ere the lighting conditions aroiind the Orderly Room, 
Sergeant; by that I mean wore there any lights in the Orderly 
Room, and, if so, what reflection from those lights went on the 
outside of the Orderly Room if you know; just tell the Court 
about that, 

A V/ell, sir, there were lights around the door and v/indow of the 
Orderly room; that v/as the stand I was standing on. 

Q The reflection of lights? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Sergeant, is there an obstacle course anywhere in that area? 

A, Yes, sir. I don't know the exact location fron that area, but 
there is one some distance away. 

Q, Now, let's see if you can tell from this map; v;ill you step up 
here a minute to Prosecution Exhibit 2. Do you know whether or 
not this Lawton Road, beyond that in a v^estcrly or southwesterly 

direction, a westerly direction, there is an obstacle course 

that was used by the negro troops for their training? 

Defense: That is objected to, if the Court please. He has 
practically told him v/hero that is nov/. I v/ould like the witness 
to testify if he knows. I further object to the use of these maps 
that don't pretend to show any other area than the Italian or colored 
areas. There are maps available on the Post that show that, I may 
say . 

Q Well, you know whore these barracks are, and there is a recrea- 
tion hall that has been agreed on and there is a little chapel 
and a recreation hall. Nov/, do you know whether there is an 
obstacle course in that general vicinity? Will you answer that 
first, please? ,; . i"^ ■>• 

A Well, sir, from the direction of Lawton Road, I don't know 
vi/hich it would be, but behind Lawton Road, I know there is 
an obstacle course. 

577 



** All right, v/ill you answer that again? 

A I laaow thoro is an obstacle course behind Lav/ton Ivoad, but in 

v/hlch direction, I don't know. 

Q vVhat do you moan "behind Lavi/ton Road"? 

•^ On this side (indicating) . 

Q You pointed to thu west side of Lawton Road? 

A Y0 3. 

Q Nov/, will you tell the Court whether or not as a part of that 
training the negro soldiers used that obstacle course? 

A Yes, sir; they did use it. 

Q Did you or not, your, yourself, go ovur that obstacle course? 

A I did, sir. 

Q Will you just tell the Court v/hat you remorabor about that 
obstacle course, v;hat it consisted of, and do you remember 
anything in particular as to part of the training that was 
given? 

A Well, sir, there were quite a few obstacles on the course that 
the men had difficulty with, in fact, I could say that my 
commissioned officer had trouble getting the men to go over. 
Thcr.. were quite a few hard obstacles on that course for the 
first training of the men going over. 

Q State v/hothcr or not you ever saw a cable in that obstacle 
course? 

A Yes, sir; there was. 

Q jYhat kind of a cable? 

A It was a cable bridge. 

Trial Judge Advocate. The Prosecution has no further questions, 

CROSS EXAMINATION 
Questions by Defense: 

Q Now, Sergeant Grosham, did you yourself go through a show-up 
line ¥/here you wcr^ paraded before some of the Italians down 
here? 

A Ygs, sir. 

Q You were identified yourself, with those Italians? 
A No , sir . 

Q V/eren't you pulled out and held for av/hilo? 

G78 



A No, sir; I wasn't. 

Q Now, on thu evening of August 14th, had you be on dovm to the 
PX? 

A I had boon over In the Service Club. 

Q Tliat was with your lady friends? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Would you mind an interruption? If the 
Court, please, I overlooked asking this witness about one soldier. 
If the Court please I would like to have the Court resolve per- 
mission in my behalf to go into that and if I could, 

Defense: I v/ould prefer you do it at this time, counsel. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right. 

DIRECT EXA1.IINATION 

(continuing) 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Do you loaow Booker Tovmsoll? 

A- Yes. 

Q, State whether or not you over heard him make a comment about 
the incident on the evening of August 14? 

A Yes, but he was not speaking directly to me. 

Q Was it in your hearing? 

A Yes. 

Q, When was this remark made? 

A The following morning. 

Q After the incident occurred? 

A Yes. 

Q What, if anything, did Booker Townooll say? | 

A Well, I taken from v;hat, 

Q (interposing) No, nov/, just what he said. 

A Well, he stated he was among the first to attack an Italian. 

Q He said he v/as among the first to attack an Italian? 

A Yes. 

Q Let us see if you can identify Booker Tovmsell? 

579 



A (Indicating). In the front rov/. 

Q Point him out nov/. .' 

A (Indicating), Fourth man from the ond there. 

Q Fourth man from tho end? 

A Yos. 

Trial Judge Advocate; Tliat is all, thank you. 

CliOSS EXA!;iNATIOH 
V Continuing) 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Had you boon in the PX on Sunday, the day before? 

A No, sir, not tho day before. 

Q Had you boon in there Saturday night? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q A n\imber of colored soldiers wore in there at that time? 

A Thoro were quite a fev/. 

Q Yifhat occurred there that evening, if anything? 

A Well, sir, an incident botv/oen white coldiers and one of 
tho Italian soldiers. 

Q '.Vhat happened? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Now, if it please the Court, unless 
tho exaxuination has something to do v/ith this matter, it Is 
entirely irrelevant and imnatoi^ial and has nothing to do with this 
case. Ho is asking about an alleged incident nov/ botv/eon some 
v;hite soldiers and an Italian soldier, and it is supposed to 
have occurred before this incident. 

Law Member: How is it material. Major? 

Dofenso: I expect to sliov/ through this v/itness and a number 
of other witnesses a continual number of incidents botv/oen the 
white soldiers and Italian soldiers in the Club or the PX, and 
observed by the colored soldiers as indicating a situation v/hich 
influenced a state of mind on behalf of tho colored soldiers 
that were stationed in that area, as those incidents would af- 
fect their state of mind. I think the evidence is admissible 
from the standpoint of explanation or mitigation for tho Court's 
consideration. i\nd I expect further to shov/ that in a number of 
those incidents - and counsel for tho Prosecution v/ould have the 
Court believe, of course, that this is a conspiracy and a delib- 
erate attempt on the i>art of a groat number of colored soldiers 
v;ith malice aforethought to riot against those Italians and I 
am prepared to show that on a number of these occasions a 
number of colored soldiors that vjorc in tho PX at the time 

5Q0 



actually aeparatod and broke up those fights between the 
v/hito soldiers and the Italian soldiers. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Unless it was to the effect of identi- 
fication of the accused man it could not have been any relationship. 
There is on^ thing that makes this evidence completely irrelevant 
and Imaaterial and that is, there is no such thing as justification 
for or in defense of rioting. 

Law l.iember: I think that is so, Coiinsol. 

Defense: Well, I think from a legal defense standpoint that is 
probably true but at the same time the Court has a right to hear all 
of the conditions which may have affected the state of mind of those 
negro soldiers and their actions in this area. I believe the Court 
realizes that they are a very impressionable group, there isn't 
any doubt but v/hat these colored boys ar . impressionable and for the 
purpose of considering punishment I think that evidence is admissible, 
if for nothing else. 

Lavif Member: Well, I don't see where a separate incident the 
Saturday night before v/ith some Italians and white soldiers, or a 
fight between a white man and an Italian prisoner of war has any 
connection v/ith this matter. 

Defense: Well, I can connect this up. There v/ero many, 
many instances. 

Lavi^ Member; Yes, there \vere many instances in North Africa, 
too. 

Defense; But these men were not in North Africa. These men 
were in that area where the PX was. 

Law liembcr: Well, have you any identification of the white man 
that was involved in this incident? 

Defense: No, sir. . ■ 

Law Member: Or have you any identification of the Italian 
prisoner of war that was involved in this incident you speak of? 

Defense: No, sir. 

Lav; Member: Well, then, in what v;a;; do you consider this 
evidence is material. Major? 

Defense: I think it is taaterial as showing incidents which 
took place, in which these men were not involved, but observed those 
incidents and helped separate these people and by showing the way 
in Y/hich the v/hite soldiers treated the Italians and as showing the 
state of mind of the colored soldiers in this area who all knev/ 
about it, whether they all saw it or not. 

Law Member: Well, that is certainly not a defense. 

Defense: I did not offer it as a defense. I already stated 
I think it is a matter of consideration in mitigation by the Court, 

581 



It is a matter that the Court haa every right to take into considera- 
tion, the explanation of that and v;hat occurred, and they can do that 
in the v;ay of mitigation if for nothing else. 

Trial Judge Advocate; May I just mention, if the Court please, 
that if you got into situations of that kind the Court can very 
readily see hov/ it would bo impossible to give any validity to it. 
There is no identification. As a matter of fact, counsel admits 
that none of his accused were connected with these incidents. How 
could it affect their state of mind? I care not how much the victim 
may have wronged. There is absolutely nothing that is admissible 
in that respect and with respect to the things that motivated the 
rioter. The fact that he participated In it is the only thing that 
we are concerned v/ith. And the decisions are very plain and it has 
been so held so many times, and I think v/hat we would get into here 
is a number of Isolated incidents far removed from the situation in 
issue and could not possibly shed any light on the issues in this 
case . 

Defense: .Veil, I believe, if the Court, please, if for no 
other right, I have the right to go into that to test his recollec- 
tion, if for no other purpose? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Oh, no, now. Major, you haven't a right 
to test his recollection with matters that don't relate to this case. 

Defense: Yes, I can go back two weeks or two months and test 
his recollection. You have had him go back and inquire about^the 
obstacle course which may have been weeks or months ago, and inci- 
dents about that. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I think you know why I did that. 

Law iviember: Now, the testimony was there was an incident on 
the Saturday night, and that may stand; But any testimony as to 
the incidents and of what happened two nights before this last 
incident occurred, I hold that is irrelevant and immaterial. 

Q Who do you recall seeing. Sergeant, in the day room that even- 
ing? 

A Well, sir, there were quite a few of the boys around there. 



Q 



but who do you recall seeing over there 



Veil, I suspect there were quite a few of the boys around, | 



i 



A Anzell Jeffries. And I saw Henry Veeder. Kenneth Barber. I 
Louis Duvrall. Sidell Cox. Johnnie Ceaser. There were 1 

quite a fev; others there, I can't recall at the moment. ''\ 

Q Did you see Roy Dayniond over there? 

A I don't recall seeing him. 

Q Now, about what time was it you left the day room? 

A Well, maybe five minutes after 10:30. 

582 



Q, Aiid you v/ent to the bus then? 

A '.Ve started on our way to the bus. 

Q How many were in the party? 

A Four of us. 

Q You and who else? 

A Davis. • 

Q, You and iJavls and two ladles? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Hov\? long did you take to walk dovwi to the bus? 

A I don't recall exactly hov/ Ions it took. 

Q '.Yell, axjproxiraately hov; lone;? 

A .Ve didn't walk straight to the bus. 

Q, wliere did you go i 

A To the bus stop by the guard house. The reason was the girls 
lived on Gilinan. The bus that goes dovm Gilraan sometimes comes 
around by the guard house ^ about 10.30. - 

Q, Did you go up there to the bus stop? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Did you stay there any length of time? 

A Yes. 

Q About hov; long? 

A Fifteen or twenty minutes. 

Q, How long did it take you to get from the day room up to that 
bus stop? 

A I don' t knov/. , . 

Q Vi/ell, I know you can't give it to rae exactly, but v/as it fifteen 
minutes or twenty minutes? 

A Somewhere around that . 

Q And then you wait.^d around in the vicinity of the bus stop? 

A Yes, sir. ■ 

Q And you vmlked over to the east gate? 

A Yes, sir. 

533 



Q That is quite a little walk? 

A Yes. 

Q, Hov/ long did it take you to get over there? 

A I don't recall exactly but before we reached the entrance to 
the station hospital we heard taps. 

Q How far is the station hospital say from the east gate? 

A I would say soiaewhere around one hundred yards. 

Q And then you walked on direct to the east gate? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q How long did you wait around in the vicinity of the east gate? 

A Well, the bus ca^iio in about fifteen or twent:'- minutes. 

Q Prom the tinit^ you heard taps blow till you got to the east 
gate, how long did it take to do that? 

A '.Veil, when we heard taps we hurried it up, because the girls 
had to be off the Post by eleven o'clock. 

Q And 30 it took about five minutes? 

A One to five minutes. 

Q And you were in the vicinity of the east gate fifteen or twenty 
minutes waiting for a bus? 



A Yes, sir. ■ 

Q, Did you put the girls on the bus? 

A Yes, sir, we did. 4 

Q And you and your companion walked back to the barracks? j 

A No, sir. 1 

Q ;Vhat did you do? ?j 

A ^Vell, at the time the barracks bus v^^as coming and the I.l.P.'s 

picked the people up and we v/aited until they had gotten there 
and got in Wf rode up to the guard house. 

Q About how long did that next bus come in after you put the 
girls on their bus? 

A Between fivo and ten minutes. 

Q And you got on the bus and rode up by the guardhouse, that is 
the Post Guardhouse? 

A Yes. 



Q And that is still quite a little walk from there dovm to your 
barracks? 

A Yes. 

Q Hov; long a period of time do you think it took from the time 
you got off the bus to get down to your barracks? 

A I can't recall exactly. 

Q vVell, does it take five minutes, do you think? 

A My estimation would be between five and ten minutes. Because 
it stops at the service club. 

Q, Did it stop long at the Service Club? 

A Sometimes. This time I think ther.. v/ore quite a few getting 
off there. 

Q And then after you got off it stopped by the guard house, and 
about hov; long did it take you to v;alk back down to your 
barracks? 

A Well, v/e were not in any particular hurry that evening and we 
had been talking over the situation of going overseas the next 
morning so we walked slowly. 

Q Well, how long did it take you? 

A About fifteen or twenty minutes. 

Q About fifteen or twenty-minutes to v/alk down there? 

A Yes. 

Q So you never v;ere back in your barracks before this incident 
occurred? 

A No, sir. 

Q vVlaere were you at the time you first knev/ about it, that some- -. 
thing Mi&d wrong? 

A Well, I was standing on the corner of Lawton Road, I don't 

recall the name of the street there. 

Q Well, does it shov; on thu map. Let us go over and take a look 
at it and sec if it does. 

A This road here, that one branches off (indicating). 

Q You vi/ere standing on the corner of Lawton Road near Barracks 665? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q What did you hear at that time? 

A I heard a lot of commotion down in the Italian area, 

505 



Q Did you sec any vehicular traffic going dov/n towards the area? 

A Well, in about, I v;ould say we stood there and talked a few 
minutes and I saw an automobile, a truck, A jeep passed. 

Q Was it a jeep that went by now? 

A I v;on't recall exactly but I recall a vehicle passing. 

Q Which v/ay did that vehicle go? 

A Down tovifards Barracks 719. 

Q You were the section leader at that time? 

A Yes. 

Q Did you carry a whistle? 

A I was supposed to have, yes, sir. 

Q Did this vehicle you v;oro talking about stop in the vicinity'- of 
Barracks 719? 

A I believe it did, sir. 

Q, Well, then, what did you do? 

A vVell at this time this vehicle v^as passing. Corporal Richard 
King came -out of this Barracks 665. lie started down to the 
area and I yelled to him and asked him what vms going on. 

Q All right. Was there quite a crowd around in front of 
719 at that tiiae? 

A Yes, sir, there v/as. 

Q About hov/ many would you think there was? 

A I don ' t Icnov/ . 

Q Was there as many as a hundred? 

A I v/ouldn't say there v;as that many. 

Q Would it be more than fifty? 

A Yes, sir, I would say there v/as just about that probably 
more than that . 

Q Probably more than fifty and less than one hundred? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q All colored soldiers? 

A Yes, sir. 

585 



Q Then you wont down towards the place whoro you saw the 
vohiclo? 

A Yes J sir. 

Q Did that turn out to be a jocp, or vi?as it something olso? 

A Well, sir, as soon as wo arrived do\/n there quite a few other 
vehicles arrived and cars and carry-alls for the M.P-'s. 

Q About how itiany did arrive? 

A .Yell, in fact, I knov/ one stopped and others kept continuing 
on dovm alon^ the road. 

Q At the time you arrived there, was there just one stopped? 

A One stopped? 

Q Just one vehicle, there in front of Barracks 719? 

A 'iiioll, sir, ri,:]ht at present I can't recall. 

Q You did 20 dov/n in front of Barracks 719? 

A I did, sir. 

Q 'Jell, there \/as at least one vehicle there at that tine? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, 'JSciQ was in that vehicle? 

A M.P.'s. 

Q Hovif many? 

A About six, I ail not positive. 

Q About six Ox thezn \.-;:.re theri^ at that time? 

A Ye s . 

Q V/ho else do you recall seeing around in that crowd? 

A Vi/hat? 

Q iVho else do you recall seoinc around at that time? 

A Well, I recall one of our boys. That was Private John 
Pinkney. He was with the i.i.P.'s. 

Q V/cll, then, about how Ion;-; did you remain in that vicinity? 

A Vi/ell, I don't recall that because the .^.P.'s were telling 

everyone to go back into the barracks and clear the street, 
and he asked me, shortly after that, because I had boon 

587 



v/lth the Company, if I 'would go down and help break up 

the riot. 

Q Were you around in that area in front of Barracks 719 more 
than five minutes, do you think? 

A I don't think it v/as. 

Q V/ell, do you think it was loss than five minutes. 

A '(Veil, I ..-ouldn't 1 can't recall it. 

Q Well, you were not there as long as ton minutes, then, anyvray? 

A Wo. I couldn't trvithfully say. 

Q Well, I don't expect you to c±vg me the exact minutes. Sergeant, 
hut just your best estimate. How long do you believe you v/cre 
around in the vicinity of 719? 

A I don't think it was over ten minutes. 

Q You don't think it v;a3 over ten minutes? 

A No, sir. 

Q Well, while you were standing around Barracks 719, there were 
other cars that had already gone dovm to the Italian area? 

A Yes, sir, I guess there v;orc . 

Q Did those other cars go down to the Italian area before you 
arrived in front of Barracks 719, or after you got there? 

A After I arrived there . 

Q About the same time you arrived, some of the other cars wont 
off down there? 

A I would say, yes. 

Q How many were there? 

A I v;ould say at least two. 

Q Were they full of M.P.'s? 

A That is v;hat I took them for. 

Q After you started down towards the Italian area, did you go 
directly down there? 

A With the M.P.'s yes. 

Q Walking? 

A Ye s . 

538 



Q Are you sure you didri't run? 

A Vifo walked at a hurried pace, 

Q You v/alkod dov/n there? 

Trial Jvidrjo Advocate: He said somothing olso to that ansv/er^ 
ho said he v/alKod at a hurried pace . 

Q Yec. Do you recall at what point you entered the Italian 

area? 'Ji/uald you come over here and look at Prosecution Exhi- 
bit 2. 

A This waii our route we wont. Wo went dovm Lav/ton Road and 
around hero (indicating), and I recall going past those 
barracks. 

Q That is Barracks 708 and 709? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q So you think you entered tho area between Barracks 709, and 
the Ordorly Room which is 713? 

A Yos, sir; right in there (Indicating). 

Q As you went down and passed Building 700, you said there was a 
big crov/d standing around Building 700? 

A Yes, there is kind of a bank up hero (indicating). 

Q There is a bank vi/hich follov;s 'jVyoming Avenue and is on tho 
oast side of it? 

A I don't knov; that. I know there was a crowd standing on the 
bank looking down Into tho area. 

Q • For our purposes, now, let us assume that this direction is 
north and this direction is south (indicating on map) and 
directly toward you is west, and towards mo Is oast. Now, if 
that is correct that would be the easterly side of V/yoming 
Avenue v;horo the bank is you spoke of, wouldn't it? 

A I couldn't say. 

Defense: Woll, may it be agreed. Colonel, ho has indicated 
the easterly bank of V/ycming AvTonue where ho sav; the crov/d behind 
Barracks 700. 

Trial Judge Advocate' Yes. 
Q About how many pooplo would you say wore in this crowd? 
A I would saj- about the same number as around Barracks 719. 
Q Something over fifty and loss than one hundred? 
A Yes, sir. 

589 



^ At the tlmo you got into tho Italian area the fl^ht was all 
over v/ith? 

A Well, at the time I arrived in tho area I v/ouldn't say it 
v/as all over with. 

Q, Did. you see anyone hit anyone? 

A Bo, I didn't see that. 

Q Did you see anyone damarc any government property? 

A No . 

Q Yo\i reraeraber talking v/ith me about this case dovm in Camp 
Jordan a v;eok or ten days ago? 

A Yes. 

Q You v/ere tolling mo the truth when I talked v/ith you then, 
v/eron't you? 

A Yes, sir, I v/as, 

Q You told mo at that time tho fight was all over with, didn't 
you? 

A No, sir, I did not. 

Q Well, let us see, Well, I v/ill look it up during the noon 

hour. You did not see anyone throwing anything at that time? 

A No, sir, I did not. 

Q, You didn't see anyone strike anyone? - 

A I didn't see anyone strike anyone, but I could hoar a noise 
or commotion inside the Orderly Room. 

Q You could hoar a noise or comiaotion inside tho Ordoi'ly Room? 

A Yes. 

Q Well, tho li.P.'s wore inside the Orderly Room? 

A At the time I heard tho coriimotion, no, sir, they wore not. 

Q Hadn't that first b\mch of M.P.'s been in the Orderly Room? 

A They may have been, I don't knov/. 

Q But they had gone down there to the Italian area at least 
five or ten minutes before you loft, hadn't they? 

A Yos. 

Q Well, when you camo into the grounds of the Italian area, did 

590 



you soe li.P.'S at that tiiao? 

A I only scon one or two outside trying to koop, or get the 
crovifd out from around the Orderly Room, 

Q There v/ero a lot of soldiers standing around there, looking 
around there? 

A Yes, sir, there was. 

Q And approximately how many, approximately how many cars 

wont do'j/n towards the Italian area before you went dovm? 

A I wouldn ' t say any more than tv/o . 

Q Those were carry-alls? 

A I don't recall v/hat they were. 

Q, You don't know v;hat they wore? 

A I do know, sir, there was an ambulance also went down there. 

Q But In those tv/o cars and the ambulance thero v/as more than 
two people? 

A liVhcn I spoke of the ambulance I said it was one of these other 
vehicles. 

Q Do you mean there v\fa3 one car and the ambulance? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q '.Veil, between the one car and the ambulance there was more than 
two people there, wasn't there? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q By the v/ay, as you went dovm Lawton Road, or Lawton Avenue, 

towards the Italian area, do you have any recollection of 

who you might have seen standing up there on the bank looking 
dovm? 

A On my v^ay dov/n to the area? 

Q Yes. 

A No, sir, I didn't. 

Q Didn't you tell me a minute ago you recognized some of those 
standing on the bank? 

A I say I recognized a man on the way out of the area, on the way 
for the ambulance, 

Q Do you remember telling Colonel Jaworski about seeing a man 
standing there that you recognized? 

A Yes, sir. I believe I did. 

591 



Q What was that man's namoV 

A Private x'^rank Hughes. 

Q By the v>/ay, how many times have you told Colonel Jaworski 
about that man standinc outside the Italian area? 

A- Only once . 

Q Nov/, after you left the road and vient down into the Italian 
area, betv/een Building 709 and 713, v;hat did you do? 

A Hovif was that? 

Q I say after you loft Lawton Road, and v/cnt into the Italian 
area at the point you have indicated betv/een Buildings 709 
and 713, what did you then do? 

A I was posted at the door. 

Q Hov7 long a period transpired before you were posted there, 
were yoti standing around talking a little v;hlle first? 

A Not more than a minute . 

Q '.Vho posted you? 

A The Sergeant of the M.P's. - 

Q And he posted you outside of Door E? 

A Just inside Door E. , ' • 

Q And v/hore did the Sergeant go? 

A He v/ent on into Room X. 

Q, Ho vi/ent through Door B into Room X^ 

A Yes, sir. 

Q During the period of time you stood there, immediately there- 
after, did you see other M.P.'s in the building at that time? 

A I don' t recall. 

Q You cannot recall whether or not you saw M.P.'s In Room X 
through Door B at that time? 

A No, sir, I can't. I said I also, 1 also remember seeing him 

in there. The Sergeant of the M.P.'s. 

Law Member: Sergeant v/ho? 

The V/itnoss; The Sergeant of the M.P.'s. 

592 



Q Well, as a matter of fact you saw Luthor Larkln talking to 
one of the M.P. ' s? , 

A Yos, thoy wore speaking together. 

Q They v/cro having a conversation? 

A Yes. 

Q Larkin and. an LI . x-* . ? 

A Ye s . 

Q Tliat was the Sergeant of the iI.P.'s? 

A Yes. ' 

Q Did you also tell Colonel Jaworskl before youj:^ testimony 

today that when you sav; Larkin ho was talking -with an II.P.? 

A I don't recall. 

Q Ho did not ask you any questions about that this morning, 
though, did ho? 

A No, sir. 

Q Now, as you stood around Door E, you, of course, could not 
see Door A, the other door entering the building? 

A No, sir. 

Q And who might have gone in or out of that door you could not 
know? 

A No, sir, unless they passed over in front of Door 3. 

Q, There were people outside there that evening that were curious 
as to v/hat was going on Inside, v;oren't they? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q As a matter of fact, Richard Barber cajue up and tried to have 
a look inside, and you wouldn't let hl.a go inside, isn't 
that right? 

A Yes, sir, Doorvmy E. 

Q Did he ask you to go in? 

A No, sir. 

Q But he came up and started to go in? 

A No, sir. He just came up and stood around and kind of tried 
to look over my arm. 

Q Just to see what v/as going on in there? 

593 



K*' 



A Yos, sir. 

Q And you told him ho could not go in thoro? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q The other men that you said that you saw in there, you don't 
knovi; v/hether thoy were in there, these other men, when you 
got there, or whether they came in through Door A after you 
arrived? 

A Wo . 

Q Now, when I talked to you down at Camp Jordan, I asked you to 
toll mo about all the people you could remonbor seeing down 
there, didn't I? 

A Yes. 

Q, Did you tell mo anything about iiVallace V/oodon? 

A I don't recall at the moment. I told you at the time thorc 
was some others I couldn't recall at that time. 

Q You arc as sure you told me that as you are of all of your 
other testimony here today? 

A Yes, sir. I said there had been some that I don't recall nov/. 

Q Did you toll mo anything abou.t Hamilton? 

A I don't rocall. 

Q Did you tell me anything about Williaras? 

A I don't think I did speak of Williams. . , 

Q Why arc you so sure you didn't toll me anything about 'iVilliams? 

A His name was mentioned since then and I recalled seeing him 
on that occasion. 

Q It is all since you talked to mc at Camp Jordan now that you 
recall for the first time that you saw Williams, isn't that 
right? 

A No, sir. I spoke of seeing him boforu. 

Q When was the first time you spoke to anyone about seeing 
Williams? 

A About three days after tho incident. 

Q Vftio did you speak to? 

A Well, sir, I don't know the Major's naxae . It v/as prior to 

going overseas, while I was in the stockade. 

594 



Q Then you had completely forgotten you had ever seen 
Williams? 

A Well, I didn't completely forget it. 

Q You never told anybody about it again? 

A Yes. 

Q ^Vhen? 

A Well, on ray trip overseas, on my return, to my questioner. 

Q l(Vho did you tell? 

A Colonel Jaworski. 

Q You told him about seeing Williams? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q You are positive of that? 

A Yes. 

Q IVhere v/as it you saw Chandler this evening? 

A Where in the area? 

Q Yes, where did you see him in the area that evening? 

A He was outside, standing around the door. 

Q What door? 

A Door E, sir. 

Q Was he out on the ground outside or was he on the porch of 
the building, or where? 

A I don't recall the position. He was outside the doorway. 
I would say on the porch. 

Q How far from the building? 

A I would say four or five feet away. 

Q Is your recollection better today than it was when I talked 
with you? 

A Woll, sir, its been on my mind. 

Q Well, I know that, but you don't recall bettor today than 
v;hon I talked with you dovm at Camp Jordan, do you? 

A I couldn't exactly say, 

Q Didn't you toll me Vi^hen I questioned you at Camp Jordan you 

595 



don't remember where you saw him? 

A I don't remexiiber telling you that. 

Q, You don't know whether you told me or not? 

A No. 

Defense: If the Court please, I notice it is nov; 12;00 
o'clock. I am not going to finish with this vifitness very soon. 

President: I have two minutes till tv/elve. Court v/ill 
he in recess and v;e will reconvene at 1:30. Nov^?, you realize 
you arc not to talk to anyone about your testimony on this 
matter during the noon? 

The Witness: Yes, sir. 

(iYhereupon, court Vi/as rocosscd at 11:59 a.m., and recon- 
vened at 1:30 p.m., as follows;) 

President: Prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution is r^ady, sir. 

President : ^ Defense ready? 

Defense; Defense is ready, sir. 

President: Court will come to order. 

(Tlie roll of the accused was called by the Assistant Trial 
Judge Advocate, and all were present.) 

Trial Judge Advocate: Lot the record shov/ that each of the 
accused is present, and that all members of the Court are present, 
and that the personnel representing the accused are present as 
well as the personnel representing the Prosecutic^n. 

SERGEANT ROBERT GRESHAM, 

was recalled, and testified fu.rther as follows: 

Trial Judge Advocate: Sergeant, you are reminded that you 
are still under oath. 

The Witness: Yes, sir. 

• CROSS EXAMINATION 

(continuing) 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Sergeant, where was it in the vicinity of the Orderly Room 

that you saw Williams? 

A Arthur Williams? 

596 



Q Yos. 

A lie v;as also around the front of the door I was standing 
at. 

Q I v/ant you to corac over to the map, which Is Prosecution 
Exhibit 3, and show mc v;horo it was you saw Williams? 

A I don't rciuGmbor the exact location. 

Q Well, give mo your best recollection? 

A About here (Indicating) . 

Q, Nov/, you name it. . '. 

A I v;as standing here (indicating). 

Q You wore standing in Door E? 

A Yes, sir; around in here (indicating) . 

Q Your initials are R.G.? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q I will mark that R.G. All,- right. Will you come over and 

sit down now? Now, did you s^-e '■/illlams before or after you 
saw Pruvost? 

A Vifell, sir, I sav; them both about the same time. 

Q You saw them both about the same time? 

A Yes, sir. ■--''■ 

Q, Now, Sergeant, let us go over there and mark down whore it 
Yi^as that you savj Prevost? 

A Ee v/as also around in here (Indicating). ' ' • 

Q, Well, was Prevost closer to you than '.Vllllams or farther 
away? 

A Vi/ell, I don't remember. .. ■• 

Q, Well, you were there and you v/ere the one that saw them, so 
now give us your best recollection, whether Prevost v/as 
closer to you than Williams or v^rhether he was farther away? 

A Woll, to the best of my recollection I think that Prevost 
was closest to mc . . 

Q Well, was Prevost closer to the building than Williams or 
vms he farther away than Williams? 

A He was closer to the door than Williams. 

597 



Q Will you mark that where you saw him? 

A About hore (indicating). '-' . 

Q I will mark that RG-1 (marking on map). Now, did you 

notice Vi/illiams before you noticed Hamilton, or did you see 
Hamilton before you sav; Williams? 

A I saw Hamilton after I had saw Yifilliams. ' • ^ 

Q, 1/Vhero was it you saw Hamilton? 

A I saw him right in hero (indicating). 

Q About here (indicating)? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, let us mark that RG-2 (marking on map). Nov/, you say you 
sav/ Wooden. Did you see Wooden before you saw either of 
these other three men or did you see him afterv/ards? 

A I saw Wooden first. 

Q You saw Wooden before you sav/ all the rest of them? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Where did you see him? 

A He v/as closer to the door here (indicating), 

^ He was closer to the door, about in hore (indicating)? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q I will mark that RG-3, if the Court please (marking on map). 
All right, now, lot us come over hero and sit dovm. Hov/ 
was Williams dressed that evening? 

A I don't recall, sir. • . 

Q You don't knov/ how he v/as dressed? 

A No, sir. 

Q Did he have anything on his head? 

A I don't recall that. 

Q How was Provost dressed that night? 

A I can't recall that either, sir. - ' 

Q You can't recall that either? 

A No. 

598 



Q '.^iThat If anything did Provost liavo on his head? 

A I can't recall, sir. 

Q, How was Hamilton dressed that night? 

A I don' t know. 

Q You can't recall that either? 

A The fact is, I can't, I don't recall vorj much what any of 

them had on because I wasn't noticing ioarticularly how thoy 
wore dressed. 

Q, You observed all those nen? 

A Yos, sir. 

Q Yet you can't toll this Court how a single one was drossod? 

A No, sir. 

Q And you can't tell this Court v^hothor a single one of those 
men had a single thing on his head or not? 

A No. 

Q Is that right? 

A Ye s . 

Q Now, you recall lao asking you about Sergeant liurks when I talked 
to you down at Camp Jordan, don't you? 

A Yos, sir, I do. 

Q Don't you recall tolling mo that Sergeant Hurks was assisting 

the M.P.'s up there that evening? 

A I told you as I viras on ny v/ay into the area with the M.P.'s, 
I hoard Sergeant liurks tell the boys to remain and help hold 
the boys back. 

Lav/ Moxdbor: V/ill you repeat that? 

The V/itnoss: Aft^^r I started into the area with the M.P.'s, 
I hoard Sergeant Hurks say or tell the boys to stay behind and help 
hold the boys back and for mcj to go on with the M.P.'s. 

Q Now, as a matter of fact, you had a conversation with Hurks? 

A Just that, that was the only conversation I had with him. 

over 
Q Thorc wasn't/any doubt in your mind that vi/as Hurks thoro? 

A I just heard the voice. 

Q, You v/oro sure that was Hurks? 

. . 599 



A I just hoard the voice of Hurks. . - 

Q Now, just ansvjor the question. Was there any doubt In your 
mind that was Ilurks you had the conversation v/ith in front 
of Barracks 719? 

x\ No^ sir. . ' 

Q All right. As a matter of fact, down at Cajnp Jordan I asked 
you those questions, didn't I, and you gave me those answers*. 
"Q Did you sec Hurks helping the lI.P.'s? A After the men 
asked me to go down there he told me ho would stay up there 
and keep the boys from coming down and for mo to go ahead 
with the M.P.'s. Q Vi/here v/as Hurks? A In front of the lot 
across the street in the open area, 719." 

Law Moraber: Vifoll now, counsel, is there anything contradic- 
tory? 

Defense: 7/g11, this witness has been wallowing around 
here from one point to another, 

Law Member (interposing): Well, I didn't ask you that 
counsel. I asked you if there was anything about the testimony 
of this v/itness on direct examination that v;as contradictory on 
his cross examination as to what he has answered already? 

Defense: I certainly say there is. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Now, if it please the Court, counsel 

has taken his notes and he just roads the same thing and, he just 

asks him if he agrees with it, and he is arguing with the witness, 
and I ask that be stricken. 

Law Member: That motion will be denied. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I also ask that the remark about 
the witness v;allov/ing around bo stricken. 

Law Member: Yos, that request will be granted. . 

Q Nov;, will you come over hero, Serguant, and shov; us v/herc 
this conversation was on the map? 

A Ground in front v/ith the other M.P.'s. 

Q Now, indicate again. 

A In here, sir (indicating). 

Q That is botvi^oon Moss Hall 700 and Lawton Road? 

A Yes, sir. Closer to the road. 

Q Dov/n here (indicating)? 

A Yes, sir. - 

600 



Q I v;lll mark that RG-4 (marking on map) . 

Lav/ Mombor: That represents what. Major? 

DofonsG: That represents the place v/hore he had the conver- 
sation v/lth Hurks, isn't that right. Sergeant? 

The Witness: Yes. , " 

Q All right. Sergeant, sit dov/n please. And then after 

Sergeant Ilurks said that he would hold the crowd back, you 
wont down to the area? 

A Yes. . ' , ■ " ■ 

Q i\nd you left Sergeant Ilurks back up at the place you have 
indicated? 

A I did, sir. 

Q After the v/ork or the assistance that you rendered down in 
the Italian area v/as over with, did you go back up in the 
vicinity of 719? 

A Yes, sir. I v/ont up to my orderly room. 

Q Is that in 719? • 

A No, sir. .„ . 

q, That is in a different building? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q But on your way back, did you go back by the vicinity of 
719? 

A I turned up Lawton Road and tu.rned across the road from 
719. 

Q lixid there were quite a group of soldiers in the vicinity of 
719? 

A In the doorway, outside. 

Q Were any of the men still staiiding there holding the crowd 
back? 

A The crov/d had gone across the street and was standing right 
around 719. 

Q Did you go over and talk to thorn? 

A No, sir. I returned for the ambulance and I didn't 

Q (Interposing) Vifoll, v;hcre did you go to call the ambulance? 

A Up in the Orderly Room. 

601 



Q 670? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Well, in going up to Building 670, you did not go up Lawton 
Rocd in tho vicinity of 719? 

A Yos, sir, I did. 

Q, Well, isn't that soraov/hat, well, you v/ont that v/ay in- 
stead of up the path? 

A I did not go up the path. 

Q , Did you get over around close to 719 on your way up to 670? 

A Only there (indicating) here at my route, I came out and 
v/ont up there (indicating). 

Q Up Lawton Road from tho Italian area? • ' 

A Ygs, up to hero (indicating). 

Q To the intorscction of Virginia Avenue and Lav/ton Road? 

A Yes, And then up in front of these barracks. 

Q That is across from 660, 667, and 666? r ■ ' ;' 

A Yos, sir. 

Q Did you go close to 719 so that you could rocognizo any of 
tho people standing around there? 

A No, sir, I did not. 

Q You were wearing a Van Dyke hoard, vyrorcn't you, the last 
time I talked to you? 

A I don't,- — 

Q (interposing) Didn't you have some whiskers on your lev/or 
lip, a sort of a goatoo? 

**■ Yes, sir, I shavod those off since then. ■• 

Q Yes, you shaved those off. Now, this conversation about 
Booker Townsoll, -where did that take place? 

A The next morning, sir, after v;o had call of formation. 

Q i"iftcr the formation was over v;ith? 

A Yos, sir. And v/e v;oro ordered to bring our bags out and 

line them up outside tho door and fall back in for formation. 

Q Was that bofor.. formation was called? 

602 



A Yes, sir. 

Q In front of the barracks? 

ii Ygs, noxt to 719, , ' 

Q Whoro did you have tho barracks call, where was that hold? 

A Between 719 and 718. 

Q Were you a party to this conversation? 

A Nq, sir. 

Q You just overheard it? 

A Yos, sir. 

Q vVho v/as all involved in the converr.atlon: 

A I don't recall that. 

Q, Well, vms it a conversation that had been ^oing on for a little 
time? 

A I couldn't toll you that. 

Q Who was Townsoll talking to? 

A I don ' t Icnov/ , 

Q iVcll, v^hat did he say, just before ho made the remark that 
you testified about this morning? 

A I don't Imow. I really don't Icnow, sir. 

Q You recall that remark you testified to this morning very 
distinctly but you can't testify at this time as to who 
was engaged in tho conversation or rjiything about it? 

A That's right. I was, 

Trial Judge Advocate (interposing): '.Veil, I, well, go 

ahead. 

A (continuing) Vftien I overheard this conversation, v/hon they 
made that remark I was passing behind them, v/hon I heard 
this remark made. 

Q You don't Imow, you were not facing him? 

A No. 

Q Did he have his face to you? 

A No. But I was standing at an anglo so I could see him, 

Q, You could observe him quite clearly? 

603 



A Yos, sir. 

Q Thoro was nothing t^t all obstructing your vision? 

A I could Sv30 moro than his profile. 

Q But you do not laiow who ho was directing that remark to? 

A No, sir, I don't laiow. 

Q "liVoll, now, toll lac again, just as accurately as you can, 
first, v/hat the remark was ho made? 

A Woll, he said ho was among the first to strike an Italian 
the night before . 

Q He said ho was among the first to strike an Italian the 
night before? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q You recall those words very, very definitely. He v/as the 
first to strike an Italian? 

A Yos, sir, I do. 

Q There is no question about that in yotir mind? 

A No, sir. 

Q Is that what you told no whon you v/ere talking to me down at 
Camp Jordan? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Isn't it a fact that you told mo that time you hoard he had 
hit ono of the Italians over the head \;ith a stick? 

A I don't remember tulling you that? 

Q But you loiow that was not what was said? 

A Yos, sir. 

Defense: That is all the questions I have, if the Court 
please. 

REDIR3CT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judgo Advocate, 

Q About how long were you dovrn in the Orderly Room? Just es- 
timate it and get as closely to it as you can. 

A I would say I was there between ten and fifteen minutes, 

Q Vifcro or not the negro soldiers cleared out of the Orderly 

604 



Roora bctwoon that ten and f if toon minutes? 
A ^jVlicn I arrived? 

Dofcnso: Objected to as loading. 

Law Moubor: Will you read the question, l.lr Reporter? 

(Last question road backo) 

Lav/ Member; Objection overruled. 

Q Not when you arrived, but by the timo you left, I moan. 

A Well, sir, I don't know about the largo roou, because I 

don't Icno'.v who got in there, who v/as in there by the time I 
loft. 

Q 'i/Vhat efforts did yoti see the Ililitary Police make, and v/hat 
efforts did you help the Ililitary Police make in order to 
help get the negro soldiers from that area; just tell the 
Court . 

A \iVcll, sir, v/hon wo arrived the Military Police were telling 
the boys to get out, got everyone out of the room, and thoy 
told me to stand in th^j door and let no one cone in. 

Q /ind you say you stood there ton to fifteen minutes? 

A Ye s . 

Q Nov/, Ilajor Books asked when you sav; ?rank Hughos. 

A Yes, after I left on my v/ay from the Orderly "toom to call the 
ambulance. 

Q That v/as after you loft the Orderly rioom going tov/ard, 

Defense (interposing); I am going to object to counsel re- 
peating the ansv/er for every single ansv/er the witness gives. It 
is decidedly improper for counsel to repeat and repeat a v/itness's 
testimony. 

Law Member: Vi/ell, h.^sn't it been ansv/ered that it happened 
coming out of the area? 

TRIAL Judge ii.dvocate : I v/anted to get it very clear after 
ho had been in thu Orderly Room it v/as that ho sav/ Prank Hughes, 

Defense; I think it has been brought out sufficiently. 

Lav/ Member: 'well, you brought that out Colonel, Major, 
Colonel Jav/orski had not brought up the name of i-Yank Huglies, so, 
has it some implication? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Exactly. The implication v/as he 
did not bring out iYank Hughes because he happened to bo an 
accused. I have got the right nov/ since he opened this up to 

605 



show nov; why ho did not ask anything about ?rank Hughos. 

Lav»r MGrnbor; "iVhoro did you soe Prank Hughes? 

Tho Witness: He v/as standing sort of hohlnd the Moss Hall^ 
Building 700. 

Lav; Meinbor: That is when you wore on your way out of tho 
ar^a going to call an ambulance? -, . 

Tho iVitnuss; Yos, sir. 

Lav/ Member; Is that sufficient'? 

Q, Yes, sir. Except now I would like to have him v/alk up and 
pick out the accused. Prank Hughes? 

A (indicating). . ' 

Q, You are Indicating tho first man in the second rov/? 

A Ye s . . ' " 

Q, All right. Have a seat. Sergeant, There is just another 

question or two that I have. How, i.'ajor Becks asked you if 
you did not carry a whistle. Did you blov/ a vrtaistlo that 
night. Sergeant? 

A No, sir, I did not., 

Q, Did you have a whlstl(j \/ith you that night? 

A No, sir, I did not. 

Q Are you positive of that? 

A Positive. 

Q, Nov;, questions were asked you about Sergeant Hurks and you 
said that you believed that you sav; Sergeant Hurks and you 
told the Court of tho conversation, Nov;, tell the Court 
v;hether you identified i.-.-;rgoant Hurks by his voice or v/hethor 
you Identified liim by hi 5; appearance? 

A I identified Sergeant Hurks by his voice. 

Q, ■L'o you have any knowledge of jovlt ovm. as to v;horc Sergeant 

Hurks was prior to the time that tho Military Police arrived 
that evening? 

Defense: Objected to as improper rodir^-ct examination. 

Lav; Member: Objoctlon overruled. 
Q, Will you answer tli,j question? 
A No, sir, I did not. 
Q You did not? 

606 



A No. . 

Trial Judge Advocate : The Proaocution has no further 
questions. 

Defense; I have no further quoations. 

President: ITiere are some questions I v/ould like to ask. 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT . ." 

Questions by the President: 

Q, How long have yoii known Barber? 

A Well, sir, I have boon in the Company ever since he has boon 
in the Company. 

Q Hovv long is that? • • 

A Well, sir, at the time of the inciciu.it, I would say eight 
months. . 

Q, Nov/, Sergeant, how long had you. knovm the accused Moore? 

A About the sarae time, sir. 

Q, And Arthur Stone? 

A Also the same time. 

Q, And Corporal Luther Larkin? 

A Well, sir, I am not exactly, as to the time I would say 

approximately three months, possibly loss than that because 
ho had not been long with the Company. 

Q, Less than throe months you think? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Hoy/ long have you knovm wooden? 

A A little longer than that, than I have knov/n the others, be- 
cause wo carae up through the saiae reception together. 

Q Would you say eight months, or it v/a s over eight months? 

A Yes, just a fov/ weeks ov..r eight moi'.;:hs 

Q, And Hamilton, hov; long have jou knov/n John Hamilton? 

A About eight months, sir. 

Q, Hov/ long have you known James Chandler? 

A "vi/ell, sir, he had boon in the Company for eight months, but 
I hadn't boon with him for about four, four or five months, 

607 



-jvipc.^^ :-- 



I v\fould say. . „ 

Q, And Arthur Williams? 

A Eight months. 

Q, And Willio Provost? . . 

A Well Provost, about three months. ^^ ' 

Q You knev/ all of thoeo men by sight and by name? 

A Yos, sir, I did. 

Q, Before this incidont happened? 

A Yes, sir, I did. 

■i 

President: I have no further questions. Are there any fur- | 

ther ^questions by the Court? | 

Law Moraber: No questions. 

Lieut. Col. Stecher: I have a quoatioii or two. 

President: All right. 

Questions by Lt. Col Stechor. 

Q, Was the phone out of order in the Orderly Room, or just v;hat 
v/as it that prompted you to go to your own Orderly ^'^oom to 
call for the arabulance? 

A Yos, sir, the Sergeant of the M.P.'s came to the door v^hero 
I was standinfi and asked if there v/as any phone around there 
and I told hin the only place that I know of, where I Imcv/ 
of one, vas in my Orderly Room, and at the time I didn't 
know there Vifas a phono do"wn there. 

Q How long wore you standing in Doorvmy E when you saw Moore 
and Arthur Stone pass Doorway B? 

A I don't know but I vvould say about tv/o or three minutes after 
I had been posted in th^: door. 

Q, In which direction did you see them move? 

•^ I saw thOi.! move toward Door A. 

Q, Did you see theia going the other way, past Door B, the other 
v;ay or the opposite direction? 

A I savif them going toward Door A. 

Q Did you see thorn before that passing that door? 

A No, sir^ I did not. 

608 



Lt. Col. Stochor: That is all 

President J Are there any further questions? iVltnoss will 
ho excused. 

Witness excused. 

Trial Jud^e Advocate: Call Thurman Jones. 

Sergeant Thurman Jones, oecurity Detachment, a witness 
for the Prosecution, was sv/orn and testified as follows: 

DIRECT EXALIINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate; 

Q State your name, your grade? - • 

A Sergeant Thurman Jones (spelling). 

Q Jones is the last nainc? 

A Yes. Sergeant Thurman Jones. 

Q, And your organization. Sergeant? 

A Security Detachi.ient, Port Lawton. 

Q, And your station? 

A Port Lawton. ■' 

Q Sergeant, do you remember the occasion of the night of 

August 14, 1944, v;fhen some negro soldiers entered the Italian 
area at x^ort Lawton? 

A Yes, I do. 

Q State v/hethcr or not you proceeded to that area that night? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, In response to what? 

A In response to an oi'der from Sergeant Callahan. 

Q, When you arrived at the Italian aroB., Sergeant, state whether 
or not you had occasion to ask for tho aid of any negro 
soldiers? 

A Yes, I did, sir. 

Q, State whore these negro soldiers went with you after you asked 
for their aid. • ^ - 

A Dovrn to Building 713, sir. 

Q, Is that the Orderly Room? 

A Yes, sir. 

609 



} 



Q Ask Sergeant Gresham to come forward, first, v/ill you? 

(Sergeant Gresham comes forward.) 

Q (continuing) Sergeant, I will ask you to look at this man. 
Now, move up a little. Sergeant Gresham. And will you take 
a look at this Sergeant negro soldier and tell the Court 
whether or not he was one of the negro soldiers v/hose aid 
you enlisted at that time? 

A Yes, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate; And may it be stipulated it is the 
same Sergeant Robert Gresham vdio has just testified? 

Defense: Yes, 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all. Sergeant Gresham, you 
may leave . 

Q Do you recall v^fhere it was that you stationed him, or what 
you asked him to do? 

A Yes. I told him to keep the rest of the negroes out of the 
Orderly Room, and then later I told him to call for an am- 
bulance . 

Q Now, will you come forward. Sergeant, and look, take a look 
at this Corporal negro soldier. Do you remember that you 
saw him the night of August 14, 1944 (indicating)? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, State whether or not he was one of the negro soldiers whose 
aid you enlisted in connection with the affair? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Corporal Richard King. Do you remember what he helped you 
do? 

A Yes, sir. He helper i.^e (.^et the negroes out of the Orderly 
Room and watch the doo:"" for me. 

Q All right. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Will you stipulate that is Corporal 
Richard King? 

Defense: Yes. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution has no further questions. 

CROSS EXAMINATION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Were there other colored soldiers that assisted you also there 

610 



A 



that rovening? 

Well, I don't reraembor, sir. I mean there was several In 
there, I remember those two especially, because I enlisted 
their aid. 



Q Before you came down to the Orderly Room, had there been 
any negro soldiers with ratings called on to assist you? 

A Yes. At the intersection before you go into the Italian 

area, I told two or three of the non-coms to keep the boys 
back from coming into the Italian area. 

Q, Were there quite a number of negro soldiers around Buildina 
719 at the time? , . 

A Yes, sir. •' ' . '.■ . ' ".-:■ -, 

Q Could you remember at this time any of the negro soldiers 
you might have called on for assistance? 

A No, sir, I couldn't, because I v/ent straight on into the 
area. 

Q, How long have you been an M.P.? ^ ■-■ 

A About four or five' months. '■ 

Q, How long had you been prior to August 14, 1944, how long 

had you been in iu.P. work? •'-' 

A Two or three weeks. '"' 

Q Y\fhat were your duties before that? 

A Tank Commander. ., - 

Q, And you went on down then later into the Italian area and 
into the Orderly Room? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q About how many negro soldiers were there around the Orderly 
Room at the time you v;ent in there? 

A You mean right, , , ' 

Q, On the outside, I am talking about, first. 

A Well, between the Orderly Room and the barracks, I would say 
around tv/enty-f ive. 

Q And v/ere there quite a n-utaber of others disbursed throughout 
the area? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q About hov; many would, you estimate were down there altogether 

611 



in the area? 

A I wouldn't know, 

Q About 150? 

A I believe so. 

Q How many did you see inside the Orderly Room when you rot 
there? '^ ^ 



A 



There must have been fii'teen to twenty, 



Q Did you enter through the side door, Door E? 

A Yes, sir. Sow, wait a minute. Pardon me, sir. There was 
a door, 

V 

Q (interposing) Well, just come over here and take a look at 
this map. Sergeant. Now, this is Prosecution Exhibit 3 which 
shows the Orderly Room and Door E is the side door leading 
into Room Z and Door B, leading into Room X, the larger 
room, 

A This is the door (indicating), 

Q You went in through Door E? 

A Yes. 

Q There was a good deal of confusion down there that evening, 
wasn't there? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q At the time you arrived? 

A Yes. 

Q And it was pretty dark on the outside? ' " 

A Not right in the Orcerl^- Room. 

^ You mean at Door E? - ■ 

A Yes, sir. It vv-as pretty light. 

Q Were you able to recognize anybody? 

A No, sir. 

Q, Not a soul? 

A No, sir. I didn't stop to look. 

Q Were you able to recognize anyone inside the Orderly Room? 

'k Only those two. 

Q You can't recall anyone else in the Orderly Room? 

612 



A No . 

Q Were you up in the guard house at the time your call came 
in for assistance? 

A Yes. I walked in just as Corporal Davis recoivod the call. 

Q About what tirae v/as that? 

A I don't know, I would estimate around 11:20 to 11:25. 

Q iVoll then vrtiat happened? 

A The Sergeant ordered ine and three super-numers ' to the area. 

Q Did you proceed then to the area? 

A Yes. . 

Q Hoy/ long did it take to get dovm there? 

A To the intersection or to the Orderly Room? 

Q Well, did you make only the one trip dovm? 

A I stopped at the intersection. 

Q How long did it take you to get from the guard house to the 
Orderly Room or from the Orderly Room to the intersection, 
from the guard house down to the intersection? 

A Not over four or five minutes. 

Q How long did it take you then to leave from the guard house 
at the time you were ordered to go down there? 

A Not over three minutes. Of course, they were all ready. 

Q Well, you were in the guard house at the time the call came 
in? 

A When the call was coisipleted, yes, sir, I was there. 

Q So at the time or within ten minutes from the time the call 
cane in you were at the intersection? 

A No, sir. V/ithln five minutes. 

Q Then how long did it take you to get from the intersection on 
dovm to the orderly room? •' _ 

A About four or five minutes. 

Q So from the time that the call came in to the guard house, 

and you arrived at the orderly room, it was about ten minutes? 

A Yes, sir. 

^ Had you been in the guard house all that evening? 

613 



A No, sir, not all evening. 

Q As far as you knov/ that v/as the only call that came in, 
that ever came in that evening? 

A Yos, sir. '^ 

Q Did you make any attempt that evening to get in touch with 
the Company officers of the 650th, or the 651st, or the 
578th? 

A Sergeant Callahan pickod that up. 
Q But you did not do it yourself? 

A No, sir. 

Defense: That Is all the questions I have. 

Trial Judg.5 Advocate; Prosecution has no further questions, 
if it please the Court. 

President: I have no questions. Are there any other 
questions by the Court? 

Maj. Crocker: I have a question or two. 
President: All right. 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 
Questions by Maj. Crocker: 

Q You said there were about 150 men in the area. Did you mean 
the aroa, the portion Just outside the area, or lust what do 
■ you mean by the area? 

A I mean by the whole Italian area. 

Q Are you including men who wore up on the bank across Wyomine 
Avenue? "^ ^ 

A I am Including the men at the intersection when I fir-st 
started. 

Q You are? 

A Yea. • 

Q Are you including all of the negro soldiers you saw from the 
time you arrived at the intersection? 

A Yes, sir. 

S 5? ^ understand you correctly then that you saw about twenty- 
five men outside of the orderly room between the orderly room 
and the next barracks? 

A Yes, sir. 

614 



Maj. Crockor: That is all. 

President: Any other questions? ' ■ 

Quostions by Law Mombcr: 

Q \Vhcn you say "inturscctlon" you moan the intersection of 
Lawton Road and Wyoming Avenue? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q That is Virginia Avenue dovm there, I believe, at that inter- 
section, or Is it the next one to it you moan? 

A I mean Virginia Avenue and Lawton Road, sir. 

Law Mombcr: That is all. 

President: Any other questions? If not, the witness will 
bo excused. 

_ -^rial Judge Advocate: I have another question or two. 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate; 

Q The estimate you made of 150, is that a guess or how close 
is that, can you give us an idea of what you base that on? 

A I vifould say that was the least there was. 

Q And you included all those joxi saw up hero at Lawton Road 
and Vir^-inia Avcnuo? 

A That is right, yos, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all. , 

("siVitness excused.) 

Trial Judge Advocat'-. : If the Court please, I have sent 
out for a nuinbor of witnessed which I think are hero now, and 
if the Court will give me a fuw minutos' time, I v/ill go out 
and see them. Frankly, I thought the cross- examination v/ould 
take somev;hat longer. 

President; 'if^o will have a fivo-mlnutc recess. 

(Vi/horoupon, coxirt was In recess for five minutes.) 

Trial Judge Advocate; I am ready if the Court, please. 

President: Defense r^ady? 

Defense: Defense is ready, sir. 

President; Court will come to order. 

615 



Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record show that each of , 

the accused are present, that all members of the Court are 1 
present as well as the personnel representing the accused and 

the personnel representing the Prosecution. , 

William Cunningham. 

T/5 William ^ Cunningham, 650th Port Company, a witness 
for the Prosecution, was sworn and testified as follows: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate; 

Q State your name? 

A T/5 William P Cunningham, 

Q ■ Your organization is what? 

A 650th. /■ 

Q And your station? 

A Here in Headquarters, Headquarters Detachment. J 

Q You mean Headquarters Detachment No. 2? I 

A Yes. 

Q At Camp Jordan? 

A Yes. . \ 

Q You were formerly with the 650th Port Company? 

A Yes. 

Q 'JVhere were you stationed during August, 1944? 

A Well, sir, I was down there in the barracks. No 719. 

Q And that was at what stabion? 

A ?ort Lawton. 

Q Do you remember the incident on the night of August 14, 

1944, when a group of negro soldiers went into the Italian 
area at Fort Lawton? 

A Yes, sir. ■' 

Q Where were you that night? 

A I was at the show. I went to the show that evening. 

616 



Q After you went to the show, where did you go? 

A Came on back dovm to the barracks. 

Q Where did you go from there? 

A I came back to the area and went to the barracks. 

Q What area did you go to? 

A Down there vjhere I v/as from, 719. 

Q Did you sleep upstairs or downstairs? 

A Upstairs. 

Q In Barracks 719? Did you go to bed? 

A Not right away, 

Q What were you doing? 

A When I came down, that is when I was talking to one of our 
boys that v;as knocked out. 

Q Who was that? 

A VifilliaBi D Montgomery. 

Q, Where was he? 

A Laying on the curb right in front of 719. 

Q, Did you remain there or go somewhere? 

A Well, they had taken him away so I went upstairs. 

Q Up where? 

A 719. 

Q, Did you go to bed? 

A No, sir, I didn't go r^ght to bed. 

Q Vilhat did you do? 

1 '/(Tell, I was supposed to stamp my clothes and that is what I 

was doing. 

Q 'kVhile you were up there stamping ycur clothes, did you have 
occasion to see Corporal Luther Larkin? 

A Yes, I did. 

q Tell the Court v/hat you saw Corporal Luther Larkin do, if 
anything. 



617 



A Well, I didn't see him doing anything at the time I came 
upstairs. 

Q fVhat did you see, or, did he say anything? 

A Yes, sir, he asked for a whistle. 

Q Did he go back downstairs then? 

A Vifell, sir, he left the barracks. I wouldn't attempt to say 
where he went but back out v/here he was. 

Q He left the barracks then? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Did you thereafter hear a whistle blow? 

A Yes, I did. 

Q Did you hear any other noise? 

A Viflien I came dovm I heard the noise before I came dovm, when 

I heard the whistle, v;hen the v/histle blev/, I came down. I 
heard the fence first, and when I came dovm, the fence that 
had been removed. 

Q Now, will you como over here and take a look at Prosecution 
exhibit 2, which is a map of that area. Now, hure is 
Barrackr- 719, the barracks you testified you were in? 

A Yes. 

Q And here is a mess hall across the street. Barracks 700? 

A Yes. 

Q Now, will you tell us about vdiere that fence was? 

A Well, the fence was right in front of Barracks 719. 

Q On the same side of the street or across the street? 

A It was across on this side (indicating), 

Q, Now, here is your road, running here, you knov/, that is 

Called Lawton Road that runs by the mess hall. Nov/, will 
you point out about where that fence is? Here is the road. 

A Is this the front of the barracks? 

Q Yes. 

A The fence runs about to the left, to the mess hall, like 
this (indicating). 

Q, Well, I am going to mark with a bunch of X' s and I will put 

518 



"fence" underneath where the fence Y^ras (marking on map). 

A Yes, 

Q Now, what kind of fence was that? 

A It v/as a light fence, made out of posts. ♦ 

Q Did you ever see any boards like Prosecution Exhibit 9 
(indicating)? 

A Ye s . 

Q Where did you ever see anything like that before? 

A That is v/hat it looked like the fence v/as made out of. 

Q How many boards would you. say there vjas there? 

A I wouldn't say. I don't have any idea, but enough to stretch 
across there. 

Q What condition was that fence in v;hon you came down there? 

A When I came dov/n the fence had been removed. 

Q State whether or not there had been any sort of a game in 
progress in 719 that particular evening? 

A Yes, sir, there was a crap game up there. 

Q Do you know the accused, Arthur Ilurks? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Was he a participant in that crap game? 

A Yes, sir, he was in it. 

Q Now, what happened to that crap game when the whistle blew? 

A Well, sir, the crap ga-'iS broke up. 

Q Did you see Sergeant Ilurks after that whistle blew? 

A Yes, sir, I sure did. 

Q When you went do'j/nstairs in front of tho barracks, hov; long 
did you stand thure? 

A I stood there while the whistle v/as blowing, iintil I saw one 
of our boys from the Company bring another boy over that v/as 
bleeding. 

Q. Who brought that boy over? 

A Robert Sanders. 

Q 'liVho did he bring up that was bleeding? 

619 



A Snow. 

Qi Is that Sammy Snow? 

A Yes. 

Q, Were they both or either of them from your Company? 

A Yes, they were both there but Snow had just come back off 
from furlough. 

Q How long did you stand in front of the barracks? 

A I stood there until one of the first Sergeants from the 
next Corapany come over and said to our boys, "Don't none 
of them go over there," and about that time our Sergeant 
come up . 

Q, Who was that first Sergeant? 

A Sergeant Aubry. 

Q Hov; many minutes did you stand in front of Barracks 719? 

A Well, sir, I couldn't say hov; long I stood in front of the 
barracks. 

Q Well, just tell the Court your best estimate. I know you 
can't be exact. 

A Well, well, it was imtll after I sav/ how they brought 

Snow up, and then I s&w the first Sergeant; why, I don't 
know hov; many minutes there were before then, before he came 
down . 

Q, Well, v/ould you say it v;a3 as many as five minutes? 

A Well, I would say about five minutes, it could have been a 
little longer. 

Q Now, did you during the time 3rou stood there, let's see, 

hov; long you stood thore, now. Hov; long did you stay there 
after Sanders brought Snow up there? 

A Well, it wasn't long. After they come, brought Snow up, 
why then the first Sergeant came up. 

Ql Then v/here did you go after the first Sergeant talked to 
you? 

A Well, he came up and said no more of the boys was to go down 
there and then, they asked us if we had finished doing what 
they told us to do about the pants and so forth, and I had 

finished and after that Lieut. Sistrom come up and told us 
'to put the lights out, 

Q, During the entire time you were out in front there did you at 

620 



any tinn soo Sor^Gant Arthur Hurks atanding in front of 
719? 

A No, sir, I don't boliovG I did. ' — 

Q \Vhon v/as the last time you saw Sc-rgcant Hurks that night? 

A V/g11, sir, v;hon he was in the crap gamo upstairs was the 
last ti.iio I saw hir.i. 

Lav/ Member: Wuat vifas that last naiue? The name of that 
man he racntionod? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I holievo it is Sistrong. 

Q Now, will you come with mc a minute. Corporal, and I wish 
you would look over this group of accused and point out 
'Corporal Luther Larkin, if you sec him around? 

A (indicating) , 

Q Is this the man (indicating)? 

A Yes. . , 

Q ThG third man from tho end. Nov»r, you spoke of Robert 
Sanders bringing Sammy Snow up there, 

Defense (interposing): Now, if th^^ Court please, I object 
to the continuous use of the v/ords 'bring up." The only thing the 
witness tostifiod v/as that ho saw Sanders come up v/ith Snow to 
the Barracks 719. It is extremely prejudicial. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I will agree to have it taken out 
and insert another word. Do you v/ant to havo it as "led"? 

Lav/ Member: Oh, v/cll, counsel, let's not quibble. Just 
say ho brought him up to in front of Barracks 719, v/hothor it 
is up or not, doesn't make any difference. 

Q Now, will you point otit Sanders? 

A (indicating) . 

Q The fourth man from tho end is Sanders (indicating)? 

A Yes. 

Lav/ Member: Fourth man? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes. 

Q Now, the colored soldier that he brought to in front of 719, 
Sammy Snow, will you point him out, please? 

A Yes, next to the end there (indicating). 

Q Right hero (indicatliag) ? 

621 



A Yes - 

Q All right, have a seat. Corporal. 

Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution has no further ques- 
tions, if it please the Court. 

President: Cross-examination? 

CROSS- EXAI,ONATI ON 
Questions by Defense: 

Q You Vifere up there In your barracks at the time you say Luther 
Larkin came up and asked you for a whistle? 

A Yes. 

Q And you actually sav/ Luther Larkin when he came up there? 

A Yes, I saw Luther Larkin come up the stairs. 

Q, You saw him when ho said, "Has anybody got a whistle"? 

A Well, I didn't see him when he v^rent up to the boys. I was in 
back and'I turned around and saw him standing in the stairs. 

Q Oh, all you heard was that Luther Larkin came up the stairs 
and later someone asked for a whistle? 

A Yos. - 

Q Col. Jav/orski asked you several times whether you sav/ Arthur 
Hurks in front of 719 that evening? 

A That evening? 

Q, After you went dov;n? 

A No, sir, I never did. 

Q Well, just tel]. us vrti^ 3,ou did sec? 

A Well, I didn't go out to pick out the men, I just v/ent out 
to see what was going en. I couldn't do that. 

Q Hov/ many men wei -^ out in front? 

A I couldn't remember. 

Q A lot of men were out in front, weren't they? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q But you can't remember any of them v^ho were out in front? 

A No, sir, I can't. 

Q Arthur Hurks might have been there and you didn't see him? 

522 



r-" 



A I don't know. • 

Q I say Arthur Hurks might have boon there and you didn't see 
him? 

A Yes, Hurks might have been there and I didn't see him. | 

Q And you can't tell the Court the names of anybody you did | 
see? ^ 

A Well, I saw the first Sergeant when ho came up there, 

A G George, and Alvln Clark, was shov\/lng us vifhere he got 
hit in the head. 

Q How long a period of time were you out there in front? 

A Well, sir, well, I v/as there when they brought Snow, until 

the First Sergeant came. 

■J 
Q And v/as there quite a group of men around there all the time? | 

A Well, there was, I imagine, it was one of those groups, just 

a group out there, a bunch of men was out there. 

Q Well, would you say it was more than fifty? ^ 

A Well, sir, I hate to guess.' 

Q Well, I don't want you to give the exact number, but would 
you say It v/as more than fifty? 

1 
A I wouldn't say more than fifty but there was a pretty good i 

bunch there . 1 

Q Could it have been fifty? ' ' 

A It could have been more or could have been less. I v/ouldn't I 
say. " 1 

Q Was there a lot of light out there that evening? 

A No, sir, it was dark at night. 

Q Pretty hard to rocognizu anything? 

A Yes, sir, it was dark out there. 

Defense: That is all. 

REDIRECT EXAMI2^ATI0N 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q, How long have you kno -n Corporal Luther Larkin? 

A Well, sir, he v;as just transferred over to our outfit, I 

don't know how long back, but I was prefty familiar with him as 

623 



one of our follows. 

Q You say you v/ere pretty familiar with him as ono of your 

fellov;s. Well, give the Court some idea of v/hat you mean 
by that. 

A Well, I knowed him. 

Q, Had you had occasion to talk with him? 

A Well, no more than on detail when we would go out on detail. 

Q Were you or not familiar with his voice? 

A Well, I knowed his voice. He sort of talked through his 
nose, 

Q Whose voice v/as it that you heard asking for this whistle? 
A Well, that was his voice, 

Q Well, you told Major Beeks there wore a group of men in front 
of Barracks 719. Did you see a group of men go anywhere? 

A ■ Well, sir, at the time it just looked to me like they v;as going 
and coming all of the time. I wouldn't say I saw any going, 

Q Which direction v/ere those going you saw go? 

A Well, I sav\r some men going tov/ards the mess hall. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution has no further questions. 

Defense: Defense has no further questions. 

President: Has any member of the Court any further questions? 
If not, the v/itness may be excused. 

Witness excused. 

Trial Judge Advocates Call Addison Ceorge. 

T/5 Addison Goorg>v, C50th Port Company, a witness for the 
Prosecution, vi/as sworn and testified as follows: 

DIRECT EXAIvilNATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate; 

Q State your narao. 

A Addison George. 

Q And your grade? 

A T/5 . 

Q And your organization? 

A 650th Port Company. 

624 ; 



ir 



■> ■' 



Q And your station? 

A Camp George Jordan. 

Q And are you now with the Headquarters, Headquarters Detachment? 

A Yes, sir. ... 

Q Wore you formerly with the 650th Port Company at Port Lawton? 

A Yes, sir. . • 

Q And were you v/ith that Company at Port Lawton during the 
month of August, 1944? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q I notice you said you wore a T/5, and I see you don't 

have any chevrons on. You still are a t/5, aren't you? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q, Do you recall the incident on the evening of August 14, 1944 
vi/hen a group of negro soldiers went into the Italian area at 
Port Lav/ton, do you remember that incident? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q In what barracks did you stay in? 

A 719. 

Q, Did you stay upstairs or dov/nstairs? 

A Dovm stairs. 

Q Did you have occasion to be upstairs in Barracks 719 on the 
night of August 14, 1944? 

A Yes, sir. ■ ' ' 

Q, What were you doing? 

A I was upstairs. ■ y '■ ' 

Q What were you doing upstairs at the time? 

A Gambling, sir. 

Q What kind of gambling? 

A Shooting dice. 

Q Was Sergeant Arthur Il^-rks in that dice game? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q. Nov/, vi/hllo that v/as going on, did you have occasion to soo the 

625 



accusGd, Luther Larkin? 

A Yes, sir, I seen him come upstairs. 

Q, 1/Vhat, if anything, did Corporal Luthor Larkin say? 

A He came upstairs and asked about a v/histle.. 

Q He came up and asked about a whistle? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Did you or not after that time go downstairs or did you stay 
upstairs? 

A I stayed upstairs. 

Q Did the crap game continue or did it break up? 

A 'It continued on, after he asked for the whistle, why it con- 
tinued on. 

^^■■<l How long did it continue? 

A Oh, it continued on five or ton minutes. 

Q Then what happened? If it failed to continue on, what caused 
it to break up? 

A Someone said the whistle blew dovm there, lot's go. 

Q, And v/ith that, what happened? 

A Well, thjjy all v^ont dov\fnstairs. After I got downstairs, v\/hy 
I seen the fence was gone. 

Q, 'vVhat fence are you talking of? 

A The fence right In front of the mess hall. 

Q, The fence in front of the mess hall? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Handing you the Pilose cut ion Exhibit 9, did you ever see this 
piece of board before? 

A No , I haven ' t . 

Q \Vhat did this fence look like? 

A Well, it v/as a fence, a picket fence, around the front, right 
around the corner of the raess hall. It had some planks nailed 
on some pieces like that. 

Q Like this (indicating)? 

A Like this piece, and soiac little one by fours, or something 
like that (indicating). 

Q, Were or not some pieces in the fence of a similar type as this? 



A Yos. 

Q All right. 

Law Member: ^Mhon you say "this" you are referring to 
Prosecution Exhibit 9? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, thank you. 

Q, And what did you see about that fence when you carae down 
there? 

A I soon it was gone. I stood there a few rrilnutos in front of 
the barracks. 'Hi on I walked on across to the mess hall. 

Q, You walked across the street to the moss hall? 

A Yes, sir. 

q Vtoat is that. Building 700?' 

A I don't remember the nuiribor. 

Q Is it or is it not th- building across the street from your 
barracks 719? 

A Yes, sir, that is the mess hall. 

Q, Then what did you do? 

A I stood there a little ?/hilo and then I came on back to the 

barracks. About that time the i^irst Sergeant, ho was standing 
up there trying to get them back to their barracks. 

Q, Do you remember his name? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Who was that? 

A His name was, well, I Imow him, I can't recall his name, 

but I would know hl.u wLi..- 1 I first saw him. 

Q Hoy/ long has it boon slucc you have seen him? 

A Oh, it has boon ever since they left for overseas. Been 
about four or five months, I guess. 

Q But ho -was jouv x^irst Sergeant? 

A He was our i.''irst Sergeant. I asked, I said, what is all this 
about, and thon ho said, "George, hush your mouth and get 
on in the barracks." So, I Just walked on, I went on in 
the barracks. . •- 

Q Did you hush your mcuth? 
A Right thon, sir, yos, sir. 

Q After you v/ent into your barracks and went to bod, did you 

6:37 



have occasion to sog Prank Hughes? 

A Ygs, sir, I scon him. 

Q When was that? 

A I seen hira that night. 

Q Who Glso do yuvi roncmbor seeing bosidos Prank Hughos? 

A Prank Hughes and David Walton and Robbie Sanders, 

Q That is Hobert Sanders. Well, did you have occasion to hear 
any conversation botvt;oen those three? 

A Yes. I hoard, I heard him say, "I hit one," and the other 

one said, "I hit one," right then. 

Q Wiat did the third one say? 

A He said he hit one. 

Q, All right, no?;. Let us soe if you know Corporal Luther Larkln. 
Will you look over the group of accused sitting there. And 
you look thera over and then you can v;alk around and take a 
good look at .everyone and tell us if you can soe Corporal 
Luther Larkin? 

A Guess I must bo getting old. Is that all of them? 

Q, Take your time . 

A Has he got his head dovm? !',ly goodness, there ho is. 

Q, There ho is. All right, come over and shov; us \;hich one 
is Corporal Luther Larkin? 

A Third one from the end (indicating). 

Law l.lembori Who was th:-.t? 

Trial Judg^j Advocate : u'orporal Luther Larkin. 

Q All right nov;. Don't sit dov^n too soon, because I want 
you to see now if you can find David Vv'alton. 

A That's him ri^lit here (indicating). 

Q This one (indicating)? 

A Yes. 

Q, Now, see if you can sue Prank Hughes. 

A Wliero is he, I saw him just a minuto ago, 

Q All right, come over here now. Wnlch one did you point to? 

A Here (indicating). 

628 



Q All right, now. That is Frank Hu^hus? 

A Yos. 

Q, All ri(3ht. Now, see if you can sog Sanders whom you also 
mentioned seeing. 

A There he is (indicating). 

Q This one is Sanders (indicating)? 

A Yes. 

, I, ■ 

I 

Q All right, have a scat. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution has nothing further if 
it please the Court. 

CROSS-EXAMINATION 

Questions by Defense: ] 

Q, George, do you remember when I talked to you dovm in Camp 
Jordan, oh, about ten days or two v^eeks ago? 

A I am not sure , i . , 

Q iVell, you remember seeing mo beforu, don't you? 

A I just can't koop peoples on my mind. I v/ouldn't knov; you 
from none of the rest of them. 

Q You don't have any recollection of seeing me at all? 

A I know some fcllov.' was down there, but Virho it was, I don't knov;. 

Q, You can't remember whether it was me? 

I- 
A I don't remember. ■ 

Q, Well, if you can't reKiO.iber a face like this one, do you remember 
Captain Noyd, maybe he lir.s a face you can remember better. 

A I believe I did kind of remember something like that. 

Q But you have no recollection of seeing me at all? 

A I don't, but ■;you could have boon there. I don't pay no atten- 
tion. 

Q Well, didn't I talk to you for some little time? 

A Soniobody talked to me, I don't know v/ho it was. 

Q Well, what did tho man look like that talked to you? 

A.' Well, I wants to tell you, I really wasn't paying any attention, 
just sitting there. 

Q, Well, he asked you questions about the case and a young lady 

629 



Was taking It down, what was said? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q You were telling the truth at that time, weren't you? 
A Yes, sir. Well then, you must have been there. 

Q You didn't tell me you actually saw the man that asked for the 
whistle, did you? 

A I think I did, 

Q You just listen here now and see if this isn't what you said, 
see if these aren't the questions I asked you and the a nswers, 
and I will read this to you, and you see if these aren't the 
answers you gave. "You did not see the man who asked about 
the whistle? A No, sir, I didn't look up, Q Do you know 
if it was Luther Larkin? A No, sir, I couldn't be posi- 
tive, all I know is v;hat he asked about a whistle, Q, It 
might have been Larkin for all you know? A I don't know 
who it was, he just said, "You got a whistle,' just like 
that," Isn't that the way you testified? 

A It sounded like that, 

q, Isn't that the way you testified then? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q, And you didn't actually see Larkin at all? 

A Didn't actually see him, well, you know a fellow's voice, 

knowing it, : ^ 

Q But you didn't actually see Larkin? 
A No, sir, \ , ■, 

Defense: That's all, 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION ' 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q How long have you known Luther Larkin 's voice? 

A Oh, I have known Luther Larkin and his voice, it wasn't too 
very long, I really don't know when he came in the Company. 

Q, But ever since he camo in the Company? 

A Yes, sir, s. 

Q, All right, v/hoso voice was that you heard asking for the 
whistle? 

A It sounded like his voice, 

630 



Q Is there any doubt in your mind about it? 

A No, sir, there ain't any doubt in my mind about it. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Would you mind letting me see that 
statement, counsel? 

Defense: At a later time. Colonel. I don't think you 
have any right to my statements. You have not furnished me v/ith 
any v/hen I have asked you for thera, , _ 

Trial Judge Advocate : You have not asked me for such a 
statement as that, I told you that I did not have anything of 
the nature you v/ere asking for, not a one, I have no further 
questions. 

President: Are there any further questions by the Coiirt? 
If not, v/itness excused. 

Witness excusedi 

Defense: Does the Cotirt intend to take a recess shortly? 

President: Court v^ill take its regular fifteen-minute 
recess at this time. 

Court was in recess for fifteen minutes and proceedings 
resumed as follows: 



631 



The Court roconvenod, following the r&cess, at 3:30 p.m., 
27 November 1944. 

President: Is the prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Ready, sir. 

President? Is the defense ready? 

Defense: Ready, sir. 

President: The Court v/ill come to order. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record show each of the 
accused are present, all members of the Court, and the personnel 
defending the accused and the personnel of the prosecution, 

Tlie reporter was also present. 

Private Jack Chapman, 651st Port Company, a v/itness for the 
prosecution, v/as sworn and testified, as follov/s: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q State your name, 

A Private Jack Chapman. 

President:, V/hat is that? 

Trial Judge Advocate : Private Jack Chapman. 

President: Speak up so I can hear you and the Captain at 
the end can hear, you. Chapman, 

Q, And what is your organization? 
A 651st Port Company, sir, 

Q, And your station? 

A Stationed at Port Lawton — I moan Camp George Jordan, 

Q You are now at Cor.ip aeor0;G Jordan? 
A Yes. 

Q Headquarters detachment? 
A Yes. 

Q, Were you stationed at Port Lav/ton during the month of Au,gust 

1944? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q, Do you remember the incident when some Negro soldlors entered 

the Italian area at Fort Lawton on August 14, 1944? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q All right, speak out nov/. After that time v/ore you or not 

632 



-^r 



placed in a camp stockade? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q, Were there or not a nijimber of other Negro soldiers also placed 

In a camp stockade? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Now, while you were in a camp stockade did you ever hear the 

accused Willie Curry make any statement? 
A Yes, sir, about that jeep, sir. 

Lav/ Member: ^JVhat is that? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, sir, he said, about that jeep, 
but I am asking him first if he made a statement, 

Q, Nov;, what, if anything, did you hear Willie Curry say? 

Law Member: It is distinctly understood this conversa- 
tion in the camp stockade is taken by the court as a declaration 
against interest and not binding on any of the other forty-one 
dofendents, • 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is right, sir, 

Q What, if anything, did you hoar the accused Willie Curry say? 
A I heard him say he was in that jeep; that is all, 

Q Did he say v/hero he v/as in that jeep; I moan, on what occasion? 
A Ho just said by the tent. That is all I heard. 

Law Member: By a tent, 

Q All right. Nov/, do you know the accused Johnnie Ceaser? 
A I just met him in the stockade. 

Lav; Member: Will you talk up. 

A I just mot him since I have been in the stockade, 

Q, Nov;, about hov; long v.oro you and Johnnie Ceaser together in 
the stockade? 

A We wore put in the stockade --I don't knov;, it v;as a few 
days after that there riot they put us in the stockade, I 
believe it v;as on Monday, I believe, v;e v/ere put in there, 
I don't know for sure, but the next coming Monday, 

Q And about hov; long did you stay together in the stockade? 
A Well, up until they got us out, and I think on the 7th of 
October or 6th of October, 

Q Nov;, during that time did you hoar the accused Johnnie 

Ceaser make any statement about this Incident in the Italian 
area? 

A No, sir, not exactly, 

633 



w 



Q, V/ell, what. If anything, did you hear Johnnie Ceasersay? 
A Well, I never heard just a certain one say, you know, about 
that. That he was In the area, that is all I heard. 

Q, That is all you heard him say, that he was in the area? 
A Yes- 

Q All right. Do you knovi' the accused V/lllie G, Jones? 
A Do I know him? 

Q Yesp 

A I met him since I have been in the stockade. 

Q And while you were in the stockade with the accused William 

G^ Jones ^ did you at any time hear him make any statement? 
A I heard him say he had that ax, 

Q Heard him say what? 
A That he had that ax, 

Q All right-, While you were in the stockade there did you 

ever hear the accused John Hamilton make a statement? 
A Said he had lost his dogtag, sir, 

Q, He said he had lost his dogtag? 
A Yes, 

Q, Did you while you v/ere in the stockade hear the accused Herman 

Johnson mt^ice any statement? 
A Said he lost his trench tool, sir, 

Q Said he had lost his trench tool. 

Trial Judge Advocate: (To Court) Did you understand that? 

Law Member: Who was that? 

Trial Judge Advocr^te* Herman Johnson. You may have the 
witness. 

CROSS-EXAMINATION 

Questions by Defense: . , 

Q Did you hear Montgomery make any remark? 

A I have heard him say he told some, "That's an American 

soldier; don't bother him; go on.'' I heard him say he told 
some of the rest of the beys don't bother -one American 
fellow because ho was an American soldxor.- 

Q Where did this conversation take place? 

A That was in the tent oat in the stockade at Fort Lawton, 

Q, In a tent? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q How big a tent? 

654 




A A little bitty tent. Not over five men put in it, 

Q And what men v;ero in the tent? ■ •' 

A Let's see, William G, Jones, Cirry, Montgomery, and Battle, 
Thomas Battles 

Q Battle? ■ - . ■ 

A Yes, sir, 

Q And who else? 

A That is about all I remember, '■ 

Q, Those all the men that were in the tent? ' ■"' 
A They didn't stay in there. All that stayed in that tent was 
me and Battle, and Ctirry and Mathis, 

Q, Chapman, Battle, Ctirry — 
A Yes, sir, 

Q, — (continuing) and Mathis? 

A Yes, sir, and that was all — and Baker. Pellov; by the name 
of Otis Baker. 

Q And Baker? ' ' _' 

A Yes, Them others were just visitors, 

Q Hov; big a tent is that? 

A It's a little tent, . '■ '; 

Q, Well, about what is the size of it? 

A I don't know. I guess in the stockade — 

Q, (Interrupting) Just you start up here, at the table here, 
and just pace off about the dimensions of the tent. Is it 
a square tent? 

A Yes, sir, a square tent, 

Q, Well, suppose you come up here and start off at this table 
and pace dov/n about the distance, the length of one of the 
sides of the tent. Come on. Turn around and start right 
here and pace down that way, 

A (Witness starts pacing distance as requested, ) 

Q, Wait a minute. Cone up here and start on a line even with 

the front of that table. 
A (Witness paces as requested.) About this long, sir, 

Q That is about seven paces on each side of the tent, 
A Yes, it v/as about square, 

Q, Square; seven paces. All right, sit down. That tent that 
you say that you were in was about seven paces long on each 
side? 

A Yes, sir, 

635 



Q And the tent v/as square? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q, Well, about what day was that that this conversation took 

place? 
A I don't know, sir, I don't know just v/hat day, 

Q Well, about how many days after you had boon put in the 

stockade? 
A That v/as about, I v;ould say, ton- fifteen days or tv/enty 

days. 

Q Ten or fifteen, or twenty days after. You were identified 

when you went through the show-up yourself, v/eren't you? 
A No, sir, not as I knov;, sir, 

Q, You don't know that you wore identified? 

A No, sir, ■ 

Q You were hold in the stockade? 

A Yes, sir, ■ 

Q You were pulled out of the line? 
A Yes, sirs 

Q, As you Vifcre passing before some of the Italians down there 

you were ptilled out of the line? 
A Yesy sir, 

Q, And held in a i'oom someplace? 
A Yes, siro 

Q, And you were later kept with the rest of the men in the 

stockade? 
A Yes, sir* 

Q Well, what time of day was this that this conversation took 

place? In the morning or in the afternoon? 
A It v/as in the afternoon about 3:00. 

Q Middle of the afternoon. And v/heroabouts were you in the 

tent? 
A Under the bed — in the bunk, 

Q, You were in the biink? 

A Yes. • ■ 

Q Were there blanks in the tents or cots? 
A There was cots. 

Q Cots? 
A Yes, 

Q Single cots? 
A Yes, sir, 

656 



i 



Q How many of them v/ere there in the tent? 
A Five, sir. Let's see. No, it was five, 

Q All right, let's come over here by me for a moment. Let's 
take this sheet of paper and assvime that is the tent for 
the moment, V/as the door on one of those sides or in the 
corner? 

A The door was right on one side like this, and the door came 
inhere (indicating), 

Q Door came in here* Well, let's write the word "door" in 

here then, shall we. \l/hat was the size of that door approxi- 
mately? 

A Just about common size door* 

Q About three or four feet wide? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q, Was that a wooden floor in this tent? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q, Wooden side v;all3? 

A Wood side walls about like that (indicating), 

Q, How many bunks in the tent — cots? 
A Five, sir, 

Q, Five. And about how v/ere they located? 

A Two of them this way (indicating), and one this way (indica- 
ting), and two on this side (indicating), 

Q Two here. All right, you show me, 
A (Witness indicates.) 

Q Were the cots on the side, were they end to end? 
A Yes, sir, the cots was end to end, 

Q End to end. And did they come up right against the sides on 

the ends of the tent? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q, So if v/e draw one cot about in here (indicating), v/oiild that 

be about right? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q And draw another one in here (indicating), 
A Yes, sir. 

Q And one across this way (indicating)? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q And then there vms two more down this side (indicating)? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Let's write the word "cot*^ on it, shall v/e. Now, v/hat was 
in the center of the tent, if anything? 

637 



i 

A A heater. ' 1 

Q, A heater. Y/as that a wood and coal stove? ' j 

A Coal stove, 1 

I 
q About the center? * 

A Yes, sir* 

Q How hig a stove was that? , 4. -w 

A Just a little one. Ahout as big around as a wash tub. A 

■ '' 
I 

Q And how high did it come? - J 

A About that high (indicating). 

Q About three feet. 

A Had a box on the bottom of It, 

Q Had- a box on the bottom of it it was setting on? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q And there was a pipe came up through the tent? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q, Any other furniture of any kind in this tent? 
A That's all, 

Q No chairs? , ^ ^^ in 

A I believo they did have a bench against the walli 

Law Member: You believe they had a what? 

Q A bench over against the wall near the door? 
A Yes, 

Q Let's write "bench" in there. Was there a bench on the other 

side? 
A No, sir, 

Q Vi/hlch one of these cots were you on? 

A This one here (indicating on rough diagram). 

Q You were on this cot. All right, wc^will write "Chapman" on 

there. And v/ho was on this cot (indicating)? 
A Baker , 

Q Baker was on this cot. Let's right his name on it. V/ho was 

over on this cot (indicating)? 
A Thomas Battle. 

Q Battle. Was that all in there at the time? 
A No, sir. Robert Mathis was in there. 

President: Speak up a little louder so we can all hear what 
you are talking about, 

638 



Q Mathls. Is this Mathls' (Indicating)? 

A Yes. 

Q Whose cot was this at the end (indicating)? 

A Willie S. Curry here (indicating). 

Q That was Curry's, V/as Baker in there at the time? 

A No, sir. 

Q Baker wasn't there. Was Curry there at the time? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q, Was Ma this there at the time? 

A No. 

Q Was Battle there at the time? 

A Yes, sir. - - 

Q Battle was there? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Was Battle lying down on his cot or sitting on it? 

A They were all there (indicating). 

Q, They were all standing around the heater? 

A Yes. 

Q Where were you? 

A (Witness indicates.) 

Q, Lying on your cot? 

A Yes, 

Q Were you the only man laying on a cot? ^' . 

A Yes, sir, 

Q Hov/ were you laying; on your back or on your stomach? 

A I was laying there covered up, 

Q, Where vms your head; which direction? 

A My head was this way (indicating), 

Q Your head was down here. All right, I will v/rite the word 

"head" there. V/ere you asleep or av;ake? 

A I was awake. 

Q How long had you been avirake? 

A I woke up just a little while before, 

Q A little while before? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q The conversation wake you up? ' ' ■ 

A Yes, sir, 

Q, Did you look at the group standing around the stove? 

639 



A I looked at them. 

Q Where . was Ctirry? 
A He was there, 

Q Where was Curry? . 

A Standing in the group. 

Q I understand they were standing in the group, but you looked 

at the group also? 
A Yes. 

Q Where was Curry? 

A They were all standing in the tent there in a group. 

Q Can't you toll mo whereabouts Curry was standing around the 

stove? 
A I couldn't say, no. They were just right all bundled up 

there by the heater, 

Q Where was Ceaser standing? ■ 

A They was just all in a little huddle, 

Q All right. Who v/as the man closest to you? 
A Montgomery, I believe. 

Q Montgomery was the man closest to you? 
A Yes, sir.. 

Q All right ^ let's locate Montgomery in here. 
A That was just in the group there, 

Q Are you able to tell us where Montgomery v;as? 
A He was standing over next to the stove, 

Q About here (indicating on rough diagram)? 
A Yes, siri 

Q All rights Let's put an "M" for Montgomery* Tifhere was 

Curryt 
A He was right over here, sir (indicating). 

Q About right over v'Lere? 
A (Witness indicates.) 

Q Right here (indicating on rough diagram)? 
A Yes, sir, right about right there. 

Q All right. Let's put a "c" there. V/here was Ceaser? 

A About — I am not sure — about right in here (indicating)^ 

Q You think Ceaser was a bout right in here (indicating on rough 
diagram). Let's put a "CE" for Coascr. All right. Where 
was Jones? 

A About right in the middle 

640 



Q Jones v/as about in the middle. Lot's put a "j" for Jones 

there. And where was Johnson? * 

A He wasn't in there, ■ ■ 

Q Johnson wasn't in there that day? 

A No, sir. Vilhen I heard him say that was a little while after, 

Q, Johnson vi/asn't a part of this conversation you testified 

you heard? 
A V/ell, I heard — yes, I hoard him say that. 

Trial Judge Advocate: He didn't say that. 

Defense: Maybe I am mistaken, 

Q, Anybody else in here at the time? 
A That's about all I remember. 

Q Did those men all come into the tent together? 
A I don't know; I v;as asleep, 

Q You were asleep when thoy come in? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Wcio v/as the first man jon hen.rd say anything? 

A Well, you know about hov/ conversation goes along — 

Law Member: You have to speak up, 

A (Continuing) and they wore talking, and I don't know who 
was Just the first man to say anytlng, 

Q, Were you asloop v/hen they first came into the tent? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q, And' then you av;akened? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q What was the first thing you hoard said after you av/akenod? 

A I heard someone say the Italian stuck his head out the 

window, and one of them say, "I hit him", I don't know 

which one say he did. 

Law Member: One said what? 

The Witness: He hit an Italian on the head with a stick, 

Q One of them said he hit an Italian on the head with a stock? 
A Yes. 

Q, And you don't knov/ which one it v/as? 

A No, sir, - • . 

Q What is the next thing you heard said? 
A I hoard Curry say he was in that jeep. 

641 



5 You heard Curry say then he ran the tent into a Jeep? 
A Yes, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: The jeep into a tent. 

The V/itness: The jeep into a tent, yes, sir. 

Defense: I stand corrected. Colonel. 

Q, And what is the next tiling you heard said? 
A I heard Montgomery say he told them guys not to htirt the 
other soldier because he v/as an American soldier. 

Q No other conversation took place between any of those men? 
A V/hat you mean> no other conversation? 

Q Well, was that all the conversation you heard; just these 

things you have told Colonel Jaworski about? 
A Yes, just what I told the Colonel about, 

Q You didn't hear any other conversation besides that? 
A No^ sir, 

Q They weren't talking about anything else? 
A Just what I told that Colonel, Lt, Colonel; that is all ■. 
sir. 

Q How long did they talk there? 

A They were in there about ten minutes. 

Q Talked about ten minutes? • ' 

A Yes. 

Q Take them ton minutes to say what you have told hero today? 
A No, I guess not take that long. You know how a bunch of 
people aro when they get to sitting down and talking. 

Q But nothing else was said besides the remarks that you gave? 
A Yes, something else vv'as raid, 

Q Well, what was the next tiling you heard said? 

A I heard William G. Jones say he had that ax; that was all. 

Q Vftiat is the next thing? 

A Well, it wasn't in that tent, but I heard Hamilton say he 
had lost his dogtag, 

Q Now, as you lay in your cot there, could you have a plain 

view of these men? 
A What do you mean by plain view? 

Q I mean, could you see each one of them as they spoke? 
A No, sir, I was lying there covered up under the blanket. 

Q All you could hear was conversation, was it? 
A Yes, sir. 

642 



Q And you didn't see the men? 
A Yes, I seen the mens, yest 

Q And you saw each one as he spoke? 

A No, sir, I didn't see each one as ho spoke, 

Q Then you just hoard a voice; you didn't see the man that said 

it, is that ri^ht? 
A I seen them after thej^ got ready to go out? 

Q You saw them after they got ready to go out? 
A Yes. 

Q But as the men, individual men spoke, you didn't see them 

as they spoke? 
A No, sir, I didn't sec thorn* 

Q No. V/as there any men in the tent besides the men you have 

already described? 
A That is all I can remonb';r, sir. 

Q Which man was it, again, that was the closest to you? 
A Montgomery, sir. 

Q And which man was the farthest away? 
A As I can remember, it v/as Jones, sir. 

Q You can remember it was Jones? 

A Yes. . 

Q And who was standing in the center closest to the stove? 
A I believe it was Ceaser, sir. 

Q You believe it was Ceaser? 
A Yes. 

Q, And v/ho was standing in the center farthest away from the 

stove? 
A I just can't remember now, sir. 

Defense: I will ask to have this marked as Defense's next 
exhibit, if the Court please. 

Law Member; I Avish ^rou would ink it before you put it in 
evidence. 

Defense: Sir? 

Law Member: ¥/ill you ink it? You are offering it as an 
exhibt? 

Defense; Yes. You mean trace it in ink? 

Law Member: Yes, I think it should be to offer any lasting 
effect. The exhibit offered will be received in evidence as 

643 



Defense Exhibit H, and It is requested that you have that 
Inked or ink it yourself because that must be preserved. 

Defense: All right, sir. 

A rough diagram was then marked Defense Exhibit 11 and 
received in evidence. 

Defense: I have no further questions. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I have just a question or two. 

REDIISCT EX/ii! I NATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

q Private Chapman, while you were in the stockade with these 
men did you have occasion — 

Law Member: Excuse me. Describe that exhibit a little 
more, will you. Major, for the record. 

Defense: Well, this is the drawing made during the testi- 
mony of the witness Chapman on a piece of scratch paper that 
supposedly represents the Interior of an Army tent, showing five 
cots, a stove, a bench, and has the door indicated and also the 
location of the individuals described by the witness. I didn't 
shov; it to the Colonel. I am sorry, (Defense Counsel hands 
Defense Exliibit E to the Trial Judge Advocate.) 

q While you were in the stockade did you or not become acquainted 
with the voices of these soldiers about whom vou told the 
Court today? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q And you told the Court it was October 6 when you were released 
from the stockade, Nov/, do ^'■ou remember about when it vms 
when you v/ere placed in the stockade? 

A It was about six-seven days after that. 

Q After this incident, this; riot, occurred? 

A Yes, sir, when v/e were in the stockade at Port Lawton. 

Q It vrould be from August 20th to about October 6th. 

Trial Judge Advocate-: I believe that is all. 

President: I have a question. 

EXiW.INATION BY THE COURT 

Questions by President: • ,■ 

q Did you hear Hamilton say v/here he lost his dogtags? 
A No, sir. In that area is the only thing I knov/, 

644 



Q Did he say ho lost then in that area? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Did you hoar Johnson say whore he lost his trenching tool? 
A That seune place, sir; in that area, 

Q No question in your mind that they were talking about that 

area that we are talking about? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q No question in jonr mind they were talking about that area when 
they v;ore talking there; they wore talking about the — I will 
withdraw the question. 

Questions by Major MacLennan: 

Q You mentioned a conversation of Willie G. Jones where he said 

he had an ax. Vi/here did he have the ax? Did you gather that 
from the conversation? 

A He just said he had an ax. That is all I heard him say, sir. 

Q And Willie Curry was in this conversation; described his 

driving a jeep. Did you gather v/here that was? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Where? 

A It was down there at that tent, I don't know just where that 
tent was at. 

Q Do you have any idea? 
A It was in that area. 

Q In what ai'oa? 

A Down near that Italian area. 

Questions by President: ' 

Q What was the general coi.versation about when all these 

statements wore made? 
A It was just about that row that v/as going on down there, sir, 

Q They wore talking about the rov; during the conversation? 
A Yes, sir. 

President: Any fui^ther questions? Appears to be none. 
The witness will be excused. That is all. Chapman, 

There being no further questions, the witness was excused 
and withdrew, 

T-5 Harvey Banks, Headquarters and Headquarters Detachment, 
a witness for the prosecution, was sworn and testified, as 
follows: 

■ ' • 645 



DIRECT EXMIIHATION -;_ 

"Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q, State your name, please, 
A T-5 Harvey Banks, 

And your organization. 

A It is Headquarters and Headquarters Detacliment. 

Q, And your station. 

A Port Lawton -- Camp George Jordan. 

Q Were you ever stationed at Port Lav/ton? 
A Yes, sir< 

^ Were you stationed there during the month of August 1944? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Do you recall the incident on the night of August 14 when 

some Negro soldiers entered the Italian area at Fort Lawton? 
A Pardon, sir? 

Q I say, do you remember that incident; do you remem>^er the 
occasion when some Negro soldiers v/ent down into the Italian 
area at Port Lawton? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q In what barracks did -^ou stay? 
A In 917, sir. 

q In 7 what? • 

A Oh, 719. 

Q, Upstairs or dovmstalrs? 
A Downstairs, 

Q Did you hear a v/histle that night? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Was it blown one time or more than one time? 
A Vifell, I heard it as much c.s twice, sir, 

Q, Now, did you leave the barracks after hearing a whistle? 
A No, sir, 

Q Did you stay in the barracks that evening? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q The entire evening? 

A No, sir, not the entire evening, because we v/ent out and 
drawed some of our clothes that afternoon. 

Q Nov/, after you heard this whistle blo'.vn did you continue to 

stay in your barracks or did you leave? 
A I was in bed at the time the v/histle blew, sir. 

646 



Q Did you got out of bod? ' " 

A No, sir. 

Q Did you hear any Negro soldiers return to tho barracks after, 

some time after, tho whistle had blown? 
A No, sir, I didn't. 

Q Woll, how long was it before -- did you stay awake for av/hile? 
A No, sir, not vory long, sir* 

Q Do you know the accused Nelson Alston? 
A Do I know him, sir? 

Q Yes, I asked you do you know him? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q You knovi? Nelson Alston? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Woll, did you hoar him make any statement that night? 
A After they had come back down from tho Italian area. 

Q After v/ho had come back? 

A Nelson Alston and the boys that were down there. 

Q What, if anything, did you hoar Nelson Alston say? 
A I only heard him say that all boys that stayed there were 
yellow; that didn't go down thero with them. 

Q Who did you hear say that? 
A Nelson Alston. 

Q Nelson Alston. 

Trial Judge Advocate i You may have tho witness. 

CR0SS-^2UVIIINATI0N 

Questions by Defense; 

Q About what time was that that you hoard that statement. 

Banks? 
A I don't know, sir. It was very lato, 

Q Well, about what time? 

A Well, as far as I can, as close as I can guess, I would 
say about 12-1:00, 

Q Is that all tho conversation you heard at that time? 
A Well, that is just the remark that ho made at the time, 

Q He made it to you? 

A No, sir, he wasn't talking directly to me, 

Q VJho was ho talking to? 

A Well, mc and George Jackson; wc was in the bunks together. 

647 



Hg was over Nelson's. He slept up over Nelson Alston. 

Q Did you hear Qreshaiu make any romark that evening? 
A No, sir, 

Q Hear him the next morning make any romark? 

A No noro than when Lt. Kapitz was abusing them about how they 
had disgraced the Company and how they had tore down all the 
morale that ho was hoping to build up for the Company, and he 
was abusing them about the way that they had did In such a 
short time of destroying everything that he had workud hard 
for for six months — that wo had worked fori There was 
Nelson Alston and Sergeant Howard — 

Q I just asked you about Sergeant Gresham. 

A Sorgeant Gresham — they wore swapping words between the two -- 

Law liomber: (Interrupting) That is the Lieutenant and the 
Sergeant wore sv/apping words? 

The Yifitness: No, Sir, Those wore just a Sorgeodit and this 
Corporal. Thc^r said, "You were down there". 

Q Did you hoar Sergeant Gresham admit ho was dovm there? 
A Yes, sir. 

Defense: That is all. 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advociito: 

Q Nov/, v/ho else v/aa present at that conversation besides ' 
Sorgeant Groshom that M-.jor Becks just asked you about? 

A That was Nelson Alston, and Sergeant Howard, and Sergeant 
Gresham and Luther Lark in. They were all standing ahead 
at the formation. 

Q Now, did Sergcrait Grosliam toll you when ho wont down there? 
A No, sir. 

Q Now, what, if anything, did you hear Corporal Luther Larkin 

say? 
A That is the onliost thing I heard then say, just swapping 
the v;ord3 between themselves. 

Q Vifhat did you hoar Corporal Luther Larkin say? 

Dofonse: He already answered that question, if the Court 
ploaso. 

A Vi^oll, ho just say, "You v;oro down there," and ho says, "Well, 
you wore too." They wore swapping words between thomsolvos. 

Law Momb£>ri That was botwoon Larkin and Gresham? 

648 




The Witness: Yes, and between Nelson Alston and Sergeant 

Howard , 

Trial Ju':';ge Advocate; I believe that is all. 

Defense: That is all. 

President: Any questions by the Court? The witness will 
be excused. 

There being no further questions, the witness was excused 
and withdrevr. 

T-5 Jommie Macl: Sanders, Headquarters and Headquarters 
Detachment, Camp George Jordan, a witness for the prosecution, 
was sworn and testified, as follows: 

DIRECT EX:UUnATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q State your noane. 

A Johnnie Mack Sanders. 

Q, And your grade? ~' ■ 

A T-5, sir. _ '■ 

Q, And your organization' * ■ 
A 650th Port Company. 

Q, Is that your present organization? 

A No, sir. I am stationed at Headquarters and Headquarters 
Detachment. It is at Camp Jordan, 

Q At v/hat station? 

A At Camp Jordan, sir. 

President: Just a minute. Give us the name of this witness 
again. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Johnnie tlack Sanders, 

Lav; Kember: Sanders is the last name? 

Trial Judge Advocate: That's right. 

President: T-5. Let's get the rest of it. 

Q, Nov/ that Sanders is the last name, S-a-n-d-e-r-s? ^ 

A Yes, sir. 

President: V/Iiat is the rank? 

Trio.l Judge Advocate: T-5, sir, 

649 



President: And oi\_;arilzation? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Headquarters and headquarters 
Detachment at Camp George Jordan. 

President: All right. 

Q, Were you ever with the 650th Port Company? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Stationed where? 

A Port Lawton, Washington. 

Q Were you stationed at Port Lav/ton during the month of August 
1944? 

A Yes, sir, I v/as, 

Q You remember the incident that occurred at Fort Lawton when 
some Negro soldiers entered the Italian area on August 14, 
1944? 

A Yes, I do, sir. 

Q Were you sometime after that time placed in a stockade? 
A Yes, I v/as, sir, 

Q, How, while you v/ere in the stockade did you ever have occasion 
— let me ask you something before I get to the stockade. What 
barracks do you stay in? 

A I stayed in Headquarters barracks. I don't remember the 

number, sir, because we hadn' t been in there so very long, sir, 

Q, I wonder if you could find that. Come over hero and let me 
show you this map. This is Prosecution Exhibit 2. This Is 
Lawton Road runs along here and here in Virginia Avenue, see 
(indicating), 

A Yes, sir, 

Q How, you know where the mess hall was of the 578th Port 

Company? 
A Yes, sir, I think I do, sir, 

q Well, this is that mess hall, 700, see (indicating). 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Now, do you know where down here, in what barracks it was, 
you were staying? 

Lav/ Member: 670 is his orderly room, wasn't it -- 670?' 

Trial Judge Advocf.'.te: I think that's right. 

A Is this the road going towards the PX and this one going up 
towards the Paget Sound (indicating)? 

Q I think that's right. 

650 



A Well, this is the barracks I v/as in, sir (Indicating). 

Q 665? 

A Yes, sir, 

q While in that barracks did you hear a whistle blowi that 

night? 
A No, sir, I ^/a3n«t in that barracks Yrhen I heard the v/hlstle 

blowed, 

Q lllhere were you? 

A I v/as in one of ouv other barracks, sir, 

(l Do you remember --/hat barracks that r/as? 
A No, sir, I don't remember the number, sir. 

o Well, with respect to where that mess hall is we were just 

talking about. Do you remember whether it was some distance 

away or close to that m^-ss hall? 
A It was some distance av/ay, sir. I tell you, sir, it was the 

third barracks from the barracks I lived"' in. Going that v/ay, 

sir (Indicating), 

Q All right. Going what way? Towards the PX? 
A Yes, sir, going dovm tovards the PX. 

Q What were you doing there? 
A I v/as playing cards, sir. 

Q And did you or not hear a whistle blow? 
A Yes, I heard a whistle blown. 

0, Well, now let's get to the time that you were in the stockade. 

Do you know the accused Willie Prevost? 
A Yes, I know him. 

Q Did you or not hear V/lllie Prevost ^lake any statement v/hile 

you were in the stockade? 
A Yes, sir. 

q What did he say? 

A He say he went dov.ai ?/he ve they were fighting. 

Q Did he say v/hether or not he had anything? 
A Yes, sir, he did say he had something. 

Q, What did he say he had? 

A He say he had a stick, - 

Q Now, while you were doym in that stockade did you hear the 

accused Leslie Stewart make any statement? 
A Yes, sir, I did, sir, 

Q And what, if anything, did the accused Leslie Stewart say?' 

651 



A He say he was dov/n there too, slv, 

Q, All right. Do you know the accused Willie Curry? 
A Yes, I knov/ him. 

Q While you were there in the stockade did you hear the accused 

Willie Curry make any statement? 
A Yes, I heard hln say he 'vas dovm there. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right, you may have the v/itness. 

CROSS-EXAMINATION _ 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Anybody else say they were do'wn there? 
A Yes, sir, I heard Willie Ellis. 

Q Willie Ellis? • - • 

A Yes. 

Lav/ lueraber: TiVho? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Willie Ellis. 

The Witness: Ellis. 

President: Just a minute. For the sake of the record, is 
that the accused Russel L, Ellis? 

Trial Judge Advocate: No, sir. Willie Ellis v/as one of 
the witnesses who testified in this case, one of the Government's 
witnesses. 

Q Now, have you told the Court all the truth about everything 

that you heard Prevost and Stewart say? 
A Yes, sir, I did, sir. 

Q You have? 
A Yes. 

Q Do you remember v.'hen I talked to you dorm at Camp Jordan 

about a wekk or ten days ago? 
A Yes, I think I do, sir. 

Q, I questioned you at that time, didn't I? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Captain Noyd was present there? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q, And we had a stenographer that was taking dovm the notes? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q And I asked you about \7hat you had board any m.en say, didn't 
I? 

652 



A Yes, sir, 

Did you tell me anything about Curry at that time? 
A I don't reraember if I did or not, sir. 

'^ Didn't jovl tell me at that time that you heard Stewart say 
that he v/as dovm there helping Pin'aiey take one of the 
American soldiers out \Yho ivas hurt? 

A Yes, I did tell you that. 

Q And didn't you tell me at that time that you heard Prevost 

say that he Y;as down there but it was all over by the 
time he got there? 

A Yes, sir, I say that. . , • 

n Yes. 

Law Member: That was Prevost? 

Trial Judge Aiivocahe: Willie Pi'evost he just asked about, 
yes, sir. 

(I Didn't 1 ask you this question also: "You never heard any 
man admit that he v:as in the Italian area?" and your answer 
was: "Yes, sir, Willie Ellis, Willie Prevost and' Leslie 
Ste7/art"? 

A I think I did tell you that those were the fellov/s say they 
were down there, fiir, 

Q, And then didn't I ask you: "These vrere the only three whom 
you hoard admitting of being down in that area?" and you 
ansv/ered: "Yes, sir, those were the only three that admitted 
it," Didn't I ask you that question and you give me that 
answer? 

A Yes, I think I did tell you those were the only ones that 
I remember, 

Q You didn't sa^- anything about Curry at that time? 

A IIo. I remember I tried to think and 2^ou asked me to think, 

Q And I asked you to thin'"? 

A Yes, sir, you did, and .t tried all I could too. 

Defense: T'lat is all. 

REDIRECT EXilMINATIOII 

Qmeations by Trial Judge .Vclvocate: , • 

Ci Are you or not positive Willie Gurry made that statement? 
A Mo, sir? 

0„ I say, are you or not positive; are you positive of it? 
A Yes, I am positive of It, sir, 

653 



Q All right. Now you told the Court just a moment ago, in 
response to Counsel's question, that Willie Prevost said 
that by the time he got there it was over with, 

A That is what he told us. 

Q, Now, arc you positive, are you, that Willie Prevost told 

at that time what he had with him when ho went down there? 
A Yes, sir, ho told mo. 

Q And what did he say he had with him? 
A He say he had a stick. 

Trial Judge Advocate: No further questions, sir. 

RECROSS-EXAMINATION 

Questions by Defense: . . 

Q One further question. Sanders — 

Law Mohiber: Just one nlnute. Tell me what you told Major 
Beeks when Major Becks asked you some questions about Stev/art. 

The Witness: He asked me, and I told him, sir, he asked 
me, sir, did I hear Stewart say he was down there, and I told 
him I did, sir. He asked me what did Stewart say he did and I 
told him I heard Stev/art say he helped John Plnkney take one 
of thc) fellows out that v/as injured. 

Q, And that was an American soldier j helped take an American 

soldier out? 
A He didn't say who it was, sir. 

Law Member: Did you read any questions pertaining to 
any other accused other than Stewart and Provost, Major? 

Defense: Except the negative questions pertaining to the 
three. 

Law Member: I moan thu direct questions and ansv/crs only 
pertained to Stev/art and Prevost? 

Defense: That is correct. 

President: Are there any other questions by the Court? 

Defense; I v/antod to ask one further question. 

President: All right, 

Q Sanders, at the time you got over in front of barracks 719 
was there a considerable crowd gatherud over there at that 
time? 

A Yes, there was, sir, I imagine there was about tv/elve, ten- 
tv/olvo or fifteen soldiers there, 

654 



Q Could you hear at that time considerable noise down there in 

the Italian area? 
A No, sir, I didn't hear any noise. 

Q Had a lot of the men gone dovm to the Italian area at that 

time? 
A I don't know, sir. If they did, I didn't see them. 

Q How long did you remain in front of 719? 

A Well, I would say about three or four, maybe five minutes, 

Q Three-four minutes. Any cars driven up by that time? 
A Yes, sir, I guess it v/as a staff car. They had some m'p.'s 
in it. 

Q Staff cars with some M.P. 's? 

A Yes, and another jeep, I don't know what kind of car you 
call it. 

Q You saw Booker Townsell standing in the crowd at that time 

when you were over there? 
A I don't remember exactly whether Booker Townsell, I think 

it was Booker Townsell. 

Q You told me when I talked to you before it was Booker 

Townsell, 
A I don't think I told you positive it v/as Booker. 

Q Do you remember saying you sav/ Addison George and Booker 

Townsell standing over there? 
A I think I told you I thought I did. I don't remember seeing 

any persons for sure, 

Q You said, "I think I sav/ Addison George and Booker Townsell." 
A That is what I said^ sir. 

Defense: All right. That is all. 

President: The witness will be excused. 

There being no further questions, the witness was excused 
and withdrew. 

President: Nov/ it is 4:20. The Court will recess until 
9:00 tomorrov/ morning. 

Ihe Court thereupon recessed at 4:20 p.m., 27 November 1944, 
to reconvene at 9:00 a.m., 28 November 1944. 

LEON JAWORSKI 
Lt. Colonel, J.A.G.D. 
Trial Judge Advocate 

655 



Fort Lav^ton Staging Area 
Fort Lawton, Washington 
'■ November 28, I9U 

9:00 a.m. 

The Court met, pursuant to adjournment, all of the personnel 
of the Court, Prosecution, and Defense, who v;ere present at the 
close of the previous session in this case, being present. 

President: Is the Prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: We are ready, sir. i 

President: Defense ready to proceed? 

Defense: Yes, the Defense is ready, sir. 

President: Court will come to order. 

The roll of the accused was called by the Assistant Trial 
Judge Advocate, all being present. 

Trial Judge Advocate: The record nay show that each of the 
accused is present, and that all members of the Court are present, 
and that all the personnel representing the Defense, and the 
personnel representing the Prosecution are present. 

Defense: Is your Italian v^/itness present? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, sir. I 

Private Imo llolgi, 28th Italian Quartermasters Service ^ 

Batalion, called as a witness by the Prosecution, was sworn and 
testified as follows, through an interpreter: 

DIRJICT X/LfilUNATION 

The Interpreter: I swear to tell the truth, he says. ^ 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

i 
Q, State your name? i 



A Nolgi, Imo. 

Q, That would be Imo Nolgi? 

A Imo Nolgi (spelling). 

Q, And your grade? ■ . 

A Private. 

Q, And your organization? 

A 28th Italian Quartermaster's Servi<^e Batallion Company, 



656 



^1 



Q Were you ever stationed at Fort Lawton? 



A Yes, 



'ti- 



Q Do you recall the incident on the night of August 14,194-4, 
when some negro soldiers entered the Italian area at Fort 
Lav; ton? 

A Yes. . ■ 

Q In which barracks did you stay? 

A I think it is 709 . 

Q "Vhat v;ere you doing when this incident occurred? 

A I was sleeping. 

Q Were you awakened by anything unusual? 

A The alarm that my friends, gave. 

Q After this alarm was given^ vjhat if anything did you hear? 

A At that time there, when the negroes were shouting, at that 
moment I got out of bed, 

Q Did or not anything transpire with respect to the barracks 
that you were sleeping in? 

A Not much in ray barracks. One window was broken. 

Q One window was broken. Did you know an Italian soldier by 
the name of Guglielmo Olivotto? 

A Very well. - .. 

Q How long had you known Guglielmo Olivotto? 

A All the time that I have been a prisoner. 

Q And how long was that prior to August 14, 1944? 

A Fourteen months. 

Q In what barracks did Guglielmo Olivotto sleep? 

A In mine. 

Q In what? 

A In mine. .. 

Q Same barracks as you. All right, now, did you or not see 
Olivotto on the evening in question when this incident 
occurred? 

657 . 



A Yes, sir, 

Q, What, if anything, did you see Ollvotto do after the negro 
soldiers were in the barracks? 

Defense: Now, if the Court please, before that question is 
answered, at this time the Defense objects to any evidence in 
connection with Olivotto, unless the Prosecution gives the Court 
the definite assurance that he is going to connect it up with the 
accused that are named in the specification to Charge 2. 

Law Member: Well, of course the evidence at this time is 
received subject to the condition that the death is connected In 
some way with the riot. 

Defense: Well, I don't even agree that this is the proper 
premise, if the Court please, upon which to bring out this 
testimony or upon which this testimony can be admitted. 

Law Member: Well, do you want to argue a question of law 
at this time? 

Defense: I want to point out the defense's position with 
respect to this evidence. The Prosecution has not seen fit to 
allege, insofar as the 92nd Article of War is concerned, that 
this was a death arising out of a riot. They have alleged 
a deliberate, premeditated and wilfull act of homicide on the 
part of three individuals. They could have alleged that this 
death resulted while a felony was being committed. But, if 
the Court please, these men are not even being charged with 
a felony. " 

Law Member: What you say is correct; they are not being 
charged with a felony. 

Defense: None of these men are being charged" with a 
felony, or with deliberate and premeditated wilfull act of 
homicide, except the three that are charged with murder, if the 
Court please. . 

Law Member: Do I understand the Defense counsel properly 
when I assume he is objecting to the form of the indictment. 
Charge 2? 

Defense: I am not objecting to the form of the indict- 
?f^ V t^u^ ?^^ 5^^^ ^P ^ specification in any manner they see 
tit, but having drawn up and relied on this form, any other 
type of proof would be at variance with it. 

Law Member: Well, I don't agree with that. Major. 

_ Defense: Well, I have made the objection. The objection 
IS in the record. 

Law Member: The evidence pertaining to Olivotto is re- 

658 



celved at this time subject, of course, to a motion to 
strike out If the death of Gugllelmo Olivotto Is not sub- 
sequently connected with the main Incident, 

Trial Judge Advocate: Hay I assure the Court at this 
time that the Prosecution expects to do this, of course. I am 
in this position. I cannot put on all of my evidence at one 
time. I have got to take it piecemeal and put it together. 

Law Member; Proceed. 

Trial Judge Advocate; V/hat v/as the question, let us 
get it in the exact words again, Mr Stoddard. 

(Last question read back.) 

A He jiiraped out of the window, 

Q Before he jumped out of the window, state Vifhether or not 
he said anything to you? 

A He said, "imo, are you coming, too?" 

Q State whether or not you followed Olivotto? 

A No. 

Q State what you did next after Olivotto jvimped from the 

windovif? 

A I saw, 1 savi? him in a moment, just a moment, when he 

jumped out of the v/indov/. 

Q After he jumped out of the window, state whether or not you 
saw him any more? 

A No. 

Q Now, at the time that Olivotto jumped out of the window and 
you said you saw him for a moment, state v;hether or not you 
looked at the ground that Olivotto jumped to? 

A Yes. 

Q All right, what did you see? 

A Negroes. 

Q V/hat were the negroes doing? 

A I just sav/ the thing for a moment, like I said before. I 
saw Olivotto among the negroes. After that, I didn't see 
anything else. 

Q All right. Nov/, come v/ith me to this map. Prosecution Ex- 
hibit No 2, and I want you to point out to us, or, I will 
point out to you that this is Barracks 700 in the Italian 

659 



area, and this Barracks 709, the barracks you said you 
slept in, and this is the orderly room. (Indicating to 
map) Now, I v/ish you would point out to the Court from 
which window Olivotto jumped. And stand off to the side 
so the Court may see. First, explain that to him. 

(Interpreter explains question to witness.) 
A The second. 
Q Now, let's see about your directions. 

President i -Vill you move over further so Vi/e can see. 

Trial Judge Advocate; Yes, move over so they can see. 

Q (continuing) Now, explain to iiim that this is Barracks 
710, and this is Barracks 708, and this is 709, and also 
explain where the orderly room is and those tents are 
there. 

Interpreter: Do you v;ant me to explain v;here the latrine 
is too? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes. 

(Interpreter explains to witness.) 

Q (continuing) Here is Barracks 710, and this is Lawton Road, 
and this is the front door to the orderly room, and this is 
the side door to tlie orderly room (indicating)? 

A Yes. 

Q Nov7, where, in Barracks 709? v;ere you sleeping? 

A Third bunk. 

Q The third bunk ."rom the north corner? 

A Yes, to my right. 

Q That would be about the northeast corner, tiiird bunk from the 

northeast corner of 709. And from which window, you said 

the second v^indov;, will you point out to the Court now from 
which window Olivotto jumped? 

A This v;ould be the first window. This would be the second 
window (indicating). 

Q Second window. And again in the northeast corner of 709. 
Now, -iihen you saw him last, after he had jumped, Vi/here vjas 
he with respect to the v;indow from which he jumped? 

A About a yard and a half distant from the back. 

Q And v;ith respect to the windov/ from which he jumped, where 
v;as he? 

660 



k About tvyO yards. 

Q Pwo yards in which direction from the window? 

A Tiiis direction here (indicating). 

Q rov/ards the tent? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q .ifhy didn:^t you watch Olivotto any longer than the raoment 
which you mentioned to the Court? 

A Because they was throwing stones. 

Q, All right. Come and have a seat. 

President: 1/i/ho v^as throvi/inc stonea? 

Q Yes; who was throwing stones? 

A The negroes. 

Q, Were those negro soldiers? 

A I can't tell you that, I uon't know. 

Q, All right, now, was Olivotto, when he jumped, fully dressed 
or partially dressed? 

A He had his undershirt and his shorts and his shirt on. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution has no further questions. 

Defense: Defense has no questions, if the Court please. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right. 

President: Any questions by the Court? V/itness is excused. 

Witness excused. 

Defense: Colonel, do you have the measurements of that 
distance from that window to the ground? 
distance 

Trial Judge Advocate: V/e will have it. We are going to call 
the Post Engineer up to testify on that. 

Antonio Urbano, Sergeant Major, 28th Italian Q,uartermaster*s 
Service Company, a v^/itness for the Prosecution, was sworn and 
testified as follows; through an interpreter: 

DIRECT EXA1!INATI0N 

Interpreter: I sv/ear, he says. 

661 



Questions by Trial Judge Advocates 

Q State your name. 

A Urbano, Antonio. 

Q That is Antonio Urbano? 

A Yes (spelling). 

Q VJhat is your grade? 

A Sergeant Major, 

Q And your organization? 

A 48th Italian Quartermaster's Service Company. 

Q And your present station? 

A Mt Rainier. 

Q, Were you stationed at Fort Lawton during the month of August, 
1944? 

A Yes, 

Q Do you recall the incident on the night of August 14th, 1944, 
when some negro soldiers entered the Italian area at Port 
Lav/ton? 

A Yes. 

Q In what barracks did you stay? 

A 710 

Q Vj'hat, if anything, did you hear that night when you were at 
Barracks 710? 

A Shout s . 

Law Member: Shouts? 

Interpreter: Yes. 

Q Yes. Did you hear anything else? 

A Before they arrived at the barracks they were shouting while 
they was coming towards us. 

Q \/hat do you mean by "they" or "us"? Well, first, let us 
take, what do you mean by "they"? 

A The negroes v^ere shouting. 

Q Did you that evening have occasion to look out of a window 
in Barrack 710? 

662 



A Yes. 

Q, Vtoy were you looking out the window? - , ' 

A TMhen they attacked us with stones I placed my, 1 placed 

some bunks against the door so that they couldn't get in. 
This is In Barracks 710^ Stones was arriving in all direc- 
tions, from the back, from the left, from all directions, 
Windov/o were being broken. And they tried to break down the 
door with an axe, I happened to be in the barracks and I give 
an order that no one v^as to go out. 

Defenrje. I don't think this is at all responsive to his 
question, if the Court please. 

Trial Judge Advocate; V/ell, I will cut it up from this 
point on novir if you prefer. 

Q After the order was given for no one to go out, did you 

thereafter have occasion to look and see what was going on 
outside? 

A Yes. I looked out the window to see what was happening on the 
outside, 

Q Did you know Guglielmo Olivotto during his lifetime? 
A He worked with me for five months, 

Q Did you or not have occasion to become familiar with his 
appearance? 

A Yeso 

Q Did you or not have occasion to become familiar with his 
voice? 

A Yes. 

Q Novif come vrlth me, please, and let us find out Just where 

you were in Barracks 710. Now, let me explain this map to 
you. It is Prosecution Exhibit 2. Eere runs Lawton Road 
(indicating), and here was Barracks 708, and Barracks 709, 
and here was the orderly room, and here is a tent, and here 
is another tent (indicating), and here is a latrine, and 
here is Barracks 710. 

A I was here (indicating), 

Q You were where you are pointing now* All right. We will 

make a double X there and put your initials by the side of it. 
That is AU, isn't it? 

A- Yes. 

President: That is the v/indow. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is the v/indov/, yes, sir, where he 
pointed, 

663 



Q All rlglit, now. As you v/erc looking out of that window, 
did you or not soo anyone jurip from another barracks? 

A Yes. 

Q From what other barracks did you see someone jump? 

A 709. 

Q And from approximately where did this person jump that you 
saw? 

A Second window. 

Q Second window, and which second window in 709? Will you 
point to it? 

A This one here (indicating). 

Q All right, now. Major, that is already marked three X's and 
a VB. • . 

A Defense: That is what ho points to. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes. 

Q Did the person that juinpod make any outcry at the time? 

A He was shouting, calling on his Mother to help him. He said, 

"Mother, please, Mother, help me, they are going to kill 

me, help, help. 

Q Now, did you or not see this person after he landed on the 
ground? 

A I saw him then just for an Instant, because he was attempting 
to get away. 

Q ViHio was he attempting to get away from? 

Defense; Now, if the Court please, I think the witness 
ought to testify to the facts and not give his conclusions. That 
is for the CoTxrt to determine. 

Law Member: He already asked him v^rho he was trying to get 
away from. Objection overruled. 

A Prom the negroes. 

Q Vi/hat if anything did you see the negroes trying to do? 

A To grab him. Sieze him. 

Q About how many negroes did you see attempt to sieze him? 

A Pour or five men. 

Q Did you recognize the voice that you heard calling out, that 

664 



you have described to the Court, calling on his Mother to 
help, did you recocnlze that voice? 

A Certainly. 

Q "/hose voice v/as it? 

A Olivotto's, 

Q State whether or not you could testify or tell from the 
size and the build of the man that jumped who it was? 

Defense: Objected to as leading, if the Court, |)lease. 

Law Member: Let me hear that question, please, 

(Last question read back. ) . 

Law Member: Objection overruled. That calls for a yes or 
no answer, 

Q, Answer the question yes or no, 

A Yes, 

Q I'Vho was it? 

A Olivotto, 

Q ITow, after you saw this incident, what if anything did you do? 

A I remained there at the window until, at that time, when I 

could see him disappear behind the tent. Afterwards, I didn't 
know what happened to hlra, 

Q Now, you pointed to behind a tent; that was the tent closest 
to Barracks 709, How did ho, — strike that. Tell the Court 
just what you saw with respect to how he got from where he 
jumped to, at Barracks 709, to behind the tent? 

A It was right in this point here (indicating). If I am not 
mistaken there is a tree right near the tent, I saw him up 
until he was about here (indicating), V/hen he was between 
the tree and the tent I couldn't see his actions any more. 

Defense: V!hj don't you have him mark where the tree was on 
there? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I will be glad to do so. 

f?, Will you mark where the tree was? 

A There should be a tree there (indicating); certainly, if 
they have not already chopped it do'^vn, I don't know. 

Q All right, we v/ill marl: that v/itli a circle and put "tree" on 
it (marking on map). All right, now, from the point where 

665 



he jumped to on the ground when he proceeded in the direction 
of this tent, was he alone or was someone with him? 

A He v/as alone, see, he was trying to run away. 

Q Prom whom was he trying to run away? 

A From the negroes. He was trying to i»un away from the negroes. 

C^ And what. If anything, were the negroes doing? 

A They were trying to grab him, 

Q I see. Did you lose sight of him, — well, strike that. Did 
you see Olivotto any more after he got behind the tent? 

A No. 

Defense: If the Court please, he says he lost sight of him 
after he got behind the tent. 

Law Member: That Is correct. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, he had testified he got behind 
the tent. 

Law Member: After ho got by the tree he lost sight of him, 
he couldn't see him any more he said. 

Q Did you at any time leave Barracks 710? 

A Never. I never went out of the barracks. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right, you may have the witness, 
¥/ell, just another question, 

Q V/hile you were looking out of the ?/indo?/ from Barracks 710, 
did you at any time see an Army vehicle kno7/n as a jeep? 

A After about five minutes after this affair happened, I saw 
a^jeep and I sav/ a man in a jeep vi'lth an K.P, brassard on 
his arm. He was going around the area. Sergeant Gre enough 
at that time was standing next to me. And he v/as s"aying 
at that tlme,-- 

Q (interposing) Well, now, let us not have what he v/as saying 
to him. That would not be admissible. Let us have the 
answer prior to that please, I think we bettor strike 
everything from that point on v/here he mentioned this 
Sergeant. 

(Last answer read back.) 

Q All right. Everything can be stricken from where mention was 

made that the Sergeant v/as going to say. Now, going around the 
area, that is sufficient there. Now, do you Icnow where that 
jeep came from? 

666 



A ITo. 

Q, Where was the Jeep when you first saw it? 

A It v/as in betv/een the latrine and the Orderly Room. 

Q In between the latrine and the Orderly Room; when you first 
sav/ it ? 

A Yes. 

Trial Judge Advocate; Prosecution has no further questions, 
if it please the Court. 

CROSS EXAMI'JATIOl'^ 

Questions by Defense" 

Q iilfhat was there about this particular jeep that you saw the 
M.P.'s running around in that you were able to identify it 
as being the sam.e jeep that was between the latrine and the 
orderly room? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I think you misunderstood his testi- 
mony. Major. 

Defense- Yes, I guess maybe I did. 

Law Member? He said he saw a jeep, 

Defense (interposing)? Oh, yes. Strike my last question. 

Q, The jeep that you referred to with the K.P. in it that is the 

one that you first saw between the latrine and the orderly 
room? 

A Yes, that is the jeep. 

Q Now, about how long was it from the time that you first heard 
a noise in the Italian area and rocks against the barracks 
until you saw this man jump out of 709? 

A About, after fifteen minvites. 

Defense? I have no further questions. 

Prosecution" I have no, 

(V/itness interposes asking a question of the interpreter.) 

Interpreter: He says, from the tim.e they started shouting 
up until the time that he jumped from the window? 

Defense • Yes . 

Interpreter? OK. 

Q Would there be any difference from the tire the rocks first 

667 



started striking the barracks until he jumped from the 
window? 

Law Member^ Vfnat is that again; didn't he answer the 
question? 

Defense- I asked if there would he any difference in time 
from the time the rocks struck the barracks until he saw the 
man jum.p. 

Law Member; V/ell, v;ill you ask him another question. 

Q. How long was it, Urbano, from the time you first saw or 

. heard rocks strike the barracks until you saw the man jump 
out of the window? 

A About ten minutes. 

Defense: That is all. 

EXAl^aNATION BY THS COURT 

Questions by Law Member • 

Q, How long after he saw the man jump out of the window did he 
see the jeep between the tent and the orderly room? 

A i''our or five minutes after. 

Defense: V\/ould you read that question to me, please, Mr. 
Stoddard? 

(Last question read back.) 

Defense: And the answer ijvas what? 

(Last question and ansvi/er read back.) 

Q How far was the window that you were lookin£, out of in 

Barracks 710 from^ the window in 709 from, vmich you saw this 
man jump? 

A It is about twenty yards. 

Law Member: That is all. 

President-' Any further questions by the Court? 

Lt . C ol . St e chor : Ye s . 
Questions by Lt . Col. Stecher: 
Q Did you bar r a cade both doors? 
A Both doors. 

Q Vifhich door was struck with an axe? 

668 



Interpreter: I didn't hoar that. 

Q, Which door was struck with an axe? 

A The first one. The one tov/ards the mess hall. The part 
that is level with the ground. 

Q The south or the north end? 

President: Have him point it out on the map, pointing out 
the south end of the barracks now, 

A Yes. (indicating) South end. 

Lt. Col. Stecher: That is all. 

Questions by President: 

Q Urbano, were the lights on in Barracks 709? 

A I don't believe so. 

Q, Were the lights on in Barracks 710? 

A No. 

Q Was there a light over, was there a light burning outside 

the latrine? 

A One on, at the latrine and one at the orderly room. 

Q, Outside? ' •. ■ 

A Outside. 

Q How was the man that you saw jump out of the window dressed? 

A Khaki. 

President: That is all. 

Questions by Lt. Col. Steelier: 

Q, Hov; much time elapsed after you say; the man jump from the 
window before this door was being struck by an axe? 

A My barracks? 

Q, After the man lumped from the window, how much time elapsed 

before the door in your barracks was struck by an axe? 

A It was before Olivotto jumped. 

Q How much before? 

A First, 708 was attacked, 0, 708. 

669 



Q Well, let mc ask that question once more. 

Interpreter" He just gave a v/hole ansv/or, if you want it. 

Law Moraber- V'/ell, he has been asked more than one question. 
Let's get it straight now, we can break it up and get it straight- 
ened out. 

Defense Interpreter;, That wasn't the answer. 

Defense; The interpreter said that -was not the answer. 

Q Well, I still don't know whether, if the door was struck 
before the man jumped and how much time elapsed. 

A He just stated the door was struck before he saw Olivotto 
jump . 

Q, All right. Howr much time elapsed then before the man 

jximped? 

A It must have been about ten minutes. It must have been 

about ton minutes. I did not have a watch and I couldn't 
be looking at a v/atch at that time anyway. 

Questions by Law Ivlember: 

Q, Did this man that he saw jump from this window have long 

summer Khaki pants on? 

A Yes. He was dressed in Khaki. ?Ie had a shirt and pants, 
Khaki . 

Q Long pants'? 

A Long pants. 

President: Any further questions? 

Trial Judge Advocate. I have a question or two, yes. 

R3DIRSCT EXA!'"IWATIOF 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate; 

Q In tellinv, this Court that it was Olivotto that jumped fromi 
that barracks ?rindow^ what do you base your stater.ent on 
that it was Olivotto? 

A By his voice. I know, I can't be mistaken about his voice. 

Trial Judge Advocate' That is all. 

Defense; I have no questions. 

President: I have one more question. 

670 



Examination by the Court-' 

Questions by the President" 

Q, UrbanOj did you remark to anyone in your barracks that it 
Y/as Olivotto shouted? 

Law Member ; Just a minute. That question is Improper. 

President: All right. I will withdrav; the question. 
No further questions'! 

Trial Judge Advocate: Vile have no further questions, if it 
please the court. 

President : The witness will be excused. 

Witness excused. 

Trial Judge Advocate^ Call Gennaro. 

Private Gennaro lodico, 28th Italian (quartermaster's Service 
Company, a v/itness for the Prosecution, v;as sworn and testified 
as follows; through an interpreter: 

Interpreter: He says, *'I swear." 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right, have a chair. 

DIRECT EXAMIMTIOIT 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q, Give us your full name, please? 

A lodlce, Gennaro. 

Q, No?;, your given name is what? 

A lodicc (interpreter spells). 

Q And your first nam.G is Gennaro? ' : 

A Yes (interpreter spells). 

Q l.Vhat is your grade? 

A Private. 

Q And your organization? 

A 28th Italian Quartermaster's Service Company. 

Q And your present station? 

A Mt Rainier. 

Q Do you understand some English? 

671 



A Fo. 

Q Were you ever stationed at Fort Lawton, Washington? 

A Yes. 

Q, Vifere you stationed at i'ort Lawton, Washington in the month 

of August, 1944? 

A Yes. 

Q, Do you recall the incident on the evening of August the 14th 
1944 v/hen some negro soldiers entered the Italian area at 
Fort Lawton? 

A Yos^ sir. 

Q, Whore were you when that occurred? 

A I was entering the area. 

Q Vi/hero had you hcen? 

A Thirty-seven eighty-first Truclcing Company. 

Q And Y;hen you entered the area, vrhat, if anything, did you see? 

A The Barracks 710 on the slop^;, that cokos dovm from the PX, 
I sav/ many negroes there. 

Q Did you or not proceed into the area? 

A I v/as walking betv/oen barracks, by the barraoKS whore Olivotto 
was sleeping and between the tent, because I had to .i^o to the 
latrine. 

Q D15 you go to the latrine? 

A Ho, because at that point I saw Olivotto, they were trying 

to throw him under the barracks anc' I ran, 

1^ (interposing) Well, now, let us not go too fast. 

Law Fembor? They were trying to throw him under the barracks. 
Is that the answer? 

Trial Judge Advocate; Yes. Otherwise, now, if he goes 
farther it will not be responsive. 

Q, No?/, how long .did you knov? Guglielmo Olivotto during his life- 

time? 

A From the time we came to I-ort Lawton, from, the tim.e we 
started working together. 

Q, Now, as you approached Barracks 709 as you mentioned, approx- 
imately where v/as Olivotto? 

672 



A IToar his 'barracks. ; * 

Ql Ho Y/as what? 

A Near his barracks. 

Q, Did you know wher: Olivotto slept? 

A At 710. That is v;hero I think ho slept. I an not sure 
that ho slept thuro. 

Q, ITow, come vith mo and I will repeat this and you explain it 

to him. This is Prosecution Exhibit 2 and this is Lawton 
Road running up here, and this is barracks 709, and this is 
Barracks 708, and this is Barracks 710. O-his is the 
orderly room. Here is a tent, and here is another tent, 
and here is the latrine, and I think that gives you the 
information. Now will you explain that to him? 

(Interpreter explains to the witness.) 

Q, Now, point out to the Court, please, approximately whoro you 
saw Olivotto when you came to the latrine as you testified. 

A I can't rem.embcr this. 

ft Well, ho is confused as to the plat. Let us go over it 
again. Now, this is Barracks 708, and this is Barracks 
709, and here is the orderly room, and here is a tont, and 
here is another tont, and hero is Barracks 710, and here 
is the latrine. And hero in the front door to the latrine. 

A That is whoro I saw him around that point there, around 
709 (indicating). 

Q Now mark that with an X, and put his initials GI with it 
(witness marks on map). All right. You may have a seat 
nov;. Nov;, v.'hen you sav/ Olivotto, v;as he close to the 
barracks, to Barracks 709, or v/as he some distance a\7ay 
from Barracks 709? 

A About a stop away from the barracks. 

Q Was there anyone near him? 

A Negroes. 

Q How many? 

A Four or five. 

Q State whether or not the nogroos attempted to do anything? 

A They wore trying to grab him. 

Q Did thoy or not grab him? 

A I didn't see, because I went to call the Captain. 

673 



q, Now, whoro did you run to vihon you sav/ that, or Y/h'.^ro did you 

go when you say/ that^ 

A I wont to call the Captain in the barracks beside the moss 
hall, the barracks vdior^ the Captain sloops. 

Q, Did you soo Olivotto any moro after that? 

A No. 

q, What v/as Olivotto doing when the negroes ^^ore trying to 

grata hira? 

A He vms, ho ¥/as trying to make an escape so that ho would 

not bo grabbed. 

Q, V/hon you went to call the Captain, vihorc did you go? 

A I went to call the Captain so he could call the ! .P.'s 
and we went to the orderly rooir,. 

Q, V/hile you wore in the orderly room, did you or not sustain 
any injuries r 

A F o . 

Q, V/ere you struck any while you were in the orderly room? 

A When they crashed dov/n the door, yes. 

Q, V/hat were you struck with? , . 

A 'ifith a knife. 

Q, Where were you struck; 

A Hero (indicating). 

i^ Indicating the knuckle of his right hand, wasn't it? 

A That' s right. 

Q, Do you know Sergeant Perata.^ 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Did you see whether or not ho sustained any wound? 

All right, now, there was a lot said there in response to 
that question. Ho?;, read the question to hir again and 
tell him to jrst answer the question. 

(Last question read back). 

Trial Judge Advocate: How, I don't see how you can 
possibly remember all he has said. Vjg v/ill have to take it. 
piecemeal and you stop him_ v/hen he gets so much. 

The Interpreter^ Yes, sir. 

674 



Q novj, toll us what you sav/? 

A I sav; that he had c. dagger '<;ound, hut I don't Imo':' whore. 

Q How, did you see the man v;ho cut you? 

A I saw him, but I didn't recognize him. 

Q You moan you couldn't identify hirn? 

A No. 

Q, Fo" v/as that or not the same man that cut you that also ciit 
Sergeant Porats? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Hov/ long did you stay in the orderly room? 

A Until they crashed the door down. 

Q Until they crashed the door down. How was it crashed down? 

A With an axe . 

Q, And then what, Ix anything, did you do at the time? 

A As soon as they crashed the door they remained in the doorway 
undecided whether thoy should corno in or stay out. 

Lav; Kombcr" That is not responsive. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Strike the last question ard answer. 

Q After the door was crashed down, what did you sec next? 

A Then thoy started throv/ing in rocks and words. 

Q Did you stay in the orderly roor.i until the entire affair was 
over with? 

A Vo. As soon as they entered the door they gave me a blow 
in my wrists, in my ribs. 

Q And thoy what happened? 

A After I fell to the floor. 

1^ And what happened next? 

A Sergeant Porata was trying to calm them. 

Q All right. Vi/'as he able to ca Im- thorn? 

A Mo. 

Q And then v/hat did you do, if anything? 

A '.-rfhen I fell to tlic ground one of them was coming at me with 

675 



a knife. That is, <.vith a dagger, not with a knife. 

Q , All right, and thon vjhat happened? 

A When he vms trying to strike me Sergeant Porsta v/as trying 
to calm hira, and instead of striking me he struck at 
Sergeant Perata. 

Q, All right. Will you tell us v/hat you saw after that? 

A nothing. 'Vhen I fell to the ground vmter was flowing from 
ray mouth and I went like this (making a motion) thinking 
that was blood, but instead it v/as v/ater. 

Q Ask him v;hothor or not he passed out about at that point. 

A "o. Fo, then I found mysulf in the hospital. 

Q 'Veil, did he remember after he reached up here ard thought 
it was blood and so forth, does he remember after that~ 

A No. . ■ ■ " ■ 

Trial Judge Advocate" Prosecution has no further questions. 

Defense^ Defense has no questions. ' '■ 

President' Any questions by the Court? There appear to 
bo none, "jfitness is excused. 

Witness excused. 

Trial Judge Advocate: If the Court please, If you will par- 
don me for suggesting it, but I think it would facilitate matters 
a little bit, if we took our recess now Instead of later and I 
believe I could shorten things. 

President: Court will rocess for fifteen minutes. 

(Court is recessed for fifteen minutes and proceedings re- 
sumed as followsO 

President: Prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecutlo:'::. is ready, sir. 

President: Defense ruady? 

Defense: Defense is ready, sir. 

President: Court v/ill come to order. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record show that each of the 
accused are present, all members of the Court ar^ present, and all 
personnel representing the accused arc present as v;oll as all 
m-embers representing thu Prosecution are present. 

Pr-j.vato i^.osario Eldoti, 28th Italian tciuartermasters Service 

676 



w 



Company, a v.dtness for the Prosecution, v/as sworn and testified 
as follows; through an Interpreter: 

Interpreter: He says, "I swear." - 

Trial Judge Advocc.te : Have a seat, 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q State your name. 

A Sidotl, Rosario. 

Q All right. How that is his last name first. Vvhat is 
his last nane? 

A Sidoti (interpreter spoils). 

Q And his last name, or, I mean his first name? 

A Rosario (Interpreter spells). 

Q IVhat is your grade? 

A Private, 28th Italian Quartermasters Service Company. 

Q And your present station? 

A Mt Rainier. ' ' ■' ■' 

(^ Do you speak English 

A No. 

Q V/ere you ever stationed at Port Lawton, i-Vashington? 

A Yes. ; 

Q Do you remember the incident on the evening of August 14, 
1944, v/hen some negro soldiers entered the Italian area? 

A Yes. ,, 

Q In what barracks did you str.y? 

A 710 

Q fJhere were you at the time of this Incident? 

A Inside of the barracks. 

Q TVhat, if anything, attracted you to the fact that something 
unusual was occurring? 

A I heard shouts. 

Q V/hat, if anything, did you do after hearing the shouts? 

677 



A I got up and went outside* 

Q, Did you see or hear anything after you got up and went out- 
side? 

A I saw that the negroes were coming down, throwing stones 
against the barracks. 

Q, Do you know an Italian soldier by the name of Perata? 

A Yes. 

Q, Did you see him out there anywhere near where you were? 

A Yes. 

Q, What, if anything, was he doing? 

A When I saw him he was hurt, 

Q, Was he standing still or running or walking, or what? 

A I savj him at the door of the latrine, 

Q, Did you or not see any negro soldiers in the area? 

A Yes, 

Q, Did you make contact with any of. them? 

A No . 

Q, Now, while you were out there in the area, did you have 
occasion to equip yourself with anything to arm yourself 
v/ith anything? 

A A piece of wood. 

Q, Did you have occasion to use the piece of wood? 

A Yes. 

Q, Tell the Court how that occurred, 

A I saw one of them was coming to knife, — I savr one of them 
trying to knife Perata in front of the tree. That is the 
time that I struck one of them with the piece of wood and 

he fell to the ground, 

Q, All right. Now, did you, while you were in the vicinity of 
the latrine, see anyone Jump from a barracks window? 

A Yes. • ■ 

Q, Now, come over to this plat with me, please. This is 

Prosecution Exhibit No 2 that he will explain to you. This 
is the Lawton Road and this is Barracks 708, and this is 
Barracks 709. This is the orderly room, and this is a tent, 

678 



and this Is a tent, and this Is a latrine, and this Is 
Barracks 710, Please explain that to him, 

(Interpreter explains to the v/ltness.) 

A I was right here (indicating), 

Q You were right there. All right, we will mark that X with, 

A (interposing) First, I was here, and then I went in here 
(indicating), 

Q First you were in front of the latrine you pointed to and 
then you went to the point I am going to mark with his 
initials. They are RS, aren't they? That is marked XRS, 
Now, v/ere you standing at the point that you have just 
indicated to the Coxirt v/hich has been marked XRS on 
Prosecution Exhibit 2 v/hen you saw this man jump from the 
windov/? 

A Yes, 

Q Do you know from which v/indov/ ho jiAmped? 

A Prom the second, 

Q Second window in what barracks? 

A This one here (indicating), 

Q 709, Did you see him jump to the ground? 

A Yes. 

Q, I wish you would describe to the Court slowly nov;, and in 
detail, just v/hat you saw after this man jumped from that 
second windov; and you interpret as he goes along, 

A I saw him jxanp from the v;indov/ and as he was remaining like 
this (indicating), I sav; about five negroes v/ho grabbed him. 

Q, Vi/hen he said "remained like this," he said he stooped over? 

A Yes, sir. Two of them remained there and the other three 
took him away, 

Q In what direction did they take this man? 

A Like this (indicating). 

Q Now, you pointed by the tents, between the tv;o tents, Nov/, 
go a little slow, 

A I was here (indicating), and they passed like this (indi- 
cating) , 

Q All right, nov/. He pointed from the northeast corner of, 

the northwest corner of Barracks 709, along the tent, marked ' 
2, and it is the north side of the tent marked "Tent 2," Nov/, 

679 



in what direction? 

A I couldn't see him any more becau3e the tent v/as in front 
here, 

Q All right. You couldn't see him any more because the 
tent v/as in front. And he pointed to Tentjl, Nov/, is 
there a tree anyv/here over there? 

A Three/ One is about here (indicating) and one is here 

(indicating), and there is another one here (indicating). 

Trial Judge Advocate: Counsel, could you see that? He 
pointed to a tree being exactly at the spot here where a tree la 
marked. 

Defense; Yes, But he pointed to tv/o others. 

Trial Judge Advocate; Yes, But will you agree that he 
pointed to a tree v/here this one is marked tree? Have him 
point to that againi 

A Yes. One tree here (indicating); another here, and one 
over here (indicating), 

Q All right. We v/ill mark another one over here with a 
tree in a circle, a figure 2, 

A Another one here (indicating), 

Q We v/ill mark this other one also. 

Lav; Member: Which one of them is between the latrine and 
the tent? 

Q Yes, Between the latrine and the tent there is one near 
the tent marked 2, One at the southeast corner of the 
latrine. Another one between the latrine and Tent marked 
1, And another at the southv/est corner of the Tent marked 
1, 

A ' There is another one here at this angle here (indicating). 

Q All right. That has been indicated. The other one is to 
the west of the tent, a little bit hearer to the tent than 
to the orderly room, Novv^, did you see this person that the 
three negroes had any more after he passed this tent 2? 

A No. 

Q And hov/ many negroes, negro soldiers, had a hold of him at 
that time, at the; time you last saw him? 

Defense: If the Court please, he says he did not see anyone 
had a hold of him, he didn't say that. 

Law Member; He said that five of them grabbed him when he 
jumped out of the v/indov^, and tv;o remained there and three took 

680 



him along. 

Q All right. Now, who was with this person you saw Jump when you 
lost sight of him over here by the tent? 

A The negroes, 

Q, How many? 

A Only three. 

Q, What, if anything, were the negroes doing with him? 

A They were taking him toxvards there (indicating). 

Q, Well, in what manner were they taking him, show the Court. 

A Pulling him (indicating). 

Q, All right. State whether or not you were able to recognize 
this man you saw Jump and whom you saw the negroes taking 
away? 

A No. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right, you may have the witness. 

Defense: No questions. 

President: No questions; no cross-examination? 

Defense: No cross-examination, if the Court please. 

President: Any questions by the Court? Well, I have one, 

EXAIONATION BY THE COURT 

Q,uestions by the President: 

Q, Did you hear* this man saying anything when he jumped out of 
the window? 

A I heard him shout, they were all shouting, but I didn't 
know what he said. 

Q, Was the shouting generally pretty loud? 

A They were all shouting there. 

President: Any further questions? 

Maj, MacLennan: I have one. 

Questions by Ma J, MacLennan: 

Q, Could you have him repeat again where j^'ou were standing when 
you last saw this manV 

681 



Lav? Tviember: '..as thrt pie in enough? 

i..a J . Li8 cLennan : Yes . 

Law iv'le niter: He pointed between the li-trine, Euildinf 
712, and the tent 1 can't see the niomber, Colonel. 

Trial Judge Aavocate: Th<?t is Tent 1. 

Law iwenibdr: Between the latrine, Iuildin§ 712, and Tent 
1, in ansYifer to that question by the Court. 

i-rssident: At the south corner of each. 
'i^uestions by Lt. Col. otacher: 
Q, Hovv is your hearin,- , is it good? 
A Yes. 

iTSoident: Any further questions? 

Trial Judge Advocate: There vas one question I forrot to 
ask, if it J, lease the Court, if I inay ask it now. 

x-resident: Go ahead. 

' RiLIRJCT ^x'i..ir'Tior 
(Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 
Q, Did you observe how this man was dressed? 
A All I saw was hio white shorts. That is all. 
Ci Did you notice wLether he was wearing anything on his her?d? 
A IIo. 

(^ Did you notice whether he was wearing shoes? 
A i'o . 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all. 

Law keiiiber : The question was worded, did he notice whether he 
had them on. 

Trial Juoge Advocate: That is right. 

tresident: Any furtner questions? The v;itness will be 
excused. 

Witness excused. 

oergeant i>/iario wlarchelli, 28th It'^'lion quartermasters oervice 

682 





». 


Company, c v.-itness for the t'rosecution, was svforn and testified 


as 


follows-: throutih an interpreter: 




Interpreter: Ee ssys, "I sv^eer." 




DIRECT KL\Um'^.T10i: 


Q.ue 


stions by Trial t)ud£e Advocate: 


Q 


otete your name? 


A 


iviarcLelxi , Lario. 


Q, 


All ri£ht. karchelli is his last nanxe, and Lerio is his first 




name? 


A 


Yes. (Interpreter Gpei.ls.} 


Q ■ 


And your grade, oerj ennt? J 


A 


Yes, oer£eant. 


^. 


And your ortrnizction? 


A 


26th Italian Cuar termasters Service Coiripany. 


Q, 


And your present station? ' 


A 


Mt. Rainier. 


k 


-*ire you able to speak in jln^lirih? 


A 


No, I do not speak English. 


^ 


V/ere you ever stationed at Fort Lav/ton, ;"?ehin,,ton? 


A 


. Yes, sir. 


Q 


V/ere you stationed there during the month of August, 1^44? 


A 


Yes, sir. 


Q 


Do you recall the incident on the evening of August 14, 1944 




when some negro soldiers entered the Italian area at Fort 




Lawton? 


A 


Yes, sir. , ' • 


^ 


In what barracks did you stay? 


A 


711. 


Q 


In Barracks 711. What ?;as it that first attracted your 




attention to somethins' unueual happening- that evening? 


A 


I was awakened by the shouts and the noise that vws coming 




from the direction of Barracks 708. 




683 



F 



Q After /ou 'jers pv/akened by the noise, what, if anything, 
did you do? 

A I put on my pants and my shoes, and I went towards the 

direction of Earr-cks 7L6 to see what '.as happening, 

Q, Alter you went in that direction, what, if anythinr, did 
you do? 

A I went towards the door where I scon three or four nepro 

soldiers . 

Q Vifhat door? 

A The door of Barracks 7C8. 

q All rirnt. 

A (continuing) and I noticed a lot more coming down from 

another direction. 

Q All right. Now, wait a second, I think he has answered as 
for as I have asked him. After he saw that, whet, if any- 
thing, did you do? 

A I went towards the ordsrly room. 

Q Towards the orderly room. Did you or not go inside the order- 
ly room? 

A Yes, 1 want inside. 

Q, What happened after you got into the orderly room? 

A Well, I went into the orderly room; I found out that they had 
already telephoned. 

Q All right. ifter that, did you or not sec any negro soldiers? 

A After a little wr.ilo tne negroes arrived in front of the door 
of the orderly room and around it. 

Q, Did you notice wnether or not they c-rried any weapons or 
anything in the. ir hands? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Whet were they carrying? 

A I saw some of them with knives. I saw others with clubs, 
and some with tr'-nching tools, shovels. 

All riilt, let Uo ot^p up here to t; is map. This is Prosecu- 
tion j,xhibit o, which is a plat of the orderly room, and this 
is the side door to the orderly room. Door E. Door A is the 
front door to the orderly room. Will you explain that 
to him? 

684 



^ 



(Interpreter explains to the v/itncss.) 

Q All right. How, step back a little bit and let him use 
the pointer. Through which door did jrou enter? 

A (indicating) . 

Q r>oor A? 

A Yes, Door A. 

Q And in what roon did you then go? 

A (indicating). 

Q You v;ent through Room R and then through Doorway D, he pointed, 
Major, into Room X? 

Defense: That's right. 

Q Now, state v/hether or not Door D remained open or whether it 
was closed after you entered tlirough it? 

A At that moment it was open. It was closed later when the 
negroes entered Door A» 

Law Member: Was the answer to the question, that Door D was 
closed? 

Trial Jtidge Advocate: That's right. 

Q After Door D was closed, was it ever opened again? 

A By us, no. It was crashed into by the negroes. 

Q And in v^hat manner was it crashed into? 

A With an axe and other things that they might have been using. 
I saw the axe, because I saw the thing coming through the 
door when the wood slit. 

Q All right, now, did you after that time have occasion to leave 
Room X? 

A At the time v/e v/cre attempting to hold the door shut, but 
bricks and stones were being thrown tlirough these v/lndows. 

Q Pointing to the windov/s in Room X, 

A And we left the doorway hero, we walked into this room 
(indicating). 

Q And this room is what, Room Y? 

A Yes. 

Q After you got into Room Y, what if anything did you do? 

685 



A I got a blow towards the back, and I fell unconscious, 
fell unconscious right away, right after the blow, 

Q Did you thereafter regain consciousness while you were still 
in Room Y? 

A Yes, a few minutes later. 

Q And then what did you do after you regained consciousness? ■ 

A After I regained consciousness I was still a little dazed. 
I was hearing the cries of lament all around, and I walked 
into this room, to this point (indicating). 

Q, You walked into Room X, to what point? 

A Near the Door. 

Q Near Door D, 

A No, near Door B. 

Q Near door B. All right, then. What did you do after you 
walked over near Door B? 

A At this point ) indicating) I saw Sergeant Perata on the 
floor and bleeding. I also saw Private Furlonelli, who 
was also bleeding on the floor, and here I saw Sergeant 
Perata, who was also bleeding (indicating). In front of 
them there was Corporal Haskell, who was speaking English to 
the negroes. All I could understand from the conversation 
Was that he told the negroes, "Look what you have done to 
the Sergeant," and that, "He is an American Sergeant." 

Q Where did you go from there? 

A I then observed that there were a group of negroes in this 
doorway, and one of the negroes was attempting to have the 
rest leave, he was speaking English. I couldn't understand 
what he was saying but I could understand that he was 
trying to make them go away. 

Q, What, if anything, did you do after that? Did you go 
anywhere or do anything or did you stay there? 

A I remained in this area or near the door and with me was 
a soldier by the name of Fugazza, who was also full of 
blood and as we neared this point (indicating) a negro 
came after us with a dagger. 

Q, After this negro came after you with a dagger, what if 
anything did you do? 

A Instinctively, at that moment, we raised our hands in an 
attempt to have him stop what he was going to do, 

Q All right. What happened after that? 

686 



A He continued advancing, however, and Fugazza and I ran 
in here (indicating). 

Q Nov/, you pointed to Room Y. You ran into Room Y, again, 
is that correct? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q You night tell him to ^et acquainted with these numbers 
and when he refers to that room to refer to it by the 
letters. 

Interpreter: Very well. 

Q Now, after you entered Room Y, what if anything did you do 
next? 

A I went towards the window and on the outside there was a 
negro v;ho was striking with a club towards the inside of 
the room. He was also trying to hit me. 

Q That is the window to Room Y? 

A The window to Room Y. 

Q All right. After that, what happened? 

A I noticed, I saw, rather, that the colored man was 

coming in the room with a knife. Therefore, I went to 
jiimp out of the v;indow which, in fact, I did. 

Q Vfhlch window did you jump out of? . 

A I jvimped out of the windov; of Room Y. 

Q Now, after you jiompcd out of the window of Room Y, where 
did you go? 

A I remained under the v;indov>r for a fov/ moments attempting 
to v/ard off the blows that v;cre being struck at me. 
As a matter of fact one of the blows I did ward off 
that was intended for my head. However, as I warded it 
off I did it so that it hit my arm. Then I broke free 
and ran towards the recreation hall. 

Q All right. Let us go to another map* \7e are going to 
look at Prosecution Exhibit 2, V/ill you explain that to 
him, that on Prosecution Exhibit 2, this little spot 
here that is marked "Chapel" is a little church, and that 
this building 731 is the recreation hall (indicating). 

. (Interpreter explains to the witness.) 

Q Do you understand that? ■■-]_, 

k Yes, sir; very well. . ' ' 

Q Now, stand back and use your pointer, and shov; the Covirt 
about v/here you ran to? 

687 



A (indicating), I Jumped out of this window and I ran In 

this direction (indicating), and I fell here (indicating). 

Q, That is a westerly direction across Lawton Road. 

Law Member: Would you read that answer? 

(Last answer read back.) 

A I got up and ran behind here, about that direction there 
(indicating), 

Q, All right. Well, he pointed to a place north of the, — 
have him point again about where he came to a stop with 
respect to the recreation hall. 

A I stopped there for a moment (indicating). 

Q Stopped there for a moment, which is to the north of the 
recreation hall. ^Vhat did you do after that? 

A I stopped there for a moment because I couldn't see what 
was aiiead. However, I heard people coming after me, so, 
although I couldn't see, I jumped down into the wood that 
was there behind the stairs, 

Q (interposing) Behind what stairs? 

A A decline. A rapid decline; a steep decline. 

Q All right. Now, after you Jumped to this deep incline, 
did you stay there for awhile, or did you leave? 

A I remained there under a dead trunk that was cut. 

Q Well, about how long did you remain there? 

A I can't tell with exactness whether it was fifteen minutes, 
a little bit less or a little bit more, I can't tell. 

Q Now, just back of this recreation hall, that would be the 
west side of it here (indicating), did you Italian soldiers 
have any sort of a court upon which you played games? 

A There is a boxing ring there. 

Q, A boxing ring. All right, now do you know whether or 

not there was a pathway anywhere close to the recreation 
hall? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Tell the Court where that was? 

A Prom here it went down through the woods (indicating). 

Q, From here, you pointed to it going down to the south side, 

688 



by the south side of the recreation hall and leading into 
the woods in a v;esterly direction. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Is that agreed to, counsel? 

Defense: That is what he indicated, yes. 

Q About how far from this path were you when you came to a 
stop close to the log? 

A I was over here a full length of the barracks and perhaps 
a little more than the full length of the barracks away 
from the road. I can't say exactly v;hether it was 50, 
60, or 70 yards. 

Q- All right. V/hilo you were there, state whether or not 
you hoard anything along the pathway? 

A All I heard was voices that were speaking in English. 
Q All right. " ' 

A Then I heard steps along, along the path. Then I heard 

some steps, footsteps that wore coming out of the woods 
on to the pathv/ay. 

Q All right. 

Defense: ".That was that last answer? • 

(Last answer road back.) 

Q All right. Now, these footsteps that you heard that were 
leading down into the woods were the footsteps of one 
person or more than one person? 

A It must have been more than one, 

Q Now, did you ever look into the direction of where the 
waterfront is at the end of the v/oods? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q Did you or not see any light down there at any time? 

A Yes. 

Q Could you tell v/hcthcr or not they were flashlights? 

A Along the pathway there, I was pretty sure that they were 
flashlights, but down in the woods, I am pretty sure there 
must have been some' machine there. 

Defense: Nov;, if the Court please, 

A (continuing) I further saw, 

Law Member: Well, now, let's got that, and I will strike 

689 



It out If it Is improper, 

Q (Continuing) I also heard noiso of a motor. 

Lav; Member: Nov, to what testimony is your objection 
aimed: 

Defense: The objection is, when he said, "there must 
have been some machine there," 

Lav; Member: Ho has also testified he hoard a motor. 

Defense: All right. But it is for the Court to dotermlno 
what is dovv'n there. 

Law Member: Will you ask him to describe the light? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, I v;as going to, 

Q V;ill you describe the lights you saw there with respect 
to whether they were all the same size or were some 
smaller or larger? 

Defense: Now, I am going to object to the type of auestlons 
counsel has been asking and keeps on asking all the v/ay through 
this examination. 

Law Member: I don't believe he is doing it; however, if 
he is yon can object. 

Defense: I am objecting. 

Law Member; But at the time you spoke bufore you didn't 
make any objection. You just said you were going to obToct, 
I believe. Do you make an objection? 

Defense: I am continually making an objection whore it 
is proper, but after counsel asks the questions then the damage 
is done. 

Law Member: Vftiat objection,- what question is the obioct- 
ion made to? 

Defense: There was a very leading question there. Will 
you find that and read that last question, Mr, Stoddard? 

(Last question ruad back) 

Trial Judge Advocate: Now, if the Court please, there 
IS nothing leading about that. 

Lav; Member: Is th>it wh\t you are objecting to. Major? 

Defense: That question, and all the way through. Just 
ask him to describe the lights and then I haven't any ob lect- 
ion to that, 

690 



as 



Law Member: 
to ask him to 



All right, 
describe the 



Reframe 
lights. 



the question. Colonel so 



Trial Judge Advocate: All right, but I don 
placed in the category that there is anything in 
as to leading and suggesting. I don't think it 
loading and suggesting. I have intentionally a 
be very fair and to give everyone of the witness 
to describe these things. I am trying to direc 
to certain things in the interest of saving time 
go on for hours and hours here. But tine after 
taken v;itncssos and asked this and this and, as 
this v^ltncss; but there was no intention of bein 
suggestive. 



' t want to be 

tentional 

is intentionally 

ttenpted to 

es an opportunity 

t their attention 

because we can't 

time I have 
I have done vifith 
g loading and 



Defense: Well, now, on that question, I didn't call the 
attention of the Court to it before but he asked if the lights, 
did not look or if they didn't 
submit if that is not leading i 



look like flashlights, and nov/ 
md sun-gostivc I don't Icnov/ what is, 



Trial Judge Advocate: I believe you wore complaining 
about the light of the Ciir coming, 

President: Y/ell, I would like to bring out something. 
The questions are asked through an interpreter and there is 
plenty of time for you to make an objection between the time 
the cues t ion is asked and the time he answers. I don't think 
your 'objection is yjoII taken. 

Law Member: Reframe the last question. Have hiiri 
describe the lights and whether they were at some particular 
place. 

Q All right. Please describe to the Court the lights you 
Have told tfie Covirt you saw? 



uOubt^f5gEl?i£?i?^ gJ§S^Sf,^5fae"ones ^, 
woods must have been lights from a machine, 
larger than the other t-ype lights. 



along, thQ pathway.werc.po 
Shining down" into 



Ducauso it 



the 

was 



Q All right. 



art of 

3 



Law Member: Now, I am ffolng to strike put t];^e part, 
the answer "must have been lights from a machine," that i 
nis conclusion. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes. I will ask him. V/ell, 
let's see how that will r^ad with that portion stricken. 

Law Member: Thu words "must have been lights from a 
machine," they are taken out. 



boon 
struc 



(Last answer read, first including the words "must have 
lights from a machine.'^ and then reread, and upon m- 
tiSn from the Law Member omitting the same words.) 



Law Member: 



That is right. 



691 



Nov/, the objectionable portion of that is the conclusion 
of this witness. Now, have him testify to what he saw and 
what the lights looked like, but he cannot tell, "must have 
been lights from something," 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right. Would yovi read that 
now omitting those words again for me. 

(Last answer read omitting words "m.ust have been lights 
from a machine , " ) 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right. Just say they were 
larger than the other type lights. 

Law Member: Did he say that? 

Interpreter: Yes. Larger than other type of lights. 

Lav/ Member: That may stand, 

Will you describe to the Court v/hat you mean by "larger 

than other type lights"; in what respect v/ere they larger, 

A There v/ere beams of lights that v/ere coming dovm into 
the v/oods, 

d All right. Did you hear anything do^m there at all? 

A I have already stated v/hat I heard. 

Q, V/cll, v/hat \vas that. Wo want to know everything you heard. 

A I said I heard footsteps going dov/n the pathway, and 

. people speaking, a few probabl^r speaking In an nngry tono. 
and I heard steps coming out of the v/oods onto the path- 
way. 

Law l.:embor: Is there a question of what the witness 
said on that? 

Trial Judge Advocate: There must be. The interpreters 
are having a counsel of war. Are you all in agreement? 

Interpreter: Yes, sir, 

Q Nov/, how long was it after you first started hiding there 
that you heard the footsteps coming along the pathv/ay? 

A Just a little "/hile after. I can't say exactly how many 
minutes passed from or betv/cen the time that I heard 
footsteps dov/n the path and the time I was hiding, 

Q And about hov/ long v/as it after you started hiding there 
that you heard footsteps coming from that direction, up 
the pathway? 

A I can't say exactly. It could have been ten minutes, 
it could have been five minutes, 

692 



Q After you remained there as you have testified fifteen 
or twenty minutes, where did you go? 

A I remained there until I heard that the business had 
ended or was over, 

Q Well, then, where did you go? 

A Then I returned to the orderly room, and I returned 
there slowly and, because I had lost much blood, 

Q And from where did you go after you had returned to the 
orderly room? 

A From the orderly room I entered through Door A, through 
Room R, and into through Door D, and into Room X, 
and there I saw Lt. LoBianco and some others whom I do not 
remember of. And they cleaned some of the blood off 
me and then they put me in an ambulance. Actually, that 
wasn't an ambulance, it was another type of machine. An 
M. P. car, 

Q, All right. Were you or not taken to the hospital? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q All right, now. You told the Court about Door D being 
chopped down while you were in the orderly room before 
you went down to the wooded area. Did you or not see the ■ 

soldiers enter did you or not see any negro soldiers 

enter through Door D after it was chopped down? 

A Yes, I saw them while entering through the other room, 

into the other room, 

Q, Did you or not see the first negro soldiers that entered 
that room? 

A Yes, I saw the first one, 

Q Will you describe him to the Court? 

A He was a little, possibly a little shorter than me, 

but stouter, 

Q All right. Did you notice anything else about him that 
you could describe? 

A He had a round, full face, and he was not completely black, 

Q Can you give me any further description of him? 

A No, I can't. 

Q, How long were you in the hospital? 

A The first time I was in there two or three days, I can't 

remember exactly. Then I had to re-enter because complica- 

u.. 693 



tions set in. 

Q, How long were you there the second time? 

A I remained there about a week or ten days. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution has no further questions, 
if it please the Court. 

CROSS-EXAMINATION 
Questions by Defense: 

Q, Have you ever been down along the beach to the west of 
Lawton Road? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q, How far is it down there, about half a mile? 

A Less than half a mile. , 

Q, About a quarter of a mile? " " 

A About a quarter of a mile. 

Q, Now, there is a highway that runs along the beach, right 
down below Lawton Road, isn't there? 

A Yes. ■ 

Q, And that highway runs in a northerly and a southerly direc- 
tion, up to a point just slightly south of the Italian 
area, doesn't it? 

A I didn't understand which road it is that you mean. There 
are several roads there, and then there is a main road 
which goes up to the prisoners of vmr compound. 

Q Well, there is a road somewhat, strike that. There is 

a road coming down from the hill, Fort Lav^fton, down to the 
beach that runs in approximately a northerly and southerly 
direction? 

President: Are you stating that as a fact, Major Beeks, 
or are you asking him that as a question. 

Defense: I was asking it as a question. 

A The road runs from the area right down to the beach, does 
it not? 

Q, Yes. And that is in approximately a northerly and southerly 
direction? 

A North and south with respect to what? 

Q, Well, with respect to north and south, or to the compass? 

694 • 



Trial Judr^.c Advocate: I am ,3oin~ to h.avo the Post Engineer 
here this afternoon, or in the riorning, 

A Worth of v/hat or south fron v;hat? 

Q h'ell, doesn't it cone from the south up the hill and then 
clov/n the hill north towards the water? 

A It is almost straight, right dovm to the v/ator. It may 
have a small curve in it, hut almost perpendicular* 

Q Yos. And it reaches the water at a point just a little 
to the west and a little to the south of the Italian 
area? , . . 

A What did you say? 

Q I said it reached a point just to the west and a little 
to the south of the Italian area? 

A It passes that side of the recreation hall that looks 
up to the barracks on top. 

Q Vi/ell, it may make sense to him, but it doesn't make sense 
to mc. Bring him over here. Looking at Prosecution 
Exhibit 2, now in about this area there is a road that 
comes from the south down the hill to the north (indicating) 
and it hits the water ac a point to the west and slightly to 
the south of the Italian area, docs it not? 

A I believe you bettor explain which is the north and south 
on the mapi 

Q The top of the map is the north and the bottom is the 
south. 

A You indicate where the road is, he will be able to toll 
you. 

Q Vifoll, there is v. lighthouse out hero, isn't there? 

A Vifhile you arc going down, th ;t v/ould be on the left. 

Q V/ell, the ligl.tliouso is to tlie Wv.st and south of the 
Italian area, isn't it? 

A I can't remember that point, or the points of the compass. 

Q Vifell, in any event there is a road running from that 

lighthouse along the beach, and then the road comes up 
along the beach at a poiht approximately tov/ards the v/ater 
from the Italian area, isn't that correct? 

A Yos. 

Q And at that point, tc the west of the Italian area, 

that road makes a complete U-turn back up the south up 
tov/ard the hill, towards Port Lawton, isn't that right? 

695 • 



Have you got another map? 

Trial Judge Advocate: You mean showing the same thing as 
that?. 

Defense; No. I mean showing the area to the west. 
What was the answer to that last question? 

A He said a street that goes down naturally comes up from 
the Italian area. The street that runs down like this 
goes straight almost (indicating). 

Q, Well, tell him to come over here. 

(Defense counsel tracing on a piece of paper.) Now, let 

us assume this is the recreation hall you are talking about, 

up here on the hill (indicating) and here is a little chapel. 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, And here at the point I have marked with an X is where the 
lighthouse is located^ 

A He said approximately in that direction. 

Q, Where I have written "water" down here indicates where the 
Sound is. 

A Yes. 

Q, And a highway runs from this lighthouse down along the beach 
to about this point (indicating) then it makes a turn and 
comes up the hill, does it not? 

A Yes, that one does, yes. 

Law Member: Now, Mr Stoddard, will you come up here and 
read to us what went on over there? We didn't hear any of that. 

(Last discussion including illustrations and drawing of 
diagram and questions and answers read back to the Court by the 
reporter) . 

Defense: Now, for illustrating purposes, will you mark 
this as Defense Exhibit next in order? 

Law Member: That is going to be exhibit I. 

Defense: I will have it traced later and filled in in ink. 

Trial Judge Advocate: You are only offering that for 
illustrative purposes. There is no pretense of it being to 
scale. 

Defense: Oh, no, no, none whatever. 

696 



k 



Law I; ember. It will be m&rked Defense Exhioit I. 

Defense V/ould the court like to look at this for a 
moment? You can see what I have in mind. I offer it in 
evidence, if the Court please, for illustrative purposes. 

Law : ember. It will be received as Defense Exliibit I 
for illustrative purposes. 

The document above referred to was then received in 
evidence and marked "Defense EXi.ibit I". 

Law i' ember. ^re you all through now, I'ajor" 

Defense. 'Jo.^ 1 am not throu^^h. I was just waiting for 
the Court to look at the map. 

Trial Judge Advocate. Is the Court r^-ady for counsel to 
proceed with the questioning? 

Defense. The Court is still looking at the diagram if 
counsel would notice. 

Law liember: Here you are, Ilajor ^handing document to 
Defense). 

Q Now, that road leading from the lighthouse up onto the 
hill is a wide graveled road, isn't it? 

A It is a street, a long , wide street, plenty wide. 

Q And there is a considerable traffic over that road, particular- 
ly in the summertime, isn't there? 

A Yes, every day I noticed that there were cars and trucks 
going dovm to pick up sand. 

Q Well, the beach was also used a lot in the summertime, too, 
wasn't it? 

A Yes. Sor.etiiiics some of them went tnere on Sundays. I al- . 
ways seen some, a maciiine or so. 

Q Well, now, what room was it in which you were struck? 

A I was, I was hit in Room 7. 

Q Were you struck a hard blow or was it a light blow? 

A It was hard enough, because I lost ray senses, and was un- 
conscious after I got iiit. 

Q V/hat part of the head were you struck on? 

A Here (indicating). 

Defense: Indicating beiiind the right oar, is that right, 

697 



Counsel: , " ., 

Trial Judge Advocate: That's right. 

Q Were you pretty dazed for a long time after that? 

A I had my senses, I was feeling very vreak but I could 
understand everything since I had enough sense to jump 
out of the windov/, 

Q You v/ere treated in the hospital for the injuries you 
had, were you? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q Is that the only hlovi you got on the head that night? 

A Yes. And a blov; here on the ana (indicating). 

Q And a blov/ on the arm, How, as you jumped out of the 

v/indow or, the windo\7 of Room Y, how many blo'.vs were you 
struck? 

A I only received one, but there were more than one directed 
towards me, but I was able to dodge them. 

Q By the way, hov/ old are you? 

A Twenty- eight, 

Q And where v/ere you captured? 

A Tunisia, 

You were captured in Tunisia. And how long had you been in 
the Italian Army before you were captured? 

A It was about five years. 

Q About five years. Nov/, after you left Room Y in the 

orderly room, as I understand it, you ran across Lav/ton 
Road into the woods? 

A Yes. Just as I told you. The outsl:irts of the woods. 

Q Was it pretty dark over there or were there lights around? 

A It was very dark. As a matter of fact, I stopped right 

at the edge there because I couldn't see what was going on 
ahead of me . 

Q Was there any moon that night? 

A No, there was no moon. 

Q, It was cloudy, too, v/asn't it? 

A No, I don't think it was cloudy. 

698 



J 



Q, Does he remember? 

A Yes. There was none. 

Q, No clouds? • ' 

A There might have been one here and there, there might have 
been one, but it was a serene night more or less. 

Q, Did you see the stars that night? 

Law Member: Vifhat night are you spealcing about? 

A I don't remember that, I believe, yes, but I don't remember. 

Q, Can you recall whether or not you could see the stars? 

A I can't remember that. 

Q, As a matter of fact, it rained that night shortly after mid- 
night, didn't it? 

A From what I can remember, no. 

Q Now, after you got over there in the vicinity of the recrea- 
tion hall, did you go down the slope, down the bank, towards 
the Sound? 

A About a yard. 

Q, About a yard down the slope? 

A Perhaps more than a yard. 

1^ Well, how much was it? 

A In distance, I went down about two yards, two and a half 

yards, but it wasn't that much distance down, straight down. 

Q Well, he went down the slope about two yards? 

A Yes. ■ ■ 

Q. And how far were you at that time from the bottom of the 
slope? 

A This I can't say, but it must have been about fifty 

yards. It is mostly all going dovjn. There is a slight 
little, a little level ground there, but then it goes down 
through the woods. 

Q, Will you come over here to Prosecution Exhibit 2 now, and 
indicate approximately where you Vi(ere at the time you hid 
behind the logs you said in reference to the building? 

A I must have been in that direction there, about that 
direction (indicating). 

699 



Q Well, let's see. What are his initials? 

A M.M. 

Q, Have you used a mark v/ith his initials already, Colonel? 

Trial Judge Advocate: No, I don't recall whether I did. 
I don't helieve I have. His initials are M.T. 

Q I T/ill put his initials out here at the bottom or I mean 
at the point he has Indicated, (Marking on map) Can you 
give us an idea of approximately hovi far you were from 
the northwest corner of the recreation hall? 

President: It is 12:00 o'clock no:v. How much more, 

A (interposing) About seven yards. 

President (continuing) : Hov/ much longer do you think 

you will take up with this v/ltness. Major? 

Defense: Some little time. I will require some little 
time yet. 

President: Then court v/111 recess and reconvene at 1:3C. 

Law Member: ¥.Tiat vras that last answer, Mr Reporter? 

(Last answer read back.) 

(Court recessed at 12:0; p.m., and reconvened at 1:30 p.m., 
as follows : ) 

President: Prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Defense ready? 

Defense: Defense is ready, sir. 

President: Court will come to order, 

(The roll of the accused was called by Assistant Trial 
Judge Advocate and all v/ere present.) 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record shov/ that each of the 
accused is present; that all the members of the court are present, 
that the personnel representing the accused and the personnel 
representing the Prosecution are present. 

(The witness resumed the stand and testified further as 
follows) . 

CR0SS-EX.'\MinATI01I 
(continued) 

Trial Judge Advocate: You are reminded that you are still 
under oath. 

Law Member: Tell him that, Interpreter. 

700 



J 



Interpreter Re said he U:Lderstands. - 

Questions by Defense. , ^ 

Q ovi . as yc.u tool: tLe ^j sition over in the area by the 
recroation liall at the tir.e you wore lyin{; dovai, in 
v/hich direction v;&s ^'our head? 

A I was lying on the ^^round, at that Doment, 1 can't reiuen.ber 
where, exactly, my head v;as, whether I v^as looking up or 
dovm, 

Q Well, was your head in the direction o.' the recro-ation hall 
or vJo.s it in tlie direction of Lawtoji Ro^d, or jnst how was 
it? 

A ("'itness goes up map board.) I W£,s goin^ down tnis way, 
arid my head v;as on tiiat side findicatiiig) . 

Defense. : ay we stipulate thrt he was lyin?, in a generally 
northerly and southerly direction Vi/ith his head north? 

Captain hranand; I tiiought he pointed northwest was his 
head. 

Defense; Well, all right. He was lyint withi his head 
approxiuately iiorthwest, and nis feet approxiraately southeast. 
You nay sit down. 

Q You were atter..pting to keep tiie colored soldiers from 
fiitding you at that tine, weren't you? 

A Yes, Sir. 

Q '"ow, were you lying on your stoi.iacii, or were you lying on 
your back? . - 

A On my stomacii. 

Q Now, wnich side of you was the lo--, on? . ;' 

A On top of me, towards the recreation hall. 

Q The log was on, you were in a hole underneath the log? 

A No, there were tivigs u.^derneatii. Ic waSii't a iiole. 

Q Well, then, the log was on your left side then, was it or 
on your right side? 

A On ray right. ' ■ •' ''_'■''_ 

Q On your right side. How big ■-:. log was it? 

A From here to there (indicating). To the pillar there. 

Q That was the length of it? 

A Yes. 

701 ^ 



Q How high was it from the ground? 

A It was lying on the ground. 

q, Yes. But the top of the log was how far from the ground? 

A (indicating) like this, - 

Q Well, indicate again, will you? 

A (indicating). 

Defense: Is that about a foot? 

Trial Judge Advocate: About six inches it looks to me like. 
Q Well, ask him to measure it again. 
A (indicating) . ■ 

President: Now, hold your hand down there. 

Law Member: That is a foot it appears to me, yes. 

(Witness holds hands in position while distance is measured.) 

Trial Judge Advocate: Nine inches. 

Q Now, do you mean that that is the thickness of the log? 

A In Italy he says it is 60 centimeters. Is that sufficient 
for the record. 

Law Member: Well, how many inches is a centimeter, how 

many centimeters was it? 

Interpreter: Sixty. 

Defense: I have forgotten what a centimeter is now. 

Defense Interpreter: I believe 2.39 centimeters make an 
inch. 

Law Member: What does that represent, the thickness of the 
log? 

Interpreter: Yes. 

President: Well, a thousand centimeters is approximately 
forty inches, no, no, now, wait a minute. A hundred centimeters 
is approximately 40 inches, I believe. 

Law Member: I think the way we are going this better be 
off the record. Well, anyway, that describes the thickness or 
the diameter of the tree, is that right? 

Defense: Well, I already asked him that. 

702 






*>'. 


Q, 


All right. Tell him to indicate with his hands the 
diameter of the log. 


A 


(indicating). 




Defense (measuring distance) About fifteen and a half inches. 




Law Member: About how many inches was that? 




Defense: 15-1/2, sir. 


Q 


Now, when you looked towards the waterfront, in which direction 
did you look, to your left or to your right? 


A 


Directly in front of me. 


Q, 


Directly in front of you. I think that is all. 




President: Any further questions? 




Trial Judge Advocate: May I just ask one or two further ques- 
tions? 




REDIRECT EXAMINATION 


Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 


Q 


With respect to the position of this log on the ground, what 
was its position; was it lying entirely on top of the ground 
or was it partly buried? 


A 


All of it was touching the ground. 


Ql 


I know all of it was touching the ground, but just ask him to 
explain to the Court what he meant when he said that the log 
was about a distance that measured nine inches from the top 
of the ground and yet had a diameter of what he explained to 
be or to have a diameter of 15-1/2 inches; Just have him ex- 
plain that, what he means. 


A 


They were slightly planted in the terrain because there was 
soft terrain at that point. 




Trial Judge Advocate: All right, no further questions. 




REGROSS EXAMINATION: 


Questions by Defense: . . ' 


Q 


One further thing I neglected to ask you. This particular 
path, this path that goes down past the recreation hall, is 
only a footpath, isn't it? 


A 


Asmall path going in among the trees. 


Q 


And you can't drive a vehicle over it? 


A 


No, it is impossible. . 




703 



Defense: That is all. 

Trial Judge Advocate: No further questions, your Honor. 

Presi'dent: Any further questions by the Court? Witness 
will be excused. 

Witness excused. 

Staff Sergeant Charles M Robinson, a witness for the 
Prosecution, was sworn and testified as follows: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

ft Will you please give us your name, your grade, your organiza- 
tion, and your station? 

A Charles M Robinson. 

Q And your grade? 

A Staff Sergeant. 

President: Is that Robins or Robinson? ' 

Trial Judge Advocate: Charles M Robinson. 

Q And you said Staff Sergeant. And your organization. Sergeant? 

A Security Detachment, Building 58. 

Defense: Will you speak: up a little louder, Sergeant, I am 
having difficulty hearing you. 

Q Will you give us that answer again? 

A Yes, sir. Securities Detachment, Building 58. 

Q And your station, Sergeant? 

A Fort Lawton, Washington. 

Q, How long have you been at Fort Lawton, Sergeant? 

A I came here in the first part of June, sir. 

Q Do you recall the incident on the night of August the l/Vth, 
when a group of negro soldiers entered the Italian area 
at Fort Lawton? 

A No, sir. Not entered the area, sir. 

Q Well, do you moan you did not enter the area, is that what 
you meant? 

A They was not in that area. 

704 



V/ell, maybe I don't understand you. 

Q, Well, I am talking about the particular incident on the night 
of August 1/Vth, not whether you saw them or not, but do you 
remember the incident where some negro soldiers entered the 
area? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, What were you doing the following morning. Sergeant? 

A I was on jeep patrol, sir. 

q And about what hours wore you on jeep patrol? 

A I went on the night of the 14th at 5:00 o'clock. 

Q That would be on the morning of August 15th, or did you go 
on at 5:00 p.m., of the 14th? 

A No, sir. I went on at 5:00 p.m., .... 

Q And you patroled until what time? 

A I was supposed to got off at 12:00 o'clock, sir, but I 
patrolled all of that night and part of the next day. 

Q While you were patroling on the morning of August 15th, did 
you come upon anything of an unusual nature? 

A No, sir. 

Q, Well, just where did you patrol? Now, I am talking about 
the morning of August 15th, not the night of August lA-th. 
Did I say Uth? 

Defense: No, you said 15th. 

Q Talking about the following morning of August 15, you were 
patroling. Who were you patroling with? 

A I was by myself, sir. 

ft Well, was there called to your attention that morning anything 
of an unusual nature? .. 

A Yes, sir. 

Q What was that? 

A That there had been found a man hanging on a wire down on the 
shore, down by the obstacle course. 

Q Did you go to the point that had been indicated? 

A Not immediately; afterwards, sir. 

Q What did you find? 

705 



A Poiind an Italian hanging from a guy wire. 

Q Whcro was that guy wlro? '" 

A It was running across the ditch down on the obstacle course 
from one tree to another, right dov;n on the shore. 

Q Did you remove his body? 

A Yes, sir. I did, later, sir. 

Q Now, will you toll the Court in as best terms as you can and 
as much detail as you can, jiist what you saw with respect to 
this Italian hanging from this guy v/lrc? 

A By that you mean, 

Q Just describe the position ho v/as in, what he v/as hanging 

from, v/hat was used, and anything else that you recall that 
you saw at that tlrao, 

A Well, sir, I didn't pay much attention to the rope. But as 
well as I remember it was a tent rope and he was hanging 
there in a khaki shirt and his shorts. 

Q All right, 

A (continuing) His neck vi/as turned just a little to one side 
and the rope was around his nock and over the guy wire. 

Q Do you recall v/hother or not he v*ras wearing shoes? 

A No, sir; he was not wearing shoes. 

Q Vifhat v/as the situation as to his feet? 

A He was bareheaded, he had no socks, and no pants on. 

Q All right. Did you observe anything with respect to the 
condition of his legs? 

A They v;ero scratched up a little, sir. 

Q Now, Sergeant, I will ask you if at a later date you had 
occasion to visit the scene v;here you sav/ this Italian 
hanging and v/hether you had occasion to point out the exact 
spot v/horc he v/as suspended from a cable, for the purpose of 
pictures being taken? 

A Yes, sir. 

<^ Do you remember v/ho all v/ere present at that time? 

A No, sir. Not everyone, I don't. 

Q Well, will you mention as many as you recall? 

A Private Lomax, 

706 



Lav; Ivlcmbcr; Hov/ do you spoil that? 

Tho V/ltnoss: (Spelling). 

A (continuing) And thoro was a t/4. They took tho pictures. 

I don't larovv just v/ho he was, 

Q Yes? 

A Thoro was a Captain and a Colonel was thoro, but I don't 
roraembor their names. 

Q Do you know Maj. McNay, the Post Engineer? 

A Yos, sir, 

Q Do you remember v/hethor or not ho was there? 

A Yes, sir; he was there, 

Q Do you know Maj. Or em? 

A No, sir; I don't believe I do. 

Q You do know Maj. McNay, but you don't know Maj. Orom, Did 
you or not at that time point out the correct spot where 
this Italian was hanging from the cable? 

A Yos, sir, 

Q Lot mo ask you this, by tho wc"-. You said ho v/as an 

Italian, V7as there anything v. ith respect to his clothes 
that you remember, as to any badges or anything clso? 

A No, sir; there wasn't. 

Q You don't recall that. All right, I v/ill ask you v/hothor 
or not you recognize this photograph which I will have marked 
as an exhibit for identification first. 

The photograph above referred to was marked Prosecution Exhibit 
28 for identification* '7" l-'rf;.' 

Q I am handing the witness, this has been marked Prosecutioi^ 

Exhibit 28 for identification. " r,/-.. ^/'^ 



see 
mo s 



^pofonset If tho Prosecution docs not mindi I v;ould like to 
those before ho shows them to this wxtnoaai. .Would you,. lot 
GO them? .--f u',;,-' • k, y^-', "^ i 1(^ 

Trial Judge Adyooatcj Certainly, I would be delighted fco, 
I v/asn't going to shov; them to tho Court, . , » ' 

Q Nov;, v/ill you take a look at that photograph, Prosecution 
Exhibit 28, for identification, and tell the Court whether 
or not it is a truo pictxiro of v;hat you pointed out on tho 
occasion in question? -. ^ ■ 

A Yes, sir; it is, -^^ ^ .; , 

. / - 707 



Trial Judge Advocate : I novi offer it in evidence. 

Law Member: It v/ill be received without objection as Prosecu- 
tion Exhibit 28. 

Defense: I want to see it again, this being the point v/here 
he found him hanging, is that right? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes. . _ 

Defense: llo objection. 

The photograph marked for identification as Prosecution 
Exhibit 28 was received in evidence. 

Trial Judge Advocate: It is now Prosecution's Exhibit 28, 
if the Court admits it. 

Lav/ Member: It is admitted as Prosecution Exhibit 28. 

Q Now, Sergeant Robinson, will you please tell the court 

who that is, first, standing on one of the rungs of that 
ladder? 

A That is me. 

Q And v/hat are you pointing to? 

A I am pointing to v/here the rope v/as tied around the cable, 
as v/ell as I remember. 

Defense: Well, Counsel, as long as it does show the witness 
in the photograph, would you show in the record his height, as 
well as his arm reach? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, I shall get in all of that. If 
not, you v/ill have the privilege of asking all the questions about 
that you v/ant to. I v/ish you would mark this photograph for 
identification. 

The photograph above referred to '/as marked Prosecution 
Exhibit 29 for identification. 

Trial Judge Advocate: You might be taking a look at that, 

Q Nov/, Sergeant, I will hand you what has been ma.rked as 

Prosecution Exhibit 29 for identification, and I will ask you 
Y/hat it shov/s, just generally? 

A It shov/s the hanc' kerchief that I tied on the cable v/here I 
had my finger before in the other picture. 

Lav/ Member: Shov/s what? 

Trial Judge Advocate : It shows the handkerchief which is 
tied around the cable where he had his finger pointing to in the 
other photograph, 

Vi/hat does the handkerchief represent? 

708 




A It represents the rope hanging from the cable, sir, 

Q !Vho is that standing underneath the cable? 

A That Is myself there, sir. 

Q What are you doing v/ith your hand? 

A I had my left hand straight over my head pointing to the 
handkerchief. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I will offer this in evidence as 
Prosecution's Exhibit 29. 

Defense: Well, I certainly object to the admission of this 
picture, if the Court please. It contains facts and material in 
the photograph of v/hich there is no evidence in this case and I am 
particularly commenting about one thing which I think v/as put in 
the picture for only one purpose. I am certainly objecting 
to it. It is highly pre jiidicial. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I don't know v/hat he is talking 
about . 

Defense: I refer to the picture of the car in the photo- 
graph, the jeep. 

Trial Judge Advocate: l¥hy, Counsel, that is ridiculous, 
I will agree immediately for the record to ignore any part of the 
picture that shov/s a jeep there. It just so happens that that 

is the v;ay they went dovm to have the pictures taken, it shoY:s 

Maj. IicHay' s jeep. It just so happens it is there. 

Lav/ Member: As I understand it the handkerchief in Prose- 
cution Exhibit 29 for identification represents the spot on that 
picture on the cable indicated by the finger on Prosecution Exhibit 
28? 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is right. 

Lav; Kember: As long as the o":joctlon \7a3 made to the jeep, 
will you cut it out before you receive it? 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right, sir. I will be glad to 
cut it out. 

Lav/ Member: All right. Nov/, I think it v/ould be better 

if yoti slice out the v/hole thing, that edge of the picture. 

Colonel, 

Defense: I am not asking that be done. 

Law Member: Is there any objection to the picture nov;. 
Major? 

Defense: I sec no objection nov/. 

Law Member: Y/hat is marked as Prosecution Exhibit 29 is 
received. 

709 



The photograph previously niarkod Prosecution Exhibit 29 
for identification v;as received in evidence. 

Trial Judge Advocate • Nov/, will you mark this for identi- 
fication. 

The document above referred to v/as marked Prosecution Exhibit 
30 for identification. 

Trial Judge Advocate: This is the next one (handing paper 
to Defense. ) 

V. 

Defense^ I'ay I see that other one again, th^ first one, 
if the Court please. 

Trial Judge Advocate ; Had the Court completed looking at 
this picture? 



:,( 



Q I v;ill ask you to take a look. Sergeant, at Prosecution Exhibit J 
30 and tell us what it roorcsents; that is Prosecution Exhibit 
30 for identification. 

A The handkerchief tied to the cable represents the rope, sir. | 

Ql ViJas or v/as not that photograph taken from a closer viev; than ] 
the other one? i 

A It was. 

Q, Than prosecution Exhibit 29. State v;hether or not the hand- I 

kerchief remained in the same place as it was in Prosecution ^ 
Exhibit 29, or whether it v/as removed? . . ■ | 

A It remained in the same place. j 

] 

Trial Judge Advocate; I nov/ offer in evidence Prosecution 
Exhibit 30, as our next exhibit. 

Law Member' Any objection? 

Defense: No objection. 

Law Member: It may be received as Prosecution Exhibit 30. } 

'i 

The photograph marked Prosecution Exhibit 30 v/as received in i 
evidence. 3 

'i 

Trial Judge Advocate ^ I v/ill ask you to mark this as | 

Prosecution Exhibit for identification, the next in order. ' 

(The document referred to was marked Prosecution Exhibit 
31 for identification.) ^. 

Q, I will ask you to look at this photograph v/hich is Prosecution 
Fxhibit 31 for identification and tell us what it represents, 
please? 

A The handkerchief tied to the cable represents the rope hcnging ' 
from the cable. 

710 



Q, llo\7, ¥»fill you stato to the Court whether or not this is 
a front or a back view of the cchlo, the rungs of the 
ladder as it runs up the tree? 

A What? 

Q I say, \7ill you state whether that picture v;as takon from the 
sam... position as the othei' photographs v;cre taken, or from a 
different position? 

A Prom a different position. 

Q What is the difference? 

A It is practically froxii the opposite way, the way the cahlo 
runs . 

Q Was it taken from the front of this ladder, or the roar of 
this ladder? 

Law Eemb'^r: IJas it taken froiu the opposite direction of 
ProsGCution "Exhibit 29? Show him that, \jill you. Colonel? 

Trial Judge Advocate" Yes. ■ 

Defense" I think it v/as. 

Q, The question was, whether it v^as !-aken from the opposite direc- 

tion from the way this one was taken, this v/ay? 

A Yes, sir. It v/as about from the right from the v/ay that one 
was taken. 

Q, Now, what wo are trying to get at is, this Prosecution Exhibit 
29 shows a front viev/? 

A Yes. 

Q *ivIow, does this show a fror-t viev; or a back viowr 

A Shows a back viovj. ^•. 

Trial Judge Advocate ^ vJell, that is v/hat wo are interested in. 
Thank you. I v/ill offer Prosecution Exhibit 31, in evidence. 

Law I"' ember; Any objection? 

Defense: No objection. 

Law Fomber: Received as Prosecution Exhibit 31. 

The photograph m.arkod Prosecution ;;Cxhibit 31 for identification 
was received in evidence. 

Q, Now, Sergeant, v/ith respect to '?/ho removed the body from the 
Cable, what are the facts? 

A Vi/cll, sir, they put a blanket around the Italian. 

Q Well, now, Y\ras that done before his body was taken from the 

711 



cablG? 

A Y0S5 sir. 

Q, I SCO, all right. ^ 

A Woll, then I dumb up on the laddor. 

Q V\fho did? 

A I did. And I untied thu rope. 

(^ Now, all right. Right thorc you untiod the ropo. Toll the 
Court about how that ropo v/as tiod to the cable, as best you 
romcmbor ? 

A Well, sir, it was v/rappod around and made kind of c. half- 
hitch, about tv/o half hitches. 

Q Do you kno\7 ho¥/ many tiraos it v/as v/rappcd around the cable? 

A Wrapped around about throe times, and two half hitches as 
woll as I can rcmombcr. 

Q V\frappcd around about three times and tv/o half hitches, ho 
said. How, you said you untied the rope, and v/hat then? 

A Then I started lotting him dov/n and there v;as three other 
men got ahold of the blanket and let hi^ down. 

Q Do you knov/ v/hcro ho was taken from thorc? 

A Yes, sir. V/o took him from thoro and carried hirn down the 
hill and put him in the back of an ambulance. 

Q \7as this Italian dead or alive at that time? 

A Ho was dead. '» ■' . 

Q, Did you accompany the body any particular place? 

A No, sir. That is the last I scon of hira. 

Q, Ko Yifas placed in the ambulance and after that you saw the body 
no more ? 

A No, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate ;• Prosecution has no further qiiestions, 
if it please the Court. 

CROSS-SXAMINATIOI- 

C^uostions by Defense' 

Q, Isn't thoro one othor photograph? 

Trial Judge Advocate : There wore four, Iv-'ajor. 

Defense" Oh, yes. 

712 



Q V<Pr;, you are the individual that is ahoxm in Prosecution's 
Exhibit 29? 

A Ygs, sir. 

Q And you are also the individual sho\'m in Prosecution's 
Exhibit 28 on the rustic ladder there on that tree? 

A Yes, sir. "-- ; 

Q How tall are you. Sergeant? . - -. .." 

A Six feet sir. • 

Q Will you come over against the post. «Vo have got a rough 
scale over here. ^ 

A (Acting as requested.) " *■ - 

Q, You are a little over six foot, aren't you, with your shoes 
on? 

A Six feet .in my stocking feet. 

Defense^ Can v;c agree that he is six feet tv/o inches as 
he is standing? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, about six foot one and a half 
inches, I v^ould say. Yes, that's right, about six and one and o 
half. 

Q, Do you kno\7 ¥/hat the extent of your arra reach is? 
A Ho, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let's have a measure again? 

Defense: Ho is a perfect man, I just want to shov; it. 

Trial Judge Advocate^ Hold it hero and mark it off hero. 
Now, just as you wore standing in the photograph is what you 
want to have, isn't it, Major? 

Defense: Well, of course, he has got it the other way. 

Trial Judge Advocate ^ l^o, no. The other vray, nov/. 

Defense-: Then we arc talking, about tvo different pictures. 
Well, all right, we will find out both ways. 82 inches. How 
reach your arm out the other way and let us see how far you reach. 
About 31 inches. 

President: Vi/hat was the reach up above his head? 
Defense^ 82 inches. 

Q, Few, Sergeant, the place where you have tied the handkerchief 
as shown in Prosecution Exhibit 30, was that actually 
measured? . -. 



A From whore? 

Q V/0II5 v/as it moasurod from Gn3"A'h.orc? 

A Yes ; sir » 

Q Vifoll, whore v/as it racasurud from, and to v/horc? 

A Measured from the end of the top stop to tho handkorchiof 
and it was moasurod from tho trco to tho handkorchiof. 

Trial Judge Advocrto- Tho Post lilngincur has those ivieasurc- 
monts. 

Q IVellj it was measured from tho stop marked X in inlt nov/ 
here to tho handkerchief? 

A Yes 5 sir. 

Q And also from, the end of tho stup I have marked with an X 
to the handkerchief and also measured fror: the bottom at 
tho side of tho tree to tho handkerchief, from vi/here I 
havG marked with two X's? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, v;hat was tho measurement from the end of the step to 
tho handkorchiof? 

A I don't laiov;. 

Q Well, do you recall tho measurement from tho end of the tree, 
the bottom, up to the handkerchief? 

A No, sir. 

Q ' Nov/ v/as that measurement made v/hile tho body v/as still hang- 
ing there ? 

A No, sir, not that I knov/ of. 

Q Vi/ell, hov; was the place v/hero tho rope was m.ado fast to tho 
Cable identified? 

A Well, sir, it was not identified, it was just as well as 
I romom_bered v/hcre the rope was hanging. 

Q In other words, you used your recollection as to v;here the 
rope was hangin; in making' the later measuroments ? 

A Yos, sir. 

Q, What is your besb recollection at this tim.o about how far 

it v/as from the end of the top step that you have marked 

or I hrv.-; marked v/ith an X on Prosecution Exhibit 30 to tho 
handkerchief? 

A i don't remember, sir, hov/ far it was. 

714 



fe. 



Q, Vi?as it cbout four foot? 

A Somcv/hcro botv/een about throe and four foot, sir. 

Q Did you notice how tho rope was made fast around the doccasod's 
nock? 

A No, not exactly, sir. 

Q VJ'oll, v/as it tied around more than once i , ■ 

A I don't rcinembcr hov; many times It v/as tied around. 

Q Do you rom>jmbor v/hat kind of a knot was tied on the nock? 

A As well as I remenibor, sir, it was kind of a slip knot. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Spoak out louder. Sergeant. There 
are a couple members of the Board v/ho ar^ having difficulty in 
hearing you. Raise your voicoj v:ill you, please? 

Q What kind of a knot v/as it again where tho rope was luade 
fast to the cable? 

A It was wrapped around tho cable about three times and it had 
about two half hitches. 

Q, It had a couple of half hitches? 

A Yes. 

Q And hov/ much rope ?/as there at the place where it was around 
the cable down to the deceased's neck? 

A I don't know, sir. 

Q Was there as much as a foot of rope hanging, or tv/o foot, 
or approximately how much v/as it? 

A I believe, sir, a little bettor than two foot. 

Q Did you save the rope afterwards? 

A It was left around his neck. 

Q It v/as loft around his neck? 

A Yes, sir, v/hen wo put him in the ambulaiic^^. 

Q How long a piece of rope v/as it altogether? 

A I don't l-cnow, sir. They rolled it up and had it layiiig on 
the blanket. 

Q No?/, this type of underbrush that is shov/n around those 

various photographs, for example, in Prosecution Exhibit 31. 
Prosecution Exhibit 23. Prosecution Exhibit 29. Hoy/ high 
is that underbrush? 

715 



A You mo en right under v/horc tho handkor chief is ? 

Q No, I mean in that gcnorcl vicinity. 

A I don't know, sir; I didn't pay r.ny attention to that. 

Q, You didn't pay any attention to that? 

A Fo, sir. 

Q Did you notice tho doccasod's feet? 

A The what? 

Q The decoasod's feet, as he v/as han^am^ suspended from tho 

cable? 

A You mean from his foot to the ground? 

Q No, did you notice his feet? 

A Oh, not so much. 

Q V/ere they clean or wore they dirty? 

A I don't remem.her that, sir. 

Q Wasn't there dry mud on them? 

A I don't remember, sir. 

Defense; I have no further questions. 

REDIRECT EXAMIlTATIOr 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Just on^ or tvfo more questions, if I m.ay. Sergeant, did 
you, yourself, make the mcasuroments that Fajor Beeks in- 
quired about or did .'joraeonc else m.ako the measurements? 

A I made the moasuremonts from the tree and from th^ top stop 
to the handkerchief. 

Q You mean you called them, off? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Vtfho was there taking the measurements down? 

A Some man from the post enf-jincers. 

Q Maj. EclTay, was he ther'., from the Post Snginov^rs? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, one further question. Will you look at this rope that 

I am handing you. Take a rpod look at it. Now, vdll you toll 

716 



tho Court whether or not the rope you arc nov; inspecting 
was of the typo of rope that you found c.round the n^ck of 
this dead Italian; 

A It is something of that kind. I T;ouldn't say for sure be- 
cause I didji't pay much attention to th^ rope. 

Q I see. You dic^n't pay much attention to the rop..,? 

A I'o, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I'o further questions. 

Defense- I h-.ve no further CLUOstions. 

:i;XAi:iFATION BY T]iL COURT 

Questions by Law ?;'oribor- 

Q, After you got to th^.. scei^e and discovered this body. Sergeant, 
what was the poaition of the deceased's arms? 

A They were han; inr, straight by his sides, sir. 

Q They v/ere not tied behind his back? 

A Fo, air. 

Law Kember- 'Ihat is a.ll. 

Defense : You have a picture of him hanging there, don't you. 
Counsel? 

Trial Judge Advocate J -ifo, sir; I certainly wish I did, but 
I haven't, unfortunately. Ther^ was one thing furthur that 
the question just asked by the law member suggested to me. 

R^DIR3CT EXiiKINATION 
Questions by Trial Judge x'ldvocate- 

Q Sergeant, was there a box or a stool, or anything else any- 
where in thw vicinity of \;hore this Italian v;as hanging? 

A I didn't notice anything. 

Q When you approached the body did you see underneath this 
deceased Italian anything othjr than tho ground itself? 

A Yes, sir; I did. 

Q What was that? 

A There was a cardboard laying directly under the Italian's 
feet. 

Q A cardboard? : 

A Yes, sir. A piece of c-:rdboard froii a cardboa.rd box, just 

717 



c little to tho front of his foot. 

Q, Did you notice v/hcthor or not there vns footprints there? 

A ITo, sir, I didn't move tho cardboard. 

Q Do you know v/ho placed the cardboard there or v/hen it 
was placed? 

A I don't kno'w when it was placed there, but I was told th.^re 
was a footprint tinder tho cardboard after, 

Law L'erabor (interposing): Well, nov/', wait a minute. Vii'hat 
v/as that last part of that ansv/or? 

(Last answer read baclc.) 

Lr.w I.'eriiber^ That should come out, that last portion should 
come out^ as to v-hat h^ Yio.a told. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, I will agree to take that out. 
I think that is all. 

R3CR0SS EXAMIFATION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Vifhich way v/as the deceased facing? 

A His face was towards the water. 

Q And his back was towards the uphill? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q And was his hoad cither to his left or his riglit, or hang- 
ing forward, or just hov; was it hanging? 

A As well as I remember, sir, it v/as a little to his right. 

Q A little to his right? 

k Yes, sir, a little to his right. ~ "; ■ 

Defense: That's all. 

President: Any further questions by tho Court? 

l!aj. Carpenter: I have a question, yes. 

EXAMINATION BY T::IL COURT 

Questions by Major Carp-.>ntor; 

Q Vlfhat did you notic:., did you notice any jeep or car tracks 
in that area? 

A Vo, sir, I didn't. 

718 



^JT'^? 



Maj. Cnrpontor: That is all. " • 

Prosidcni: ' Anythino; furthor? Witness v\fill bo oxcusocl.. 

Witness oxcusod. 

J.'aj. Gworgc H. McNay, Corps of Snginoors^ a witnoss for tho 
Prosecution, V'^as sv/orn and testified as follows: 

DIRECT EX;j',!H'TATIOr 

Questions by Trial Judgi- Advocator 

Q. State your namo;, your gr,';do, your organization, and your sta- 
tion, please? 

A George 11. KcFay, Major, Corps of Engineers, Post Engineer, 
Fort Lav/ton, "Vashington. 

Q, Vovi, ho-;- long hav^ you been Post Engineer at Fort Lav/ton, 
Vif ashing ton? 

A Since tho Post Engineer v/aa established, by transfer to the 
Corps of Engineers, December 15, 1941. 

Q And you are serving as Post Engineer at the present time, too? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Major, I am going to pass to Prosecution Exhibits 28, 29, 30 

and 31, and ask you to toll the Court whether you v/erc present 
when these photographs v/ero taken. P"ov;, before ansv;ering 
that question, I v/ant to call to your attention the fr.ct that 
there is a little piece cut out of one of tho photographs, 
and just don't pay any attention to that. All right, v/ill 
you look at them please? 

A (Examining photographs) If these -./oro all taken :.t the 

sam.o ti.ne, that is the, 

Q (interposing) YjoII, the testimony shov/s they v;ere taken at 

the sam.o timio, but take a good look at thorn and see if 

you remember all those scenes. 

A Yes, sir. I remember all of tho scenes except the time. 

Q Nov:, in connection ?/ith taking of those photographs, I will ask 
you to tell the Court whether or not any distances v/cre 
measured? 

A Yes, sir; they \7ore. 

Q, And will you tell tho court whether the distance from the 
cable as shoima in Prosecution :_;xhlbit 28 and at the point 
where Sergeant Robinson held his finger, Y/hothor tho dis- 
tance from, the cable to tho ground was measured? 

A Yes, sir, it was. 

719 



Q Do you have tlict moasuromont v/ith you? 

A Yos, sir, I clo. 

Q Will you toll tho Court rrho.t that ?/as? 

A It was moQsurod es tor foot end four inches. 

Dofonso: Did you i.ctually moasuro it yourself? 

V^itness: I did not. I bollove it v:as measured by Fr. Clerk. 

Q But under your supervision? 

A Yos, sir, undur my supervision ns c, professional ongineor. 
That measured ten feet four inches to the ground directly 
below there. 

Q, No?/, were the distances measured frori v/here the handkerchief 
is tied in Prosecution ^ixhibit 30, to the tre:., or to one 
of the rungs of the ladd>^r, that ..ppoars on the tro-j? 

A I believo they v:ore both measured. 

Q All right, v;ill you give us those distances? First, tho 
point on tho tree to thu point where the handkerchief v/as 
tied. 

A Prom the nearest point on the tree to thu handkerchief was 
four feet seven inches. 

Q Tell us now the distrnce from the run,, vrhct was it, the 

top rung? " ■■ . 

A I believe it v/as, sir. 

Q All right. .^- ' " 

A Three feet. 

Q From th-^re to th^.. handk^jrchi^f , is that correct? 

A Yos, sir. ■ • 

Q All rirht. '.'hat othur distances were 3-;ieasured ta.re? 

A I believe before v/e luft vo measured the disti.nC'^s that the 
camera was placed. :■.,■"■'• 

Q Do you have those distances? 'vno wight as .roll got thorn in 
the record, just wh^r^ thu camera was placed. • 

A Do you v/ant the^i in relation to the pictures? ;'■""• 

Q, Yes. You select thu first picture that you have talked to us 
about . 

A This distance is thirty feet. 

720 



Q All right. Pow, Prosecution's Exhibit 28, tho cc.mora 
wr.s thirty foot av/cy from tho, ' -- ■ . 

A From tho troo. 

Q All right. Tho noxt ono, ploaso, sir. 

A This ono is twonty-nino foot, eight inches. 

Q Tv/onty-ninc foot and eight inches. Now, which ono is thct? 

A This one (indicating). . ' , "r 

Q All right. Thct is Prosecution's Exhibit 30, froir Y-hr.t point 
to what point? 

A From the position of the camera to that point. 

Defense: The tree is th^. closest point you measured, I'ajor'? 

Witness' Yos. . 

A This one is seventy feet and five inches. 

Q Prom the camera, this is Prosecution Exhibit 29. FroEi tho 
troo to the camera. 

A Seventy feet and nin^^ inches, ^.nd this ono v;as not m.easurod. 

Q You did not measure the distance from the camera to tho 
tree in Prosecution Exhibit 31? That v;as tho roar viov;? 

A ITo. 

Q, All right. Iv.cjor, do you rcmombor hov/ you came to that 

area on tho day those measurements wore made, what road you 
traveled? 

A Yos, sir. I used my jeep, my regular car. 

Q Do you usually or not travel in a jeep? 

A Consistently. 

Q Who parked that Jeep? 

A I believe I did. 

Q Viforo you told where to park it? 

A No, sir. 

Q V/as anything ever discussed in connection with that point 
where that joep was prrkod by you? 

A Fo, sir. 

Q, Incidentally, vrtio else was present vrhen those pictures v/oro 

721 



mado, cs far as you romombor? 

A You wore thoroj end tho Ccptam. 

Q Cr.ptcln Bran-r nd? 

A And Corporr.l T/Sj I bcliovo that is Y/hat thoy called him. 

Q ii/hat did ho do? 

A I rcnicnbor specifically that ho ran across that cablo-v/ay 
to the other side. That is the only thing I ronu-mbcr par- 
ticularly and my associa.to engineer from the office; there 
VTO.B one other soldier there, I don't know vrhat he did. 

Q Do you knov/ kaj. Orom? • • 

A Yes. 

Q Vifas he there •' 

A Yes. 

Defense" I understand him to say that you \7ere there, also. 
Colonel? 

Trial Judge Advocr.te" Yes. 

Q Did anyone els-j come down in the area of that jeep while you 
i.vcrc there? ', - . 

A I'Tot that I remember, while I was there, sir. 

Q, Do you remember how i cam.^ down there ? 

A In a sedan. 

Q 'All right. Fow, lajor, did you ever have occasion to make 
an estimate of the distance from the recreation hall in tho 
Italian area down to the tree where this cable v/as tied to, 
thw tree wo have boon talking about? 

A I have only mioasured it on maps. I have never measured 
it on the ground. 

Q, Did you measure it on a map? Well, tell us something about 

that map. Is it an accurate m.ap, or are you in a position to 
^ testify as to its accuracy? 

A I am in a position to testify as to its reasonable accuracy. 
It is m.ade fror; tracings Y/hich have been prepared by the 
Seattle City Hngineer^, and all the m_aps are based from that 
in this area, 

Q, State whether or not that is the map you used in your ¥/ork in 
this area? 

A It is. , : 

722 



Q, State whether or not it is considered an official map for 

your office for that purpose, I don't mean prepared by 

your office, but used by your office? 

A It is, yes, sir. 

Q, Do you have that map with you? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Will you please unfold it and let us take a look at it or 
unroll it, rather. Is this the only map of its kind that 
you have in your office? 

A 1 believe it is. In fact, I took that off the wall. 

Q, Major, I assume we can have the witness testify from this 
map (indicating). 

Defense: It does not show distances on a plane, or over 

different contours or levels. It is just a flat distance map. 

^ Major, have you ever been over the Italian area and par- 
ticularly back of the recreation hall, between the recreation 
hall and v;here this cable was that you have seen? and that 
appears on these photographs which is suspended? 

A I have been by there only once that I particularly remember 
I have been in there. There is a draw in there that drains 
part of that area and I had to make a study on it one time 
several years ago. 

Q, Now, have you been over that particular area, the one I 
have just described to you, in recent months? 

A V/hen the obstacle course was first laid out through there, 
I went over the obstacle course once. 

Q, Is this cable that appears in these photographs. Prosecu- 
tion Exhibits 28 to 31, inclusive, is that cable a part 
of the obstacle course? 

A I believe it is, sir. 

Q, I am not going to ask you to do it with accuracy, but I 
want you to give this Court some general idea, using as 
a basis the map that is used in your office, an idea of 
what the distance is from the recreation hall in the 
Italian area down to the tree in this photograph as 
appearing in Prosecution Exiiibits 28 to 31, inclusive. 

Defense: I object to that, if the Court please. I think 

the Major has been very fair so far and I don't think he has 

shown the qualification to be able to do that with any degree of 
accuracy. 

Law Member: As I understand it, the Major made at 

723 



least one trip dov/n through the obstacle course when that v/as 
laid out and also made one previous inspection of that 
area for a study of drainage. And he seems to be acquainted 
with the district engineer's map and all he has been asked 
for Is his best judgment. I believe the witness Is quali- 
fied to state his opinion of the distance between the recrea- 
tion hall and the tree. The objection Is overruled. 

Defense: Well, of course, it Is sho^mi on a flat surface 
on the map and it is not on a piano surface. If the Court 
thinks that is a proper ruling, all right. 

Law Engineer: The Lav/ Member knows there Is a slope 
there . 

Q . All right, ^'"ou may proceed, 

A As I understand your question, it is from the recreation 
hall,--- 

Q From the recreation hall in the Italian area dov/n to the 
tree, 

A This map I am using is on a one to two scale, and using 
an engineer's scale of tv/enty, v/e can read direct from 
those to approximate locations. An airline between 
the two wo^xld be approximately 450 feet. 

Lavf Member: Nov/^ can you give me your best judgment 
as to the distance on the ground from the tree to which the 
cable is attached and to the recreation hall? 

The Witness: In a straight line? 

Law Member: Along the ground. 

The Witness: A straight line along the ground? 

Law Member: Yes, sir. 

Witness: It should not exceed 450 feet, 

Q Nov/, Major, I believe you previously testified that you 

have personally, well, let me ask you this first. Is 

there a path leading from close to the recreation hall 
to where this cable was tied to the tree? 

A I don't believe I could say there is or there isn't. 

Q You don't remember whether there is or there isn't. 
Well, all right, Nov/, did you make at my request an 
analysis of ^vhat the lighting fixtures v/ere in the 
Italian area, and let me mention to you, you may look 
at your map, but v/e are talking about Barracks 708, 
709, 710, 711, 712, and 713. 

A Yes, sir, 

724 



Q Now, let me go over that with you again. That is 

Barracks 708, 709, 710, 711, 712, and 713. Those are 
the barracks as to which there has been evidence in 
this record. 

A Yes, sir. I did. 

Q Now, how were those barracks equipped in so far as 
lighting fixtures are concerned on August 14, 1944? 

A They were equipped according to standard plans, inside 
and out, except for the addition of an outside light 
over the door. .By that I mean the standard plan 
only called for a light on one end of the building 
and the contractor had put these in with lights on 
both ends, 

Q Now, was that true v/ith respect to Barracks 70S? 

A Can I check that? 

Q Yes, I v/ish you would. I an going to ask you about 
each one of those barracks because I want to make 
sure . 

Law Member: llfhat one v/as he just talking about. 

Trial Judge Advocate : He was talking about all of 
them. I asked him about all of them but nov; I want to ask 
him about this one, 708, in particular, 

A That is true of Barracks 708. 

Q There were lighting fixtures on each end of that barracks? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, were there or not lighting fixtures on each end of 
Barracks 709? 

Law Member: Do you refer nov/ to the lights or just to 
the fixtures, the sockets? 

Q Will you describe that, Major? 

A They had originally put in a piece of ordinary pipe, and 
they made that, bent it into a goose-neck this way (in- 
dicating) as it came out of the building, and then a 
drop light was attached on that. 

Defense: You don* t pretend to Imov/ whether they were 
v/orking or glowing on this particular night of August 14, 
1944? 

The Witness: No, sir. 

Q Now, what about Barracks 709, 

725 



A Both ends. 

Q, And 710? 

A Both ends. 

Q, 713? 

A One end and one side, where the two doors were. 

Q How about the latrine, 712? 

A A light on each of the long sides, that is where the 
doors were« 

Q, How about 711? 

A Both ends. 

Q, Were there any arc lights or any pole lights of any kind 
in that area? 

A No, sir. 

Q, Well, there were none on the night of August 14, 1944? 
A No, sir. 

Q, Do you recall whether or not there was a light at 

Wyoming,— no, at Lawton Road and Virginia Avenue, on 
August 14, 1944, or do you know, do you recall whether 
or not there was a street light there? 

A My memory indicates there was no light. I am not posi- 
tive. 

Q, What I am trying to do is find out, ' 

Defense: You have already stipulated there was not. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right. I was just trying to 
find out, . 

Law Member: There was none at Virginia Avenue and Lawton 
Road. ^ ° 

The Witness: That's right. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, that's right. 

Q Now, Major, at my request, did you or not make some 

measurements also of the distance from the second window 

in the Barracks 709, the distance from that window 

to the ground and when I say the second window I am speak- 
ing of the second window from the northern corner of the 
barracks, 709? 

A Yes, sir, the one you pointed out there, I did. 

726 



Q All right. And what did you find that distance to be 
from the v/indow to the ground? I assumed you measured 
it from the window sill, didn't you? 

A I thought I had that dope here, but it donH look: like 
it. I can't find it. 

Q Let's see. You may have given that to me. 

A No, sir. I don't have that information with me now. 

(^ We have here what you gave us, Major, but you might see 
if this refreshes your recollection, and then if there 
is any doubt about it you can measure it and confirm it. 

A These are, I believe these are correct, sir. 

Defense: You go ahead and ju&t testify. Major, of these 
distances as they appear on this sheet,;, and then you can take 
them with you and when you get back if you find any corrections, 
will you let us know? 

The Witness: Yes. Will you state your question, again? 

Q, The question is, what is the distance from the outside of 
that window on the sill to the ground, of the second 
window of B-arracks 709? 

'A Nine feet and five inches. 

Q, Did you measure it from the inside of the sill to the floor? 

A Yes. 

Q, Vi/hat have you got there? 

A Four feet even. 

Law Member; Is that inside? 

Trial Judge Advocate: The other one was outside, and this 
is inside. 

Q, The first one v^as from the sill to the ground and the 
second one was from the sill to the floor inside, four 
feet even, is that right? 

A Yes, sir. • 

Q, Now, Major, did you also make measurements of the window 

will you step up here, please? Now, Vt/hich is, that 

window v>/hich is in Room Y of the orderly room as indicated 
on Prosecution Exhibit 3, did you make measurements? 

A Yes, sir. 

727 • 



Q, And I will ask you first what distance did you find it 
to be from the sill to the ground on the outside? 

A Five feet and two inches, 

Q And what distance did you find it to be from the sill 
to the floor on the inside? 

A Three feet eleven inches. 

Q, All right; thank you, sir. Now, you will check that 

with your figures at the office and make sure of that? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q What was that last one, three feet and what? 

A Three feet and eleven inches. 

Q Oh, yes. Major, will you tell the Court whether or 
not there is a road that leads to the vicinity of the 
area that is indicated in these Prosecution's photographs, 
Prosecution Exhibits 28 to 31, inclusive, any road in 
that general area? 

A Yes, sir. There is a road, what we call the North Beach 
Road, which connects the main road to West Point and the 
area in which the trees would be. 

Q All right. Now, state whether or not there has been 

any change in that road since the time that, 

since August 14, 1944? 

A There has been some construction on that road. The 
ditch was, the gutter was enlarged and excavated, 

material was taken from other points on the Post and 

were dumped at the lowest elevation of the road and 

made a rather deep fill of about, of a vertical depth 

of approximately fifteen feet. Do you want that loca- 
tion? 

* 

Q I would appreciate it if you would tell the Court about 
this. Now, let's see. Did you take any measurements 
that indicated, — or did you make any estimate that in- 
dicates how far that road was from the cable itself or 
from the tree where the cable was tied to? 

A Yes, sir, I believe I did. 

Q I thought so, too, I wish you would look at the 
records and tell us what the distance was. 

A A horizontal distance. Just estimated from the embank- 
ment of the road to the tree, of thirty feet. That is 
a vertical distance. 

Q, And give the Court your best estimate of what you would 

728 



add to that distance because of the slope? 

A Approximately twelve feet. 

President: Not vertical, you mean horizontal. 

The V/itness: Yes, that's right. 

Trial Judge Advocate: We will let the record show that 
you meant horizontal distance instead of vertical. 

President: That was forty feet? ^ 

Trial Judge Advocate: No, thirty feet and 12 more added 
to it. 

President: Twelve feet you added to it on account of the 
slope? 

The V/itness: Yes, sir, that is correct, 
Q, Have you seen this map before (indicating)? 
A Yes, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Have you? 

Defense: No. 

Q, From your tcnowledge and surveys of that area, will you 

tell the Court just about how that road runs; just give the 
Court your best idea on that, bearing in mind the contours 
on the night of August 14, 1944? 

A Beginning at the west point road, it makes an extremely 

sharp turn to the right. West Point is off the map. And 
it turns north at, I would estimate, about a 3-degree 
slope. It is fairly flat. Until it reaches about 1/3 
of the distance and then it passes through what we call 
a slide area. There is unstable ground and the slop 
itself fluctuates during the year and it has held about 
seven or eight per cent the last year. And it holds 
that then to within about 150 feet of the beach where 
it drops very sharp, at about 11 per cent. That describes 
the condition of the road prior to the fill we made. Now 
that last 11 per cent has been or has since been made in 
the road at the time the Colonel is speaking of, it 
drops sharply just before it gets to the beach. It is 
considered a very poor and undependable road for all pur- 
poses. It is not used for commercial purposes and other 
heavy Government vehicles. 

Q, Well, what was the general condition of that road in the 

month of August, 1944, at the point where it comes closest 
to the cable that you have identified in these pictures? 

A It opened up right in that area so that you could turn 

729 



right on down to the beach. It was quite wide, and 
fairly flat and was in usually a sound condition, ex- 
cept in extremely wet weather. 

Q And beyond that point, where did that road carry to or what 
was it used for? 

A Prior to the construction of the beach road that is there 

now, it didn • t go anywheres. That was the end of it, 

Just to the bsach . 

Q, That was the ^rd of it just to the beach prior to some 
subsequent construction, subsequent to August 14, 1944? 

A> •!. C b f 

Trial Judge Advocate: I believe the prosecution has no 
further questions. 

Defense. I notice it is now three o'clock. I wonder 
if the Court wishes to take its recess.. 

President: The Court will take a 15-minute recess. 

(Court was recessed for 15 minutes and reconvened and 
proceeded as follows; j 

President: Is the Prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, sir. 

President? Defense rsady? 

Defense: Defense is ready, yes, sir. 

President: Court will come to order. 

Trial Judge Advocate; Let the recjrd show that all members 
of the accused are present and the per^'onnel of the Court are 
present and the personnel representing i;he prosecution as well 
as the personnel representing the accused are present. And 
Major McNay, you are remanded you are still under oeth. 

The Witness: Yes, sir. 

Maj. George H McNay, resumed the stand and testified 
further as follows: 

Trial Judge Advocate; Now, before we proceed with the 
cross examination, Major, you used the map that you made reference 
to in estimating the distance from the recreation hall to the 
cable? 

The Witness-. Yes, eir. 

Trial Judge Advocate; Now, I merely want to have that 
map identified as Prosecution Exhibit, and I will return it to 
you. 

730 



Law Member: Are you offering that map? 

Trial Judge Advocate: No, I am not offering it, but I am 
asking if it can be identified as a Prosecution exhibit, and 
then he will take it with him. 

Law Member: Well, that is true, but I thought you would 
offer it in evidence and have a blueprint copy substituted. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I would be very glad to do that. 
All right. I will offer it in evidence then. 

Law Member: Is there any objection, Major? 

Defense: Well, there is no objection. 

Law Member: The map will be received in evidence as 
Prosecution Exhibit No 32 with the understanding that this map 
will be returned to the witness who will acquire copies there- 
from and furnish them in place of this original exhibit. 

The map above referred to was marked Prosecution Exhibit 
52 and received in evidence. 

Trial Judge Advocate: And that can be substituted for it. 
That is all right, isn't it. Major? 

The Witness: Yes. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all, 

CROSS EXAMINATION 

(Questions by Defensei 

Q, Major, do you recall the date that Prosecution Exhibits 
28, 29, 30, and 31, were taken? 

A Not exactly, no, sir. 

Q, Well, approximately, when was it? 

A It seems to me it was about six weeks. 

Q, That would be some time about the middle of October? 

A I believe so, but I am not, I am not very certain. 

Q, Well, Major, at the time these photographs were taken 

was there anything on the cable shown in prosecution's 
Exhibit 30 to indicate the place at which this handker- 
chief was tied to this cable? 

A^don't understand that question. The handkerchief was 

Qj Well, was the handkerchief placed there the day you took 
the pictures? 

731 



A Y^s. 

^, r.ow, prior to ti.e haudkaroixief beinb pi cad there, wps 

there en/thing to identify the pfrticuler piece at which 
the hendkirchi'-jf vvas tied? 

A I did not see anythiri£. 

^ .'ou didii't ::otice an, thing there. You didn't notice that? 

A i\o, sir. 

Q, i.ell, the nijasur^ffients tnet you have msdo and vjhich you 
previously teotilied to, I understand you s-icured those 
?/ith some as:,iotrnc3 or Oosistant? 

A :e o , t, i r . 

Q, '.nd the oooistant Li-'de the actual luer ^urements and clled 

theiii off to you and you vjrote them dov;n in your book as 
he called th^m off to you, is that the Y<ay it was done? 

A Yes, sir. 

Defense: v<ill you mark this as the next defense exhibit? 

iriai tiudge 'dioc^te: For icientif ica tion. 

Leiense: On, yes; surely. 

The docu..ient aLovo reierred to was m rked Defense i;xhibit 
,. ior identification. 

j-av/ i-.eCxter ; is that Defense jxhitit J*^ 

Gourt Reporter: Zes, sir. 

fj Kandiug you, i,.s,oi, ',vnct has been r;.«=trked Defense _,xhibit 
J for idcntif icatiOii, I v;ilj. ask you to step over here 
ana l^ok at it for a moiii^nt. I v-ili ask you if tbis map 
iliustr- tes f?irxy v.ell the iianner in vhich the road from 
'west Point couies ui; to Missouri Avenue on the south and 
also v.'hc;re it ^joiiii into ..issouri 'ven^^e on the Torth? 

A Yes, sir. it represents it pretty veil except for the 
road that comes around here { inaica tin^;) . 

Q i:ow, by "here" yoi^ mean that at the present time the road 
on the north side of v/eot loint has been extended to make 
a junction viitt. the road on the south side of West Point? 

A Yes, sir. This road now goes to the Copst Guard buoy 

light which ic ciractly east, we-t of those buildings. 

Q Well, now, let us Le c:ure. let us put a line on there 

so there -'On't be any possibility of confusion and, too, 

732 



J ar. a/raicl tue Court is oCi.ig to iasist \ie 1 avo tlien 
in jii'.. .ore is i. _-Uu« 1 \.'c;iidc-r jf you 'jc! lu just re- 
Lrcce t' o... -.iitii t.xis ..en? 

ii. (ll^r-;:.:l^ en r a .). ' 

vj Yes. lov,', the crtion tlxat ;^o'. hf.ve dra-vi: iii on Defouse 
Ezlii':)it J for idoutif ici^tion '.;itl- broiien lines jndicatos 
a road jniOi; has beeii ccustri..cted since tl.is drav/^'ng 
v.'as r\u6.e''i 

A Yes, sir, 

Q <7as tu&t road in there indicated b • the brcLen lin-'S in 

tjicre on iiU^just 14, l^A/i? 

ii This v/ost hTancn vas not. Tnis May or nay not have been, 

I v;oij.ld n^.ve to check (i:idicating)« 
Q Well, I don't thin; it is y.. rtici.l^rly ii , ortant, any.^ay. 

I won't ask you to check it, Colonel. 

Trial Judi.e Advocate: aII riiJit. ' 

Law heLibcr: ".'L.y is 'h:at road material? 

Defense It isn't, as far as I an ccncernod, but the 
w'ltiicss says there is Znut uirrcrence, and if it is that 
dli'i'erence, I -•■■ant it ,.ointed oi t. as far as I aa concerned 
it is ir.:.atorial. 

Let; i cu'oovi 'Veil, ^'e are receiving: it, but it seens 
to ne v.-e are ^oinii into sorie questions or soi^e roads that 
are v<:ry ii.uia'c .rial. 

Defense: I tnin.. it ^/ould be "^ery .uaLerial to have the 
location of the road ceiling, dow'n to hissouri Avcn e. The 
portion indie <• ted as n; vin^ iJeen built since A', gust 14th, I 
think that -chose are of iio conseqience. line the road I am 
askin^ to be indicated on tjie nap, the road fron "est Point 
and to hisscuri Aveni 3 -.'nrs it is indicated, T thinl: that 
jiatter '^n.re is ii ;.crtaiit. 

Law renber: iill ri. ht. 

(^ .(as ti at road a naucV 

A' 1^0, it hasn't a nane. 

Q For the ..ur.ose of tnis trial, let us r?fer to that as 
txie 'iVest' Point hoad. Is there any objection? 

Trial Jud^^e Advocate: To, no, Uiere is no o jjeccion. 

A 1 ay J refer to t/iat? Prior t( dGsi::;nation of V/est Utah 
ycu will find yeo;,le th.-.t called that tne 'Jest Point 
hoad * 

Q "Jell, let V.U call t..ic the horth Shore Road, then. I ^^ill 

733 



just write it on the nap. I will draw on here tlie 
letter A and the letter B. How, as I understand that 
portion I have indicated on Defense Exhibit J for identi- 
fication betvveen the letters A and B is a portion of 
road that is being continually filled? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q In oth.er words, if the Court were to go down there at the 
present tine they would find a section of road that 
had been filled to a larger extent than existed on 

August 14, 1944? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q In other words, it is being built out in a northeasterly 
direction all the time? 

A Yes, sir. 

Lav; r.enbr.r: I'ay 1 ask oi:io question? 

Defens'e; Yes, surely. 

Law I'enber. How far is this road that is appearing on 
Defense Exhibit J for identification, that is dotten in by 
you, major, how far is that from the tree that appears in 
Exhibits 28 to 31, inclusive? 

Defense;. It is a long ways. It has got nothing to do 
with it. 

The Witness. I would estimate only, sir, approximately 
a thousand feet, 

Q V/ell, let us put this up on the board. I think the 

Court can see and understand it a little better. Now, 
Major, I wonder if you will come over to the map just a 
moment. I wonder if you would indicate with the letter 
T just approximately where the tree shown in Prosecution 
Exhibits 28 to 31, inclusive, is located. It does not 
have to bo accurate. Just for illustrative purposes. 

A Do you want it in relation to tiie road, or to the 
obstacle course? The reason I ask that is this 
obstacle course does not show the sane relative dis- 
tance to the road because, as I remarked, if it were 
marked that way the tree would be in the road which is ■ 
in this obstacle course. 

Law hembert "fell, just show us in reference to the 
■road, just approximately. 

The Witness; (uaricinc, on map) 

Q Hake that just a little bigger with a T, capital letter T, 
and a circle around here and this road is bounded by Lawton 

734- 



Road and Wyoming Avenue, this area, I moan is bounded 

by Lawton Road and Wyoming Avenue, is the Italian area? 

A Yes. 

Q Let us write that in there (indicating). 

(writing on map) . 

Q Now, this is a portion shown on Defense Exhibit J for 

.^.■^identification, between A and B here, which is constant- 
•.;.•■ ly and continuous!;^ being filled? 

A Yes, that is right. 

Q And building a road in the northeasterly direction, I 
understand? 

A Yes. 

Q And for the Court's information, this portion of the road 
shown by the dotted lines is the portion you drew in over 
there which you thought had been built since August 14, 
1944? 

A Yes. 

Q Now, I'issouri Avenue, on August 14, 1944, and during the 
summer prior tiiereto was a serviceable road, was' it not, 
major? 

A Yes, sir* 

Q And it was in continuous use? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q I think you said it has since, since within the last week or 
two been discontinued? 

A It has not boon aiscontinued but it is considered a 
hazardous road. 

Q That is because of slides and hazards? 

A Yes. 

Q But all of that portion there on August 14th was considered 
a good usable road? 



V 



es. 



Law Member; Is Ilissouri Avenue the avenue you said the 
tree was approximately forty feet from? 

The Witness. It would be the bottom of that, in its 
original condition, 

735 



Law Member: It would be thirty feet plus the twelve 
feet slope up? 

The Witness: Yes. 

Q, And Missouri Avenue is the only way you could possibly 
go up to the Italian area at the junction of Missouri 
Avenue and the North Shore Road? 

Law Member: What was that now? 

A I know that you can reach it over the obstacle course* 

Q By automobile? 

A No. 

Q By vehicle? 

A No. 

As far as I know there is no other way to reach it by 
vehicle. 

Q And in proceeding by vehicle to the junction of North 

Shore Road and Missouri Avenue, just explain to the Court 
how you would have to go? 

A Beginning where? 

Q, That is, the juncture of Lawton Road and Wyoming Avenue? 

A This road is just another cowpath. Normally, vehicles 
don't drive it or travel it, 

Q Show us how they would travel. 

A Down Lawton Road to the junction of Utah, 

Q, Up the junction, up Lawton Road, and ttvest on Main Street 
dovm Utah Street to Missouri Avenue? 

A Yes.Q, That is quite some little distance down that way, 
isn't it? 

A Yes. 

Q, Thank you, Major, You may sit down now if you will please. 
Now, as I understand it you are going to make at some time 
seme further measurements as suggested by the Court? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q I think, with that understanding, if the Court please, 

any cross examination I have further I will reserve until 
such time. 

Law Member: Do you want to offer Exhibit J in evidence? 

735 



Defense: Yes, sir, I will offer Exhibit J in evidence. 

Law Member: Have you any objection? 

Trial Jud^e Advocate: No, sir, no objection. 

Law Member: Receive Exhibit J, Defense Exhibit J, in 
evidence. 

The document above referred to marked Defense Exhibit J 
for identification was received in evidence. 

Trial Jedge Advocate: ITo further questions, sir. 

President: Any further questions by any member of the 
Court? 

ITaj. MacLennan: I have a question or two, 

EXAMINATION BY TIIS COUllT 

Questions by Maj . MacLennan: 

Q, Prom the Italian area over the route you described, going 
over Lawton Road and down to Missouri Avenue, and down 
that road indicated, how far would you estimate that 
distance would be to the cable tree? 

A If I can find the scale on the nap I could give it to you 
pretty close. I believe we can find it. 

Defense: May I have that question again? 

Law Member: He said down Lawton Road and over Main, I 
believe it y;ould be> yes, over Main Street up to Missouri, 
and then up Missouri to the place where the cable was attached 
to the tree. 

Defense: Thank you. 

A (continuing) 3900 feet. That is pretty close to two- 
thirds or tliree-quarters of a mile. 

Q And that is all fairly good road as you describe until 
you leave West Utah and start across Missouri? 

A Yes, sir. It is all under use all the tine. 

President: Any further questions? The Court has 
expressed a desire that you make some further measurements 
for the Court and bring then to the Court tonorrov; morning. 
And v/ill 10:30 tomorrow morning be convenient? 

The Witness: Yen, sir, for everything except those maps, 
making blueprints or copies of those. 

President: Well, the maps can be brought in later. 

737 



Tho Witnoss: Yos, sir, 10:30 will bo oonveniont. 

President: The TJitaoss will be sxoused then. 

Defense: May I c.sk one further question? 

RECROSS EXiUVUNiiTIGN 

Q,uostions by Defense: 

ti Major, hov; much difficulty, or ho?; much notice would 
you have to hrvo in order to extinr^uish the lights 
vjhich have since been installed, extinguish the lights 
throuj-:hout the Italian area do'vn there so that they 
would be ?.s of the nifjht of Au^^ust 14th, .-Jid so that 
the Court in case they should vent to visit there will 
see it as it yas during th^ ni,:ht of August 14, 1944? 

A Oh, tun minutes, in my office. 

Q, That would tcJ£o care of the street lights overhead? 

A At my office, end if I c^ot your reqiaest, I could get all 
the lights out in that time. 

Law Momber: That is all the lights out that were not 
there on thu 14th of Au.gist, do you understand? 

The Witnoss: Yes, 

Defense: ^o furthur questions. 

President: Any further questions? The v/itness v;ill be 
excused. 

Law Member: I wonder if you two gentlemen, in view of 
a question that was asked, if you would stipulate on the dates 
of Exhibits 28 to 31, those four pictures? 

Defense: If the Colonel will tell me , I will bo glad to 
stipulate. 

Trial Judge Advocate: It appears right here on the 
pictures. If you would be willing to, — tho date indicated 
on the photographs, and which is all right with counsel, is 
the 7th of November, 1944. 

President: That is all„ 

Witness excused. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Will the Court excuse me for just 
one minute. I will get tho next r/itness. 

President: Court will take a brief recess. Remain 
seated. 

(A short recess was taken and proceedings resumed as follows;) 

738 



k. 



President: Court will come to order, 

Maj. Wllllfim VY. Orem, Command Group, a witness for the 
Prosecution, was sworn and testified as follows: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q State your name, please? 

A William W Orem (spelling), 

Q Your rank, please? 

A Major, TC 

Q What is your assignment? 

A Officer of the Command Group, 

Q And what v;as your assignment on August the 15th, 1944? 

A Provost Marshall, Port Lawton. 

Q Your station then v/as Port Lawton? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q, And your station today is Port Lawton? 

A Yes, sir. ' 

Q Major, will you state whether or not anything of an un- 
usual nature was called to your attention on the morning 
of August 15, 1944? 

A The unusual thing which was brought to my attention on 

August 15, 1944 was, there was reported to me that a body 
was hanging from a rope down in the woods near the beach. 

Q After that was reported to you, Major, state whether or 

not you proceeded to the point where the body was supposed 
to be hanging? 

A I got into the jeep at once. Proceeded to the point 
where this body was hanging, 

Q Did you or not find a body hanging there after you arrived 
at that point? 

A I did, sir. 

Q Do you recall who was present, let us get this, first. 

In what manner was this reported to you, who reported it? 

A Sergeant Robinson of the M.P. Detachment came to me at 
the Orderly Room. 

Q, All right, Nov/, who accompanied you when you proceeded 

739 



to that point? 

A Sergeant Robinson, 

Q Major, after you got there, v/hat did you see v/ith respect 
to that raattor? 

A I saw a body hanging by a rope from a cable on the 
obstacle course, 

Q All right. What is your recollection as to hov that body 
was attired v/ith respect to the nature of the clothing 
that was worn? 

A The body had a shirt and a pair of shorts visible, 

Q Did you observe anything v/lth respect to whether or 
not shoes wore worn? 

A Yes, sir; shoes v/ore not worn, 

Q Now, Major, at that tino did you make an inspection of 
the ground directly underneath the body? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q By the way, v/hile we arc talking about the body, was the 

man who v/as hanging there, was it a man, let me ask 

you that question? 

A It v/as a man, yes, sir* 

Q Vtfas he dead or alive? 

A He was dead, to the best of my knowledge, 

Q Did you sec any signs of life at all? 

A None, sir, 

Q, Nov;, you say you inspected the ground underneath the 
body? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q Nov/, I v/ish you woiild tell the Court v/hc.ther or not you 
inspected the ground for the purpose of finding any 
footprints or shoe prints? 

A I did. I v/as looking for all kinds of clu.es, anything 
that might be around, 

Q All right. State v/hcther or not you found any bare 
footprints? 

A I didn't see any, no, sir, 

740 



r 



Q Did you or not make a cIogg Inspection? 

A Yos, sir, as close as ■ I could v/lthout a glass or, 

It was a coraparativoly hurried Inspection though. 

Q Did jou or not find an^ shoe-prints? 

A Yes, sir; I did, 

Q Now, I will ask you to look at Prosecution's Exhibit 

28 and please step up here to the Board, stand In front 
of the Court. Major, would you mind coming up here, 
please? Now, turn around and describe to the Court as 
accurately as you can v/hlch way the footprints were 
facing, 

A The footprints were facing right out this way, right 
behind these weeds this side of the tree, facing out 
that way (indicating), 

Q Toward the body? 

A Yes, sir- toward the body, 

Q Which v/ay were the toes of the footprints pointing? 

A Thoy weru pointing tov/ards the body. 

Q, Now, with respect to v;h>jther those footprints, v;ell, 

I will ask you, can you tell us more about them, were 
thoy shoi... prints? 

A They were shoo prints, yes, sir, 

Q Nov;, Vi/ith respect to the distance that those shoo prints 
v/erc apart, toll the Court v/hat was the fact? 

A I think I can demonstrate a little better. They were 
approximately like that (indicating). 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right. 

President: Will you stand back a little bit so we can 
sec you better? 

The Witness: I would say thoy wer-. just about like that, 
close together. They were not far apart, , 

Trial Judge Advocate: Nov/, let us measure the heels, 
from edge to edge, 

(Measuring distance). 

Trial Judge Advocate: About two inches apart on the Inside. 
Nov;, let us measure the toes. 

Captain Branand: From center to center, about eight inches 

741 



Q Nov/, v/lth respoct to the depth of those tv^fo shoo 
prints, what are the facts? 

A Of course, they wore not very deep because there was, 

Defense (interposing): Now, if the Court please, I 
submit the question has been answered. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let us achieve the full facts. 

Defense: You didn't ask him v/hy. You just asked 
him v/hat the facts v/ere. 

Law Member: He asked for the depth and he said they 
wore not very deep. Is that the answer? 

The Witness: Yes, sir, that Is the answer* 

Q Nov/, give the Court as full a description as you can 
as to what those footprints looked like, and v/hat v/as 
underneath them, and v/hat the terrain v/as like. Let us 
have the full facts, 

A Those footprints were very easily discernible, all 

around the heels and toes. They v/crc deep enough so 
that you v/ouldn't miss seeing them. The terrain was 
such as a little dry dirt and a few leaves and pieces 
of sticks, perhaps a stick or two, and that sort of 
thing. It was not straight ground, 

Q Nov/, state v/hether or not it v/as muddy there. 

A Not at that particular place. It v/as damp but not 
muddy. 

Q And to v/hat extent v/erc there leaves there. You mentioned 
leaves. Now, to what extent wore those leaves in those 
footprints, shoe prints? 

A I can't ansv/er that question. 

Q I see. All right. Now, did you attempt to make a cast 
of those shoe prints? 

A I did not, sir, 

Q, Did you attempt to preserve them in some v/ay? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q What did you do? 

A I found a piece of cardboard v/hlch v/as a little larger 
than that (indicating). 

Q Than v/hat you have shov/n in Prosecution Exhibit 28, Is 
that it? 

A Yes, It v/as large enough to cover the footprints v/ell, 

742 



I put this piece of cardboard over the footprints, 

Q And th^n v/hat further effort did you make after that? 

A I told the guard not to let anyone touch it or nove It, 

Q, Then v;hat efforts did you make to presGrvc thorn? 

A I asked my investigator. Sergeant Johnson, v;ho has 
had some experience, if he cotild not make a cast of 
thorn, and he said, 

Defense (Interposing): Now, If the Court please, I 
am going to object to that. That is hearsay. 

Lav/ Member: Yes, that is hearsay, 

Q All right. If it is hearsay* Was or r/as not a cast 
made? 

A No, sir. 

Law Member: V/liat? 

The Witness: No, sir, 

Q Vftiy not? 

A Because the ground would not permit it. The formation 
of that particular ground v/ouldn't permit it, 

Q V/ell, what was there in connection with the formation of 
that ground that would not permit it? 

A Well, those leaves and sticks and the soft or crumbly dirt, 

Q, All right. Will you have a seat, please? Did you ob- 
serve th^; condition of the legs and the foot of the body? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q State what yo\\ observed v/lth respect to the legs? 

A The legs were scratched and had dirt on them, 

Q Thoy were scra.tched and had dirt on them? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q V/hat v/as the condition of the feet? 

A The feet had dirt on thom, 

Q The feet had dirt on them also? 

A Yes, sir, 

■745 



Q All right. Now, Major, was or not that body taken down? 

A Yes, sir, the body was taken down. 

Q Who took It down? 

A I don't know, 

^ Do you know what disposition was made of the body; I 
mean what was done with It? 

A It had be^n taken down and was put in the ambulance. 
I saw that, 

Q Now, do you know whether or not anyone while you were present, 
made an effort to release the rope from the cable? 

A Not while I was present. 

Q Major, do you know Sergeant Callahan? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Did you know him on or about August 14, 1944? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Did he at any time turn over to you a dog tag? 

A Yes, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right. The Prosecution has no 
further questions, if it please the Court, 

CROSS EXAMINATION 
Questions by Defense: 

(^ Major, when did it first come to your attention that there 
had been something out of the ordinary happen in the 
Italian area on the evening of August 14th? 

A Approximately, well, a little after 12:00 o'clock, 

Q That would be early in the morning of August 15th? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Where were you at that time? 

A At home . 

Q Did you immediately go to the Italian area? 

A Yes, sir. 

744 



Q About v/hat time did you arrive there? 

A Approximately 12:30, in that neighborhood. 

Q About 12:30? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q And the difficulty was' all over with, v/as it not, about 
that time v;hen you got there? 

A Yes, sir. There v;as no more fighting. 

Q What did you do then after you arrived? 

A I inspected the area to see that the guards were posted* 
Nov/, wait a minute; do you v/ant me to start from the be- 
ginning and go into detail? 

Q Yes. 

A Well, when I arrived I stopped first at the guardhouse, 
and there I met the officer of the day, and the officer 
of the day reiterated Virhat he had told me over the 
phone, that there was a riot, and that the colored 

soldiers had gone into the Italian area. 

Q Well, you don't need to relate all of what the conversa- 
tion was . 

A I instructed the Corporal to call up Captain Carter, and 
then I proceeded down to the Italian area where I 
met Sergeant Callahan and I inspected the place to see 
that the guards were properly posted and then went into 
the orderly room and asked how many v;ere hurt and they 
said there were, 



Law Member (interposing): Just a moment. That is hear- 



say. 



Trial Judge Advocate: It looks like it is all hearsay 
to me. It couldn't be otherwise. 

Lav/ Member: Well, he inspected the guard and he went to 
the orderly room. Nov/, don't relate any conversations. Major, 

A (continuing) Yes, sir. Well, I looked over that sit- 
uation, and then I went to the colored barracks with 
Sergeant Callahan and, there were one or two others v/ith 
me, but I wont't say, 

Q (interposing) Well, about #i at time was it v/hen you 
got to the colored barracks? 

A I would say approximately about ten minutes to one. 

Q Did you cause a bed check to be made at that time? 

745 



A No, sir. 

Q Did you converse with the Company officers about the 
matter? 

A I couldn't find the Company officers i 

Q You couldn't find the Company officers? 

A No, sir* 

Q, Not of either Company? 

A No, sir, 

Q Did you subsequently find them? 

A No, sir, not until early in the morning, 

Q That is the morning of August 15th? 

A Yes, The first time I tlaked to one of the Company 

officers v/as approximately something after four o'clock, 
August the 15th. 

Q V/here did you see him? 

A I talked with him on the phone. 

Q, Who did you talk Y/ith? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Nov/, if the Court please, I don't 
know Vi'hat this has got to do v/ith the Issues of this case. 

Law Member: He says, or I presume he is leading up to 
something. 

Trial Judge Advocate: If it is material, all right. 

A (continuing) To the best of my knowledge it v/as 
Lt Veeder. 

Q ViDiat attempts had you made to find the Company officers? 

A Vi/hen I stopped at the guardhouse, as I told you, I told 
the Corporal of the guard to get ahold of or to make 
every possible effort to find them over the phone, 

Q, You were not successful in getting in touch v/lth any 
of them until four o'clock In the morning? 

A That's right. 

Q Vi/here did you locate them, or where did they locate you? 

A They called me, somebody got in touch v/ith them, and 
Lt Veeder called me, 

Q All right. After that what did you do, Major, 

746 



A I v/ent through the Barracks. All those that had lights 
in them and I believe it v/as all of them. I told the 
men to get into hed and to stay there, and turn out the 
lights. And I tried to get the First Sergeants, when 
I couldn't find the officers, they were in bed. I routed 
them out and told them to get the men in bed. Immediate- 
ly after that Captain Carter joined me and went to a 
telephone and called the Commanding Officer, relating 
everything I had done and what had taken place up to 
that time, 

Q Now, v.hat time was it first called to your attention 
that this man v/as hanged down there on the obstacle 
course? 

A At approximately 6:30 on the 15th of August* 

Q, Wlio v/as it reported that to you? 

A Sergeant Robinson, 

Q And did you immediately proceed there yourself? 

A Immediately, yes, sir, 

Q By v/hat route did you go down? 

A Well, I got in the jeep v/ith Sergeant Robinson, he drove 
mo. 

Q, You went down by vehicle? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, And walked up to the place? 

A Yes, sir. Vi/ent dov/n to the beach and walked up the hill. 

Q, You did not go down from the Italian Service Club down 
the hill? 

A No, sir. 

Q, And after you first arrived on the scene, Major, did jou 
leave and go av/ay and then come back, or did you stay 
around there all the time? 

A No, sir. I made a hurried investigation around the 

scene. I told Sergeant Callahan to get in touch with 
a doctor and ambulance immediately, and I posted an 
M.P. and got in a jeep and went directly to the 
Commanding Officer's home. 

Q Was It before you went to the Commanding Officer's homo 
that you made a check for footprints? 

A Yes, sir. Both, as a matter of fact. But it was a 

747 



Taurried check before. That is v/hon I found the foot- 
prints, before. 

Q Nov/, I have not got those footprints straight in my 
mind yet. I vi/lsh you would explain a gain v/here you 
saw them and how you saw them. 

A Yes, sir, 

Q, Novif, this is Prosecution Exhibit 31 that you have now. 
Let us mark that on the photograph here. Counsel, 
v/ould you v;atch here? Now, put a double X, will you, 
at the point where you found footprints? 

Trial Judge Advocate: This is the picture that gives 
it from opposite sides. 

Defense: It is the picture he asked for. Counsel, 

Trial Judge Advocate: V/ell, it is not the one we used 
awhile a go. Let us be fair to him and let him look it over, 
look over all the photographs. 

Q Well, suppose you pick the one out that you would rather 
have him mark it on. 

A I just marked the spot on this one, and by reason of 
this little rise (indicating) right here, v/ell, It is 
just over this little rise, 

Q You say you cannot mark it on Prosecution Exhibit 28? 

A Yes. 

Q This is the one counsel was referring to a moment 
ago? 

A Yes. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Nov/, look at these other photo- 
graphs. All right, mark it. 

Defense: Now, v/ould you like to go back to yotir, 

Trial Judge Advocate (interposing): It is marked on 
Prosecution Exhibit 30. 

Defense: Would you like to go back to the original 
exhibit you asked for yourself, Prosecution Exhibit 31, and 
mark it yourself there? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I v/ant him to see all of them. 

Defense: Yes. I handed all of them to him, counsel, 
and you shov/ him just the ones you want him to see, I am 
perfectly willing to have you do it. 

Trial Judge Advocate: V/e are just interested in the 

748 



one he testified about. 

Law Member: You are certainly filling up the record, 
gentlemen, with a lot of things that have nothing whatsoever 
to do with these issues. 

Q, Is this the one; you are referring to Prosecution 
Exhibit 29? 

A I can't mark it by reason of the fact that the man 
is standing right in front of where the footprints 
v/ere. 

Trial Judge Advocate: You might hold this one. This 
is the one that he marked, 

A (continuing) Approximately, underneath the cable, on 
that side of the tree (indicating). 

Q, All right. Major. Now, will you sit down again. 

Trial Judge Advocate: You can mark that one if you 
want t o . 

The Witness: No, I can't. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right. This is the four 
photographs. 

Q How much of an area there did you make a search for 

footprints in around the tree, that Is from the tree, 
how much of an area? 

A Perhaps, ten, twelve, fifteen feet, approximately east, 
and where it came up the hill, I would say an area of 
about six or seven feet wide. And on each side north 
and south of the tree to the gully, and to v/here the bank 
starts up. You see, it wasn't a large area, 

Q, Well, in area, then, about what would it be, what would 
it be, the dimensions of the area that you examined? 

A Perhaps a couple hundred square feet. 

Q And how many footprints did you find in that area? 

A Two. 

Q You found two footprints In that entire area? 

A That were readily discernible and that I thought had any 
significance, 

Q Now, you say that type of ground was not readily 
acceptible to making casts? 

A That is v\fhat I v/as told, 

749 



F 



Q Do you know what typo of ground does lend itself to 
making casts? 

A No, sir. 

Q Did you make measurements of the footprints? 

A No, sir, I did not. 

Q There was nothing about the ground that would prevent 
you from making measurements, was there? 

A No. 

Q Nov/, as a matter of fact, this is an obstacle course down 
there for a good many men that go through there all the 
time, don't they? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, just a moment, I, 

A (interposing) It is an obstacle course and they some- 
times go through there, yes, 

Q And part of the training in the obstacle course is for 

the men going through it, it is to climb up on the ladder 
shown on Prosecution Exhibit 28? 

A I have never seen them go through that obstacle course, 

Q You have not seen them go through there? 

A No, sir. 

Q You wouldn't have any idea of the process then? 

A I would assume it is a ladder for them to walk on, 
but I have never seen them. 

Q Did you look at the body any at all for bruises? 

A No, sir, I did not. 

Q As far as you know there v;eren't any bruises on the 

body, you don't know whether there v;ere any bruises 

on the body or whether there were not yourself? 

A No, sir, I don't. 

Q Did you examine the manner in which the rope was tied 
to the cable, by which the deceased was hanging? 

A No, sir: I cannot describe that. 

Q You didn't examine that? 

A No, sir, 

Q Hov/ much rope was he hanging by, Major, do you know; in 

750 



F 


•' 


other words, from the nock to the cable, hov; much rope 
was there? 




A 


1 would estimate it was a foot approximately, perhaps, 
a couple of inches more. 

Law Member: What was that ansv^er? 




some 


The Witness: A foot, perhaps a couple of inches more, 
thing like that. 




Q 


A pair of shoes were not found that night or that day 
any place around the obstacle course there, was there? 




A 


I knew nothing of shoes being found that day. 




Q 


Well, wore shoes found later? ; • ■ 




A 


I was told so. 




Q 


You don't have any Icnowlodgo of it yourself? 




A 


No, sir, not myself. 




Q 


That vms a pair of regulation G-1 shoes? 




Trial Judge Advocate* Well, you better not get into 
hearsay, if he knows nothing about it himself of his own 
knowledge. Major* 




Q 


Did you see the shoes that were claimed to have been 
found? 




A 


No, sir, I don't recall seeing them, no* 
Defense: I have nothing further, 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 




Quos 


tions by Law Member: - ' ' 




Q 

ther 


Did you observe the condition of the body when you got 
e at 6:30 o'clock in the morning? 




A 


Only for general appearance. 




Q 


Were you there v/hen it was lifted down from the rope? 




A 


No, sir. ■ 




Q 


Did you notice whether it was stiff by appearance? 




A 


Only by appearance, it appeared stiff. 




Q 


And to the best of your knowledge that was about 6; 30 
in the morning of the 15th of August? 




A 


Yes, sir. The reason I know it v;as about then was be- 


e 




751 



cause when I was going into the Commander's home, the 
Commanding Officer's house, or coming out, I associated 
the 7:00 o'clock whistle with my being at the 
Commanding Officer's house. ^ 

President: Are there any furthei? questions? That is 
all, Major. You will be excused. 

Witness excused. 

Trial Judge Advocate: It is now 4:20, it is please the 
Court. 

Defense: I will join in his motion. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, there isn't any motion, 
Major. 

President: Court will recess and reconvene at 9:00 
o'clock tomorrow morning. 

(Whereupon, the Court then, at 4: SO, p.m., on November 

28, 1944, adjourned to meet at 9:00 o'clock, a.m., November 

29, 1944.) 

752 



Fort Lawton Staging 
Fort Lawton, Washington 
November 29, 1944 

The Court met, pursuant to adjournment, at 9:00 o'clock 
a.m., all of the personnell of the Court, Prosecution, and 
Defense, who were present at the close of the previous 
session in this case, being present. 

President: Prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Defense ready? 

Defense: Defense is ready, sir. 

President: Court will come to order; 

The roll of the accused was called by the Assistant 
Trial Judge Advocate, all being present. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record show that each of 
the accused is present, and that all members of the Court are 
present, and the personnel representing the accused, the 
personnel representing the Prosecution, are also present 
today. Is the Court ready for the first witness? Major, 
will you take the stand. 

Maj. Robert H Manchester, TC, Intelligence and Securi- 
ties Division, Seattle Port of Embarkation, a witness for 
the Prosecution, was sworn and testified as follows: 

DIRECT EXAIUNATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate! . " 

Q, State your name and your rank, your assignment, and your 
station, please. 

A Robert H Manchester, Major, TC, 0471762, Executive Offi- 
cer of the Intelligence and Securities Division, Seattle 
Port of Embarkation. 

Q, Major Manchester, I will ask you whether or not the 

assignment that you have Just mentioned was filled by 
you also during the months of August, September, and 
October, 1944? 

A It was. 

Q Do you recall the incident that occurred on the evening 
of August 14, 1944, when some negro soldiers entered 
the Italian area at Fort Lawton? 

A I recall hearing of it and receiving a report on it on 

753 



the night or afternoon of the 15th of August, 19^-4. • 

Q Did you or not thereafter participate in any investigations 
that were made in connection with that affair? 

A I did. 

Q During the course of such investigation, I will ask 
you whether or not you had occasion to talk with the 
accused, Nathaniel Spencer? 

A I did. To continue the answer to that, I talked with 
the accused, Nathaniel Spencer, on the second day of 
November, 1944. 

Q November second, 1944? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Do you know whether or not Nathaniel Spencer was stationed 
here or elsewhere prior to that time? 

A Prior, he had been in an overseas destination. 

Q Do you remember about when, prior to November 2, 1944, 
he was returned? 

A He was returned on the morning of November 2, 1944. 

Q Now, in the course of that conversation with the accused, 
Nathaniel Spencer, I will ask you whether or not you 
gave him any warning? 

A I did. 

Q And what warning did you give him. Major Manchester? 

A My conversation with Nathaniel Spencer, together with 

three other accused, was held, in connection with AW70 trial 
investigation. At that time I read the charges and 
the specifications to Nathaniel Spencer and the other 
enlisted men who were accused, and told them that they 
did not have to make a statement unless they so desired, 
and if they did make a statement, it would be used 
against them, or could be used against them. Anything 
they said would be free and voluntary* Nathaniel 
Spencer stated that he had nothing to say as he had 
been down into the Italian area. I told Nathaniel 
Spencer, together with the other accused, 

Defense (interposing): If the Court please, I think the 
answer of the witness is novj becoming unresponsive to the 
question. He was asked what warning he gave. 

Q All right. Major. Thank ycu. We will stop right 

there and proceeding after that, what was said, after 
you said that, did or not Nathaniel Spencer, the accused 
man make any statement to you? 

754 



Defense: Now, if the Court please, I object unless it 
is determined who this accused was. 

Q, All right. Major, at the time these negro soldiers 
were in your presence, did you call out their names? 

A Yes, sir, I did. I askad them for their names and they 
replied by name. 

Q, And when you called the name of any one person did some 
person speak up? 

A Yes, sir. A colored soldier, who identified himself as 
Nathaniel Spencer spoke up. 

Q, Now, Major, did he or not make a statement to you on 
that occasion? 

A He did. 

Q, I will ask you v^fhether or not that statement was taken 

down by a stenographer, or was it a statement in his own 
handwriting? 

A A statement in his own handwriting. 

Q I will ask you to look at this instrument that I am 

asking to bo identified as Prosecution Exhibit 33, for 
identification. 

The document referred to was marked Prosecution Exhibit 
33 for identification. 

Q, And I will ask you whether or not this is the statement 
that you referred to. I will show it to you. 

A (Perusing sane.) Yes, sir; it is. 

Q, Did you in any way make an identifying mark on that 
statement so as to help you recognize it? 

A Yes, I placed ray three initials in the upper right-hand 
corner to identify it. 

Q And these are your initials, RHM? 

A They are. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Now, if it please the Court, 
I offer this Exhibit 33 in evidence with the understanding 
it is offered only against the accused, Nathaniel Spencer, 
and not any other accused. There are mentioned in this state- 
ment one or two or three other persons, and I have prepared 
a photostat copy of this statement in such a way to where 
the names mentioned of others are blocked out, are not dis- 
cernible and cannot be seen. I am going to ask permission of 
the Court to substitute that. It is a photostatic copy. 

755 



Defense : This is the first time I have seen these. 

Law Member: Take your time, Major. 

Defense: May I see the photostat copies at this time? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yos, you surely may (handing same 
to Defense) . 

Defense; lo you mind if I ask the witness a question? 

Law Member- Kow, Major, I want to say that you are 
free at this time to ask any preliminary questions pertaining 
to whether or not this alleged statement of Nathaniel Spencer 
is voluntary. The procedure of furnishing a copy of this 
alleged statement v;ith the names of other accused blocked 
out is approved practice and the Court feels that they do^ 
not want to see the original which has those other names in, 
so I would like to have you make a comparison of the original 
which is in the handwriting of Nathaniel Spencer and the 
photostat cooy. with the names deleted, and then state for the 
record that it is a true copy, if it is. 

Defense; I will be glad to follow that procedure, if 
the Court please 4 

Law Member: And you are at liberty at this time to 
ask any questions pertaining to that statement that you desire. 

Defense; Thank you.. Major Manchester, have you re- 
lated all the conversation that you had with Nathaniel 
Spencer? 

The Witness: No, sir; I have not. 

Defenses Will you give us the rest of the conversa- 
tion you had with him. I am speaking now of your preliminary 
conversation before he made a statement of any kind« 

The Witness: I understand. At the time I had the 
conversation with N&thaiiel ;:5pencer, I read him the Charges 
and specifications, I read Charge 1, end Specification 1, 
and told him that 1.",- wao named in that Charge and Specifica- 
tion. I also told him that there was a Charge 2, and a 
Specification 2, and which was a charge of murder, and told 
him he was not charged in that, and he said he felt very 
relieved. He said he understood they were coming back 
charged with murder, Because at that time Nathaniel Spencer 
said he was down in the Italian area. 

Defense: Didn't you tell him about the same time, 
too, Major, that you h'jd evidence that ho was down in that 
Italian area? - 

The Witness: Absolut f.ly, bene us J 1 did have evidence 
he was there. 

'756 



Defense: Well, just a moment. Didn't you also tell 
him that it would be better for his own good if he admitted 
that? 

The Witness; The words "better for your own good" 
were never used. 

Defense. To that defendant? 

The Witness: Or any other defendants. 

Defense; Didn't you tell him at that time before you got 
his statement, or he gave you his statement, that any words 
indicative of the fact that he would be better off to make 
any statement? 

The Witness: I believe I just answered that. I did 
not use that phrase or any other to that defendant or any 
other defendants. 

Defense: Did you use any language of any kind by way 
of inducement to him to make the statement? 

The Witness: No, sir. If you want to term it, to 
use it as an inducement, I told the defendant, as I did other 
defendants, and I had talked with many others, I have talked 
with many others in this case and they had nothing to fear, 
or I would promise nothing, and they could suit themselves, 
but if they did care to make a statement, I couldn't remeinber 
all of their own statements, and if they would care to write 
it down for me it would be used in this court when it came 
up. 

Defense. You were anxious to obtain a statement, weren't 
you. Major? 

The Witness: Yes, of course, I wasr- 

Defense; V/ho was with you? 

The Witness. Col. Jaworski and Captain Branand.- 

Defense: Have you offered the exhibit? 

Trial Judge Advocate. Yes, I have made the offer. 

Defense: The Defense objects to it, if the Court please, 
because on the statement itself there are other facts and 
circumstances mentioned in the statement relating to other 
people and in connection with other than the accused himself. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Of course the Court understands 
that the names of all those other people are being blocked 
out. 

Defense: I mean even with the names of the others 
blocked out, there are still references. 



Trial Judge Advocate: Those names are completely 
obliterated. However, I have authority to support that, 
that the statement as a whole is admissible. 

Law Member: Well, there isn't any question on that 
point. 

Defense: Well, I mean, my point is this. There are 
circumstances and facts which can be just as identifying or 
prejudicial to the rights of others as the use of a name. 

Law Member: The Law Member would like to see the 
photostat copy jof the proposed exhibit. 

Defense: There is a typewritten copy, I have no ob- 
jection to the Court seeing that. 

Law Member: Let it appear for the record that the Law 
Member only is looking at the proposed exhibit, (Perusing 
document.) I say to the members of the Court, that in view 
of the fact that this statement was made by the accused to 
his Superior Officer that you have the right to make any 
further inquiry of this witness or any other witness on the 
question of whether or not this statement is a voluntary act 
of the accused or not. Do any members of the Court wish to ask 
any questions of this witness? 

President: I should like to ask a question. Major 
Manchester, did you at any time threaten the accused with 
anythi.n2 if he did not make a statement. 

The Witness: No, sir, I did not, 

President: I believe you testified that you told him 
he did not have to make one if ho did not want to. 

The Witness: Yes, that's right. 

President: He was told that before he made the statement? 

The Witness: Yes, sir. 

Law Member 1 Did you make known to him that you were the 
investigating officer pursuant to the Articles of War? 

The Witness: Yes, sir, I did. 

Law Member: Did you at any time promise any benefit for 
the accused if he made that statement? 

The Witness: I did not. 

Defense: Did anyone else make any such promise before 
he was brought in and made a statement? 

The V\fitness: No, sir. 

Law Member: Was there anything about the conduct or re- 

758 



b 



marks made by the Trial Judge Advocate or his assistant, 
or yourself, to imply to the accused that he was to receive 
any benefit for his signing this statement? 

The Witness: No, sir; the only remarks that were made 
was by myself and the accused. The Trial Judge Advocate nor 
his assistant, neither one, made any statement. They were 
merely present in the room and made no comment. 

Law Member: At this time, Major, have you any evidence 
for the purpose of bringing the accused on the stand, solely 
it is understood to testify to the issue of making a volun- 
tary statement. If he does, it will be solely on that issue, 
you understand. 

Defense: I would muoh prefer not putting the accused 
on the stand at this time, I would much prefer the Court 
defer its ruling as to the admissibility of it. 

Law Member: Well, now is the time to raise that 
Issua, Major* . 

Defense: I am in this position, if the Court please. 
This has been a lengthy trial here, and I have only had the 
opportunity of talking with these men on one occasion, 
which was some while ago. If the Court wants that issue 
raised, I would like to have the privilege of talking to the 
individuals as these matters come up, in private, for a few 
moments. 

Law Member: Subject to an objection by any member of 
the Court, permission is granted you now to take Nathaniel 
Spencer outside the court room and talk to him in private* 

Defense: And it is understood that they desire to 
testify for the sole and exclusive purpose of testifying in 
regard to these statements? 

Law Member: Yes, sir; of course, there is no question 
about that. 

President: The Court will take a recess, 

(Whereupon, a short recess was taken,) 

President: I think you still have that other accused 
out of the room. Wait until all the accused are present, 

(Accused that had permission to be taken from the 
room return. ) 

President: Now, is the Prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Is the defense ready to proceed? 

Defense: Ready, sir, 

759 



President: Court will come to order. ^^ 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record show that all 
of the accused are present, that all members of the Court 
are present as well as the personnel representing the 
accused and the personnel representing the prosecution. 

Defense: Now, it is fully understood, if the Court 
please, if I understand the situation at this time, this 
witness takes the stand to testify with respect to circum- 
stances under which Prosecution Exhibit 33 was made, and 
that he thereby waives no right which he has in this case 
to take the stand la tar and to submit a sworn or unsworn 
statement, or refuse to takd the stand and make a sworn or 
unsworn statement, whichever he prefers. 

Law Members: You are absolutely correct. The only 
purpose for the witness taking the stand is for the purpose 
of determining whether a voluntary statement was taken from 
the accused. There will be no other questions and answers 
taken from the witness or asked of him on any other issue. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I think bufore the accused takes 
the stand the Court ought to explain to him his rights, 
to be sure he definitely understands his rights. 

Uw Mem.bor: I will be glad to do that. Nathaniel 
Spencer, will you step up here? 

(Accused, Nathaniel Spencer, stands before the Court.) 

Law Member: Nathaniel Spencer, in any Army Court Martial, 
an accused has curtain rights as a witness. He may be 
sworn as e witness and his evidence then is just like the 
evidence of any other witness. He is subject to cross- 
examination by the Trial Judge Advocate, and by the members 
of the Court. Another right that the witness has is, ho 
may make an unsworn statement, either by himself or through 
his attorney. If he elects to make such an unsworn state- 
ment, he is not subject to cross-examination by anyonei It 
is not strictly speaking evidence, but the members of _ the 
Court may give that unsworn statement such consideration as 
the members consider that it is entitled to. The third 
right an accused has in a Military Court Martial is to re- 
main absolutely silent, making no statement whatever, either 
sworn or unsworn, in which event, the fact that he does re- 
main silent cannot be considered by any member of the court 
as a detriment to him. The fact that ho did not take the 
stand and remained silent is not considered by any member 
of the Court in arriving at guilt or innocence of the 
accused. In the instant case, at the present time, an 
issue has arisen as to whether or not you voluntarily 
signed a statement which has been proposed as Prosecution 
Exhibit number 33. You have a right on that issue to be 
sworn as a witness. That does not take away from you the 
prior rights which I have enumerated to you. In other 
words, if you now take the stand as a witness on this 
statement, this sole issue, you can be cross-examined by 

760 



the Trial Judge Advocate and by the membors of the court 
only on matters pertaining to whether or not you voluntarily 
signed that statement. No other questions can be asked of 
you. 

Now, Spencer, do you thoroughly understand what I have 
said to you, or do you want me to say something else? 

Nathaniel Spencer: I understand, sir. 

Law Member: What do ycc. elect to do; do you want to 
take the stand and be sworn as a witness on the issue of 
whether or not you voluntarily signed this statement, or 
don't you? 

Nathaniel Spencer: Yes, sir. 

Law Member; All right. Raise your right hand and be 
sworn. 

T/5 Nathaniel Spencer, 650th Port Company, a witness 
for the defense, was sworn and testified as follows: 

Trial Judge Advocate, State your grade, your name, 
your organization, and your station. 

The Witness: Nathaniel Spencer. 

Trial Judge Advocate: What is your grade? 

The Witness: T/5. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Your organization? 

The Witness: 650th Port Company. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Your station? ' . . , 

The Witness: V\[ell, Fort Lawton, Vfcshington. 

Trial Judge Advocate: You are one of the accused in 
this case? 

The Witness: Yes, sir. 

DIRECT ui>LAMINATION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q, Now, Corporal Spencer, tell the Court whether or not 

you wore in Maj. Manchester's office during the day of 
November 2, 19 4 V^ 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Do you recall the approximate time of day? 

A Around ten o'clock in the morning. 

761 



Q About ten o'clock in the morning. Who was In the room 
at the same time you were? 

A Well, I think there was Ma j . Manchester, Captain, I 

can't say his name. 

Q, Branand? 

A Branand, And a Colonel, Col, Jaworskl, 

Q Col. Jaworski? 

A And Fred Umblance. 

Q, Now, I want you to tell the Court the conversation that 
you had with Maj, Manchester prior to the time that you 
signed the statement which is prosecution Exhibit 33 
for identification. Before you do that I want you to 
confine your answer solely to the conversation that you 
had with MaJ, Manchester prior to your signing that 
statement, 

A Well, he said that the reason I was brought from overseas 
was because he had evidence of somebody, had said they 
had saw me in the Italian area* He said that he was 
neither for me or against me and he said, we started 
telling what it was our story, and he said, well, 
write it, and he said, no, first, if you say you was 
not down there and if the Court found out you was down 
there, if the Court finds you was down there, it would 
be much harder against you} then I signed my statement. 

Defense: You may examine, 

CROSS-EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Is your recollection very clear as to who was in that 
room at the time you were examined and talked with 
by Maj, Manchester? 

A Well, three, three of you I know,' 

Q, And you said three of us and Freddie Umblance was 
present? 

A Well, I don't know whether he was there then, but I 

know he had been there. He was there, 

Q, Was that all that were there? 

A Well, some was held out. There was five of us there 
and three went out, 

Q, And about the time you made your statement to Maj. 

Manchester there were five of you negro soldiers in that 
room? 

762 



Defense: Which conversation are you talking about now? 

Q, Before you made your written statement, didn't you mates 
an oral statement to Maj. Manchester? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, And there were about five negro soldiers present when 
you made that oral statement, isn't that correct? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q And then you v;ent out and wrote in your own handwriting 
exactly the same thing you told Maj. Manchester? 

A Yes, but the writing, —that is, you see, when I heard 
that statement and after I was told it couldn't be 
remembered, what every soldier said, that it would be 
better to write it, and it would be better for you. 

Q All right. Now, didn't you go out and write in your own 
handwriting exactly the same thing that you had told 
Maj. Manchester first orally? 

A Well, yes, sir. 

Q All right. Now let us think carefully for just a moment, 
as to what transpired that day when those five colored 
soldiers were sitting there with you and isn't it true 
that the first thing that Maj* Manchester did was, he 
told you your rights under the 2i!Hth Article of War; he told 

■'. . you that anything you said would be made of your own 
free will and could be held against you? 

Defense: I think there are two questions in one? 

Witness: Would you repeat that again? 

Q, Yes. Didn't Maj. Manchester tell you at the very be- 
ginning that you would not have to make any statement 
of any kind if you did not want to, and anything you 
would make could be held against you? 

A Yes. 

Q, And didn't he tell you he was the investigating officer 
under the Article of 1/Var 70 authorized to investigate 
this matter? 

A I don't recall. He might have. 

Q, Well, didn7t he tell you you had the right to be con- 
fronted with such witnesses as were available that had 
given evidence against you? 

A No, sir, ,^ 

Q, Wasn't that told you? 

763 



li 



A No, sir. I was not told that. 

Q Perhaps this will recall it to you a little bit better. 

Don't you remember telling Maj, Hanchester that you would 
rather your lawyer examined the witnesses? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q What do you mean? 

A Well, sir, I didn't know ?;ho the witnesses were, 

Q What? 

A You told me I had the right to have the lawyer examine 
the v/itnesses, or I would. ; 

Q Well, you don't mean I told you that;, you mean Maj. 
Manchester told you that. What about that? You say 
I told you that? 

A Well, I don't imagine, I imagine it was him then. 

Q Well, you now just got through telling the Court that you 
had said that you would rather your lawyer examine 
whatever witnesses were against you. That is correct, 
isn't it? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q So then you must have been told, he must have told you 
that there were some witnesses against you? 

A Yes, But I was under the impression that it would be 
in Court* 

Q Did you ask him for any witness to be brought before you? 
A No, sir» 

Q All right. And then Maj. Manchester went on to read 
the Charges and Specifications to you, didn't he? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q And after he read those Charges and Specifications, he 
turned to each of you and asked you if you had anything 
to say; there were about five of you negro soldiers 
sitting there, isn't that correct? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q And he asked one, two, three, — three of them if they 
had anything to say, and each of them said, no, they 
did not have anything to say, three of them, before 
he got to you, isn't that correct? 

A No, sir. 

764 



w: 



0, How many did he talk to before he got you? 

A I v;/as the first one. I was the first one he got to. 

Q, Well, where were you seated in that room? 

A I was seated on a couch. 

Q, Who was sitting to the right? 

A Freddie Umblance . 

Q, Who else was sitting on the right of you? 

A I don't remember. 

Q There were two or three others to the right? 

A Yes, sir. The first one going around to the right, 
to the desk:, 

Q, You were sitting in front of the desk? . . ^ 

A No, sir. 1 was sitting on the couch. • 

Q, That is over in front of the desk? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, You said Freddie Umblanc e sat on the right of you? 

A Freddie Umblance sat on the left of me. 

Q, You sat on the right of him* Then who sat on the right 
of you? 

A No , one . 

Q, All right, now we have that. How many were in that room? 

A Five . 

Q Five negro soldiers? 

A Yes, sir. 

.Q, All right; and you spoke up, you say, you were the first 
one that they spoke to or that spoke up? 

A He was going around and I was the first one. He started 
going around from me on around,. 

Cl Well, you are sure he did not talk to two or three others 
before he talked to you? 

A I am positive, ' . 

765 



F 




' 




Q 


Vifell, let us assume you were the first one. What did he 
say to you? 




A 


He told me he was not for me or against me. 




Q 


And then he asked you if you had anything to say? 




A 


Yes, sir. 




Q 


And you spoke up, 




Defense (interposing): If the Court please, I think that 
counsel is interrupting his answers. 




he 


Trial Judge Advocate: No, I didn't interrupt. I am sure 
had finished. He said "yes, sir." 




Defense: You asked him to tell '.vhat he had to say, and 
then you interrupted him with another question before he got 
started. 




if 


Law Member: No, I think he asked him what he first said, 
he had anything to say, and what was first said. 

Defense: I don't think the v;itness completed the answer. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, let us go back and find out. 




The questions and answers, the last ones I asked him. 
Would you give us that, Hr, Stoddard? 






(Last two questions and answers read back.) 




Q 


And you spoke up, strike that. And when you spoke up, 

you told him exactly the same thing that appears in that 
written instrument that you signed? 




A 


Yes, sir. 




Q 


And that is exactly how that happened, vmsn't it, just 
as we have related here? 




A 


About me telling him? 




Q 


Yes. 




A 


Yes, sir. ^ 




Q 


And then he told you after that in order that there be 
no mistake about the matter that if you cared to you 
could put it in your own handwriting and in that way 
he would be sure about what you said, isn't that correct? 




A 


Well, he tolc me hfi c:o'iiJ.dn' c remember v/hat everybody 
said and it would be better to write it. 




Q 


Well, you were willing to v\/rite it, weren't you? 

766 


b. 




^ 



A Well, I don't know, I don't know whether I were or not. 

Q, Did you show any hesitancy about writing it? 

A Well, I didn't show any, no, sir. 

Q, Well, the truth of the matter is, then, Spencer, that 

you just couldn't write fast enough to get it over with, 
could you? 

A No, sir. 

Q You did write it promptly? 

A Yes, sir, I wrote. 

C And before you signed that written instrument, weren't you 
told you didn't have to do that? 

A No, sir, I was told I was doing the best thing. 

Q By whom? ' 

A By either you or him. 

Defense: Who do you mean? 

A (continuing) Col. Jamorski or Capt. Manchester, Maj, 

Manchester, I mean. 

Q Well, now, the truth of the matter is, I didn't speak to 
you the whole time you were in that room, did I? 

A I don't know; one of you did. 

Q Now, Just when were you told it was the best thing for 
you to do? 

A When I started out to write. 

Q, Well, you had previously verbally told exactly the same 
story, hadn't you, as appears in that writing? 

A Yes, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That's all. 

REDIRECT E:<AMINATI0N 

Questions by Defense: 

Q, Corporal Spencer, did Maj. Manchester or Col. Jaworski; 
or anyone else ever tell you that this statement might' 
be used against you? 

A They told me it would be used against me. 

Q When was that, before you had signed it, or afterward? 

767 



A After. 

Q Now, I want you to tell the Court again, so there will 
be no misunderstanding on that part of the conversation 
told you by Maj. Manchester, or Col. Jaworski, whatever 
the case may be, or anyone else told you, so there will 
be no misunderstanding. I want you to tell the Court 
about that when it was said, it will be better for you 
to make a statement, 

■ Trial Judge Advocate: He used the expression '*it v\;ould 
be the best thing*" 

Q Well, when you were told it would be the best thing for 
you or whatever the expression was that was used. 

A What was the question again, sir. 

Q, Now, what part of the conversation that you had with 
Maj. Manchester, or whoever else it may have been, 
were you told that it would the best for you to make 
a written statement? 

A After I got through telling them. 

Q, Well, will you give the Court again your best recollection 
of just v/hat was said to you? 

A They said, he was told I was down there. If the Court 

finds I say I vms not down there and the Court finds out 
I was down there, it would be harder for me. 

Q Now, Corporal Spencer, before this morning, when I talked 
with you out there, have I at any time ever talked with 
you about the conversation that took place in Maj. Man- 
chester's office? 

A Never, sir. 

Q, Has Captain Noyd ever? ■ 

A No, sir. 

Defense: That is all. 

RE CROSS EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocata: 

(I All of this conversation that you have just related to 
Major Beeks, took place as you said after you had made 
your oral statement? 

A Yes, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right, that is all. 
President: Any further questions? 

768 



Maj. Crocker: I have a question. 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 

Questions by Maj. Crocker: 

Q Corporal Spencer, did you go out of the room before 
you wrote the statement. 

A No, sir. I was given a paper and sent to another room 
to write it. 

Q And was anybody sitting next to you as you wrote the 
statement? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Who was? 

A Fred Umb lance . 

q. Was any officer there next to you as you wrote the state- 
ment? 

A No, sir. 

Q Did anybody tell you v^hat to write as you wrote it? 

A No, sir, they didn't. 

Maj. Crocker: That is all. 

President: Any further q.uestions by any members of the 
Court? 

Maj. MacLennan: Yes. 

Questions by Maj. MacLennan: 

Q Corporal Spencer, as I recall, if I recall rightly, as 

you have told the court today, you made an oral statement 
to Maj. Manchester and that after that statement had been 
made orally you were told that it might be or would be 
better to write it than, or were you told that it would 
be better to make a statement? 

A I was told it would bo bettor to write it. 

Q You had already made the oral statement? 

A Yes. 

Maj. MacLennan: That is all. 

Questions by Law Member: 

Q And did you make the oral statement, Corporal Spencer, 
after you were told that you did not have to make any 
statement at all? 

769 



A I think so, yes, sir. 

Q And were you also told that it could be used against 
you before you made your oral statement? 

,A Yes, sir, 

Q No one in that assemblage that day told you had to make 
a statement? 

A No, sir, not had to. 

President: Any further questions? That Is all, you 
are excused. 

Witness excused. 

(Maj, Robert H Manchester, resumes the witness stand,) 

Trial Judge Advocate: Does Counsel have any further 
questions he wishes to ask of the witness, Ma J. Manchester? 

Defense: No, I have no further questions. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Does the court wish to examine 
Maj. Manchester? 

President: I have a question I would like to ask you, 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 

Questions by the President: 

Q Maj, Manchester, did you at any time make a statement 

to the accused that if you say you were not in the area 
and then the Court finds that you were, it would go 
harder with you? 

A No, sir; I did not, 

Q Did you make any statement similar to that? 

A No, sir, I did not, 

Q Did any of the personnel acting under your Instructions 
make any such statement? 

A Not in my presence and not to my knowledge, 

^ Did you give any instructions to any of your personnel; 
what did you say? 

A No, sir, I did not., 

Q Was any such stt-temc-n", made by anyc i-j In your presence? 

A No, sir; it was not, 

770 



k. 



w 



Q Did you warn hin fully as rGgards prior to his riakins 
any statonent whatever? As to his rights? 

A I did not read the 24th Article of V/ar to hin, sir. 
I ejiplained it to hin fully. 

Q You er.plained it to hin fully before he made any state- 
ments? 

A Yes, sir. 

President: That is all. 

Questions by Law Ilenber: 

Q Did you state to Spencer, or infer to hin in any v/ay, 
shape or forn that the naking of this statement by him 
would affect in any way the action of this Court? 

A I did not. 

Law Member: I believe that is all. 

RBOROSS SXii/iinATIOII 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Ma J, Kanchester, ?/ho else was in the room at the time 
you talked with Corporal Spencer? 

A Do you refer to the other accused? / 

Q Any one at all, 

A Col. Jaworski, the Trial Jud^e Advocate, and the Assistant 
Trial Judge Advocate, Capt. Branand, and four other 
accused soldiers. 

Q Do you recall who they were? 

A I recall one of then; he was C. Spencer. I don't know 
v/ho the others were, however, that information is 
available, 

Q All men were brought back from overseas? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q You say you explained fully to hm his rights under 

the 24th Article of V/ar. V/ill you explain fully v/hat 
you said to hin, ap to what his rights were under the 
24th Article of V/cr? 

A Very well. It v/ill bo hard to explain it in exact 
v.'ords but the substance. That the accused, 

Q (interposing) I iisnit the exact v/ords. 

771 



A I don't recall the exact words. I was trying to give 
it as bkjst I could remember. 

Q, You don't recall some of the conversation yoa had with 
Corporal Spencer? 

A With a group of men, yes, sir. 

Q But do not recall the conversation you had with 
Corporal Spencer here? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Do you remember the words you used in that conversation? 

A Those that I have testified to, yes, sir. 

Q But you do not recall the exact words you used in ex- 
plaining his rights to him under the 2A-th Article of 
War, in explaining that to Corporal Spencer? 

A That is right. I don't remember the exact words. I 

explained the sum and substance of what it was, what I 
told him, and told all of them. 

Defense: I don't think: I have anything further. 

Law Member: Is there anything further, any further 
inquiry by any members of the Court they wish to make surround- 
ing the making of the statement proposed as Prosecution Exhi- 
bit 33? Is there any other evidence, Major Beeks, that you 
wish to offer on this issue? 

Defense: Not at this time, if it please the Court. 

Law Member: V^ell, of course, Major, you say "at this 
time." Now is the time to offer such evidence if you so 
desire. 

Defense: V/ell, I assume I have the right to offer such 
evidence later if I uncover other evidence at a later time 
and to move to strike on the basis of that. I assume I have 
that right. 

Law Member: Oh, yes; if you uncover some furth'vr 
evidence. 

Defense: I assume the Court is going to lot it in. 

Law Member: I said, have you any further evidence at 
this time on this issue? 

Defense: No, I do not at the present time. 

Law Member: The objection is overruled and the state- 
ment of the accused, Nathaniel Spencer, is received in evidence 
as Prosecution Exhibit No 33- 

772 



The signed statement of the accused, Nathaniel Spencer, 
which has been marked Prosecution Exhibit No 33 for identifi- 
cation is received in evidence. 

Law Member: Now, gentlemen, as I previously stated the 
Court does not desire to see the original statement, which 
v^e have been told contains other names of other accused, 
other than the accused making the statement. We therefore 
suggest that the photostatic copy of Exhibit 33, only, be 
furnished to the Court. Is there any objection to that, 
Major Beeks? 

Defense: The Defense has no objection, if the Court 
please, to the furnishing of a photostat or typewritten copy, 
but the Defense does object to the particular typewritten 
and photostated copy that the Prosecution has, although 
there are names blocked out, there are circumstances 
and facts which, in the opinion of the Defense, are fully 
as prejudicial to others as the use of a name, which does 
give an objection to the exhibit the Prosecution has offered. 

Law Member: On that particular objection the Law 
Member advises the members of the Court now, and will later, 
that any reference to any other accused, directly or in- 
directly in Prosecution's Exhibit 33, is entirely hearsay 
and cannot be taken into consideration by any member of 
the Court in its deliberations* 

Defense: I don't think, if the Court please, that 
such an instruction from the Court could possibly remove 
the prejudice from the actual words and statements being 
in the statement, it could influence the Court and most 
likely would. 

Trial Judge Advocate: May I recall, I expressly 
limited this to the accused, Nathaniel Spencer. It is not 
intended to relate to any other accused, and, as the Law 
Member knows, it is proper for statements in their entirety 
to be admitted in evidence provided proper instruction is 
given by the law member. The reason that this, or these 
other facts should remain in here, is because the Court is 
entitled to know everything the accused saw, and every- 
thing he said he saw going on. The Court is entitled 
to have the full benefit of that, But, we are not offering 
it against any one other than the accused, Nathaniel Spencer, 

Law Member: Major Beeks, may I ask this question: 
Will you state for the record if it is a fact that the 
photostat copy of the exhibit is a true copy of the 
original exhibit with the names of other accused deleted? 

Defense: Capt. Noyd, my assistant, has checked that, 
he has done so, and he assures me it is a true copy 
with the other names eradicated. Of course, I want it 
understood I make no objection on that ground, that it 
is not a true copy. 

Law Member: Then the objection is overruled and the 

773 



& 



copy of Exhibit 33 only will be furnished to the Court. 

Defense: Which copy, the typewritten copy or the 
photostatic copy? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Now, I have not gotten to the 
typewritten copy. I wanted also to suggest to the Court 
that in view of the fact that this statement is in the 
accused's own handwriting it would perhaps make matters 
much easier if, for the Court there was also furnished 
a correct typewritten statement and we have prepared it 
with that in mind. The other names are similarly blocked 
out on the typewritten statement, and if Maj. Seeks agrees, 
it is a correct typewritten copy, then I believe it would 
be helpful to have the typewritten copy available. 

Law Member: Just to have it available. 

Defense: I have no objection to that. 

Law Member: llay I make a suggestion, that the type- 
written copy be stapled to the photographed copy and be 
offered as one exhibit? 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all right v/ith us. 

Defense: Yes. 

Law Member: The original, therefore, will not go into 
the record. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Now, it is understood that the 
photostatic copy to which is clipped a typewritten copy may 
be substituted for the original statement, which was offered 
as Prosecution Exhibit 33, and the original statement with-, 
drawn . 

(Prosecution Exhibit 33 as received in evidence was read 
to the Court by the Trial Judge Advocate.) 

DIRECT EXA?nNATICN 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q, Major Manchester, do you know the accused. Private First 

Class Roy L Montgomery? 

A I do. 

Q ■ Did you or not ever have occasion to talk with him? 

A I talked to himi on several occasions. 

Q, And state whether or not, Maj. Manchester, he at any time 
made a written statement to you regarding the incident 
that happened in the Italian area at Fort Lawton? 

^ 77A 



A He made a written statement, not to me, sir. 

Q Well, when the written statement was made and delivered, 
were you or not present? 

A I was. - ' 

Q State whether or not prior to its delivery, Private 

First Class Roy L Montgomery, one of the accused, was 
given any warning? 

A He was. 

q, And will you tell the Court what that warning was? 

A There were two warnings given Montgomery, one was hy 
Lt Col Williams of the Inspector Generals Department. 
One was by yourself. 

Law Member: Were you present when Col. Williams gave 
that warning? 

The Witness: Yes, sir. .■^;,, ,. 

Q And you gave him the second warning or who did? 

A You did. 

Q I did. Now, when was the first warning given? 

A At the first part of the interview Col. Williams had 
with the accused Montgomery. 

Q Well, will you state the substance of that warning? 

A He asked him if he was familiar with his rights as a 

witness under the 24th Article of 7^ar, and the accused 
stated that he was. Then Lt. Col. Williams asked him 
if he had previously riven a statement and he stated 
that he had. Col. Williams asked him if the statement 
had been free and voluntary and he stated that at that 
time it had. At that time Col. Williams swore the 
witness in and took his statement from him. 

Q All right. After that was completed, I will ask you 
whether or not the accused, Private First Class Roy L 
Montgomery made any statement in his own handwriting? 

A He did. ' 

Q Now, you said something about the second one having 
been given by me. When was that second one given? 

A At the conclusion of Col. Williams' taking of a 
statement of the accused. 

Q ■ Well, was that warning given before or after the delivery 

775 



L 'of the;WFitteh-.stat9m$Ht to which you refer? 
A Both. 

Q, All right. Now, statewhother or not the Accused, 

Private First Class Roy L Montgomery, delivered a 
statement written by him to you? I don' t mean that the 
statement was written to you, but did he deliver it in 
your presence? 

A No, sir. He delivered it in my presence but not to me. 

Q, Yes. Now, you spoke of my having given a warning. 

Will you state in substance what the warning was I gave 



9 



A In substance you told the accused, Private Montgomery, 
that if he desired to you would like to have him write 
down a synopsis of his statement, which he had Just 
given to Col Williams. You told him that he was not 
obligated to do it. It would be dene of his own accord. 
That you would like to have it in his own language. The 
accused agreed to write it. He was furnished with a 
pencil and paper and sat off in a room by himself. 

Q Sat off in a room, by himself? 

A Yes. 

Q Then upon the completion of his statement, what, if 
anything, transpired? 

A At the tim.e the accused completed writing his statement 
we were called by Sergeant Young and told the accused 
; was ready and had finished his statement. I entered 
"■* the room with you and at that time you told Private 
■ MontgomiCry that the statement was full and voluntary, 
that'^he was writing the statement because it was the 
truth and because he wanted to write it, and that he 
would be promised nothing for writing it. And, nor 
could he be promised anything for writing.it. And at 
that time he was asked if he understood and he said he 
did, and he was told to go ahead and sign his name to 
the statement, which he did, and he handed it to mie , 
and I, in turn, handed it to you. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I will ask this be marked Prose- 
cution Exhibit for identification. 

The statem.ent above referred to was marked Prosecution 
Exhibit 34 for identification. 

4i I will ask you, Maj. Manchester, if the instument I 
am passinp; to you now, which has been marked for 
identification as Prosecution's Exhibit 'ik, if that is 
the instrument that was delivered by the accused Private 
First Class Roy L L'ontgomery in your presence? 

A It is. 

776 



^- 



Q I will ask you whether or not you made some identifying 
mark on each sheet of the paper? 

A I put two Initials "R.M." joined together, in the upper 
right-hand corner of each of the four sheets. 

Q And are those your initials? '•■ 

A They are . 

Trial Judge Advocate: I offer this instrument In evidence* 

Law Member: Show it to Ma J. Beeks. 

Defense: At this time, if it please the Court, there is 
something that has com.e to my attention* Pursuant to re- 
quest I am going to ask that the typewritten copy of the other 
exhibit be withdrawn. I notice by raising it to the light 
the name can be seen through it where it was blacked out in 
ink. 

President: Well, take a knife and cut the nam.es out. 

Defense: Yes. All right. 

Law Member: Yes. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right. 

Defense: Counsel, I don't want the Court to get the in- 
ference that the names which have been blanked out are all 
names of the accused. Some of these include names of those 
who are not even charged here. , /. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is true. I am sure that is 
true. We will just take out all names so there won't be 
any question raised to it. 

Law Mem.ber: Show Exhibit 33 to Ma j . Beeks. 

Defense: As it now stands it eliminates the last objection 
I raised to the Court. 

Law Member: In other words, the names that had been 
previously inked in have now been completely cut out from 
the exhibit? 

Defense: That is right. 

Law Member: And will you concur in the statem^ent that 
in the interim, in the past, that no member of the Court has 
raised it up to the light to examine and see through the Ink? 

Defense: I will say I noticed no memiber of the Court 
do so. . - 

Law Momber: All right. 

777 



F 



Defense: I have now completed reading Exhibit 3^« We 
make the same objection with respect to that exhibit. 

Law Member: Does the Defense intend to and would you - 
like to talk to the accused named in this exhibit?- 

Defense: I wonder if the Court intends to take' 
a recess at this time? ^ * . 

(Whispered discussion.) ■ • 

President: Court will take a 15-minute recess. 

* 

At this point a 15-minute recess was taken after which 
procee^ngs were resumed as follows: 

President: Prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, sir, we are ready, sir. 

President: Defense ready to proceed? 

Defense: The defense is ready, sir. 

President: ' Court will comiO to order. ■ 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record show that each 
of the accused are present, as well as the members of the 
Court being present, and all personnel representing the accused, 
and the personnel representing the Prosecution are present. 

t^aw Member: Major, do you wish to cross-examine the 
witness on the issue of making a voluntary statement? 

Defense: Are you through? " 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, I have offered it in evidence; 

CROSS EXAMINATION . .- 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Ma j . Manchester, I wish you would repeat again for the 
benefit of the Court exactly what Private Montgomery 
said to you or to anyone else in the room prior to the 
time that -the statement, which is Prosecution Exhibit • 
34 for identification, was made? 

A Which room do you refer to? . "' ^ 

■ Q Was there more than one room.? ' ' . 

A Oh, y^a, there was a room where he was examined, and a 
room where he made the statement- 

Q I am speaking now, of course, prior to the time he wrote 

778 



the statement. 

A You mean at the first time of the interviev; Col. Williams 
had Y.'lth him? 

Q I y;ant you to repeat everything Montgomery said on that 

day, prior to the time he Y:ent to the room' to make, 

to v?rite his written statement. 

A At the first part of the statement he was examined hy 
Col. Williams. Col. Williams asked him if he had 
made a previous statement and he stated he had. He 
asked him if the statement had been free and voluntary, 
or words to that effect, and he stated it had. He 
advised him that he did not have to make a further 
state r;:ent. He advised him of his rights. I don't 
believe he read the 24th Article of 7/ar to him.. He 
asked him if he desired to make a statement and 
I/iontgomery said he did, and the v/itness v/as sv/orn in 
and the statement was taken. 

Q Did you have any conversation at all with TJontgcmery 
yourself? 

A No, sir. I was not present during the entire taking 
of the statement. I v?as in and out of the room and I 
was not one of the examining officers. 

Q, 7/as anything said at that time about the possibility of 

bein£, sent to another place, of his being sent to another 
place? 

A Sent to another place? 

Q, Yes, other than to the stockade? 

A I don't recall anybody saying that. Perhaps you can 
refresh my ffiemory on that. Give me some indication. 

Q, 7/ell, did you have a conversation v/ith J'ontgomery at 

that tim.e about the possibility of his being sent som.e 
place else other than the place in v.'hich he had been 
confined or kept up to that time? 

A Not at that tim.e, I didn't. I did have such a conver- 
sation with him. 

Q, Cn that day? 

A I don't recall whether it v^as that day or the day 
before. 

Q, But you do recall there was bucL a conversation? 

A I recall there v:3s svicn. a conversation, yes, sir. 

Q, And he asked you som.ething about what you meant by 
some other place, didn't he? 

779 



A He may have asked what other place I meant? 

Q, But it would be asking the questions about v/hat you 
had referred to or v/hat you referred to? 

A I have a vague recollection of such a conversation, 
yes, sir. 

Q, Now, you have related now all of the conversation that 
Col. Williams had with Montgomery prior to the time 
he miada his written statement? 

A No, sir, I have not. '* 

Q Well, that is what I asked you to do, is give us all 
of thb conversation that took place prior to the time 
that Montgomery made his written statement? 

A That v;ould be imipossible, sir, because I vras not in 
the room during all the conversation. 

Q, In other words that vras all the conversation that you heard? 
A That Is right. That is the way I answered it, I believe. 
Defense: That is all. 

EXAMINATION BY THE CCURT 
Questions by Law Member: 

q Major, were you present at the time, and if such is the 
fact, v.'hen l!ontgomery vras told by Col. Williams, or 
Col. Williams stated to Montgomery words to the effect 
or in substance he did not have to make such a statem>nt? 

A I was, he did, sir. 

Q Did you or not hear Col, Williams say any+hing to the 

effect that the statement could bo used against him? 

A I don't recall him saying that, sir. 

Q Did Col. Willlaras at any time during the conference 
state to Montgomery whom he was? ■ 

A Not by name, no, sir. He told him he was f^^om the In- 
spector Generals Department. 

Q Well, did Col. Williams state that he was making an in- 
vestigatioii pertaining to this incident? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Did you or did you nc-u hear Col "»^j iliams in words or 
substance tell Montgom'jry that ho Cid not have to m.ake 
any statement? 

A He told him that any statement he made would be free 
and voluntary and of his own accord. 

Q Were you there at that time? 
A I was, yes, sir. 

780 



Q Did Montgomery indicate in any way that he understood 

what Col. Williams meant by that statement? 
A Yes, sir; he did. 

Q By word of mouth? 
A Yes , sir. 

Q And did he indicate that he understood the statement? 

A Yes, sir. My inference that he understood it, sir, was 
drawn by the fact that Montgomery stated that all he 
could do was repeat the previous statements he had given 
which were all true. 

Q Did Montgomery use those words? * ■. 

A In sum and substance, yes, sir. 

q, In this first room in which you were, was anybody taking 

down any of this conversation which passed between the 
officers and Montgomery? 

A At the time Col. Williams was takinc the statement? 

A Yes', sir, there was a stenographer or a reporter. It was 
not an officer; from the Inspector Generals Department. 

Q Did you see what he was writing? 

A I saw him making seme little lines or figures on paper 
that appeared to be shorthand. 

Q That appeared to be shorthand? 

A Yes, sir. A v/arrant officer. • . _ 

^ Did this writing take place by this warrant officer be- 
fore or after Col. Williams stated to him that the 
statement could be used against him? 

Defense: Now, if the Court please, Col. Williams never 
testified,— or MaJ. Manchester never testified that Col. Williams 
ever told him the statements could be used against him. I_ 
don't know what interpretation you are putting on the testi- 
mony but I specifically asked him, and he said he was never 
told that. 

Law Member: I will withdraw that. 

Was this taken dovfn by shorthand before or after 

Col. Williams had talked to Montgomery about making a 

statement? „.-,-,» i 

A As I recall it, sir, it was before. From Col. Williams 
opening v;ords to the accused. 

Q That is, this stenographer was taking down in shorthand 
everything that was said in that conference from the 
beginning? 

A That is my recollection, sir. 

Q Even before Col. Williams had warned him of any of his 

rights? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Did you hear the 24th Article of War mentioned there 
that day at that conference? 

781 



A No, sir, I did not. 

Q I don't mean the contents of the 24th Article of War, 
but did you hear the words "24th Article of War used 

at all? „ ^ ^.^ 

A No, sir, not the words "24th Article of War. I did 

not hear them. 

Law Member: Nov/, as I stated before Members of the 
Court, since this statement Prosecution Exhibit 34 for 
identification was made for, or in the presence of a 
superior officer by the accused, the ro^emoers of the Court 
have the right and are required to examine into the circum- 
stances of the making of that statement in such manner as 
they deem fitting and necessary. Have any members of the 
Court any questions they would like to ask the witness? 

Maj . Crocker: May I ask the law member, are you 
referring to the statement in writing by Montgomery? 

Law Member: I was referring to the oral statements 
mado by the accused in the presence of Col. Williams, in 
the first room* Do you wish to ask any questions? 

Maj. Crocker: Yes. 
Questions by Maj. Crocker: ^ 

Q Was Col. Jaworski present before the statement was 

mado? 
A Yes, sir, he was. 

Q Did he make any statement to Montgomery as to his 

rights? 
A No sir, not that I recall. 

Trial Judge Advocate: May I ask, sir, are you asking 
at the time that Col. Williams took the oral statem.ent. Is 
that the time you are speaking of? 

Defense: There has been no testimony by this witness 
about any oral testimony by Montgomery. 

Law Member: I mean, the first statem^ent that took 
place in the room. You understand that. Major Beeks. I 
did not mean to infer it was an oral statement. 

Defense: I understood, but I thought Maj. Crocker 
and Jaworski were confused. 

Law Memiber: All of my questions W ich I asked you 
heretofore pertained to the conferenco went on In the lirs^ 
room. "' • ■ 

The 7/itness: I understood that, sir. 
Q And that was prior to the writing out of the statement 

782 



by Montgomery v/hlch is proposed as an exhibit. 
A That s right . ■ 

Law Member: Does that straighten it out? 

Questions by Ma j . Crocker: 

Q The statement being offered in evidence is a statement 

in Montgomery's handwriting, is that correct? 
A Yes, sir. 

Law Member: That is correct. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is vmat the witness testified 
to* 

Law Member: And that was the statement written by the 
accused in another room following the original meeting between 
Col. Williams and Col. Jaworskl and the accused. 

(^ Well, I am I correct, there was a statement in 

Montgomery's handwriting, and there v/as a subsequent 
statement taken down by the stenographer before the 
statement by, 

A (interposing) Yes, sir. 

President: Subsequent: Was that statement written before 
or after the statement taken down in shorthand? 

The Witness J With the Court's permission, I would like 
to explain just what happened. 

President: All right, go ahead. 

The Witness: The accused was called into an interview- 
ing room where he was questioned by Col. Williams. At the 
conclusion of that statement which was taken down by a re- 
porter the accused then wrote out his statement in his own 
handwriting, which I have identified this morning. 

Law Member: And that was in another room? 
The Witness: Yes, sir. 
^ ■ President: That statement was signed in your presence? 
The Witness: Yes, sir; that is correct. 

RE CROSS EXAMINATION ■ 
Questions by Defense: 

Montgomery gave no oral statement there at that time. 
It simply referred to an oral statement he had made on 
a previous occasion, isn't that correct? 

A He gave an oral statement that was taken down by a re- 
porter in shorthand. 

783 



Q He did give an oral statement on that day? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Prior to making the written statement? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q, And that oral stateiTent conversation together v/ith all 
the conversation in that room was reported hy the 
shorthand reporter? 

A There v/as a man v/riting some shorthand. I don't read 

shorthand. 

Defense: I think that is all. 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 

Questions "by the President: 

Q As I gathered, in your testimony, the accused, when he 
was called in to be questioned by Col. Williams had 
already been questioned some time prior to that and 
made a statement? 

A Yes, sir. I had questioned the accused on two differ- 
ent occasions myself. 

Q Had the accused been warned of his rights on those 

occasions? 
A He had. I had read the 24th Article of Y.'ar to him. 

Q At every time you had questioned the accused, had he 

been warned of his rights? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q, That is, every time? 

A Yes, sir. Not only rerd the 24th Article of Vfar, but 
I T;ent into length to explain it to him. 

Q In each case you questioned him? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q, He was then called in before Col. Williams, and Col. 

Williams warned him as was testified here this morning? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q In your presence? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q After which he elected to make a statement before 

Col. Williams? 
A That's right, yes, sir. 

Q, And he was sworn- by Col. Williams and testified? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q And after having been sworn by Col. Williams, what was 
the next procedure which caused him to give you the 
written statement? 

A I was out of the room, sir, during the taking of the 

784 



oral statement by Col. Williams. I returned back in 
the rooin shortly 'before the conclusion of the state- 
ment. At that time he v/as asked if he desired to 
write that out in his own handvvriting so it would be 
in his own language, and ov/n words. 

Q Who was it that he was asked that by? 

A He was asked that by Col. Williams, and Col. Jaworski, 
both. 

Q And he made this written statement as a part, or it 
was a part of the investigation that v/as m-.de by 
Col J Tnilliams? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, To whom did he hand this to? 

A The written statem.ent was handed by the accused after 
he signed it to Col. Jaworski and he handed it to m.e 
and I initialled it. , 

Q Did Col. Jaworski hand it to you in the presence of the 

accused at that time? 
A Yes, sir, he did. 

Q, It did not go out of your sight or his sight before it 

was finally put in your possession? 
A Absolutely not, sir. 

Q r<as it signed by the accused in your presence? 
A Yes, sir, it was. 

Q, It was? 
A Yes, sir. 

President: I have no further questions. 
Questions by Law Member: 

Q Did Col. Williams ask him whether or not the prior state- 
ment he made was free and voluntary before Montgomery 
told that gathering anything pertr.ining to the 'happen- 
ings of this incident? 

A Yes, sir, he did. Making reference to previous state- 
ments that I h:id taken from Montgomery. 

Q Now, just what did you hear Col. Williams say to T'^ont- 
gomery pertaining to his rights? 

A He asked him if he was familiar with his rights as a 

witness. Montp:omery stated that he was. He asked him 
if they had been explained to him before and he stated 
' that they had. I am not attempting to quote Col. Williams. 
I will state that he said, "Do you know, Montgomery, you 
do not have to make a statement unless you want to?" and 
"You cannot bj conpelled to at any time, Montgomery? and 
he said he understood that, he had given previous state- 
ments and all ho could do vms say he had told the truth 
and repeat certain statements. 

785 . 



A 
Q 

A 

Q 
A 

Q 
A 

Q 
A 



T/as that prior to any 
cldent by Montgomery? 
On that day, It v/as . 



of the happenings in this in- 



Did you go in that room v/here Montgomery was v/riting 
out this proposed exhibit in his ov/n handwriting? 
I went in with Col. Jaworski at the time it was handed 
to Col. Jaworski. 

And it Vv-as then the accused, Montgomery, who handed it 
to Col. Jaworski? 
Yes, sir, it was. 

Did any conversation take place in there before he 

handed it to Col. Jaworski? 

Yes, sir, there did* . ; ' ■ . 

What was it? 

Col. Jaworski asked him again if the statement was 

free and voluntary, if he was giving it because he wanted 

to, if he realized it was true he did not have to give 

it unless he had wanted to, and he said he did, and 

Col. Jav/orski said under the circumstances he would 

accept the statement, and he asked MontgomiOry to sign 

the statem.ent and give it to him. I v-'as present v/hen 

that was signed and immediately after and heard that 

conversation. 



President: Any c-ther questions? 
Questions by Capt. Atkinson: 

Ql There has oeen some testimony that there has been a 

stenographer present, that a stenographer was present 
when Col. Williams first started the interview with 
Montgomery? 

A Yes, sir. - ' 



Q 



A 



I am wondering if the notes that he was making v/ere 
the warnings and preliminary conversations of Col. 7;illiams, 
or were they just the man's statements? 
I am certain, sir, that they contain the warnings of 
Col. Williams, oecause I recall the v/arrant officer 
reporter sitting at the table writing v/hile the warnings 
going on. 



were 



Capt. Atkinson: Thank you 



RSCROSS EXAimiATICN 



Questions by Defense; 



Q Tiihat was the exact date, do you recall? 

A I cannot recall the exact date, sir, but it v/as the week 

of the 25th of Septeraber, It may have been the 26th or 
27th of September, I m.ade no record of the date, inasmiuch 
as it v;as being taken by a reporter. 



786 



Trial Judge Advocate: Nov/, Ma j . Beeks, do you wish , 
to offer any evidence pertaining to the voluntary or in- 
voluntary nature of the proposed exhibit? 

Dei'ense : Yes, I Vvish to place the accused, Montgomery, 

upon the stand, subject to the same understanding that was 

had with the Court and v;ith Counsel v;ith respect to the pre- 
vious 'flitness. 

Lav/ Member: T.'ell, is there any question about that? 
The accused can take the stand on this issue only. He can 
be sworn. And ne will not be asked any other questions 
except those pertaining to this issue, with respect to 
whether this was a voluntary act or was not. You may re- 
tire, Maj. Manchester. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Do you wish to explain his 
rights and so fortl'.-. 

Lav/ Member: Private Montgomery, I want to explain 
to you your rights as a witness in Arniy Court Martial 
procedure. An accused may be sworn as a witness in his own 
behalf the same as any other witness in the proceeding. If 
he elects to be so sworn his testimony is comtidered the 
same as any other witness. He is subject to cross-examina- 
tion by the Trial Judge Advocate and by the members of the 
Court. An accused, also, instead of being sworn as a wit- 
ness, may make an unsworn statement, which will be read to 
the Court by either himself or by his counsel. If he makes 
such an unsworn statement he is not subject to cross examina- 
tion by any one. It is not strictly evidence, but will be 
given consideration by the Court to which members of the 
Court think it is entitled. An accused may also elect to 
remain silent; making no statement virhatever, sworn or un- 
sworn, and the fact that he does remain silent cannot be 
used against him.. 

Now, those are three rights that an accused has in a 
Court Martial proceeding as a witness- In the Instant 
case at the present time a s-^ioarate issue has arisen as to 
whether or not an alleged statement purported to be signed 
by you and now offered in evidence as Prosecution Exhibit 
34, and in that case an accused has a right to be sworn as • 
a witness on that issue only, as to whether it was volun- 
tary or involuntary, and he cannot be questioned on any 
other matter pertaining to any other issue, other than the 
voluntary or involuntary nature of the statement. 

He can, however, be cross-examined by the Trial Judge 
Advocate and by the members of the Court. Now, Private 
Montgomery, do you clearly understand what I have said to 
you? 



sir. 



Private Montgomery Yes, sir, I clearly understand, 



Law Member: And during the recess, did you confer 
with your counsel on that issue? 

787 







Private Montgomery: I did, sir. 






Law Member: And do you desire to be sworn as a witness 




and 


testify solely on this issue of the proposed Exhibit 3^, 




the 


statement? ' - ■ 
Private Montgomery: I do, sir. 
Law Member: You will be sworn. 
Private First Class Roy L Montgomery, 650th Port Company, 




a wi 


•tness for the defense, was sworn and testified as follows: 
Trial Judge Advocate: State your name? 
Private Montgomery: Roy L Montgomery. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Your grade is Private First Class? 
Private Montgomery: Yes, sir. 
Trial Judge Advocate: And your organization? 
Private Montgomery: Formerly the 650th Port Company. 
Trial Judge Advocate: And your station? 
Private Montgomery: Post Stockade, Fort Lawton, Ti'ashing- 




ton. 


Trial Judge Advocate: You are one of the accused in this 




case 


? 
Private Montgomery: Yes, sir. - 

DIRECT EXAMINATION ' ' . ' ■. 




Questions by Defense J 




Q 


How old are you, Montgomery? 




A 


Twenty~three . 




Q 


How much education have you had? 




A 


Ninth grade, sir. - ' ' 




Q 


Now, do you recall the date, Montgomery, some time during 

the latter part of September v/hen you v,'ere up in 

Ma j . Manchester's office, or in some office down in the 

Port of Embarkation, at which time you made a v.'ritten 

statement? 




A 


Yes, sir; I do. 




Q 


T.ho was present on that occasion? 




A 


There was Col. T/illiams, Col. Javiorski, and Maj. Manchester, 
and a Warrant Officer, and a stenographer. 




Q 


Now, prior to you being asked any questions with 
respect to the occurrences on the night of August l4, 

788 


IK 







was any explanation of the 24th Article of TTay made 

to you? 
A Well, he asked me, did I understand the 24th Article 

of War. ■ • 

Q And is that all that was done, you were just asked 

if you understood the 24th Article of War. 
A Yes, sir. 

Q And who asked if you understood the 24th Article of 

War? 
A Col. Williams. 

Q, State whether or not Col. Williams made any statement 
to you with respect to whether or not you had to 
answer questions? 

A Well, he said I was not, was not forced to answer any 

questions under the 24th Article of War. 

Q And did ha make any statement with respect to anything 

that mdght occur if you refused to answer them? 
A No, sir. Well, --no, sir. 

Q Did he make, state whether or not he made any state- 
ment with respect to whether or not anyone else would 
take over in the event you refused to answer questions? | 

A Yes, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Just a minute. I have let counsel ^ 
lead the witness three separate questions and I think the 
witness ought to testify and I think the witness ought to be 
asked questions so he can give answers. 

Law Member: What was the question? -^ • 4 

Defense: I was just trying to find out what was going •] 
on. j 

Trial Judge Advocate: I know. .^ 

(Last question read back.) ■ ,' 1 

Law Member: That is obviously leading. Objection is | 

-iiit:.r^_ "hilt, dnn't, nursue it further. 1 



ovorruled, but don't pursue it further. 

Q Well, what statemient was made? - ' 

A He stated if I refused to answer any questions under tne 

24th Article of War, it would be put in the hands of 

higher authority. 

q, state whether or not you did not or did recall the words 

"higher authority" being used? 
A Yes, I do. • 

O State whether or not Col. Williams or anyone else ever 
made any statement to you with respect to what might 
be done with the answers to any questions that you did 
make answers to? 

A I didn't understand. 

789 



>i 



Lav; Member: Read It back, will you? 
(Last question read back.) 

Q, Well, I will shorten it up. Did Col. Williams or anyone 

else tell you at that time what might happen if you 
did not answer questions? 

A No, sir. 

Q, State to the Court whether or not you had a conversa- 
tion with anyone in the room on that occasion with 
respect to your being sent some place else? 

A Yes, sir," I did. 

Q, Who was that conversation with? 
A It was Col. Williams. 

Q, Well, what was the substance of the conversation? 

A Well, he said that I v;ouldn't have to be sent out here 
to this Stockade. I asked him, v/here would I be sent 
to, to a Company, or to some other Stockade some place 
else and he said it v'ould be a better place. 

Q, Was that before or after you gave a written statement, 

or not? 
A Before. 

President: Would you read that last answer, Mr Reporter? 

(Last two questions and answers read back.) 

Defense: That is all. 

CROSS-EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q, Now, Montgomery, the truth of the matter is you had been 
v/arned in detail about your rights under the 24th 
Article of War on a previous occasion prior to this 
time? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, And you knew all about the 24th Article of War v/hen 

Col. Williams talked with you? 
A A part of it. 

Q, Tell the Court, what part. 

A I never did read it. I only heard it. 

Q What part had you heard? 

A That I vjouldn't be forced to ansvrer any questions I didn't 

want to. 

Q That's right. And you had heard also that any 

answers that you might make could be used against you? 
A No, sir. 

Q You had not heard that? 
A No, sir. 

790 



n 



Q Maj. Manchester had not previously told you about that? 
A No, sir. 

Q, Was the 24th Article of War read to you at the time 

Col. Williams talked to you, not at that time, 

but before that time? 

A Yes, sir. . 

Q The entire 24 th Article of War was read to you, wasn't 
it, by Maj. Manchester on the 26th of August, 1944? 

A I don't know, sir, if all of it was read to me or not, 
because I never have read it myself. 

Q, Didn't he tell you he was reading the 24th Article of 

War to you? 
A Yes, sir, he did. 

q. And that happened some time before Col. Williams talked 

with you, didn't it? 
A Yes, sir, it did. 

Q, All right, now; when you went off to write this statem.ent, 

Prosecution Exhibit 34 for identification, that is all 

in your ovin handwriting, isn't it? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Will you look it over carefully, let us be sure of it? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Have you seen it before? 
A Yes, sir, I did it. 

Q, And your counsel, Maj. Beoks, shov:ed it to you a few 

minutes ago v/hen you had a conference? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q And it is all in your own handwriting? 
A Yes, sir. 

(^ Who was present when you v.rote this entire instrument? 
A Well, you and Maj. Manchester was in and out of the room 
while I was writing it. 

Q, In and out of the room? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Just what part of the time were we in, while you were 

writing it? 
A When I first started, you were in and went out, and when 

I had finished, about the first page, you came back in. 

Q What did we ask you or say? 
A . Not a thing, sir. 

Q I didn't say a word to you until you had finished? 
A I can't recall. 

Q And Maj. Manchester did not say a word to you until you 

791 



had finished? 
A, I can't recall, sir. • " 

Q, After you had finished writing this instrument and before 

it was delivered, what did I say? 
A You told me to write anything that was true, or I v/as 

not supposed to make the statement. 

Q, Did I ask you whether it was true? 
A I don't remember, sir. 
Q You don't know? 

Defense: I thought this examination was limited strictly 
to what took place before the statement was made. 

Lav^ Member: I think that may be so. You might examine 
him as to what he wrote in the statement as to whether it was 
true or otherwise. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, of course, now, this goes 
to the question of whether it was true or not. Because If it 
goes to the question of whether it was true at that time, 
it goes to the question of whether it was voluntary. That is 
why I am asking this. 

Q All right. I will ask you if it is not a fact that 

at the conclusion of your statement you yourself wrote 
in your own handwriting, you wrote In your own handwrit- 
ing "this statement is true, and I was not ofrced to make 
it^? 

A Yes, sir; I Vi/rote that. '■' 

Q Was that true or not? 
A Part of it, sir. 

Q What part of it was hot true? 
A I cannot recall off hand. 

Defense: 7»e are not contending here that this man 
was forced to make. The objection the Defense has, is, he was not 
warned that the statement, if made, might be used against him, 
and which is a prerequisite in taking a statement, when a 
higher ranking officer is dealing with a private, or an en- 
listed man. 

Law Member: I appreciate that. 

Trial Judge Advocate: As I understand, I can proceed? 

Law Member: You cannot proceed with whether or not 
that statement is true. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I asked him if what he was — wrote, 

792 



here Is true "This statement is true and I was not 
forced to make It." 

Law Member: He has stated he wrote it in his own hand- 
writing. That is all there is to it. 

Q All right. Is that part true or is it not; is it the 
fact that the whole, or that part of this is true, and 
he was not forced to make it. That is the sole question 
I asked him, is that part true, or isn't it? 

Law Member: For the question you asked that witness, 
whether, "Is that statement true," pertaining to the fact 
that he wrote that in his own handwriting, that objection is 
overruled. But I am not permitting any questions as to 
whether or not the statements contained therein are true 
or false. 

Trial Judge Advocate: No, I am not asking him about 
statements made in the fore-part of the statement. I am 
confining it sole to the last part which he wrote, which I 
read to him. 

Law Member: Then the objection is overruled. 

Defense: We are not taking the position that this 
witness was required to make this statement. He was not 
sufficiently v/arned of his rights and what or the fact 
the statement might be used for evidence against him. But 
he did m.ake a statement. Maybe I misunderstand counsel and 
don't understand him clearly. 

Trial Judge Advocate: He did not confine his questions 
to that. He went into other matters on direct examination, 
at least to show something else in the nature of a promise, 
bu t he , 

Law Member: (interposing) He went into the questions of 
whether a promise or a threat was made. He had a perfect 
right to do that. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is right. And that is 
what I am going into now. 

Law Member: 7/ell, as I have ruled, yes. 

Q This statement that you have written at the bottom of 

the statement, I will read it to you again. This state- 
ment was made and it says "This statement is made be- 
cause it is true, and I was not forced to make it." 
Now Justtell the Court anything that is, is that sen- 
tence then true, or isn't it? 

A It is the truth, that I wrote it, sir. 

Q It is the truth that you wrote it? 
A Yes, sir. ' . 

Q Well, was it the truth at the time that you wrote it? 
A I don't knov/, sir. 

793 




Q Well, is there anything about these sentences or this 
sentence which reads "This statement is made because 
it's true, and I wasn't forced to make it." That is 
untrue? 

Defense: Now if the Court please, 

Law Member (interposing): That is a legitimate ques- 
tion. 

Q Will you ansv/er that question? Is there anything about 
this sentence v/hich reads "This statement is made be- 
cause it's true, and I wasn't forced to make it." Is 
there anything about that sentence that is untrue? 

A The way it says, because it is true, I don't know 

whether it is true or not. 

Q Because it is written that way you don't know whether 
it is true or not. Well, let us go at it through the 
back door, then. Tell the Court anything that comes to 
your mind that is untrue about this sentence which 
reads "This statement was mad© because it's true and 
I wasn't forced to make it." Just tell the Court any- 
thing that is untrue about it. 

A I made the statement, sir. The last statement. 

Q Well, was it true at the time you made it? 

A About whether it is true, and I wasntt forced to make 

it? . 

Q That's right. 

A I wasn't forced to make it. 

Defense: Of course, you see, if the Court please, a man 
might not be physically forced to do sonething but still he 
might have to do it, it might not be voluntary because as a 
matter of law because of pre-existing circumstances. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I think the witness understands 
about what we are talking of. 

Defense: Well, I think I have a right to direct my re- 
marks to the Court. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I am not saying that you do not 
have . 

Law Member: Well, let us go on. Cn direct examination. 
Major, you referred or examined him regarding any promises or 
threats v/hich this man v/ould receive in consideration for 
signing that statement. 

Defense: That is true, sir. 

Law Member: Now, in that statement he said he v;as not 
forced to make it. 

.Defense: That is true. 

79A 







Law Member: The Trial Judge Advocate on cross-examining 
has the right to ask him if that statement was not forced, 
if he was not forced to make it, and if it was true at the 
time he wrote it. Now, that is the issue, isn't it? 

Defense: I am not denying that. 

Trial Judge Advocate: You are just objecting to it, is 
all. ■ . 

Law Member: 7^'ell, just a minute, now. Private Mont- 
gomery, was the statement, the last sentence of your state- 
ment, "this statement is true," in words or substance ,' "and 
I was not forced to make it"; were you forced to sign that 
statement? 

The Witness: I don't know, sir, if I was forced or 
not. He asked me to sign it, at least, he told me to sign 
it, and I signed it. 

Law Member: Well, just prior to that he told you you 
did not have to make any statement, didn't he? 

The Witness: No, sir; he never did tell me I did not 
have to make any statement. 

Law Member: Didn't you testify a few minutes ago that 
before you signed it and handed it over to Col. Jaworski, 
he told you you did not have to make such a statem.ent? 

The '/iTltness: No, sir. 

Defense: He did not. 

Trial Judge Advocate: He did so. I am willing to 
stand on the record on that. 

Defense: I am vvilling to stand on the record, also. 

Presient: Would you look through your notes, Mr Re- 
porter, and read that portion of the testimony? 

(Portion of testimony referred to was read back by 
the reporter.) 

Law Member: All right. Just a moment. 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT .■ 

Questions by Law Member: 

Q At the time you delivered this alleged statement to 

Col. Jaworski, just tell us what the conversation was 
that took place between you and Col. Jav^forski? 

A After I handed it over, there wasn't any conversation. 

^ None at all? 
A No, sir. 

795 



Q, You just signed it and handed it over to Col. Jaworski? 
k Yes, sir. 

Q, Vi/ho was present then? 
A I think Maj. Manchester. 

RECROSS EXilMINA nON 
Questions by Trial c udge jvdvocatc: 

Q, Well, what did I say to you just before you turned the 
statement over to me? Tell the Court now. 

k You told me to write on the stateraent that, that the 

statement was true, and I was not forced to do anything. 

Q, Was that all? 

A Yes, sir, that is all I recall. 

Q, Didn't I tell you that you did not have to make the 

statement unless you wanted to? 
A No, sir. 

Q, Didn't I tell you if you did make the statement it could 

be used against you? 
A No, sir. 

Q, Did I ask you whether it was true? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q, What was your answer? 
/^ Ti>at is, , that i 



Did I a 



• that it was to .the best of my^knowledge, 
sk you vmetner it was voluntary? ° 



A _^Np,^sir,. ^^. , „ 
Q, Did 'I ask you anything else? 

A I can't recall if you did, sir. 

Defense: Just a moment. I do v;ant to ask, "Vi/as the state- 
ment true" be stricken. The substance of this stateraent is 
not an issue. 

Law Member: The truth or falsity is not an issue. And 
I vi/ill grant that motion and strike the question and the answer 
pertaining to that. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right. 

Law Member: As to whether or not the statement was true. 

Q, Did you or not make the statement it was true? 
A To the best of my knowledge. 

Q, Defense: We are getting right into the same issue 
again. 

Law Member: No, that is as to the threao or promise to 
the witness and it is being so taken, strictly that portion. 

796 



Defense: It is solely for that purpose. 

Law Member: Definitely. 

Q, Before Col. Williams talked with you you had given 

Maj. Manchester a statement several days before? 
A That's right. 

Q, And before Col. Williams took the statement, didn't you 

tell him you had previously given a statement? 
A To the best of my knowledge. 

Q, And didn't you proceed to tell Col. Williams the same 

facts as best you remembered? 
A Not this day . 

Q What? 

A Not this day. i 

Q vmat day? 

A The next day down in Building 722. 

Q, Well, did you at any time tell a different story to 

Col. Williams than you had told to Col. or Maj. Manches- 
ter? 

A No, sir, I did not. 

Q, Did you in this written statement that has been written 
here, offered in evidence, this statement that I show 
you, Prosecution Exhibit 3^; did you say anything in 
that written statement that was different from what you 
had told Col. Williams or Maj. Manchester? 

A I don't know whether I did or not, . . " 

Defense: That is the same thing again. This is improper 
cross-examination of the witness on this issue. 

• ■ Trial Judge Advocate: It is very obvious, that if the 
witness told the same story after he had been told before, _ 
after he had once been warned of his rights, then these things 
as he said, brought about by something having been said or 
promised him or at least indicated to him that he was_ 

going to another stockade, or something like that, it 

would not have had any effect on his statement. And, another 
thing, it shows the witness was making the same statement 
as he had previously made, as he had once before been 
previously warned, and once before made a statement. 

Law Member: The objection is overruled. 

Trial Judge Advocate: If the Court will pardon me 
for turning my back, but I didn't hear,— what was that? 

Law Member: Objection overruled. 

Q, Then, as far as you know, you told the same story in 

your written statement that you told Col. vailiams and 
that you told Maj. Manchester previously? 

797 



A I couldn't say, sir, because at the time I gave it to 

them I didn't take a copy and it was quite a little 
time between those two times. 

Q You mean at the time you gave them this you did not 

take a copy? 
A I never did take a copy. 

Q Would you like a look at it? 

A I don't knov; if this is the same words that I gave to 

Col. Williams or Ma j . Manchester, or not. 

Q Well, is the substance of it the same? 

A (perusing paper) It could be the same, sir. As I 

said, I didn't make a copy of the first statement I ever 

ma de . 

Q Well, as far as you know, there is nothing in that state- 
ment, Prosecution Exhibit '}U for identification, that is 
different from any previous statements you have given? 

A Not as I can recall. 

Q Now, you told the Court something about Co-. Williams 

having said what, if you didn't answer the questions; then 

what? 

A He said it would be put in the hands of higher authori- 
ties. 

Q, Well, how did you construe that? 
A I don't understand? 

Q, Well, what did you think ho meant? 
A Well, higher than he is. 

Q Is that vjhat he told you about it, or what you understood 

him to say? 
A I probably could be punished in some extent. 

Q, In what way? 

A In some way I wouldn't desire. 

Q Now, are you tolling this Court that is what caused you 

to answer those questions that Col. Williams put to you? 
A Partly, sir. 

Q, What caused you to answer the questions Maj. Manchester 

had previously asked you? 
A . Because he asked me. 

Q Well, he asked you a few more things, 

A (interposing) He read the 2>!Hth Article of War to me. 

Q Well, Maj. Manchester did not tell you if his questions 
were not answered it would be placed in the hands of 
higher authority, did he? 

A If I am not mistaken, he did. 

Q You mean Maj. Manchester told you the same thing, too, 

798 



did he? 
A If I am not mistaken. 

Q And that was before Col. Williams questioned you? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Well, if you are not mistaken, Maj. Manchester told you 
also that if you did not answer the questions it could 
be placed in the hands of higher authority? is that your 

testimony? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Are you sure that I didn't also tell you it would be 

placed in the hands of higher authorities? 
A No, sir, you didn't. 

Q. Yqu 'ar? sure I didn't tell you that? 

XI YoS'af-e^sure I didn't tell you that I might take it up 

with the Chief of Staff or somebody like that? 
A No, sir. 

Q, Well, novi/, what vms it you said about, you might not 

be sent to the stockade? 

A Before I gave the statement, Col. Williams said I wouldn't 

be sent, Col. Williams said he wanted to get a 

written statement from me and I would not be sent out 
here to the stockade, and I asked him where I would 
be sent, whether to another stockade or Company, and 
he said a better place. 

Q, What effect did that have on you? 

A I thought I would be going free in a few days. 

Q, You thought after giving your statement like that you 
would be going free in a few days, is that v^fhay you 
thought? 
A I thought I would be going free in a few days after 

he said I would be going to a better place. 

Q, After you gave the statement to Maj . Manchester, v;hat 

did he say to you about where you would be confined? 
A He didn't ever say. 

Q, Are you sure that Maj. Manchester had not also, told 

you that you might be sent to a better place when you 
gave the statement to him? 

A No, sir, he did not say that. 

Q Then you gave the statement to Maj. Manchester without 
thinking you would go to a better place, or that you 
would go free? 

A . I thought I would be free in a few days. 

Q. Oh, when you gave him that statement you thought you 

would be free in a few days also? 
A Yes sir. 

799 



q. But the fact that you thought you would be free in 
a few days did not have anything to do with your 
giving a statement to Ma j . Manchester? 

A No, sir. 

Q, Did it have anything to do with your giving the state- 
ment to Col. Williams? 
A V\fell, I felt more like giving it to him. 

Q. But you had, in substance, give before the same state- 
ment to Maj. Manchester? 
A I did, sir. 

Q Without anything like that having been said to you or 

promised to you? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, when you wrote this statement out. Prosecution 
Exhibit 3A-, did I say anything to you about the fact 
' that you might be going free in a few days? 
A No, sir. . , 

Q You are sure, now, that I didn't say anything like that? 
A No, sir. 

Q Did I indicate to you that you might go to a better 

place? 
A No, sir, you didn't. ■ 

Q, Now, you have told the Court that at one time while 
you were writing that Maj. Manchester and I, or both 
of us, came in there, but did not say anything to you. 
Was this written statement that you have identified 
and said was in your handwriting, was it written by 
you when you were in a room alone? 

A I don't know, sir, if I was in the room alone all the 
while or not, If I am not mistaken, Sergeant Young 
was in there. 

Q Sergeant Young. Wasn't he on the outside of the room? 
A He v;as in there one while were I was sitting. 

Q For a short while, you mean? 

A He was in there when I first went in and I don't know 
how long he stayed. 

Q How long did it take you to write the statement? 
A About ten minutes. 

Defense: Do you have any objection to developing who 
Sergeant young is? Do you know who Sergeant Young is? 

A Yes. 

Q. Who? 

A He is a buck sergeant that works down in Maj. Manches- 
ter's office. 

800 



q. You say Sergeant Young may have been in there a 

little while? 
A Yes, sir. He was in there one time or another. 

Q And the rest of the time there vjasn't anyone in there 

but you? 
A I am not sure, because I wasn't paying any attention. 

Ci You didn't see anyone in there anyway? 
A No, sir. 

Q You don't recall anyone being in there other than 

Sergeant Young for a short time? 
A No, sir 

q. One other question. During Col. V/illiams' interview, 
you said Col. Williams vjas present, and I believe you 
said I was present part of the time? 

A Yes, sir; part of the time. 

Q And I believe you said that Maj. Manchester was present? 

A Well, I saw him once. But I don't, I think he was 

present. 

Q, Was anybody else present? 
A A warrant officer. 

Q, All right, a warrant officer. 

A I think it was a warrant officer. 

Q Vtas anybody present besides those and the warrant officer? 
A I can't recall, sir. 

q. You can't recall anybody else being present? 
A No , s ir . 

Q Now, Montgomery, just very briefly, I want to run over 
with you the beginning of Col. V\rilliams' interview, and 
I want you to tell the Court if this is not correct. 
When you came in to talk with Col. Williams, you remember Col, 
Williams asked if you understood your rights under the 
2^th Article of War, and you said that they had been 
explained to you. You told him that? 

A Yes, sir, I told him that. 

Q You also told him you had given a previous statement to 

Maj. Manchester? 
A I did, sir. 

Q, And you also told him what you had told Maj. Manchester 

was the truth? 
A Yes, I told him it was the truth. 

Q And you told Col. Vifilliams you were ready to tell him 

the same things, didn't you tell him that? 
A I don't recall that, sir. 

801 



Q Vy'ell, v<ihat did you say along those lines? 

A I can't recall. Well, he said, he asked ne a few 

questions. 

Q Well, what were those questions? 

A He asked me about one of the accused. And after that 

was over, he said that you was there. He said Col. 

Jaworski is here, he is the man came to help you, and 

I want you to give him your statement, and so I went into 

the other room and give him the statement. 

Q Is that all that happened there? 
A That is all. 

Q Vifell, as a matter of fact, how long were you with 

Col. vailiams? 
A In that room, less than five minutes. 

Q, You talked with him the day before? 
A No, sir. 

(^ Well, when did you ever talk with Col. Williams before? 
A There was one day here at Fort Lawton, I can't recall 
the date. 

Q Then, Col. Williams didn't take a statement from you that 

day at all? 
A No, sir; he didn't take a statement from me, only a 

couple questions. 

0, But Col. Williams had taken a statement from you previous- 
ly, hadn't he? 
A Yes. 

Lav\; Member: Col. Vifilliams? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes. 

^ And when Col. Williams took that statement from you 

previously you knew whtit your rights were under Article 
of Vfer 21,, didn't you? 

A No more than he said, I wasn't forced to answer any 
questions I didn't want to. 

Q Well, at the time that happened you had already given 

Maj. Manchester a previous statement? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q And at that time, Major Manchester had read Article of 

War 24 to you? 
A He did, sir. 

Q, So that the day you gave this written statement, Prose- 
custion Exhibit 34, that was the only statement that you 
gave that day, wasn't it? 

A Yes, sir. 

802 



Q, And your testiriony is that, that on that day you had 

talked with Col. V/llllaras only about five minutes? 
A Yes, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Wo further questions. 

: SXAIiiniiTIOH BY THE COURT 

Questions by Law Member: 

Q, I.IontgoiiGry, you say you gave a statevnent to Maj. Man- 
chester, is that correct? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q How many days before the day you v/rote out Prosecution 

Sxhibit 34 for identification was that? 
A The first statement I gave Maj. "anchester was 

August the 17th. 

Q And this statement is what day. Colonel? 

Trial Judge Advocate: This statement does not bear the 
date. If it please the Court. But the previous v/itness, 
Ilaj, Manchester testified that it was the last week in 
September. 

Q At the time you gave the statement to Ilaj. Manchester, 
did you agree with Maj. Manchester at .any time that you 
would give a further statement? 

A Ho, sir, he didn't ask me if I would. 

Questions by Maj. Crockery 

Q Montgomery, whon you made any of these statements, did 
anybody tell you v;hat they wanted you to say in the 
statements? 

A No, sir, 

Q You said in all of then just what you v/antc.d to say, did 

you not? 
A Yes, sir. " 

Maj. Crocker: Ko further questions. 

President: Any further questions by members of the Court? 

Defense: I would like to ask hin another question. 

RSDIR2CT EXAMIIIATIOH 

Q,uestions by Defense: 

Q, Do you knov/ v/hat an article of war is? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q \Vhat is it? Tell the Court what an Article of Y/ar is. 
A V/ell, an Article of \."ar, I would say like the 61st 
Article of 'Jar; absent v/ithout leave. 

803 



Q 


who mekes these 'Irticles of War? 


A 


I don't know. 




R^CROSS HixtMir^TION 


Que 


stions by Trial Judg^e Advocate: 


^ 


As part of your training, Mont^: ornery, you have had 




the Articles of War read to you, and sorae explained to 




you? 


A 


J.GS . 




Dv-fensc : The point is, as I understand it, the lontuage 




used in these Articles of War is Irmjuage that could only 




be interpreted by a man of education and many of them have 




to be end still are being interpret-^d by our Courts even 




today. So just the reading of this Article of War over, 




either by the witness, or to this vjitness, doesn't mean any- 




thing. 




Trial Judge Advocate: Well, 1 don't appreciate the lect- 




ure counsel is giving the Court on the Articles of War. I 




ask that the last remark be stricken. I object. 




Defense; Then shov; my objection. 




Lev; Member: i/eix, there v^asn't an objection. The ques- 




tion was, did he know, as a part of his training, what the 




Articles of V.ar were or If some were read to him, and some 




explained, and his ansYi/er was, yes, and I think that may 




stand. I think the members of the Court ere fully familiar 




with the contents of the 24th Article of War, and so Col. 




Jr,v,orski's objection, to your portion of the objection, or 




comments will be stricken as to the Articles of War. 




Defense: I will ask that his coxruuent, to the effect of 




giving a lecture to the Court on the Articles of War, be 




also stricken. 




Trial Judge Advocc te: Yes, it has already been stricken, 




Major. 




President: Any further questions? If not, the witness 




will be excused. 




V/itness excused. 




Presidt^nt: Court will be in recess until 1:3C p.m. 




(The Court then at 12:C£ p.m., was recessed to reconvene 




at 1:3C p.iu. ) 




President: Is the trosecution ready to proceed? 




.. 8C4 



p- 



Trial Judge Advocpte: Prosecution io r^edy, sir. 
Pr3sidc;nt: Is the dafense rsady to procaad? 
Defense: Defense is ready, sir. 

rresid^.nt: Court will come to order. 

(The roll of the accused was called by the assistant 
Trial Judge Advocate, all being present.) 

Trial Judge Advocate; Let the record show that 
each of the accused is ^resent, that all members of the 
Court are present, and that the personnel- representing 
the accused are present as V/ell as the personnel representing 
the Prosecution. 

Lav; ivxember: Nov;, iviajor Eeeks, have you any further 
evidence you vash to offer on the issue as to whether or 
not the statement proposed as Prosecution ^ixhibit 34, was 
voluntary or involuntcry? 

Defense: I have nothing further et this time, sir. 

Lav; kexTiber: Lave you anything further to offer? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, if the Court please. 
I v/ou1g like to have Laj. Manchester take the stand again. 

Maj. Robert li. Mancnester, resum^^s the witness stand 
and testifies further as follows: 

R^DIRiCT 3XAr.:iNATI0N. 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q, Lfejor, you are reminded that you are still under oath. 

A I understand, sir. 

Q, Ma J. Lcnchester, during the course of your investiga- 
tion, or interrogation, or discussions with the accused, 
Private First Class Roy lV;ontgom3ry, did you or not at 
any time make the statement to him that if he did not 
answer any questions that you asked, the matter would 
have to be referred to a higher authority? 

A No, sir; I did not. 

Q, Vii'henMaj. Beeks questioned you this morning, he asked 
you if you had had some conversation with the accused, 
Private First Class Roy Montgomery, with respect to the 
matter of his confinement to the stockade or et some 
other place. v;ill you tell the Court whether or not 
you at any time had a conversation vith that accused 
relating to his confinement? 

A I did. 

Q, Will you tell the Court what that conversation was? 

6G£' 



Lew kimbor: Ana r.heii it was. 

Q, And v;h3n it wes, yes. 

A I am unable et this tim-a, sir, to give tho 87.sct dpte 

of it. It W8S some several days efter the l£th of 
August, l.'±4, ana aft^r e time that Private Roy 
Montgomary had ^ivan r statement to investigators 
Freeman and Olson of our office, a statement in his 
own hand', ritinj^,, 8nd I had taken -nother statement 
from him, a transcribed statement, ohortly after 
that Private Montgomery wonted to Lnov; if it 7;as 
possible to be removed from the stockade where he vjas 
then confined with the other accused. I stated that 
that v,cs possible, could probably bt arranfiod. I don't 
recall v^ihether I asked him the reason or whether I 
asked him if he was riraid to be :vith the other 
accused. At any rate, Private Montgomery stated that 
inasmuch as Lis sts t^mc:;nts had incrin.inated and named 
several other accused, he 7;ould rather not be down 
whcire they viould knovj , xvher-j that ;vould be knovm, and 
v;hc;re they would find out about it, and he would rather 
be kept in a i^lace separate, end, as I recall, at that 
time I told him I thought such a /aOV<i was possible. I 
don't recall \jh^ther or not such a move was made. 

Q State Vvhethtor or not that was the only converse tion 

you had with the accused, Ivlontgom^ry, v;ith respect to 
tne matter of his conf inem^iint? 

A That is all I recall, sir. 

Trial Judg=; Advocate: You may hevo the witn^iss. 

RiiCROoo ^mirt'iiou 

'Questions by Defense : 

<^. How many diffur.;nt statements w^re obtained from 
Lontgom^ry, La;ior? 

A To my knowledge, thore Ws^re four, I belie V;^, sir. 

Q In oth»r words, you were never satisfied with the 

statements you obtained, you Just kjpt trying to obtain 
further statements? 

A ¥/e were alvays satisfied with thj statements we ob- 
tained. V/e were satisfied with th- first statement. 
Private Montgomery had indicated he wanted to volunteer 
further statements and that is the purpose of taking 
further statements by us. 

Q, And that was the purpose indicated to Col. Jaworski, 
for the pur^yos^ of taking further statements? 

A I did not inaicate tnet. At the time it was under 

the jurisdiction of the Inspector Generals Department, 
up for investig.^ tion, what the purpose was, I don't 
know . 

Q, iDpeaking of this incident, did you or not make an in- 

8Co 






A 

A 



A 






Voatigation, an ir.itiol invastif^e tion also tekan 
after the incident? 
Yjs, sir. 

And by thj incident, I raian the Icth of iurust. 

Did you t trains ts that? 

That was torciinatod th^:; 13th day of 'LU{;u.it, 1944. 

What was th^^ purj...oso of it b-^ing tarJiiina tod? 

Due to thj fact that the criminal phase of tha invastigs- 
tion hod baen taken ov^r by the Inspector Generals 
Office of tho Nfr Doprrtnient . 

And v;ith respect to the time that thj Inspector General 
from V/ashington took tho matter ovor this statement 
we have be^^n sp-aaLint^ of, that has b>=cn exhibited to 
you, and that you havo identified that IViontgomery fave 
you, was that after or before the time that the In- 
spector Gon„ral took it over? 
That was aft^r tho lucpector Genorol took it ov.^r. 

And statements you have mentionea that were giv.jn to 
you, were they given to you bofors or after the time 
the Inspector Genorol took th*;; matter over? 
Lefore Sept^^mbor 13th. 

Defense: No further questions. 

^A^.-IK^TIOI' BY Thi COURT 

. tions by Law Ivlember ; 

V/as this conversation which you havo just r^letid per- 
taining to Llontgom^ry, stating he rentod to go to some 
other place, did that tak^ place before, or after the 
makin.. of the statement r-pro3ent>::d by Prosecution 
i;xhibit 34 for identification? 
That was bofcr^, sir. 



A 



A 



Did you in words or substance stcte or infer to tho 
accus;:;d, Montgomery, that if he sicned this statement 
you would Sou that he >as s^nt to -nother pl^^-ce? 
No, sir, I did not. 

otions by President: . ■ 

Was tho conversation that you had v;ith Montgomery with 
reference to his boin^ transferred to another place 
made in connection v.ith any statements that you w^re 
taking from him? 

oir, it was made titer I had taken th ; statement from 
him and not during the process of the taking of any 
statement. 

•«7as it made at hie recjiest or at your suggiotion? 
The recucst v.es made by Private Lontgomery, or tho 



8C7 



su£g«istion Tos nifrdc by hini. 

Frjsidont: I hav^ nothing furthar. Any further ques- 
tions? 

Triol Judfiu \dvocptj: I hrva no further questions, 
,^ir . 

Low Muiabjr: la thard sny fui-th^r .^vid^ncj thnt you 
Y.ish to introducvj? 

. ■ Trial Judgo Advoccta: YoS, I hevj anothir witness I 

would likj to producsi to introduco to the Court so that 
tho Court mr.y hov^ the- full benefit of this informetion. 

Frosid;;nt: That is all Major. You hed nothing further, 
did you? 

D^if ansd : I havo nothing, further- , 

V/itnoss jxcus^d. 

Lt,. Col. Curtis L. WilliQEio, Insp^^ctors G^norals D-part- 
m^nt, a witnoos for tho Prosecution, v,as sv7orn and testifiod 
as follows: 

"'' DIRiCT EX ^1: IF .'.T I ON 

£^,UijStions by Trial Judga Advoceto: ' 

Q, ibtate your narriu and your rank, your organization, or 

your assignment, and ^''our stetion, ploase. 
A Curtis L. Williams, Liiiut:inant Colonel, IGI , Station, 

V/ashington, D. C, Office of tho Inspector General. 

Q Col. V/illiaras, did you ovor havo occasion to make en 
investigation of the matter relating to the incident 
■ that occurred in the Italian area At Fort Lawton on the 
evening of August 14, 1^44? 

A I did. 

Q, '.t whos-e direction was that investigation made? 
A At the direction of the Chief of Transportion of the 
Y/ar Dtfpartm^nt, General Gross. 

Q, Do you recall ap^jroxime tely v.hon it -as that you commenced 

that investigation? 
A I bolisve it was, I arrived in Seattle on ^ufust tho 

2t , lt,44, and I think I comcx^nced the investigation 

the following Llondcy, v-hich would bo around the first 

or Second of September, 1944. 

Q, Did you or not in the course; of that investigation have 
occasion to question the accused, Private First Class 
Roy Montgomery? 

A Is that Roy L. Montgomery? 

808 



Q 


That is Roy L. Montgomery. 


A 


I did. 


Q 


Did you or not, prior to questioning him, giv3 him any 




explanation of Articlj of Vv'ar 24? 


A 


I did. 


Q 


Did you or not uxplnin tha Article to him in d^itail? 


A 


I did. 


Q 


Aft^r you questionod tho accused, Frivato First Class 




Roy L. Kont£-,om^ry , state whether or not anything was 




said \ ith respect to his {living a statement in his ov/n 




handvvriting. 


A 


Upon the completion of Roy Montgomery giving, upon the 




completion of me taking his testimony, I asked him, did 




he care to make this same statement '.'hich he had made 




to the stenographer in his o?jn handviriting? His reply, 


Q. 


(interposing) What did he say, if anything? 


A 


His reply pas that he did. 


Co 


Now, prior to the time that, Well, strike that. Did 




he thereupon undertake to make a statement in his orn - 




handwriting? 


/. 


he did. , . 


Q 


And what vc.s it that you said? 




I informed him that if he cared to make s statement in 




writing that that statement which he would moke could be 




used against him. 


Q 


Did he thereupon make a statement in writing? 


A 


He did make such a statement. 


Q 


Yifas that statement turned over to anyone? 


A 


Ye s, it was. 


Q 


•• 

Were you present when it was delivered? 


k 


I was. 


Q, 


Now, during the time that you talked with the accused, 




Private First Class Roy L. Montgomery, did you or not 




eVer state to him that I was present for the purpose of 




helping him? 


A 


I did not. 


Q 


Did you at any time see me do, or say anything that in- 




dicated I mi^ht be ther^. for the purpose of helping 




him? 


A 


I did not. 


Q. 


Did you or not have occasion at any time to talk with 




the accused Private Roy L. Montgoffl:;ry with respect to his 


»■- 


809 







; 

:» 

confin^Eiont in a stockedo? 




L 


I had no such convorsf;tion v/ith Montgomary. 




Q 


Did tho question of his confinaruont in tho stockp.do 
i;Vir hriso in your pr^sonco? 




A 


No. , . ■ 
Trial Judgo Advocot^: You may havu thci witness. 

GH0o3 ^X'.MINATIOI- 




QU. 


istions by D^f-na-: 




Q 


Col. Wiiiianc, som^ tiiii.j or oth^r you hevi talkod vi^ith 
nil of thoS3 accused, havj you not? 




A 


No, I haven't. 




Q 


vVhich man haven't you talkod to? 




A 


I hev,; not tnlkjd to th^ tvo groups that m^t^ r^turnod 
by plonj from th^ ov^rsoas station. I only talked to 
those who ^7c^rb pr^sjnt at the; tirii^ of m^- arrival h^r^ 
in .^.U£U3t. 




Q, 


Can you £ivu m^- th„ n-uu.s of th^ caen you havj talkc;d to? 




A 


I cannot recall ail, but I can r-^ccll sonu. 




Q, 


Did you ^var talk to Jani^s Covorson? 




A 


I don't b^lioVo I did. 




<^ 


Did you ^v^r talk to Lo-j Dixon? 




f^ 


I am not certain. I could d,tormin>^ soon y,-h^th^r I did 
or not. 




Q 


Did you ev^r talk to Russell illlis? 




A 

. 4 


I boli^Vd I did, y-s. 




0/ 


You buliov^ you talkod with Russtll iillis. Nov;, 7;as your 
conversation ivith Russull iJllis bofor^ or aft^r the 
conversation you had v ith Montgomery? 




A 

^1. 


I could dot^rmino that. 




Q 


You cannot recall that now? 




A 


No. 




Q 


?/.j11, -was it on thu sam- day as the conversation that 
you had v;ith Montfom^ry? 




A 


I can't recall that ^ith^r. 




Q. 


Do you recall -.vho 'i^jas prosent at th^ time you talked to 
jiillis? 




A 

J.! 


Only in this r,ay. That th;j indivlduf'ls ?;ho wer^ presant 
whon I talked to iiiliis, if I talked to him, vjere the 
same individuals vho v^^re pr^s^nt at the time that I 
talk>.d to raost of tho otho-r witnosses. 

810 


H: 







wt 




1 




^ 


V/^ll, Colon-.!, I undjrstood you to ssy you had talked 

with Siiis? 




L 


I 3rid I b,jli..;Vu I had. I think tho record uill show 
tho t . 




^ 


Is th^Po any doubt in your mind obout that? 




L 


I don't boli.jVo thjr^ is. 




Q 


I \70uld liko to hsvc you d^t^rmine it. 




A 


I could dwt^rmino it soon. 




Q 


If th^r^ is any doubt in your mind, 1 -'ish you vcould 
dotcirmino it. 




A 


All ripht. If it is all right v/ith tho Court I can do- 
tormin- vhoth^r I tolkod with ijllis by r.-.f.;rring to 
th^ vv-itn^ss's t-^stimony I had. 




Q 


V/jil, I don't V'cnt you to r-f..-r to tho t-.stimony. 

Law Lombs^r : 'vVithout r-.f-jrrin£ to your records, you 
cannot snsvor that positively y:.s or no? 
Th.^ V7itn„ss: To. 




Q 


Can you tdl us at that timo, whet it v.-as Russall Ellis 
told you? 




A 


No, I couldn' t . . 




Q 


You don't recall, but, strike that. Th- warning, 

if any, that you fcavo Russ^:;ll ijlllis with rjspact to 
th^^ 24th 'irticlo of V.'ar, do you racall that? 




f 
j.i. 


I do, yos. 




Q 


Do you hav,.- a stock ^'hraso that you uso- ell th.. tim^? 




A 


I have tho 24th '^rticlo of War. 




^ 


The 24th Article of V.'ar? 




A 


luS. 




^ 


Do you r-.ad th^ £4th Articl-^ of Vv'ar to them? 




A 


Yus, we do. 




(^ 


Do you follow that up with any explanation? 




A 


May I explain to you how it is done? 




Q 


Yes. 




^ 
-^ 


How Wo do it, th^ witness if first sworn, and then he 
is askod, do you undsrstand your ri£hts as a witness 
und^r th<j 24th '.rticl- of v;er? If his answer is yes 
or no, we go ahead and r.;ad the 24th '.rticle of War to 
him and th^n we ask him, "Now, do you und.^rstand your 
rights und-r th,. 24th '.rticle of Wer as a witness," If 
his answer is "y^s" th^n we £o ah^iad with the witness. 
If it is "no" Wo go ahead and explain to him. 


* 


Q 


What did Montgomery suy, did ho say ho understood 
his rights undor tho 24th '.rticlo of War? 




A 


YoS, h.. CoTtainly did, or olso I would not have gono ahead 

611 



■ end qu^stioriod hin. ' '• 

Q Wh^n you r^ad tho S4th Article of Vrrr, and ixplsin^d 
thu 24th .'.rticl^ oi V.'ar to him, it was thon thought 
thdr^ v,'8& no purt-os^ in going, further ahoad vith any 
further explanation? 

X Cv>rtainly must hev^. 

Q, Wall, you did? 

A YoS. The r-Gords will show t^j did, CwPtainly Yi^ did. 

Dof^ns.. : That is all. 

R^BlRjlCT iXAlv^INATION 

questions by Trial Judf;-- '.dvocato: 

Q, Just on„ qu^ition, Col. Williams. Do you r^m..nb:.r a 

vjitn^ss by tho naru^ of Willio Ellis? 
A I do. 

Q No\v, dows that suggest to you or dojs the t r-fr^sh your 
recoil. ction as to v/ho or what JSllis it was you int.rro- 
getc-d? 

A Nov;, may I explain that in this investigation I intorro- 
gatjd 164 witnesses, /.nd as far as th-ir nam^s srd con- 
CernjQ, I could not sw^er, without lookin, at th^ record, 
just v.ho I did question. 

Q All right. Well, I b^lijvo you told thi Court that of 

tho accuoed th^r^- v.^re two groups that wor- brought back 
from oVeTSoes that you had not qUe^tion^d? 

A That^s right. 

Q, Now, had you or not cuostionad all of thos^ who Woro 

horo and vho had not ba^n ovjrsaas? 
A Yos, I had. 

Trial Judgj Advocate: That is all. 

HJCROoo EXM.-IN'TION 

Q,UoStions by Defense: 

Q V;hen you talked to 164 p^oplo, it is protty hard to 

r^m-ombdr tho details you go into with >each individual 
afterwards, isn't it? 

A It is, yeS, V/ithout r..frjshing your memory by looking 

at the records. 

D-f-nSe: That is ail. 

jjX'-IvilN'.TION BY TKj] COURT 

c^^UeStions by th^ Ire s id en t: 

Q You hoVe refreshed your memory in this casj as far as 

812 



for 8S Iwontgomory is conc-rnjd froiu your r-cords 
bofoTo you csm^ in to testify? 
A I t)^t your pardon, sir. 

Q, I say, you r^fr^sh^d your memory from thoso records 

boforo you com. in to testify? 
L May I meko on ^explanation? 

Q Y6S • 

A Certain individuals b^in£ question. d, nft-r wo had com- 

plot^d Questioning the-m, w^ quostion^d th^m if thoy 
yishv^d to put thuir testimony in v/riting, and at which 
tiflu v;^ told th..n that if thoy did, anything thoy said 
could bo used e£ninst th^m. That is why I say I rimeinb^r 
in tho casj of kontgom^ry, and th. samj is truo v;ith 
each oth.r indiviaual. 

President: All ri^ht, go ah^ad. 

RJCROoo j;XMv:iN':TIOK 

Questions by D^f eno..- : 

Q, First, you r^ao thoiii th^ 24th Article of War? ^ 

A YeS. 

Q ^nd thon aft^r you r.ad th^ 24th Articl^i of War to 

thoia you ask.d thein Y;h^ther or not th;ey understood it? 
A That's right. 

G '.nd if thjy ansv.^r, yos, thoy do understand it, then 

you procewd to question th^m? 
A That is right. 

Q Woll, as I recall it, you said that Montgomery, aft^r 

you r-.ad tha 24th '.rticl-e of War to him, said that ha 
understood it? 

A That's right. 

Q By tho way, 'ivas th.r- a stenographer in the room v;han 
you questioned thjs.. various accused that took down 
ovarything that v;as said? 

A One of my stonogroph.-rs . 

Q But did you hov. a reporter prasjnt? 

A Y^s, any tim^ I qu-^tioned thorn I had a reporter prasant. 



Q 



And that includes everything that \ies said in the room 
that day to tho laan? 
A Jlverything in tho r^portor's record you mean? 

Q Woll, no, do you scy somathing o'r somo things to the 

man that ar^ off tho record, or dOeS that transcript 
includo everything that was said? 

A No, \^o do not talk to people off the record. 



Q, 



So tho transcript that was ma da voula include everything 
that -vvould b^ said in his presanco*? 



813 



/I From tl'U; boginnlng of our conversation, r nd th:,n at 

tn^ '^nd of our questioning, from th. tim,. ha is sv;orn, 
ond thon w^ add," v;j ask him, "Is th^r^ rnything- jIs^, 
or any information concjrninc v;hich you vvent to givo?" 
'nd thot is th., finrl question and th:, finel part of 
thj record. 

Duf-ns^: I s.„. That is ell. 

. Rj:DIR^'CT iX'MIN'TION - - 

ru-stions by Trial Judg. '.dvocsto: 

C Th^r3 is just another qu:-stion I 7,-nt to bring out. 

Col. VVillismc, this investigation you mada, v.as that 
u-jon its completion classified or unclassified? 

/. It ViiBS classifi-d. 

Q And hOT,v v,8s it classified? 
A Confidential. 

^ Is that report available thosd days for use by anyone 

who wants to r^f^r to it? 
A It is not. 

Q Has a copy of that report beon mada available to anyone 
at thu ieOttl-. Port of Embarkation? 

/ In my recommendations to Gen,.ral Cross, I r-commended 

that two copies of thu report be referred to the Port 
Commander for his information, and I have since learned, -- 

■Q That that ".vas done? 
'. That that res done. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all. 

RjXROSS EX^iyilN'.TION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Is that record nvailabl. to this Court, if th^y desire 

it? • ■ 

A I do not kno\. . 

Q In so far as the testimony of these accused is concerned? 
A Ivlay I explain that? 

/ jn investigation of the Inspector General, because we 
ar- agents to the Secretary of War, end the directing 
authority, he is the only person v.ho has that authority 
to give that report to anyone, and I have nothing to do 
with it after it has Deen completed. 

Law Member: In this instance it is Gen-ral Gross. 

c \Vell, Y-hat is it you do have that you refresh your 
recollection from? 

814 



, A 


I beg your pardon? 


Q, 


What is it you do have in your possession to refresh 




your recollection from? 


A 


From my own notes. 


Q 


From your ovm personal notes that you made? 


A 


That's right. 


Q 


Not a record of the proceedings? 


A 


Vfell, I think I could get a record of the proceedings. 


Q 


V/ell, you don't have that with you at this time? 


A 


Not with mie . 


Q 


In your belongings do you have it at the Post or near 




here? 


A 


No. That record v>/as turned over to the Post Commxpnder. 




Two copies, I suppose it was. 


Q. 


Since you have come to Seattle on this case you have not 




had eccess to a copy of that? 


A 


I have not had possession of it; no. 


q, 


Have you examined it in connection with your testimony in 




this case? 


A 


I have Seen the record, yes, since I came here. 




Defense: That is all. 




Trial Judge Advocate: That is all. Has the Court any 




questions? 




President: Any questions? No, apparently not. 




The witness will be excused. 




Witness excused. 




Law Member: No further evidence on that statement now? 




Trial Judge Advocate: No. 




Defense : No. 




Law Member: Do I understand that Prosecution Exhibit 




No. 34, also has some names in it? 




Trial Judge Advocate: That is correct, sir. I am not 


sure of whtithor I made this ststom<int in connaction with my 


off 


er, and if you will pardon me I would like to make it again, 


if 


I did. 1 want, it understood that this Prosecution Exhibit 


34 


for identification is now being offered as Prosecution's 


jixhibit 34, but is bdinfe off^rad for tho solu and limited 


purpose of being used against the accustid, Private First 


Cla 


ss Roy L. Montgomery, and is not being used against any 


oth 


er accused. 




Law keiuber: Of course, that is the law. 




815 



Trial Judgo Advocate: That is right. But I want to bj 
sure my ofi^r ^Ocs no further. 

Lew koiuhor: Tn<^ D^-fonso obj.^ction to Prosecution Exhi- 
bit 34 is overruled , and th^ vixhibit v;ill b^ received as 
Prosv^-cution iilxhibit 34. Now, than, ag.ain I state that the 
Court doos not wish to s^e the original stateiiiont which con- 
tains othor names other than the accused, Roy L. Montgomery. 
And requcssts that what was don>j with Exhibit 33 will be done 
with Exhibit 34 beforo it is handed to the Court. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right. 

The document abovo referred to, previously marked 
Prosecution Exhibit 34 for identification is received in 
evidence . 

Defense: V/ell, if the Court please, the Defense makes 
the same objection to Exhibit 34 as it made v ith respect 
to Exhibit 33. And I make th-^ following observation. Of 
course, the nam-os of th^ accused are oblit^rat^^d because 
that is a rule of law that compels that. But I notice that 
counsc;l has obliterated other names in among the accused. 

Law t/leiubur : M.P.'s, for instance''' 

D-;=fc!nsc : Y/ell, other individuals. I don't think it 
is proper. I think he should take tht bitter with the sweet, 
and I don't think it is fair to obliterate other names. The 
names of the accused are obliterated, end taken out for a 
Very definite reason. Because it would be erroneious and re- 
quire a retrial of this case if they Werc not, but I don't 
think, just of his own volition that he should blank out 
all of the names that appear in the statement. 

Law Member: That objection may be well taken. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Now, if the Court please, 
counsel knows very well there; isn't any purpose in deleting 
those names and we certainly did not have any purpose in 
leaving them out or in leaving them stay in, and I think 
any insinuation by counsel or inference is very unfair and 
that such Were not left in but Were left out for a definite 
reason or purpose is entirely unvifar rented. 

Def--in&e: I am sorry. I intended to make no such 
insinuation or inference. 

Law Member: Suppose that you two go out with the 
exhibit and then come back and tie will proceed. 

Trial Judge Advocate: There is no need. If counsel 
will just indicate what nomes he 'v-'^ats in, I will abide 
by it, and let it go in. 

President: The Court will take a recess to give 
the defense attorneys a chance to study the exhibit. 

816 



Trial Judgo Advocate; I ara goin^; to hava to do e 

littlo cutting again, if it ploaso the Court. I d id not 

think this v;as so thin that it would shov; through, but it 
is. 

President: V/c will takj a short roC3ss, r3maining 
soatod. • . 

At this point a short rocoss was taken sftjr which 
procoodings v.^sro r^sun^d, as folloY;s: 

Prjsidvint: Aro all of tho eccusad beck in court? 

Captain of tho M.P.'s: All of th- sccusod ar^ back. 

Prosidjnt: Court will com^ to ord.^r. ■" 

Trial Judgd Advocate: Is the Court r^ady for ni^j to ■ 
procw^d? 

Prdsid^^nt: Woll, lc;t Uo gcit in tha record that all 
aru pr^Sont? _ • 

Trial Judgj Ad voce to: Y«jS, sir. Lot thu record show 
that oach of tha accused aro present, that all members of 
the Court ary present, that th^ parsonn^l r 3 presenting 
tho accused as well as the personnel representing tha 
Prosecution ar^ ^s ch prjSont. I now offer in evidence, 
in substitution and in lioU of Prosecution i;xhibit 34, 
a photostatic copy of that exhibit which has the names 
blocked out, V. ith the exception of tb^ nam. that counsel 
rc.qu-3tod b. kopt in thr, t exhibit and also a typewritten 
copy of that oxhibit for th^ convenience of the Court and 
th^ruupon ^vill withdraiv the original. 

Law Lomb^r: That is correct. And th';.r^ is no question, 
Major, but th- substituted exhibits ar,. true copies of the 
originrl? 

Defense: YeS, without in any way waiving any of the 
objections heretofore lead-, I do not have objection to the 
substitution of the; .chotostotic and typ.^v/ritten copy. 

Law Member: All ri^ht. • - 

Defense: 1 do insist, howevjr, that, Seriously, there 
are circumstances appearing in this statement and as such 
which are highly prejudicial to the other accused, as if 
they stayed in, their names, 

Law Member: Well, the statement made in the first _ 
instance is binding only upon tha one who made it, and it 
is not binding upon any of the other members of the accused. 
That is thoroughly understood by all m^bers of the Court, 
ivia j or . 

(Prosecution ilxhibit 34, in evidence, was read to 
the Court by the Trial Judge Advocate.) 

817 



Tria:. Jv.'ae.,e ^idvcc. ,e. hc\i ^ cr-.isei r^is jus;, r .-.ues.cu 
if :i liE.d an./ objectio.i in tae s:,i;;i:er-ent of Nc^timniel Sijcncer, 
v;i..ic:i is rrcGOCi.tion nviaibit 33? to iiiS-rtiUc^ cue narie L.;i:.t 
nc-d .'02.1 tf.--veji out aiiu I i.ave iic o ).i ctioij, to t;i.,t« And 
it is in the iat-.er ::;-rt of tiie statement Wi^rjre it is 
Sc.id, ''thi. t frii.utened y\e w'nen I turned around I S£\/ two 

. .P.'s. Cne of ciiei. were Jchn Pi i-:iiey, " and ve I'ave 

agreed ti.e i,ai;e tiiat Si.ould :,,c in ti^ere is Jciin ['i.'.ney 
and llibt is ;.ll rj....,t v.fjt:- i e. IJill you fix IL<X "p? 

Def onse; Y -s. 

( aj. Tiob.rt .(. i anciiuc/t'-r, resur s thu scand and 
z stjfiod further as folIov/sO 

DIllJCT '.XA. Jl-iiTJi^K 
«^u-.stions by Trial Judj^e i.dvocate: 



You und.rsi.a.i^, ;aj. i anchf^st r, that you arn still 
und;r outhV 
H I do . 

Ci ila.i. ,,ancixst;-r, do you rr^cali i/li- ther or not the 

accusod, v/illie Pr :vct>t, Sr., was a;:.Er.andd in ccmi...c- 
tion with the incid..nt tnat occurred in tiis Italian 
area at Fort Lav/ton? 

A Ye s , s ir . 



'< 



Vvill y( u state to the Court v/aother or not rJillie 
f revest, the accused, l/illie Prevcst, Si., v;as exauiiied 
in connection witn the i.iCident that occurred in tne 
Italian area at Fort Lawton? 



, c 



^ Y/ill you s-.;ae to t}ie Court \^heU.er or not \7illie 

Frevost, Sr., ti.e ^ccuLed, u;;cn the C( i., l-^tion of ris 
stater.,eiit, ^^re-ared a stai:eiiient in his o^^n nandv/ritmg? 

ii He did. 

q 'iJere you or not present at the tii.ies these stater. ents 

were liiade of Willie Prevost, Sr.V 
ii I was. • 

:^ Will ycu tell tiiC Court whether or not I said anyt'ning 
to V/illie Prevost, Sr. , prior to the tir.e of the 
delivery of ti^at statenent? 

ii You did. 

g Will /ou tell ti.e Court vjhat I said? 

A You Etc ted to the accused, \7illie Prevoso, did he unuer- 
stand the statenent ti.at he i.ad r^ade a. id ..'rioV.en v;ns 
j.iade of his ov;n accord, freo and volu.ycaryi tnat he _ 
v;as not cbli..ate;i tc ..;;he it nor cauld ycu ,rccLi2.se mm 
anyti.irit, for i.ahint, it, 

^ Did he thereu|.on deliver ti.e statement? 

818 



A After you had made the statement I have just related 
you aslced Prevost if he understood that. He stated 
that he did. You stated to him with that understanding 
you would like to have him sign his name and I believe 
serial number to the document. 

Q Now, Maj , Manchester, prior to the time that Willie 

Prevost prepared this v\;ritten statement, state whether 
or not he had been interviewed by anyone? 

A He was questioned by Lt. Col. Williams. 

^ Is that Lt. Col. Williams, Curtis Williams? 
A I don't know Col. Williams' first name. 

Q He is the Colonel from the Inspector Generals Department 

whom you have seen in the court room today? 
A That's right, yes, sir. - ■ 

Q, Were you present at the beginning of that interview? 
A I was not. , . 

Q Were you present at any time during the course of the 
interview? 

A I came into the office where Col. 'Williams vjas inter- 
viewing Prevost right after the conclusioo or termina- 
tion of the interview. 

Q Had you previous to that time talked with the accused, 

Willie Prevost, Sr.? 
A I had. 

Q, State to the Court whether or not in the course of that 
conversation with the accused, Vifillie Prevost, Sr. you 
had occasion to make any reference to Article of War 24? 

A Yes, sir; I did. At the time I talked to Prevost some 
several days before Col. Williams talked to him, I 
read him the 2A.th Article of War. After I read it to 
him I explained it to him the best I could in detail. 

Q, Did he or not s'ate he understood it? 
A He stated he did understand it. . 

Trial Judge Advocate: Will you mark this as Prosecution 
exhibit for identification? 

(The document above referred to was marked Prosecution 
Exhibit 35 for identification.) 

Q, Vifill you examine this document which has been marked 
Prosecution Exhibit 35 for identification and state 
whether or not that is the instrument the accused Viillie 
Prevost delivered? 

A Yes. 

Q, Do you have any marks on it for identification there? 
A I have ny two initials and the date, September 30, 194A-. 

Q Those marks are in your own handvvriting? 

A They are. Placed there immediately after the document 

819 



was delivered to me by Willie Prevost. 

Trial Judge Ad-w^ocate: I now offer in evidence the 
instrument which has just been identified as Prosecution 
Exhibit 35 for identification, and I am offering it only 
against the accused, Willie Prevost, Sr. 

Law Member: Ilajor, on the issue of whether or not 
this statement was voluntary, do you wish to cross-examine 
Maj. Manchester at this time? 

Defense: Yes, I would like to, if the Court please. 

CROSS EXAMINATION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Maj. Manchester, what day was it you took the state- 
ment from Prevost? 
A The day that I took the statement? 

Q Yes, or the day that the statement was taken you were 

talking about? 
A The day that Col. Vi?illiams took the statement was 

September 30, 1944. 

Q, In this the statement that Vi/as taken. Prosecution 

Exhibit 35 for identification, is the one, did you take 
that? 

A No, sir. 

Q, What date was that taken. 

A 30th of September. It is on the top of it. 

Q What day were you appointed investigating officer in 

this case? 
A 15th of August, 1944. 

Q, And on the 30th of September, you were also acting as 

investigating officer? 
A No, sir; I was not. I was assigned to assist Col. 

Williams from the 13th of September on through. 

Q I mean what date were you appointed Investigating Offi- 
cer under 70th Article of War? 

A Without referring to the records, I cannot give you the 
time or the date. However, it was not the 30th of 
September. 

Q, I would like to have that date. Do you have anything 

with you so you can give it to me? 
A I do not, no. 

Defense: Do you knov; the date, counsel? 

Trial Judge Advocate: No, I surely don't. 

President: Isn't a copy of the record referred to you? 

820 



Trial Jiidge Advocate: That would show It, llo, 
because it v/ould be a letter appointing him, hut it may be 
v/e have a copy of that letter. 

President: It Is very often that i- is retained with 
the Charge si 

The Witness: I do not have it, the date. Major, However, 
I would say, and this is a guess that it was about the 28th 
of October, I am trying to estimate that vv'ith this time, 
the date that the Charges were filed. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I have something here. 

Defense: The Order which Col, Jaworski has just shown 
me indicates it is on or about October 27th. 

Trial Judge Advocate: We will so stipulate if he v;ants 
to. 

Defense: Well, I am satisfied insofar as the v/itness 
is concerned. This might at a later date develop, I v/ill 
have to know the oxtict date so at present I don't want to 
stipulate, 

Lavj Member: At the present, then on or about October 
27th satisfies you? 

Defense: Yes, Later on, it nay be v/e v;ill develop the 
exact date. 



Q Now- later, as Investigating Officer, you 

to talk to Willie Provost, didn't you? 
A Yes, sir; I did. 



had occasion 



Q, And that was pursuant to your duties as Investigating 

Officer under the 70th Article of War? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q, Did Prevost nrike any statement to you at that time? 
A Ho did not, 

Q, Did you at that time call his attention to any previous 

statement he had made? 
A Not that I recall. 

Q Well, Major, v/ho was in the room at the time Prevost 

was in there with Col, Jav/orski and yourself? 
A I believe no one other than us tliree, 

Q Just Col, Jav/orski, yourself, and Prevost? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q, No' stenographer present at that time? 
A No, sir, there wasn't, 

Q, Now I v;ish you would relate the conversation that you 

had there, or that Col, Jaworski had, insofar as it re- 
lated to the accused's rights at that time? 

821 



A As I previously testified. Col. Jaworski told the 

accused that he understood and realized that he did 
not have to make the statement; that the statement 
ho had just made or had just written was assumed to 
be the truth; that he could promise him nothing for 
making it. And that it v/aa made of his ovm volition 
or ovm accord. 

Q VJhat words did he use; did he use the word "volition"? 
A No, sir; he didn't. 

Q V/oll, l>-t's g^t the exact words, let's get it as near 

as we can, 
A It is impossible for me to remember exactly. 

Q Did he road to him the 24th Article of V/ar prior to 

that time? 
A No, sir. 

Q He didn't read that to him at that time? 
A Not in my presence, no, sir, 

Q And that, what you have just related is all that Col. 

Jaworski, said to Prevost, preliminary to reading or 

writing his statement? 
A Other than asking him if he understood that he did not 

have to make the statement, at which time Prijvost said 

he understood ho did not have to make it, 

Q Did you yourself supplement the matter with any questions 

or anything? 
A I don't believe I did. In fact, I am certain I didn't. 

Dofenso: That is all the questions I have, 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION 
Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: ' , 

Q Major Manchester, the warning and explanation you tes- 
tified to the Court you had given, the one that you 
gave, that was given prior or after the time that this 
written statement in his own handwriting was made? 

A It was several days before, sir. 

Q Well, by that I mean, what character of explanation or 
warning was that you gave? 

A It v/as at the time that I took his statement from the 
accused, Willie Prevost. I read him the 24th Article 
of War; read it to him, word for word, and then I went 
into an explanation of the contents of it, and about 
his rights under that particular Article of War. 

Q And you say that was a few days before? 

A Several days before, sir, 

822 



Q Str.te whether or not the day on v/hlch this stateraent 

that has been offered in evidence of Willie Prevost, Sr., 
v/hether, during the course of the interview that some 
day Col. Williams m^as present and had talked v/ith 
V/illie Prevost, Sr? 

A Yes, sir; he v/as. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all. 

RECROSS EXAMNATION 
Questions by Defenses 

Q Maj» Manchester, these number of conversations and 

interviev/s you were having v/ith Prevost v;hen several of 
you 7/ere throv/ing questions at him all the time, there 
were several occasions? 

A If the question is addressed to me, I will say that is 
not correct. 

Q I'Yere you attempting to ply him. with questions and in- 
vestigating and 30 forth on succeeding days and trying 
to wear the witness do^OTi? 

A No, sir; on the contrary, I think If it ws.s anybody 

that v/as getting worn down or worn out it was the in- 
vestigators, 

(I Was that the reason you kept supplementing the investi- 

gators from time to time? 

A We could have used more, sir, 

Q Of course, in all of these matter, you previously 

testified you were desirous and anxious of obtaining 
some kind of a written statement? 

A Absolutely, yes, sir, 

Q Nov/, you stated that several days previously you had 
explained to him the meaning of the 24th Article of 
War. Just exactly, as near as you can recall, what 
v/ords did you use in explaining that to him? 

A I first read to him the 24th Article of War as I have 

so testified. Attempting to comply v/ith your question, 
or your request, and state that, I v/ill state that I 
asked him if he understood that he could not be com- 
pelled to make a statement. That as far as the room 
we were interviewing him in at that time, v/hich i./as an 
open room v/ith seven or eight witnesses in It, and 

stenographers, that if he did not desire to answer 

any questions he wr s at liberty to leave the room. 
There would be no insubordination on his part if he 
desired to leave the room. But for the time being, 
and for that particular purpose, before he was being 
questioned, he vras read the 24th Article of War; we 
also made him understand that then he was the top 
mo.n in the room and he was the person who said whether 
or not they would be \7illing to testif^r. There v/ould 
be no force, or no duress, and nothing done to persuade 
him to give his statement or make a statement. That 

823 



Is tho sun and substance of It. 

Q Now, after you wcro appointed. Investigating Officer, 
you were appointed to intorviev/ him again under tho 
70th Article of War? 

A Yes. I intcrviov/od him under the 70th Article of IVar, 
not individually, but with another group. . : , 

Q, Did you again at that time explain to him his rights 

under tho 24th Article of V/ar? 
A At that tine I did not read tho 24th Article of War, 

Q, You did not do that; did you make any explanation of 

his rights under it? 
A I don't recall mentioning the 24th Article of War oi' 

the contents of it to him in the course of tho pre-trial 

investigation. 

Q Yes. Well, lot us omit the 24th i^rticle of War, any 
roforence to it by name or title. Did you explain to 
him at any time when you were interrogating him as 
Investigating Officer what his rights as an accused 
were? 

A You are still referring to the AW70 Investigation, 
are you not, sir? 

Q, That is right. Major. 
A Ho, sir; I did not. 

Q By the way, Y/hat was your civilian occupation before you 

entered the Army? 
A I was a police officer, 

Q \'iniere? 

A California, 

Q Wliat city? 
A Long Beach. 

Q, And how long had you been a police officer? . : 
A Oh, eighteen years, and some months, 

Q Was that as a detective? 
A That's right. 

Defense: I think I have no further questions of this man, 

Trial Judge Advocate: We have no further questions, if 
it please the Court. 

Law I.Iember: I shall remind the members of the Court 
that it appears from the testimony of Maj. Manchester that the 
accused was asked questions o.nd wrote out a statement in his 
handwriting v/hen his superior officers were present. It, 
therefore, under the Ilanual of Courts Martial becomes our 
right and duty to make such inquiry surrounding his statement 
as we see fit. With that in view, are there any questions 
by any members of the Court? 

824 



EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 
Questions by the Law Member: 

Q Major, in your' investigation, pursuant to the 70th 
Article of War, you state that you did not in any 
way mention the' 24th Article of Vifar, or its contents? 

A That is correct, yes, 

Q Was that made subsequent to the Prosecution Exhibit 
for identification No 35; that paper dov;n on the 
Major's desk? 

A It was. I was trying to get the dates In my mind, 

Q What was that answer? 

(Last answer read back. ) 

Q Was that after the 30th of September? 

A The 30th of September is the date the statement was' 

taken and about the 28th of October, I believe, sir, 

is the date of pre-trial investigation, 

Q, So that Prosecution Exhibit 35 for identification v/as 
made out and signed by this accused prior to your in- 
vestigation' under the 70th Article of War? 

A It was; yes, sir, - ., 

Q Now, the conversation vv'hich you have related between 

Col, Jaworski and the accused, did that take place after 
the statement had been written out or before? 

A After the statement hotd been written, sir. The part 

that I related? 

Q That's right. Now, prior to that specific time in 
another room, was there any conversation with the 
accused? 

A There was a conversation, yes, sir, 

Q And were you present at that conversation? • 
A I was, yes, sir, 

Q And who else was present? 

A Lt,Col, Williams, Col, Jaworski, Capt, Tyson, and, 
I believe, Capt, Branand, 

Q And, at that time, did a conversation take place between 

Col; Williams and Provost? . 

A Yes, sir; it did, 

Q Will you state to the Court what that conversation was? 

A Col, Williams asked the accused, Prevost, If what ho had 
told them, which had been taken in the- statement form^ 
was the truth. Prevent replied thai; :.t was Col, Williams 
asked him if ho had a:iy objection to writing a synopsis 
of the contents- uf his previous given statement in his 
own handwriting, and the accused stated that he did not, 

825 



He immediately thereafter was furnished 7/lth a 
pencil and paper and sent in to another room, 

Q, Now, prior to this examination of the accused, Prevost, 
by Col. Williams, v;as there any conversation between 
Col. Y/illiams and the accused? 

A Prior to the statement I have just related, sir? 

Q, Yes. 

A I can only say that they were in the room, torether, 

I was not in the room at that tine, sir, "during the 

taking of the statement. 

Q Then you v/ere in the room only just prior to the time 
Prevost went out to write out the statement in his own 
handv/riting? 

A That is correct, sir. 

Q, ^Vas anybody in this second room with Willie Prevost while 

he was writing out this statement, to 7/our knowledge? 
A Not to m.y knov/ledge, no, sir, 

Q Did you at any time hear Col. Williams or Col. Jaworskl 
advise the accused Prevost that the statement could 
or would be used against him? 

A No, sir, I did not. 

Trial Judge Advocate: May I ask a question? 

RECROSS EXAI'IINATION 
Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Major, the Law Member asked you about the remarks that 
I made to the accused, Willie Prevost. Now, with 
respect to the time that he delivered this written 
statement, the statement in his ov/n handwriting, with 
respect to that time, when were those remarks made by 
me? 

A Just before the accused signed his name and serial nvaa- 
ber to the statement. • 

Q And, of course, tlie report was delivered then? 
A Yes, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right, that is all. 

Law Member: Major Beolis, have you any evidence you vrlsh 
to offer on this issu.e of the taking of this , statement? 

Defense: I v.'ould iika to have a fe* ?ninutes to con- 
fer with the accused, Prevost, 

Lav/ Member: You r.riy have. , ^ 

President: The Court will take a 15-mlnute recess at 
this time. The remaining of the accused will file out and 
the accused v;ill remain here with his counsel, and the court 

826 



room will bo clcarod. 

(At this point a IS-minuto rocoss was taken after v;hlch 
proceedings wore rosunod as follows:) 

Prosidcnt: Is tho i^rosocution ready? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Is the Defense ready? 

Defense: Defense is ready, sir. 

President: Court will come to order. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record shov/ that all of 
the accused arc present, that all mombGrs of the Court are 
present, and that the personnel representing the accused as 
well as the personnel representing the Prosecution are also 
present. ■. 

Defense: The accused. Provost, desires to take the 
v/itnoss stand, if the Court please. 

Law Member: Colonel, have you any other evidence first, 
to offer on this at this time? 

Trial Judge Advocate: V/oll, not at the present tine. 

Law Member: All right. Provost, under the Manual for 
Courts Martial, and in Military trials, an accused has certain 
rights as a witness. He may be sworn as a witness just like 
any other v/itnoss. Ho may take the oath and testify concern- 
ing the facts in the case. If ho does so take the stand and 
is s\7orn as a witness ho may be cross-examined the same as any 
other witness by the Trial Judge Advocate or by the individual 
members of tho Court. The witness, also, may make an unsworn 
statement to bo read here by either him or by his counsel. 
In such case, the accused cannot bo cross-examined about any- 
thing in that unsworn statement. It is not, strictly, evi- 
dence, but will bo given such consideration by the members of 
the Court as they sec fit. 

Also, you may submit an unsworn statement, either written 
or oral, or given by your counsel, and then, the accused has a 
third right and that is to remain absolutely silent and make 
no statements either sworn or unsv/orn. If he docs so wish to 
remain silent tho fact that ho does so remain silent cannot 
be used against him. 

In this case, at this tine, there is an issue as to whether 
you voluntarily signed a statement, which is now marked Proso- 

827 



cntion Exhibit 3'^ for identification. ^^oi^ have s ri^rht 
to be rr/orn n? p '^'itnese on tl-?t one qiiestlon pnd you 
cp.n be cross-exanined b^^ the Trir.3. Jwlr^e Advocrte, or 
b-' the nembern of the court on thrt one question. ITo"/, 
did 70U tall: to your con.nsel diirinr the Irrt recess 
and tnlh thi? pubject over ^-rith hin? 

Pr. PrG^•ost: Yes, sii'. 

Lav Menber: And do '^o^^ elect on tie question of tl is 
statement onl;^' to be s^orn as a witness? 

Pr Prevost: "'^es, sir. 

Law Member; All ri-rht, Col. Jawors?:! , -ill yo^^ swear 
him? 

Trial Judre A^ivocate: ^^''es, sir, 

v/illie Prf^Arost, Sr., T/'=', a witness called b;'^ the 
Defense, was sworn and testified as followp: 

Defense; It is further ^^nderstood tl-e witness is takin'T 
the witness s+-.and for the same nnr^ose r^s the previous 
testimon". 

La^'' Member: There isn't any question or dou.bt abont 
th-^t Jvior'. There ^-'ill be no questions asked of this ^''it- 
ness' outside of the one iss^ie as to whether or not Prosec^ition 
Exl'^bit 3"^ is "I'olT'nt'^r""' or involnntar'^'. 

Tri^l Jud-e A'-'-^'Ocatc: Strte ^'o^r name? 

The 'Vitness: T/!^, '-'illie Pre^^ost, Sr. 

Trial Judre A^'woeate: ^^or.r rrnl: is Technician and, 
vour Grnde is Private First Class. 

The'Titnesr: ""^cs, sir. 

Trial Juj.lre Advocate; ^'^nr or.-^ani-ation? 

The vfitness; It '-'as *^^'^Oth Port Comnan^^. 

Trial Jud'-c Advocate: ^^our St-tlon? 

The 'Titness: Fort L^wton. 

Trial Judf^e Advocpte; ^^ou are one of the accused in 
this case? 

The T7i t n e s s : "^''g s , s -^ r . 

Law Member: Talk ■'"'■n l-wder so we can hear ^^o^i. 

DIRECT EXAimifTIOr 

r 

Questions by Defense: 

828 



Q, How old are you, Prevost? 
A Twenty- eight. 

Q, How much education have you had? 
A Eighth grade. 

Q Eighth grade? 
A Yes. 

Q Now, you heard the testimony of Maj. Manchester with 
respect to a day when you made a written statement 
which is Prosecution Exhibit 35 for identification? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Do you recall that day? 
A No, sir. 

Q Well, you recall the time that Ma J, Manchester was 

talking about? 
A About my statement? 

Q Yes. 

A Yes, sir. 

Q You recall that? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q When was that? 

A Around the 14th of September, 14th or 15th of September* 

Q, That was up in MaJ . Manchester's office? 
A Yes, sir; I believe it was. 

Q Do you recall who was present at that time? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q, Who? 

A I recall Maj. Manchester was there, and the Colonel 
that just came up here before him. 

Q Col. Williams? 

A Well, I don't know, yes. And the stenographer. 

A fellow sitting down at the desk taking notes. 

Q Was he in the Military Service? 

A To the best of my knowledge and recollection he was a 
civilian. 

Q, Was Col. Jaworski there? 

A I don't remember seeing him, 

Q I wish you would tell the Court just what was said to 
you by either Col. Williams or Maj. Manchester, or 
both of them prior to the time you wrote out the 
exhibit. Prosecution Exhibit 35 for identification? 

A Prior to the time I wrote out that statement there, 

there didn't anyone speak to me except Col, Williams. 

829 



Q, "What did Col. Williams say to you? 

A He spoke to me that morning around 11:00 o'clock, 

from 11:00 to 12:00 o'clock, up to noon-time. Then 
the first statement I gave him, why he told me the 
Court wouldn't "believe that statement and then further, 

he asked in my statement, he said that I had seen 

a man chopping on that door and he said that I saw 
that. I didn't knoxu who that was, and he told me 
I had admitted that he chopped the door down and he 

asked me why, whether, when I am there at the time 

he was chopping the door down, and I knowed the man, 
why I wouldn't say, 

Q, (interposing) Well, don't go into the whole substance 
of the statement Prevost, but just tell the Court what 
was said to you prior to the time that you wrote the 
statement, which is Prosecution Exhibit 35. 

A Oh, you mean what was said? 

Q, Yes. 

A After he got through, after he got through talking 

to me I come to the outside and then Maj. Manchester 
came up to me and asked me, would I write a statement? 
and I told him, yes, sir. 

Q, And did anyone tell you whether or not you had to? 
A No, sir; they didn't. 

Q, They didn't toll you that at all? 
A No, sir. 

Q, State whether or not anyone told you that if you did 

write a statement that anything you said might be used 
against you? 

A No, sir; they did not, 

Q Did anyone at any time mention the 24th Article of War 

to you? 
A Not on that questioning. 

Q, Not on that questioning? 
A No, sir. 

Q, Well, at any previous time, did anyone make mention 

of the 24th Article of War? • 
A I don't remember. 

Q, You don't remember that? 

A No, sir. But I do remember one thing. I remember 

him saying to me that I didn't have to testify and make 

this statement. 

Q, Somebody said you did not have to testify or make 

any statement? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Who was that? 

A It was a civilian FBI man. 

830 



Q Do you know v/liGthor he ^vas an ?3I nan? 

A Eo was in civilian clothos, 

Q, VjoII, sono man in civilian clothes told you that you 

did not have to riako a statomont? 
A That's right. 

Q You don't knovif v/hothor that was an 731 man or not, 

though? 
A ITo, sir, I don't know. I thought he was. 

Q, Ucll, is that on this sa;;ic day that you v;rote out this 
written statemont v;hich is Prosecution Zxliihit 35 that 
you wore told that? 

A ITo, sir; that v/as the first tine I went dovjn there. 



n 



V/as that all that was said to you, or v/as something 
else said? 

A lie, sir; that wasn't all. As I stated in tho testimony, 
he said, — he throw tho ro^jo in my lap so I could soo 
it, and hij said I could have hung that man. 

Q T/lio was it said that? 

A A man in civilian clothes. 

Q, Have ypu seen that man since then? 

ntvi you* soon him in the court room since the trial 

started? 

IIo, sir. 



■-V 



C, V/ould ■',-ou Imov; his name if you hoard it? 



lIo, sir; 1 would know his face. 



Q Uell, was there an officer present at the time? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q, ^;ho was present? 

A I don't recall the officer that was present. 

Q There was an officer present? 
A Yes. 

Q V/as there anyone else in the :alitary Service present? 
A Yes, sir; a Sergeant, ho is back hero, sitting hack 
there now. 

Q You say a Sergeant xilio is setting in the back row in the 

court room now? 
A Yos, sir. But he said, "I'll know more about the case 

V7hen they put t.iat rope around my damn neck." 

Law ::ember: Just a minute. \.hat was that? 

The V/itnoss: he caidi I v/ouldi know more about tlio case 
when they put t::,at rope around my damn nock. They tl:iro\;ed 
it in ray lap. 

331 



x^rosidont: You better have the Ser,n-eant removed 
from the court roon. 

(Sergeant in question loft the roon) 

Defense: I do v/ant the record to show now that he has been 
sitting in the court roora during the trial of this case, and 
that IS the very thing I objected to at the bep-inninr of 
this trial. 

Trial Judge Advocate: 

That is a complete surprise and 
nobody could p)0S3ibly know that this v/as going to happen. 

Law Member: That is so. I have seen him sitting 

around here every day but I don't see how it could have 

been anticipated that ho was going to be an expectant 
witness. 

Trial Judge Advocate: V/o certainly did not exooct 
anything like that and had not intended, 

Law Ilember: ITo, I don't see how it could have been 
anticipated then. 

Q V/as there anything else said? 

A Later, they got through questioning no, and I came 
on the outside of that roora. Then he v;alked uo to 
no and said, "Well, I hate to see you get messed up 
like that, because there is an Italian has already 
Identified you and they'll take his word, and if you 
don't admt the thing, his word will bo used against 
. you in court in a case," and so he says, "You better 
go in there and change those statenonts. " 

^ \'Iho v/as it made that remark? 
A That same Sergeant back there. 

Q And that was all prior to your v/ritinn- out Prosecution 

Exliibit 35? 
A Yes, air; that day. 

Q Now, on tlie day that you wrote Prosecution Exhibit 35 

for identification, to i/hora did you hand the statgnont, 
after you had completed v/riting it? 

A The statement that I wrote there v/crc given to Ilaj. 

Lanchoster. He wallxd into tl:c room where I was writing 
it, and he received the statement th.ro. He 
was the only one there. 



•it 



A 



Had you signed the statement before you handed it to 
him? 

It was signed before he came in. Kc told me to v/ritc 
the statement anrl hand it to him. 



Q How, I don't v/ant you to go into any discussion with 
reference to the truth or falsity of anything in the 
statement at tbis time. 3ut I do want you to toll the 
A Yes, sir. 



832 



Q And who made that attempt? 
A Col, V'illlains, 

Q ¥rhat did he say to you? 

A He told rao that the Court \\ould not accept that state- 
ment that I gave niin, and he said, "He v/ould like to 
believe it." He said, "Although he believed tnat I 
didn't take no part in the riot," and he sa^/-, "He 
believed my statement -A-as truer of all," but the 
felloT/,- on the door said I knev who that fellov- vas 
choppin;j, and ne ^aid if I wouli tell hlin vrao that 
fellovv's Ucciie .-:-s tnere, if I f.;ould make a statement, 

Q (interposing) V'nat do you mean by tht fello-., v;ho 

are you referring to, or ^..hat? 
A He claimed I knowed the fello-.'L- nauie that v/as chopping 

the door do-.n in thero. He talkei to me that morning 

and also that evening tr^'-ing to gjt me to r.dmit aio 

it v/as . 

Q Did he t^li you v.no it ,as in attempting to get you to 

make an ans ^er? 
A Yes, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: T'loiv , if th .- Court please, if 
that relates to someone else it vrouid not be or nave any 
bearing on tnj.s isouo. 

La'/ Member: I lon't tiiink it is in this issue. 

Defense: Doesn't it all jo te the question of v.hether 
or not there was an attemj-t to make him cnange his statement? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Not as to i nat he said himself. 
He is talking about an entirely'- different person, talking 
about v>hat someone else said. 

Defense: I am tai"^^lng about what Col. '"illiaras said to 
him about a man cnopping the door dov.n. 

Trial Judge Aivccate; "ut it is ail of another man. 

Defense: Yes, but it is all a part of this statement 
which he was att-jinptJiig to nave him cn.-^xige. He says, ""^ou 
know who that man •■/a;:.," and tried to get him to change 
the statement. 

Law Member: '.'ell, I t^iinl. tnat io enou;^n, isn't it? 

Defense: I t.tinir. v.e have a right to inquire no\. into 
the entire transact-ion. 

Law Member: !Jct an isbue at tnis time. It is not an 
issue at tnx^ time., 

Q No'v, frevost, tell tae court \netnjr or not anyone at 
any time advised you as to v.nether any statement you 
made might be us el against you? 

A No, sir, there v/asn't. 

833 



Q Tell the Court v/hether or not you v/ould have made a 
written statement had you been advised that it would 
■ be used against you? 

A Well, if I had been told that the statement would have 
been used against me, I v/ouldn't have v;rote it. 

Defense: You may examine. 

Trial Judge Advocate: You have that statement? 

Defense: Yes (handing document to Trial Judge Advocate). 

CR0SS-3XAMINATI0N 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Corporal, I v/ant you to think real hard about these 

questions I am going to ask you. Did you ever see me 
before this trial started? 

A I don't recall seeing you. 

Q You don't recall it? ' " 

A No, sir. - ' 

Q Well, are you positive that you have not seen me before 

this trial started? 
A I don't say I could not have, but 1 don't .vecall seeing 

you. 

Q You are not certain about it? 

A No, sir; I don't recall seeing you. 

Q Is there anything that suggests itself to you about 

your having seen me before? 
A The only thing I can say is I'm not sure of seeing you 

before. I won't say that you were the person, and I 

won't say you were, but I am not sure. 

Q Do you think you sav/ me before? 
A I don't think so. 

Q You don't associate me at all in connection with this 

written statement made, do you? 
A The day I wrote that statement I don't remember seeing 

you that day. 

Q Do you remember seeing me at all? 
A No, sir. 

Q You v/ere rather anxious to write a statem.ent, weren't 

you? 
A No, sir; I wasn't anxious to v/rite it, but Maj. Manchester 

asked me to v/rite the statement, and I told him, yes. 

<^ Didn't I come in and talk with you just before you de- 
livered this statement? 

A I remember one person coming in with Eaj. i:anchoster 
before I delivered, it. 

834 



/~ . 



Q But you don't remember seeing me there? 
A No, sir. 

Q, Do you remember anybody coming in besides Maj. Manchester? 
A That is all I remember* 

Q, Who was present v/hen you wrote out this statement? 

A I was in the room all by myself. I was through a 

door in a little room, facing a bigger room, the opposite 
room from where I v/as questioned, by myself, 

Q And is that the place where you delivered this state- 
ment to Maj. Manchester? 

A When he received the statement he came in that little 
room where I were and he received the statement from 
me. 

Q What did he say v/hen he recd'ived the statement? 
A He asked me if I Y/ore finished, and I said I were 
through. 

Q What else? 

A I don't remember anything else. Then he received the 
statement from me and asked mo if I were through. 

Q You don't remember anything else being said by anyone 

else at that time? 
A No, sir; I don't. 

Q When was the first time after this riot occurred that 

you were interviewed by anyone? 
A After the riot? 

Q Yes. 

A V/ell, it v/as some time about the last part of August 
or the first part of September. 

Q To be exact, v/asn't It about the 5th of September. 
A Well, I don't knov/ exact. It was around the first 
part. 

Q That sound about right, doesn't it, the 5th of 

September? 
A That is as close as I can remember. ' ' 

Q You were in the stockade, then? 
A Yes, I was. 

Q And you were brought to the Goodrich Building, weren't 

you? 
A Goodrich Building? 

Q Dov/n at the Port of Embarkation? 

A When I was questioned I was brought down to the Port. 



Q 



Yes. Now, let us talk about this first questioning. 
Who was present at this first questioning? 



835 



A Sergeant Young, and there v/as stout FBI man, and a 
kind of a slender FBI man. 

Q This FBI man you keep on talking about, you are talk- 
ing about someone who v;as in civilian clothes? 
A Yes. 

Q You don't knov/ whether he was an FBI man or not? 
A No, sir. 

Q y/ho do you keep calling him an FBI man, then, why 

don't you call him a civilian? 
A Well, a civilian, then. There were two civilians. 

There was three others, altogether, I can remember 

three. 

Q Three others; two civilians and Sergeant Young; 
A Yes. 

Q And who else v;as present? 
A One or two ladies. 

Q One or tv/o ladies. And v/ho else v/as present? 
A One officer, I think, that I can remember. 

Q Who was that officer? 

A I don't kno¥; v/ho he was, I don't recall hie name. 

Q Do you remember his rank? 

A No, sir; I didn't pay any attention to that. 

Q You don't remember his face? 
A No, sir. 

Q Could you give us any description? 
A I don't remember his name. 

Q As a matter of fact, that officer was Eaj. Manchester, 

wasn't it? 
A I don't knov/. 

Q It could have been Faj. Manchester, couldn't it? 
A Yes, maybe. 

Q At that time, the first thing that was done. Article 
of War 24 v/as read and explained to you, now, vmsn't 
it? 

A I don't remember. :. 

Q Beg your pardon? 

A I don't recall. I don't recall it. 

4 Well, you are not saying it was not read and explained 

to you? 
A No, sir. I am not saying it was and I am not saying it 

was not. 

Q You are not saying it was and youi^rc ^O't saying it 

836 



wasn't? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q So that's the time you say someone pulled out a rope and 

threw it in yotir lap and threatened you with it; 
A I don't say it Y/as that time. 

Q, It v/as on this occasion, on that same day? 
A Yes, sir, that same day. 

Q Who threw that rope in your lap? 
A A civilian. 

Q What vms this civilian's name? 
A I don't know his name. 

Q Wall, tell us what he looked like; describe him. 

A . He was ahout, he was about the Major's size, probably 

just an inch or tv/o taller. 

Q Well, Is he an inch or two broader, too? 
A Well, he v;as pretty broad, too. I vi/ouldn't say broader, 
but about his size. 

Q About his size. But an inch or two taller? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q So is that all the description you can give? 
A He v/as a settled man. 

Q A what? 

Law Member: What ims that? 

A A settled man, around about forty, forty-five years old. 

(^ Well, there are lots of them that age that are not 
settled? But that is the best description you can 
give us, about forty to forty-five years of age, and 
that ho is a settled man? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, this settled man v/ho is forty to forty-fivo throw 

this ropo in your lap, you say? 
A Yes, sir; he did. 

Q And did he ask you if you had seen that ropo before? 
A He asked me that, too. 

Q What did you say? 
A I told him, no, sir. 

Q What did you do? 

A I didn't do anything. Ho told me, ho said he could lay 
tho hanging on mo, I could lay the hanging on you." 

q, What did you tell him about that? 

837 



A I told him, "No, sir, he couldn't." 

Q After that, after you told him, he couldn't do it, 

was he satisfied? 
A Was he satisfied? 

Q Yes, this settled man, you say, was he satisfied after 

you told him he couldn't hang it on you? . . 

A I guess he was. 

Q You guess he was? 
A Yes. 

Q And that ended the roDe incident? 
A Yes. 

Q What v;as it that Sergeant Young saidT 

A He said I Virould knov; more about the case when they, that 
rope v;as around my damn nsck. 

Q, Well, that v/ould he about the time when you v/ouldn't 

know about it, wouldn't it? 
A It sure v/ould. 

Q Did you tell him that? 

A I didn't tell him anything. 

Q You say that Sergeant Young said you v/ould knov/ more 
about the case v/hen you were hanging by the neck by 
that rope? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Did he say anything else to you about a rope? 

A No, sir. Later on, after this, I came on to the outside 
of that room, and that's where he told me I should 
change my statement because there v/ere an Italian 
had already identified me. 

Q, He told you that there were an Italian had already 

identified you? 
A And to change my statement, because he said if I didn't 

they would take his v/ord against mine. 

Q That they v/ould take his word, the Italian's vjord against 

yours? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Did he say anything else? 

A Well, he said he v/ould hate to see me get messed up. 

Q He said he v/ould hate to see you get messed up. Well, 
he had just got through telling you that you vi/ere apt 
to be hanging by the neck from a rope? 

A Yes, sir, he also made that statement. 

Q But he also said ho would hate to see you get messed 

up? 
A Yes. 

838 



Q Is that all Sergeant Young told you? 
A That is all I heard from him. 

Q Wow, v/ho else made threatening statements to you besides 
Sergeant Young and this settled man about forty to forty- 
five years of age? 

A Well, Colonel, Col. Williams. 

Q Oh, Col. Williams did too? 
A Why, yes. 

Q Well, what did Col. Williams tell you? 
A Col. Williams told me, the first statem.ent I gave, he 
said the court wouldn't accept it. 

Q He wouldn't accept it, or the court wouldn't accept it? 
A He said the Court wouldn't accept it. 

Q All right. 

A And he just kept on talking and pressing me, 

Q (interposing) Talking and what? 

A Pressing, pressing me with words until he got me to ad- 
mit that rocks v/as thrown in the Italian area at the 
time I went dovm there, v/hich there wasn't. 

Defense • Did you say v^ouldn't or wasn't? 

A (continuing) There virasn't any rocks thrown at the time 
I v/as gone dovm there. 

Q There wasn't? 

A No. And he also tried to get me to admit who the 

man was, he said, I knew who the man was chopping off 
the door with the axe. And he also said the man 
had admitted, — -well, he also said, you know it, he 
said, there is no use your saying anything else. 

Q And you said something about Col. Williams having 
threatened you. You haven't yet told me anything 
relating to a threat. Tell me hov/ Col, Williams 
threatened you? 

A Threatened? 

Q Yes, threatened you, how did he threaten you? 

A He wouldn't accept the first statement I gave him. 

Q Well, then, he didn't threaten you in any v/ay? 
A What do you mean, threaten? 

Q Well, did he tell you that anything v/as going to harm 
you, or any ill v/as coming to you, or anything happen 
to you if you didn't do that? 

A No, he just said the Court wasn't going to accept the 
statement and he believed the statement so far, he 
said the only thing, he didn't believe v/as, I knew 
the man that hit the axe on the door. 

839 



Q He didn't threaten you in any way though then, did 

he? , , 

A I don't guess he did. 

Q I beg your pardon? 
A I don't guess he did, 

Q You don't guess he did. Well, aren't you sure he didn't? 
A I don't see any threats about that. 

Q No. Well, you don't knov; of any threats then that 

Col. Williams made? 
A No, not to my knowledge. 

Q All right. Now, after Col. Williams finished talking 
with you, vifhat, if anything, happened? 

A After Col. Williams had talked with rae? Well, he dis- 
missed me. 

Q Where did you go after you were dismissed? 

A I went out to the big room and I started reading a book 
laying on the desk there, and Maj. Manchester came 
up to me and asked me, would I write a statement, 
and I would, yes, sir, and I signed my name to it. 

Q All right, now. Let's see if this didn't happen. On 
or about September 5, 1944, around 9^45 a.m., you 
were brought to the Port of Embarkation and were 
questioned. Does that sound about right? 

A On my first questioning? 

Q Yes. 

A I guess it was. 

Q All right. And then after you were questioned for 

about thirty minutes, you were told that the question- 
ing was through, isn't that correct? 

A Yes. 

Q Nov;, after you v/ere told the questioning was through, 
didn't you then say that you wanted to change your 
statement; weren't you the one that said you v/anted 
to change your statement? 

A After Sergeant Young told me that. After he made 
the statement and I came back out, then he told me 
that, and they v/anted to get me to change my state- 
ment. 

Q How did he get you to change your statem.ent? .^. 
A As I said before. 

Q You mean some Italian had identified you and if you 
didn't change your statement they would take his 
word against yours? 

A That's right, because they were going to use his 
v/ord against mine. 

Ql That is what caused you to change your statement? 

840 



A That's what caused me to change my statement. 

Q, At the time this rope was thrown in your lap, you 

did not make any statement? 
A There wasn't any statement I could make. 

Q You didn't admit anything at that time? 
A Admit what? 

Q Anything that you did? 

A I didn't say anything v;hen they threv; a rope in my lap, 
I couldn't say anything. 

Q Well, you v^ere dismissed, but you had not made any 

statement about what you had said during that question- 
ing and, — - 

A (interposing) That's right. 

Q And then you were dismissed, and after that time you 

said you v/anted to change your statement? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q And that is when you came in and you made an entirely 

different statement, didn't you? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q All right, now. When that was over with, -—that took 

about hov/ long, that took about tv/enty or thirty minutes, 
didn't it? 

A Thirty minutes is about right. . ' 

Q All right, i^d who questioned you that second time? 
A I don't recall. 

Q You don't recall v/ho questioned you the second time? 
A No, sir. 

Q Well, wasn't it Maj. Manchester, too? 
A I don't knov/. 

Q You don't recall? 
A I don't recall. 

Q, And then you were not questioned an^/ more after 

that until after Col. Williams? 
A I was not questioned any more at all. 

Q That's right. Until Col. Williams called you in and 

questioned you? 
A That's right, yes, sir. 

Q Nov/, at the timie Col. Williams called you in, the 

24th Article of War, v;as again read and explained to 
you then? 

A No, sir; it v/asn't explained to me then. 

Q You mean Col. Williams just started off asking you 

questions v;ithout reading you the 24th Article of War? 

841 



A I don't recall it. ^ . 

Q You mean to say he started off asking you questions 

without reading to you the 24th. Article of War? 
A I don't recall it. 

Q You vjould not say it wasn't explained to you at that 

time? 
A I don't remember it. 

Q You just don't remember It? 
A Wo, sir. 

Q, Now, at the time Col* 'Williams questioned you, did you 
give Col. Williams the same statement that you had 
given Ma J. Manchester, or you had given previously 
when you came in and said you v;anted to change your 
statement? 

A The statement v/as all true except as to the rocks 
thrown on the barracks. 

Q But otherwise you did give the same statement as you 
had given once before when you said you wanted to 
change your statement? 

A That's right. - ■ 

Q Hov; long did Col» Williams question you? 

A He ques tioned me about thirty-five m.inutes that morn- 
ing and I came back that evening, and he questioned 
me some more. 

Q That afternoon? 

A Yes. He wasn't satisfied with the first questioning. 

Q Well, now, isn't this trues the noon hour came and you 
were to have lunch, and Col. Williams had not finished 
ques tioning you, and you were given lunch and then you 
were again questioned? 

A Questioned again that evening after lunch. 

Q He started questioning you before lunch, is that' 
right? 

A Yes. 

Q And Ixmchtime came, that's right? 
A Yea. 

Q And you v/ere given your lunch? 
A Yes. 

Q, And you ate your lunch? 
A Yes. 

Q, And after you ate your lunch. Col. V/illiams returned 

and finished questioning you? 
A Yes. He questioned me more. 

842 



Q How long did he question you after lunch, about ten 

or fifteen minutes? 
A Longer than that, 

Q How much longer? 

A About twenty, twenty-five minutes. 

Q And after he finished questioning, then what? 

A I was dismissed. "' 

Q But before you were dismissed, didn't he ask you 
v;hether or not you v/anted to write your ovm story 
in your own handwriting? 

A No, sir. 

Q Tifho did ask you that? 

A Maj. Manchester asked me on the outside, after I v;as 

dismissed, he came out of the room and asked me, v/ould 
I write a statement and sign my name to it. 

Q Which you did? 

A Yes, and signed my name to it. 

Q And after completing v/riting it, you gave it to him? 
A He came in and, he came in to me and I gave it to him. 

Q And you turned it over to him then? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q He did not take it away from you? 
A No, sir; I give it to him. 

Q All right. Fow, that was the last time that you v/ere 
questioned, v;asn't it? 

A That was the last time I was questioned that I can re- 
call. 

Q Nov/, during none of those questionings and at no time 

do you recall seeing me? 
A I don't recall seeing you. 

Trial Judge x.dvocate: I believe that is all I have of 
this witness. 

Defense: I have no further questions. 

LaViT Member: What is the date of this statement? 

Trial Judge Advocate: It is dated September the 30th, 
yes, that is correct. Maj. Manchester has so testified. 

Lav; Member: Was Col. Williams present on September 
5th, when you made your first statem.ent? 

The Witness: I don't recall him being present. 

Law Member: Well, September 5th is the first statement 
that you made. 

843 



The Vifitness^ As close as I can remember that is 
the first statement I mad^-- . There wasn't but two state- 
ments made all this time. 

Law lumber" September 5th? 

The Vifitness' Yes, that is the first time. 

LaviT Member: i^nd the other one was September 30th? 

The Witness; The 30th, I don't know. 

Law Member- Is that the time? 

Trial Jud^e ^.dvocate^ Yes. 

EXiJ\aNATIOR BY THE COURT 

Questions by Law Member: 

Q Well, at any rate, you only made two statements? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q One to Maj. Manchester, and 

A Yes, sir. 

Q And the other one on September 30th? 

A No, sir; it wasn't to Maj. Manchester, but to Col. Williams, 
the second statement. 

Q Well, didn't he ask you if Col. Vi/illiams was there on 

September 5th? 
A No, sir; that was the second statement. 

Q Was September 5th, the first statement you ^ave? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q And Maj. Manchester was there, isn't that right? 
A I don't recall seeing him. 

Q The second and last statement was September 30th? 
A Yes, sir; about that. 

Q How, on September 5th, what statement was the man 
referring to that he wanted you to change? 

A That was the statem.ent I made on, the first state- 
ment . 

Q On September 5? 

A Yes, sir; that is the first one. 

Q Had you made any prior statement, before that time;' 

A Y"es, sir. 

Q, I don't believe you understand. 
A Oh, no. 

•Q Before September 5th, had you made any statement? 
A No, sir. 

844 



Q Then on September 5, when you say this Sergeant 

wanted you to change the statement, to what statement 
were you referring? 

A To what statement was I referring? I don't understand. 

President" Did you make a statement on September 5, 
and then later change that statement on that same day? 

Q On either the 5th of September, or the 30th, do I 
understand you correctly, that the 24th Article of 
Vi/ar was not mentioned at all? 

A Not that I recall, I can't recall. I don't say it 
wasn't, but I don't recall it. 

Q Do you recall on either the 5th of September, or the 

30th of September, of being told that you did not have 
to make any statement? 

A No, sir. ' 

Q You were never told that either? 

A No. Oh, on this first statement I was told that I did 

not have to make a statement unless I wanted to conern- 

ing this riot. 

Q You were told that on September 5th? 
A The 5th. 

Q V/ell, were you also told that on September 30th? 
A No, sir. 

Q Now, then, on September 5, were you told, or were you not 

told, that the statement could be used against you? 
A I was not told that. 

Q Or on September 30th, were you told that? 
A No, sir. 

Q At the time that this rope was throv/n into your lap, 

had you made any statement at that time? 
A Previous to the time the rope was thrown in my lap? 

Q Yes, 

A I don't think so. 

Q You had not made any statement at all before the rope 

was thrown in your lap? 
A Not that I can recall. 

Q Or, had you made any statement at the time that someone 
said, "You will know more about this when the rope is 
around your neck." Had you m.ade any statem-ont at that 
time? 

A 1 guess I had; yes, I did. 

Q To whom? 

A The civilian. 

845 



Q And at that time you don't recall anything about an 

officer being present? 
A There v/as an officer present but I couldn't recall 

his name. 

Q You saw T'laj. Manchester here in court today? 
A YeSj sir. 

Q It was not Ma j . Manchester? 
A I don't remember who it \vas. 

Q You say that it was not Maj. Manchester? 
A I say I didn't remember who it Y/asj I don't remember 
who it was. I didn't say it wasn't. 

Q It could have been Maj. Manchester; 
A It could have been for all I know. 

Q Is this statement, Prevostj that is here now, 

A (Interposing) Yes, sir. 

Q (continuing) as Prosecution Exhibit 55, for identi- 
fication; is that the only statement you signed? 

A That is the only statement I signed, yes, sir. 

President^ Any further questions? The witness will be 
excused. 

Defense; I want to ask one further question. 

President.' As you were. 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Prevost, when Col. O'Connor asked you if you had made 
any statement prior to the time Sergeant Young made 
the remark to you about the rope around your neck, 
what do you \inderstand Col. O'Connor to mean by a 
statement? 

A I thought he meant, had I, I had given a statement 

before that time. 

Q Vmat kind of a statement? What kind of a statement 

are you talking about ■. 
A A written statement. 

Law Member: Had you given an oral statement? 
The Witness: Yes, sir, I had given an oral state- 
ment. 

Q That is what they had you in there for at that time 
for questioning you and asking you questions? 

Trial Judge Advocate" Now, don't lead hiiv. too much, 

846 



Major. 

President' Any further questions? 

Capt. Atkinson: I have one. 

EXAMIHATION BY THE COURT 
Questions by Capt. Atkinson ^ 

Q When you were questioned by Col. Williams, 

A (interposing) Yes sir. 

Q, (Continuing) He had a civilian there making notes 

of what you said? 
A Yes, sir," to the best of my recollection. 

Q And v/hon you had finished making that oral statement 

and you left the room and v/ent into the larger room, — 
is that ri£,ht? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, before Col. V/illiams started asking you these 
questions, just the oral questions, did ho tell you 
that you did. not have to make a statement even orally? 

A Ko, sir J he didn't say that. 

Q Nothing about that? 
A No, sir. 

Q, Did ho toll you anything you said there could be used 

against you? 
A No, sir, because if he had I wouldn't have v/rittcn the 

statement. 

Q I mean the oral statement? He didn't warn you before you 

spoke? 
A No, sir. 

Q Lid he mention to you before these questions were asked 

about this 24th Article of War? 
A I don't recall. 

Q Then, when you wont into the largo room, Major Manchester 

came in there later, is that correct? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q, And did he ask you if you had made an oral statement to 

Col, William-s? 
A He didn't mention anything but if i would make a statement 

out and sign it. 

847 



Q He didn't raention anything about the oral statement? 
A No, sir. 

Q And you replied, "Yes, you v/ould? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Did Major Manchester tell you anything about that this 

vrritten statement could be used against you? 
A Ko, sir^ he didn't. 

Q Did Maj. Manchester tell you that you still did not 

have to write this v/ritten statement? 
A No, sir. 

Q Or did I'aj. Manchester mention the 24th Article of 

War, then, to you, in the big room? 
A Ho, sir. 

Capt. Atkinson 2 That's all. 

President" Witness is excused. 

Witness excused. 

Trial Judge Advocate ^ Do you have anything else? 

Defense: No, I have nothing else at this time. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let us call Maj. Manchester back. 

(Maj. Robert H. Manchester, having been previously 
SY/orn, was recalled and testified further as follov/s:) 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q You are reminded. Major, that you are still under 
oath. 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Maj. Manchester, tell the Court please, sir, if you 
will, when Viilliu Prevost was intorviev/ed prior to 
the time that Col. Vifilliams Interviewed him, before 
that time? 

A As I recall, I \7as present the first of it, sir. 

Q All right. Now, at that Interviev;, who else was 
present besides you? 

A Mr. Olson. Mr P'reeman. Sergeant Young. And I 

believe Mr Glasgov;, and Mrs Henderson, v;ho is a steno- 
grapher at the SPE and a WAG by the name of Morgan. 
That is all I recall being present. 

Q Were you present at the beginning of the interviev/? 
A Yes, sir, I v;as. 

Q And about how long did you stay? 

848 



A As I recall it, I stayed a very short period, sir. 

I had a previous verbal conversation v;ith the accused. 

Q Prevost? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q You mean previous to the time that this interview took 

placet 
A Some few moments before, yes, sir. 

Q All righL. V.ovr, were you present at the time that the 

interview began? 
A Yes, sir, I was. 

Q Was or was not the accused, Willie Prevost, advised 
of his rights under the 24th Article of War at that 
time? 

A He was; they were read to him. Or, that particular 
Article of Vifar was read to him. 

Q Who read it? ' 

A As I recall, I read it. 

Q Now, what further contacts did you have with the accused, 
Willie Prevost, after that morning when you found it 
necessary to make another engagement. In other y/ords, 
did you have any further contacts with him after that 
time ; 

A I saw him again at the time he was interviev/ed by 

Col. Williams, and again at the time that he turned has 
statement over to you. And I saw him during the course 
of the AW70 investigation. I may have seen him other 
times. That is not fresh in my memory. 

Q Nov/, Major, during the time that you were present 

at the first interview that you have told the Court 
about, when Mr Olson, Mr Preem^an, Sergeant Young, 
and Mr Glasgow and a Mrs Henderson, and I believe you 
said a WAG by tho name of Morgan were present at that 
time, state to the Court whether or not you saw anyone 
throw a rope in Willie Provost's lap and tell him that 
he could bo tried for hanging that man? 

Defense- Objected to as leading? 

Law Member: Objection overruled. 

A Not in my presence did I see such an act. 

Q State whether or not in your presence Sergeant Young 
told the accused, Willie Prevost, that he had or he 
would know m.ore about the case when the rope was tied 
around his neck and he was hanging or words to that 
effect? 

A No, sir J I heard no such statement. 

Q Did you at any time hear Sergeant Young tell the accused 

849 





1 

that an Italian had already Identified him, and that 




the best he could do was to change his statement? 


A 


llo, sir; I did not. 


Q 


Now, who is Mr Olson? • . 


A 


Mr Olson, his first name is Peter Olson. He was a 




civilian investigator hired by the War Department, 




and assigned to our division. 


Q 


And Mr Freeman? 


A 


Same status. 


Q 


And Young, Sergeant Young? 


A 


He is a member of Detachment C, an M.P. organization. 




from which we use enlisted men as investigators in 




our Division, 


Q 


And Glasgov/? 


A 


I don't know his correct organization. He is attached 




to our Division; as I understand it he belongs to 




the Northern Security District. 


9, 


And Mrs Henderson? ■ ■ 


A 


It is my understanding that she is a stenographer or 




secretary for the Overseas Supply Division. 


Q 


All right. And this WAG v/hom you mentioned, Morgan? 


A 


She is also assigned as I understand it to the OSD. 


<% 


Now, Maj. Manchester, at the time that Col. »/illiams 




Interviev/ed the accused, Willie Prevost, did or did 




not you hear Col. Williams at any time toll the 




accused, Prevost, that the Court would not accept his 




statement, and that he should change it? 


A 


No, I did not . 


Q 


Did you ever try to get the accused, Ylfillie Prevost, 




to change his statement? 


A 


No, sir. 


. Q 


Was it ever done in your presence by anyone? 


A 


It was not. , 


Q 


At the time this statement in Prevost 's ov/n hand- 




writing was delivered, tell the Court nov; who was 




present. 


A 


At the time tho statement which was introduced as 




Exhibit, or introduced here, was delivered by the 




accused, Prevost, the accused, you, and myself were 




present . 


Q 


Now, are you positive that I was present? 


A 


Yes, sir, I am. 


Q 


All right. And can you be positive that I made some 




rem.arks to the accused Willie Prevost? 


A 


I am very positive that you made remarks to him relative 




to his giving tho statement. As I have previously tes- 




850 



tified you told him that he didn't have to make itj 
that it was assumed to he the truth; that in giving 
it, it was understood it was being given of his 
own accord, free and voluntary. You asked him if 
he understood that. Upon his acknowledgement that 
he did, you asked him to sign it. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right! that is all. 

RECROSS KXAMIHATIOK 

Questions by Defenses 

Q Maj. Manchester, what time on September 30th, was 

Prevost first brought in for questioning? 
A I don't recall the time, sir. I kept no record of it. 

Q Well, was he the first man that was examined that day? 
A I could not tell you. 

Q You can't remember that? 
A No, sir; I do not. 

Q, Well, let me ask you this. After you were through 
questioning Prevost, who v/as the next man that was 
examined? 

A I am unable to answer that, sir. 

Q You don't recall thaf? 
A No, sir. 

Q V^ell, tell me the name of any other man that was 

examined on that day, September 30th? 
A I will have to give you the same answer. I do not 

recall . 

Q You don't recall. Well, did you question witnesses 

in connection with this questioning on the day before 
before, September 29th? 

A I did not question them, no, sir, during that period. 
They were questioned by Col« Vailliams. 

Q Were you present? 

A At all times, no, sir. 

Q Were you present at any of the questioning on September 
29th? 

A It is very possible, I was. It is very possible that 
in the examination that I identified was taken on the 
29th, that I was also at others on that week of the 
25th, it could have been on the 26th, 27th, 28th, or 
29th. I don't know. 

Q Do you remember any individuals questioned on the 

1st of October, two days afterward? 
A No, sir. 

Defense" That is all. 

851 



Trial Judge Advocate ^ No further questions. 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 
Questions by Law Member - 

Q Major, you stated that on September 5th, or thereabouts, 
when you had your first conference with Prevost, that 
you warned him. of his rights under the 24th Article of 
War? 

A That is at the time the typewritten or recorded state- 
ment was taken from him, yes, sir. 

Q Was that the first time that you had interviewed him? 
A Yes, sir. That was the first time I had seen Prevost. 

Q Now, when you warned him of his rights under 24th 

Article of vYar, will you tell us what you told him? 

A The 24th Article of War was read to hlia, sir. I 
don't recall the exact wording of an explanation 
I may have given him. 

Q Will you give us the substance of it? 

A I can give you the substance of it, sir. He was ad- 
vised the samie as all the other accused were, after 
the 24th Article of War was read to him, that it 
was written for his protection, it was a part of 
his protection as a witness. He could not be 
compelled to testify. He could not be compelled to 
do or say anything that would incriminate himself or 
degrade him| that we wouldn't ask him questions that 
would ?;rong him in the eyes of other people, and so 
forth. That he was at liberty to leave the room upon 
his statement that he did not care to make a statem.ent. 

Q Did you or did you not at that time tell him that any 
statement that he m.ade might or could or would be used 
against him? 

A I did not . 

Q Then the next one of these conferences that you had along, 
or with Col. Williams, that is on the 5th, and 30th 
of September, you yourself did not advise the accused 
that the statement he made, or might m^ake, would or 
could be used against him? 

A No, sir; I did not. 

Q In your presence, did you hear anybody else on those 
occasions, on either or those occasions, advise the 
witness that the statement would or could be used 
against him? 

A No, sir. And I was not present at the first part of 
the statement that Col. Williams took. 

Q That is on the 30th of September? 
A Yes, sir. 

852 



Q The day that he ultimately signed Prosecution Exhibit 

35 for identification? 
A That is correct, sir. 

Q How long did you stay at the conference on the 5th of 
September? 

A Sir, it would be hard for me to ansv/er unless I re- 
ferred to the record or the transcription of the 
testimony. 

Q But you did warn him as you stated under the 24th 

Article of War? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q And then did you hear some testimony taken, or did 

you leave immediately thereafter? 
A I am certain I left immediately thereafter upon his 

statement that he understood the contents of the 

24th Article of War, and his rights, and did desire 

to make a statement. 

Q, Then you left? _ • 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Did you or did you not come back at any time thereafter 

while this statement was being taken? 
A I don't recall that I did, sir. 

President: Any further questions? 

Trial Judge Advocate; I had just a question. 

Defense: I wanted to ask a question, but go ahead. 
Counsel . 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION 
Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Major, Y^ere you in and out during Col» Williams' 

interrogation of the Accused Willie Prevost, or were 

you there the entire tine? 
A I don't recall coraa'.ng in and out on that particular 

occasion. I did on some, but on that one I have no 

particular recollection of. 

Q You are not in a position to say you were there the 

• entire time or not? 
A No, sir; as I recall it, I was not. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all. 

RECROSS EXAMniATION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Novj', you spoke of the testimony, you did have reference 

855 



to a transcript, what transcript is that? 
A That was his statement recorded by Mrs Henderson 
and Miss Morgan of the statement. And I vms not 
familiar with the date of it at this time until 
the Law Member mentioned September 5, which may be 
correct. 

Q I understand you were referring to a transcript of 
the testimony taken on September 30th. Was there 
such a transcript? 

A There was, taken by Col. Williams. 

Q Col. Williams? 

A Yes. Mine was several days before. In fact, 
practically a month before. 

Q, Fow, the delegation you have named here, is that the 
usual delegation that you have present v/hen you in- 
terview witnesses of this kind? 

A I will state it is the usual delegation we had present 
at this particular case. It is not customary, because 
we have never had occasion to have such a case as 
this before. 

Q What is the necessity of having so many people; for 
Instance, v^rhat does Mr Olson and Mr Freeman, and 
Sergeant Young and Glasgow do? 

A What v/ould they do? 

Q Yes, During the course of the investigation while 
you are questioning the witness? 

A The purpose of having those particular individuals 

there was that they would be investigating, assigned 
to investigating certain phases of this investigation. 
And that they had talked to certain individuals with 
whom I had not talked. They were familiar with aspects 
of the case that I v;as not familiar with. After the 
questioning then a round-table or square-table dis- 
cussion was had giving them an opportunity, an oppor- 
tunity for all of them to ask the questions that 
they desired to ask. From their knov/ledge of the 
case. 

Q The questioning of the witness was not limited to 
yourself alono? 

A My questioning of a witness was probably limited to 
the extent of reading the 24th Article of War to 
them, asking them, if they desired to make a state- 
ment. With that understanding preceding their state- 
ment that they did understand, then asking them v/here 
they were on the night of the 14th of August, 1944. 

Q You would conduct the preliminary examination, and 
then turn it over to the various Investigators? 

A Yes, unless I had some knowledge of some situation I 
wanted to question them about. 

Defense" I think that is all. 

854 



EXAIJINATION BY THE COURT 
(Questions by Law Member: 

Q Major, on the 5th of September, did you have the rope 

that has been referred to In your possession? 
A Yes, sir, it was in our office. 

Q At the time you warned the accused of his rights under 
the 24th Article of War, on the 5th of September, 
did you see the rope in the room there that day? 

A Yes, sir. As I recall it was on the table. 

Law Member: That is all. ' . 

Trial Judge Advocate = No further questions by the 
Prosecution. 

Defense: Defense has no further questions. 

President: Does the Prosecution have any further 
questions or anything further to offer? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, If it please the Court, 
I want to put several witnesses on now in view of the testi- 
mony of the accused. 

President: Can MaJ . Manchester be excused for the 
time being. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, sir. We could not use 
him any more this afternoon. I see it is 4:25 now. 

President: Yes. The court will recess now, and will 
reconvene at 9:00 o'clock tomorrow morning. 

The court was then recessed at 4:25 p.m., to reconvene 
at 9:00 o'clock, a.m., the following day. 

855 



Fort Lawton Staging Area 
Fort Lawton, Washington 
November 30, 1944 

The court met, pursuant to adjournment, at 9; 00 
a.m., all of the personnel of the court, prosecution ^and 
defense, who were present at the close of the previous 
session in this case being present. 

The accused and reporter were also present. 

President: The court will be in recess maybe five 
or ten minutes, or until the prosecution is ready. So 
we will remain seated. 

The court then took a short recess, after which the 
personnel of the court, prosecution and defense, and the 
accused and the reporter resumed their seats. 

President o Is the prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocates The prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Is the defense ready to proceed? 

Defense: The defense is ready, sir. 

President: Court will come to order. 

The roll was called by the assistant trial judge 
advocate and all of the accused were present. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record show that each 
of the accused is present, that all members of the court 
are present at the time of convening this morning, and 
that all personnel representing the accused, and all per- 
sonnel representing the prosecution as v/ell, are present. 
Is the court ready to hear the first witness this morn- 
ing? 

President: Yes. 

(Mrs. Lu M. Henderson, Overseas Supply Division, 
Seattle Port of Embarkation, a witness for the prosecu- 
tion, was sworn and testified as follows:) 



DIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q. Will you state your name? 
A. Mrs. Lu M. Henderson. 

856 



J 



Q,, By whom are you employed, Mrs. Henderson?- 
A, The Seattle Port of Embarkation. 

Q. The Seattle Port of Embarkation. In what particular 
division or section in the Seattle Port of Embarka- 
tion? 

A. Overseas Supply Division. 

Q. Overseas Supply Division. And how long have you been 

employed by the Overseas Supply Division, please? 
A. It is two years and three months. 

Q. Now, Mrs. Henderson, were you ever called upon to 
serve as stenographer in connection with the taking 
of some statements of negro soldiers v/ho were inter- 
viewed in connection with the Ft. Lawton riot? 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. At whose instance and request did you serve in that 

capacity? 
A. Well, the Intelligence Division, Major Manchester. 

Q. Were you or not made available by your division for 

that purpose? 
A, Yes, sir, I was. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I will ask that this be 
marked as prosecution exhibit for ilenfitication. 

"Prosecution Exhibit 36" was marked for identifica- 
tion." • 

Defense: May I see it? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I have not offered it yet. I 
am m.erely going to ask here if she can identify it and 
then I expect to let you see it before I offer it. 

Q. Will you take "Prosecution Exhibit 36" for identifica- 
tion and go over it, please, and tell the court whether 
or not you have written that statement. 

Defense: If the court please, the v;itness is not 
being asked about an individual statement only. There 
is a large picture attached to the statement, and I am 
objecting to the witness being shown a photograph at the 
same time as she is being shown a statement with no men- 
tion being made of the photograph. 

Trial Judge Advocate: If it please the court, I will 
take the picture off. It just so happens that this is 
a file and it further happens that it is a confidential 
file, and while the confidential aspect has been removed 
by the chief of staff, it is all a part of one file and 

857 



I hestltated taking it off. 

Law Member: Are you still objecting to the photo- 
grapli? 

Defense: Yes^ I am objecting if the Court please. 
It can be put back on at the time of trial later. 



off. 



Trial Judge Advocate: All right, we v/ill take it 



Q Now please, Mrs. Henderson, will you carefully look 
over the statement and state whether or not that 
statement was taken by you of one of the Negro sol- 
diers who was interviewed in connection with this 
riot? 

A Yes, it is. 

Q The question v;fas, — or your answer v;as what, please? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q I will ask you to tell the Court whether or not this 
is a transcript of the entire testimony. 

Defense: ITow if it ploase the Court, I did not ob- 
ject to the last question, which is clearly leading, but 
this question is further leading. Let the viritness tell 
what that is. 

Law Member: All right. Colonel, ask her what the 
statement represents. 

Q All right. What does the statement represent? 
A It represents the questions and answers that were 
asked in my presence. 

Q Does it or not represent the questions and answers, 
or only part of the questions and answers? 

A It represents all of them; I was instructed to take 
down everything. 

Q Did you or not take down everything that was said in 

your presence. 
A Yes, sir, I did. 

Q ITow do you recall who was present at the time of this 

interview that you took? 
A I couldn't state positively. There were several people 

that were there on most of it. Mr. Freeman. Mr. 

Glasgow. Sergeant Young, Sergeant Fiske. Major 

Manchester. Mr. Olson. They were there on most of 

it. Of course, people came in and som.e of them left. 

I couldn't remember all of them, we took too many of 

them. 

858 



Q, 



A 

9, 
A 

Q 



A 

Q 
A 

Q 

A 

Q. 

A 
Q, 

A 



Now I will ask you, Mrs. Henderson, v/hether or not, 

at any time, that the statement of the accused V/illie 

Prevost, or any other negro soldier v/as taken, whether 

or not at any tlrre anyone threw a rope in a Negro 

soldier's lap and told him he would be charged with 

murder? 

I heard no such statement. - , 

Did anything of that nature ever happen in your 

presence? 

No, sir. 

I will ask you, Mrs. Henderson, if at any time any- 
one made the statement to Vtfillie Prevost or any other 
Negro soldier that if he would he at the end of a 
rope, or had a rope about his neck he would be re- 
membering a whole lot more? 
Not in my presence, no, sir. 



Was anything of 

presence? 

No, sir. 



similar nature ever said in your 



I v/ill ask you whether or not in your presence at any 
time a statement was made to Willie Prevost or any 
other Negro soldier that an Italian had already iden- 
tified him and that his word wouldn't mean anything 
against the Italian's, or words to that effect? 
No, I never heard that statement. 

Was there or not, in your presence, at any time, any 
nature or character of threat made against V/illie Pre- 
vost or any other accused? 
No, there was not. 

Novi at the time that these Negro soldiers were ques- 
tioned, I will ask you vifhether or not exhibits that 
were being used were kept on a table in the same room. 
Yes, sir. 

Were or not somo of those exhibits ever handed to any 
of the accused v/ith the question as to whether or not 
they could identify such exhibit? 
Yes, sir. 

Defense; Let the record shov/ the leading nature of all 
of these questions. 

Now what, if anything, -- was there an exhibit, — well, 
strike that. Mrs. Henderson, do you recall some of 
those exhibits? 
That were in the room? 



A 



Yes? 
Yes. 



859 



Q,. Will you tell the court what some of them were? 

A. Thei^o were pieces of rope. There were some stones. 

Shovels. ICnives. Pickets from a fence. Sticks. 

There was clothing. That is about all I remember. 

Q. Were any of those exhibits handed to any of the ac- 
cused for identification? 
A. Yes, sir, they were. 

Q. Will you name some of the exhibits that were handed 
to some of the accused for the purpose of seeing 
whether they could identify them? 

A. On one occasion, a shovel. Knives on several occa- 
sions. 

Defense; Are you speaking of the occurrence in so 
far as it affects Willie Prevost, or are you speaking 
just generally. 

Law Member: I am ^^ssiuning it is as bo Prevost. 

Defense: He said some of the accused. I don't 
know whether he means some of the accused^, or other 
accused that were present on another occasion, or just 
what he means . 

Trial Judge Advocate: There is no inference to any 
other accused specifically here present. I think it is 
proper for this witness to say, and \vhether any of the 
other accused wore present, whether it was this accused 
or any other accused, is immaterial. 

Law Member: That is right. . 

Trial Judge Advocate: ITow, will you proceed? 

A. On one occasion there was a shovel handed to a de- 
fendant. On a few occasions, knives. There was a 
piece of rope, I remember. 

Q. Now I will ask you if you remember the particular 
occasion when the accused, Willie Provost, was ex- 
amined? 

A. Yes, I remember. - 

Q. And state whether or not the statement you have 
identified does or does not contain the entire ex- 
amination? 

A. It does. All of the statorfients I turned in were ex- 
actly as I took them down. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I now offer this statement 
in evidence. 

Defense: The court will permit me to road it, I 

860 



prosiome. It is quite a lengthy document. (Perusing 
document.) May I ask a question? If it please the 
cout, I would like to ask a question or two on this. 

CROSS EXAMINATION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q,, VYhat is it, Miss or Mrs? 
A. Mrs. . 

Q. Mrs. Henderson, you were in the room during all of 
the time that the accused, Willie Prevost, waz ques- 
tioned? 

A* Yes. 

Q. Where is this room? 

A. In the Goodrich Building. 

Q. Is that one of those rooms on the third floor that 

are surrounded by glass partitions? 
A. Yes. 

Q. Now you were in the room at the time that Willie 

Prevost was brought in? 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q,, And you heard all of the questions that were asked 

him? 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And every question and answer that was made by 
Prevost at that time is recorded and set down in 
what has been marked "Prosecution Exhibit 36" for 
identification? 

A. To the best of my knowledge, yes. 

Q,, Well, there wasn't anything said in there that day 

that you did not take down? 
A, No, sir, I was instructed to take everything down. 

Defense: Now if it please the court, I don't 
think the exhibit is the best evidence, but I am not 
going to object to it on that ground. And with the 
names of other acciased removed, I have no objection 
to this going in. 

Law Member: Well, I want to ask a question. 
Mrs. Henderson, did this incident take place on the 
5th of September, 1944? 

Witness: That I couldn't say, sir. 

Defense: It appears on the face of the exhibit. 

861 



Law Member : It is on the exhibit it was the 5th 
of September. 

Witness c I took the date off of my notes and it 
shows on the transcript. 

Defense: The date of the exhibit stated, on the 
transcript, it states the date it was taken. 

Witness: Yes, sir. We date our notes. 

Law Member: Colonel, at this time may I ask you 
if you intend to introduce other evidence pertaining 
to the offense that took place on the 5th of September? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I do. 

Law Member: Then I will reserve mv decision at 
this time on the receipt of "Exhibit 36" for identifi- 
cation. 

Defense: As a matter of fact, with the other 
names deleted I am perfectly willing to join in the re- 
ceipt of the exhibit. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Suppose we do. If counsel 
joins on that offer at a time when these names are de- 
leted, I don't think there could be any objection to 
the Introduction at this time. 

Law Member: I am still going to reserve my ruling. 
Remind me to make the ruling on "36#. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes. 

President: Did your notes include any warnings 
that were given to the accused? 

Witness: Warnings, sir? 

President: Yes, by the investigating officer? 

Witness: Did you want me to answer that? 

Defense: Well I have some general questions , 
farther on that respect. 

Law Member: Have you completed? 

Defense: No, I have not completed with the witness. 

President: Well, I will withhold my question then. 

Q, Could you read over Prosecution Exhibit 36 for iden- 
tification to refresh your memory on anj^thing that hap- 

862 



pened at that date? 
A I Gxpect I could. 

Q I v;ill hand you that record and ask you to refresh 
your memory as to the questions Major Manchester 
asked Willie Prevost v/ith respect to his rights 
under the 24th Article of War, and also as to the 
answers that the accused, Willie Prevost, made. 

Law Member: May I have that question again? 

(Last question read hack.) 

Trial Judge Advocate « The exhibit is going to be 
admitted. 

Defense; The purpose is to refresh the witness' 
memory. 

Law Member " The object of withholding the exhibit 
is that I don't want to know anything about that ex- 
hibit or does the court until further Information has 
been obtained pertaining to the incidents of September 
5th. 

Defense » Well counsel v/ent into at great length 
with this witness as to what transpired in that room 
that day, and I have a right now to inquire on cross 
examination as to what took place that day. 

Lav; Member: You have, but T wish you would re- 
frain from informing the Court with anything in that 
exhibit, because it might be highly prejudicial to your 
own accused. 

Defense- Well, then the court is preventing me 
from going into this. 

Law Member: IIo. It is my intention to keep this 
court and myself entirely ignorant from the contents of 
that exhibit until it has been received in evidence. 
And to do that I am perfectly willing, together with 
Col. DeWitt, to wait and examine the witness as to the 
contents after it has been introduced. 

Defense: V/ell I am not asking her about the con- 
tents now. I am just giving it to her to refresh her mem- 
ory. I think I am perfectly entitled to do that. 

Law Member: Well may I have the question again? 

(Last question read back.) 

Defense- I have not asked her anything, I asked 
her if she needed to refresh her recollection and she 

863 



said she did. '' 

Lav/ Member i Now you are going to be permitted that 
question and the witness will be permitted to answer it. 
But will you please point out specifically to that exhibit 
what part pertains to the 24th Article of War? 

Defense: Yes. You mean to the witness? 

Law Member: Yes. to the witness. 

Q I will ask of the witness this. Do you have your 
stenographic notes, other than this exhibit, as to 
what took place down there that day with you? 

A No. 

Q. You don't have those; you don't have your ovm short- 
hand notes? 
A Yes. 

Q Do you have those v;ith you? 
A I have some in my books. 

Q Well suppose you get those and we won't bother with 
this. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Do you have those with you? 

Witness: IJo, sir, not here. 

Q, Will you got them and bring them here and do that? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Nov/ you mean you want her to 
read from her shorthand notes? 

Defense: That is v/hat she took down and it would be 
better than the exhibit. 

Witness: Let me explain. This is my method. I am 
not a reporter. I have not used my shorthand for some 
years, for some time. But this is the way Y/e did it. 
Major Manchester used the same method and procedure with 
every witness. I did not take down the 24th Article of 
War every time he read it to each witness, because he 
used the same procedure with every witness. We did that. 
And when he started reading that I didn't take it dovm, 
but as soon as he had read the 24th Article of War and 
started in questioning and getting ansv/ers, then I 
started taking it dovm. 

Q Does this exhibit set forth the exact m.anner in which 

the 24th Article of War was read? 

A This is the form. When the witness v/as brought in 
he was first sworn in. We did that in every case. 
Then he told them they were entitled to be famil- 
iarized ¥/lth the 24th Article of War. 

864 



Q Did he do that in the same manner in which you have 

descrihed? 
A In the same order. And then he read, — ? 

Q (Interposing) Then he read, — ? 

Trial Judge Advocate (interposing): Well let her 
finish her answer. 

Defenses Well she answered it. She said in the same 
order. 

Q, I take it you mean you copied down the 24th Article of 
War afterward out of the book, out of the Manual of 
Court's Martial? 

A That's right. 

Q Every time he read the 24th Article of War you did 
not transcribe that or write it, but you would pick 
it up later out of the ro.anual for Courts Martial? 

A That's right. 

Law Members Now do you want her to read out of that 
exhibit as to what pertains to the 24th Article of Yifar? 

Defense: Yes, I would like to have you do so. 

Law Member All right. And Just to that far only. 

Witness: You mean here (indicating)? 

Q Yes, will you read there? 

A "Q: Prevost, do you solemnly swear that the evidence 

that you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 
A: I do, sir. 

Q: According to Army regulations, you are entitled to 
be acquainted with the 24th Article of War. Are you fa- 
miliar with it? 
A: Yes, sir. 

Q: I will read it to you." 

Now do you want me to read that to you? 

Law Member: Well I assume it is inserted verbatim. I 
don't think you need to. 

Q Is it verbatim? 

A Yes. "Q: With that understanding of your rights under 
the 24th Article of War, do you desire to make a state- 
ment? 
A: Yes, sir. 

Q: Will you state your full name, rank, serial number 

and the organization to which you belong? 

A: T/5 Willie Prevost, 3548289, 650th Port Company." 

865 



Lav; Member • Do you iinderstand fully the reason for 
the ruling which I have made? There is a proposed exhibit 
which seems to be a question and answer. Until the Court 
has received further evidence pertaining to the incidents 
which took place on the 5th of September, 1944, the Court 
at this time is not desirous of reading the proposed Exhibit 
36 any more than it is read or to proposed Exhibit 35. 

Defense" I understand, sir. 

Q Nov/ Mrs. Henderson, what you have just read to the 
Court constitutes the preliminary questions with 
respect to the 24th Article of War v/hich Major Man- 
chester made to the accused Willie Prevost, and the ac- 
cused liVi Hie Provost's answers, thereto? 

A Major, on several occasions these boys seemed they 
didn't understand it, — 

Q (Interposing) Well now let us just talk about this one 
occasion. 

A All right. I will say on practically all occasions and 

I am sure, alm.ost sure it happened on this one. He would 
break that down and explain it to him in different lan- 
guage, in different words. 

Q Well your transcript is not a true and accurate record of 
what took place then, of everything that took place? 

A As far as that explanation, no, because he said it was 

not necessary to copy it all down because he used it and 
explained it in their ovm words. 

Q Then you don't v/ant this Court to believe that it is a 
true and correct copy of everything that was taken down 
or said? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Now just a minute. 

Defense « Well she has testified that it was. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well just a minute. Do you mind 
me stating my viev/s? May it please this Court, there is a 
very definite procedure with regard to asking questions in a 
military trial which is somev/hat different than in a civilian 
trial. There is a very specific provision that provides for 
where a yes and no ansv/er shall be given, and that no witness 
shall be required to explain unless the Court finds it neces- 
sary and has a good reason for such, and in such case there 
shall be a yes or no answer only. There is a good reason for 
this witness to try to explain that. First, he has confined 
his examination to this form and he has tried to got her to 
testify that that form applies and is followed in all situa- 
tions. The witness is trying to testify that this form was 
used at the beginning of the examination, — 

Defense: (Interposing) Now I am going to object to coun- 
sel trying to put things in this record that arc not hero and 
trying, — 

86C 



Law Member: (Interposing) Well, v/hat was the question? 

(Last two questions and answer read back.) 

La?/ Member; \Vell, that cannot be a yes or no answer. 

Defenses Well, let mo remind the Court that when this 
witness testified on direct examination on qvxestions by 
Col. Jaworski, she testified this was a true and correct copy 
of everything that transpired and for the first time, when I 
asked her to produce her notes it did not become a true and 
correct copy. Now, I have got a right to ask her whether 
this is a true and correct copy. 



it? 



at? 



Law Member' But it cannot be a yes or no answer, can 

Defense: ]Mo, sir. 

Law Member: Do you understand what the Major is driving 

Witness: Yes, sir. 

Law Member: Explain it then. 

A To explain it, I v/ill go back and tell the procedure 
that was used in the questioning. The defendant was 
brought in and sworn, first. Then he was asked if ho 
was familiar with the 24th Article of War and this 
was used in every statement, with every man that was 
brought in. That was done. It was read to him, and 
then Major Manchester explained it and told him what 
his rights were and went into detail. V\fe did not take 
that down because it was very lengthy and sometimes the 
man seemed to understand immediately. So he just gave 
a short explanation and told him that his privileges 
were this or that and that he could refuse to ansv/er 
and that sort of thing, and then asked him if he under- 
stood. And when the defendant answered that he did 
understand the Major started in his formal questioning. 
Then I started taking them down. That is, iimnedlatoly 
after, when ho started with his name, organization 
and rank, which was the next question. In writing 
up the statements, we used the same form on each state- 
ment bocauso the same procedure was followed in each 
instance. Except, I did not write down his explana- 
tion in different v/ords. Wo didn't write that down. 
Because what was required in the statement was the fact 
that the 24th Article of War was read to him, v\fhich it 
was. So I copied it and made the first part of each 
statement the same. 

Law Member: Now that answers your question. 

Defense: Yes. Well then, with that explanation by the 
witness, the statements and this paper is not worth what it 
is written on and I withdraw in the joining of the offer of 



the exhibit. 

Law Member: The paper speaks for itself as to what 
occurred. There is no occasion for any remarks. 

Defense: It does not speak for everything that hap- 
pened. 

Law Member: Your objection is noted and my decision 
is still reserved. 

Q, Was this practice of omitting the questions that were 
asked with respect to the witness' knowledge of his 
rights under the 24th Article of Vi/'ar approved by any- 
one? 

Law Member: If she knows. 

A I don't know what you mean. 

'Q, Well, you took, --you followed the practice down 

there of using a stock form with respect to transcrib- 
ing the statements, isn't that correct? 

A Up to that one point, on each statement. 

Q Now who told you that you might do that or follow 
that practice? 

A I don't remember that. The first day we went down 

there they gave us a sample copy of what the form was 
to be. I have never v/ritten military, -- 

Q. (Interposint) Yes. Well, the point I am getting at, 
Mrs. Henderson, you wouldn't take it upon yourself to 
put anything down different than what actually occurred 
without somebody instructing you ¥;hat to do? 

A As a matter of fact, I think I asked Major Manchester 

whether it was necessary to write that down every time. 

Q, And he told you it was not? 

A No, he told me it wasn't necessary to copy down the 
wording. 

Q, He told you it wasn't necessary to take dovm, you could 
copy that out of a book? 

A Because he said he will ask the same statements in 

every case, which they did, and as soon as they finished 
with his 2 4th Article of War and its explanation, if the 
defendant required an explanation, then from that ques- 
tion on we would take everything which was said, v/hich 
we did, the actual questioning and answering. 

Q, Now is the only thing vi/hich you omitted transcribing 

and writing which was said was the reading of the 24th 
Article of War verbatim? 

A Well, generally, the explanation. Some of them do re- 
quire it. 

868 



Q That was not considered important, the explanation 

of the 24th Article of War? 
A The fact that It was explained to then is put in 

the statement but I did not take down his actual 

words and exiolanation. It is generally the same 

procedute. 

Q, You were permitted to leave that out? 
A Yes, sir. 

Defense: That is all. 

President; I have a question. 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 

Q,uestions by the President: 

Q, Do you know of your ovm knowledge that this 24th Arti- 
cle of War was read to the accused, Vaillie Prevost? 

A I know that, positively. It was road to everyone of 
them, 

Q In your presence? 
A I am positive. 

Q And it was read in its ontirety. They read the v;hole 

thing, the whole 24th Article of War? 
A Yes, sir. It was read to all of them and explained to 

them when they asked for an explanation. I can almost 

give the explanation they gave because I have heard it 

so many times, 

Q, Well, if you do know the explanation that was given In 

this case, — 
A Wo. 

Q It wouldn't be appropriate in any other case. 

President: Any further questions? 

Major MacLonnan; Yes, I have one question. 
Questions by Major MacLennan: 



% 



Mrs. Henderson, you were present the v/hole time that 
the accused, Willie Prevost, v/as there? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q, I believe you testified you were there when he carae in? 
Yes, sir. 

Q^ And did you leave the room at any time during the ques- 
tioning? 

A Not during the questioning, no, I wasn't allowed to 
leave the room, no, 

869 



Q. And v/as tho 24th Article of Y/ar read to this particu- 
lar accused, you are sure of that? 
A I am, positively, sure of that, yes, sir, 

Q, Can you recall at this time if any other warnings in 
addition to that reading of the 24th Article of War 
v/ore given to him? 

A Major, all of them v/ere told that enything they said 
could be used against them. That they liad a right to 
refuse to answer. That they did not have to ansv/er 
any questions. 

Q Do you recallnow definitely that that warning v/as 

given to this accused, V/illio Prevost. 
A The only v/ay I can ansv/or that statement is, was that 

it was given to everyone of them without exception. 

Major MacLonnan: Thank you, very much. 

RSCROSS EXAMINATION 
Questions by Defense: 

Q And you distinctly recall Major Manchester in this 

particular case, with YJillie Prevost, stating that if 
he gave any statement that that statement would be 
used against him or could be? 

A Every time that, — 

Q, Now my question was, do you recall that in this particu- 
lar case. 
A All right. I can say yes, he told y«'illie Prevost. 

Defense: Thank you very much. 

Law Member: As I understand it, the reason you remember 
that is that in all of tho statements you took he read that 
in all cases to the accused? 

Witness: Yes, sir. 

President: VJitness will be excused. 

(witness Excused.) 

(Sgt. Ralph E. Young, a witness for the prosecution, was 
sworn and testified as follows:) 

Defense: Now, at this time, if it please the Court, I 
want the record to show that tho Defense objects to the call- 
ing of this witness on the ground that the rule was made ap- 
plicable in this case as to the exclusion of witnesses. 
This witness has been constantly sitting in this Court Room 
up to yesterday. This witness is one who has been identi- 
fied as working with the investigating officers and the 
Prosecution in this case, it could bo reasonable anticipated 
that ho might bo called as a witness in this case. And I 
object to his testimony on that ground. 

870 



F" 



Law MombGr: Will you ploasc toll mo how it could be 
reasonably o:qpoctod. that ho would be called as a witness. 

Defense: Counsel said at the time, at the very bo- 
ginning, that he was going to put into evidence certain ad- 
missings and confessions and statements of those accused. 
So ho knew from the investigation and what appears in the 
investigating report that Sgt. Young was engaged in that 
work and would most likely bo called in on that. Sgt. 
Young participated in the conduting of the examinations of 
various of these accused and apparently Prevost v/as one of 
thom . 

Trial Judge Advocate: May I say to this Court it was 
at no time anticipated that there would be any statement or 
anything except the statements made in the witness's own 
handwriting and counsel knows perfectly well I believe that 
wc had no way of anticipating a witness' claim, as v/as made 
yesterday, and it has forced us to call this v/ltness to re- 
but that testimony. And the Court v/ill recall that as 
soon as the testimony come out affecting this accused and 
this witness, he immediately left the courtroom. The only 
possible testimony that could possibly affect Willie Pro- 
vost's testimony v/as in the beginning of Willie Provost's 
testimony and immediately on that coming out this witness 
left. That was the only thing that could affect him. The 
Court could very well have permitted this witness to stay 
in the courtroom all the time and under the circumstances 
I certainly think it is proper for the Court to hoar this 
witness' testimony now. 

Lav/ Member: It is the opinion of the Law Member that 
there was not reasonable grounds to believe that the v/it- 
ness, — that the proposed witness now, --would be called 
as a v/itnoss, and the Law Member also concurs in the stato- 
mont that the moment his name was mentioned in yesterday's 
session of the Court, ho withdrew immediately. Therefore, 
subject to objection by any member of the Court, the v/itness 
will be permitted to testify and your objection will bo 
overruled. 

President: Are there any objections by any member of 
the Court? There appear to bo none, tiio ruling of the Law 
Member is the ruling of the Court. 

DIRECT EjCAMINATIOH 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q State your name, please. 
A Ralph E. Young. 

Q And your grade? 
A Sergeant, 

Q And your organization? 

A Intelligence and Security Division in the Seattle Port 

871 



of embarkation, 

Q And how long havo you filled that particular assign- 

raont that you have just rolatod. 
A For the past six months at tho Port. 

Q And how long havo you boon at tho Seattle Port of 

Embarkation? 
A Six months. 

Q, In whose office do you fill your assignment, Sorgoant? 
A I draw my orders from Major Manchester, sir, 

Q Now do you recall tho incident that involved a group 

of negro soldiers that ontcrod the Italian area on Aug- 
ust 14, 1944, at Ft. Lawton? 

A I do, sir, 

Q State whether or not you participated in any investiga- 
tions that wore made as a result of that incident. 
A I have, sir, 

Q Now, Sgt. Young, in connection with the investigations 
that v/ere made did you or not at any time intorrogato 
tho accused, V/illle Provost? 

A I participated, sir, 

Q Do you recall that there v;as an interview of V/illlo Pro- 
vost on or about tho 5th of September, 1944? 
A Yes, sir, 

(^ Wero you or not present at that entire interview? 
A I was. 

Q, Now, S£;t. Young, during tho course of that interview, 

state whether or not you or anyone else said to the ac- 
cused, Willie Provost, that if he had a ropo around his 
nect he would remember a whole lot more than he was 
tolling Y/hile his statoraont was taken. 

A No, sir. I never heard that statement, sir, or anything 
similar to it. 

Q V/ill you toll tho Court vifoothor or not during tho course 
of that interview, anyone threw a rope in VYllllo Pro- 
vost's lap and told him ho would bo charged with murder? 

A No, sir. Tho only thing I remember about a rope was, 
a rope that we handed tho accused. Provost, and asked 
him if he had ever soon that rope before. 

Q Now do you or not recall any reference to the fact that 
Willie Provost, — that some Italian had identified 
Vi?lllio Provost, and that he might as well admit it be- 
cause the Court wovild boliove it? 

A No, sir. It was mentioned that witnesses, --would be 
used against him, or could be used against him, but 
it v/as not determined whether they were Italians or 

872 



• Nogroos. 

Q Was thoro at any tlmo said anything to the effect 

that the Court v;ould boliovo thorn over him, and that 
ho might just as well come clean or anything to that 
effect? 

A Certainly not, sir. 

Q Will you toll the Court what transpired with respect to 
tho method of the examination and tell the Court about 
how long ho was oxaminod. If you rocall, and if ho was 
examined moro than one time? 

A VJoll, I don't remombor exactly how long the examination 
took placo or how long it took. lie was examined twico. 
It was in tho first v/eok of August and it was early in 
tho morning the first examination. 

Prosidont: You mean the first week in Soptcmbor? 

Witness: September, sir, 

A (continuing) Then there v/as a short r'ocoss and then a 
second examination took placo. 

Law Memb.T: On tho same day? . ' ,. 

Witness: Yes, sir. 

Q All rigtat. About what length of time intervened be- 
tween the first and tho second examination? 
A I don't remombor off hand, sir. I would say, — 

Q Well, was it a long period of time or can you give the 

Court some idea? 
A Oh, twenty minutes to a half-an-hour, sir, 

Q Do you rocall tho reason for that break? 
A Well, it v/as just before tho usual coffee. 

Q Nov; aftor you had that break and the usual coffee, 

what, if anything, transpired? 
A Woll, nothing, aftor wo had had our break and had had a 

chance to have our coffee, and smoke our cigarettes. 

And I returned and aakod Provost how ho was fooling and 

ho said ho was fooling all right. And then he asked 

if ho could chango his statement. 

Q Was that all that was said between you boforo Y/illlo 
Provost asked you if he could chango his statement? 

A V/oll, I went into detail a little bit, sir. I askod 

him what ho wanted to chango his statement to, if it v/as 
tho same thing taken in on the previous statement, and 
he said, "No, I want to tell all nov/." 

Q By that time, what had happened? 

A By that time, everybody had assembled back in tho inves- 
tigating room where the investigation had boon taking 
placo and I camo in and annovmcod that Provost v/anted to 

873 



change his statement. 

Q, Was he or not thereupon questioned further? 
A He was, sir. 

Q Now, Sergeant, I want you to take this statement. 
Prosecution Exhibit 36 for identification and the 
Court will permit you, I am sure, and I am going to 
ask you to take it and look it over closely, I 
mean hy that I want you to read it and I want you to 
then tell the Court whether or not that is a true 
transcript of what transpired during the time that 
Willie Prevost was examined. I want you to go over 
it carefully and I ask the Court's pardon for doing 
that, but I think it is important the witness do that, 

A I am satisfied it is, 

0, No, no; no. That won't do. I want you to read every 
page of it, 

(Witness reading document.) 

Q All right, the witness has completed. May I continue. 
Now, Sgt. Young, I will ask you v/hether or not that 
in Prosecution Exhibit 36 for identification that you 
have in your hand, whether that correctly shows the 
questions that were asked the accused, Willie Prevost, 
and the answers that were given by him on the occasion 
of this interview. 

A That is correct, sir, 

Q State to the Court whether or not at that time during 
the entire Interviev/ or at any time while the accused 
Willie Prevost was present on the day in question any- 
one said anything to him of a questionable nature, 

A No, sir, not in my presence. 

Q Oh, by the way, Sergeant, Do you recall v/ho else v/as 

present besides yourself at that time? 
A Yes, sir. There was Mr. Freeman, One of our civilian 

investigators. Mrs. Lu Henderson, stenographer. Mr. 

Benjamin Glasgow and Sgt, Plske, another Investigator 

attached to our office, 

Q Is Sgt. Fiske still there? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q What about Mr. Olson, did you mention him? 
A No, I didn't sir, 

1^ Was he there? 

A I don't remember, sir, whether he was there or not, 

Q Was Mr. Freeman there? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q And you say Mr. Glasgow was there? 
A Yes, sir. 

874 



Trial Jndpre Advocste; I believe thrt is all, if it 
please the Court. 

CROSS EXAMIFATIOF 

Questions by Defense: • . ■ 

Q Ma-"- I h^^'e that exhibit, Serpeant? Serjeant, since 
•^'-QiT left the co-<irtroon yesterda-^'-, ha-^'-e ■"■o^-' disc-iissed 
the testimon;'^ v^i ich yon '^ave this norning? 

A No, sir. 

Q Nobody at all? • , 

A No, sir. 

Q Nobod'"' has talked with yon about it in an" respect 

whatsoever? 
A No, sir. 

Q Not", on the ua^ 'Tillie Prevost vrrs dov;n in the Intel- 
ligence and Security Division, as you have testified 
here on direct exanin^tion, how many different individ- 
uals were questionin,-^ hin; you may look at the exhibit 
to refresh your recollection if yoM like. 

A Well I, so far, I didn't remember this Peter Olson. 
If I refresh my memor", — 

Q Well, all ri'^ht. I just want you to tell the Court 

how many different individuals questioned him. 
A Seven, sir. 

Q And was all of the conversation that yon had with Pre- 
vost, as well as all of the conversation that the 
other investigators had with Prevost recorded and mac'e 
a part of this transcript? 

A I didn't pet that. Will ""-ou. please repeat the question' 

Q Well, was the entire ^iroceed^"n -s that were had that 
da"" in whicli Prevost was questioned by -<'oua-Eelf and 
the other interro^-ators made a part of this transcript? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Ever^'thin'^ that was said there that uay has been taken 

down and made a part of this record? 
A Ever-"-thinp that was asked of him, ^-es, sir. 

Q And all h.is answers? 
A "^es, sir. 

Defense: If it please the Coi'rt, it is goinc to take 
me a little time to go over this. I wonder if the Court 
wants to take a little recess, and I will famniarize myself 
?/ith this. 

President: Court will recess for fifteen minutes and 
reconvene at 10:30. 

875 • 



The court then took a recess of fifteen minutes after 
which the personnel of the court, prosecution and defense, 
and the accused and the reporter resumed their seats. 

President; Is the prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Is the defense ready to proceed? 

Defense; Defense is ready, sir. 

President; Court v;/ill come to order. 

Trial Judge Advocate; Let the record show that each 
of the accused are present, that all members of the court 
are present, that all of the personnel representing the ac- 
cused as well as the personnel representing the prosecution 
5ire also present. 

Defense: Mr. Reporter, I wonder if you would read the 
last three questions and answers that were asked in my ex- 
amination so we will get the trend of what went before we 
adjourned for our recess? 

(Last three questions and answers read back as indi- 
cated, ) 

Defense; It may be stipulated, may it not, the tra- 
script I referred to was Prosecution Exhibit 36 for identi- 
fication? 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is right, 

(Sgt. Ralph E. Young resumes the stand.) 

CROSS EXAMIiTATIOlj (continuing) 

Questions by Defense; 

Q Now, Sergeant, I wish you would take this transcript 
and point out v;heroin It appears that you asked Pre- 
vost how he was feeling, that you testified on direct 
examination. 

A That was during the recess, sir. 

Q That was during the recess? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Then, there were some proceedings that do not appear 

a part of that record? 
A Well, it was stated, -- 

Q (Interposing) V/ell, it is true, isn't it, then, that 

there virere some procotidlngs there that day that do not 
appear a part of this transcript, 

A Yes, sir, at the recess. 

876 



Q Nov/, this rope that has been referred to, during the 
course of the investigation where was that rope kept? 

A The rope was kept in a box In the corner in the in- 
vestigators' office. 

Q In the rooin v;here you were examining Prevost? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Was it from tine to time lying on the table? 
A I don't remember, sir, 

Q You don't remember? 

A The rope was shown to several of tlie witnesses that 
were examined, 

Q Who shewed this rope to Prevost, was it you or some 

other examiner? 
A It was some other examiner, sir. 

Q, Well, do YOU recall who it was? 

A It was either, I think it was, -- I am not sure, but 
I think it was Ivlr, Freeman. 

Q Mr, v/ho? 

A Mr. Freeman. 

Q Well, was it during the course of Mr, Freeman's exami- 
nation of Prevost that he was asked if he could iden- 
tify the rope? 



A 

Q Well, what did Mr. Freeman do, did he go over to the 
box' and '^et the rope? ' 

A Yes sir'. The table and the desk were barring, or be- 
tween the seat and Mr. Freeman, and the corner of the 
room. That way, he would have to reach over to get 
the rope» 

Q Yes. Well, he did reach over and pull it out of the 

box? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q You recall him doing that? ' 

A Well, I don't recall in' this specific case, sir. i 
recall the rope used in, — 

q, (Interposing) V/ell, you don't recall. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Now, wait a minute. Let him 
finish answering the question. Will you finish it. Sergeant? 

Defense: Very well. 

A (Continuing) I recall the rope being introduced for 
identification several times, I am not sure whether 
it was used in this case or net. 

077 



Q You don't definitely recall then Prevost being asked 

to identify it, is that right? 
A No, sir, I don' t. ■ 

Q Well, then your statement that you made earlier this 
morning that Prevost was asked to identify a rope 
is not correct then, is that right? 

A I v/ant to impress, sir, it was used v/ith several dif- 
ferent witnesses to ask if they had ever seen the 
rope "before. I can't state whether it was used for 
Prevost on this one occasion or not. 

Q, Vvell, you v/ere at that time and before and after in- 
vestigating the death of Olivotto, weren't you? 
A That's right. 

^ And you were anxious if possible to solve that death, 

weren't ^''ou? 
A Naturally, 

Q In other words, it v/ould have been a feather in your 

cap if you could have solved it? 
A It was my duty. 

Q Well, you were extremely anxious to do so because you 
could have gotten considerable credit for doing it, 
wouldn' t you? 

A I would not have received any bonuses for it, sir, 

Q Well, I think that is probably right, Sergeant, You 
would not have got any cash bonus. But it is an 
achievement that you would have liked to have had 
very much, and you v;ould like to have performed, isn' t 
it? 

A I would like to have, 

Q And you made every possible effort to solve it? 
A I did, sir. 

Q, Well, was Prevost asked during the time that he was in 
there under questioning to identify any knives? 

A I don't remember, sir. There was two interviews. The 
first one was after Kajor, -- which was conducted by 
Maj. Manchester. After a lengthy explanation of the 
24th Article of War, which had been read and explained 
to him, 

Q Is that as shown is this transcript here? 

A Yes, sir. And after the first interview had taken 

place. Major Manchester had again questioned Prevost 
whether he v/as very well acquainted with his rights 
as a v/ltness. He ansv/ered he did knov/. And then the 
investigation was turned over to Mr. Freeman on the 
second warning, 

Q, You distinctly recall that Maj, Manchester asked Prevost 
if he was very well acquainted with his rights, as a 
witness? 

878 



A That's right, sir. 

Q Find that in that transcript. 

A (Perusing document.) V/ell, in the first statement Maj . 
Manchester says, "I will read it to you," referring to 
the 24th Article of Vi/ar, and he read the complete ar- 
ticle. And then ho asked, "Vi/ith that understanding of 
your rights, under the 24th Article of War, do you de- 
sire to make a statement, " and the answer was "Yes, 
sir." 

Q Is that the statement you referred to a moment ago 

that I asked you to find? 
A You asked me to find where he had "been advised of his 

rights. 

q Kow, you told me that Maj. Manchester had asked Prevost 
a question with respect to Provost's rights and I 
asked you to find that in the record, is that right? 

A Yes. 

Q Then is the passage you just read there the part to 

, which you just referred when you mentioned Maj. Manches- 
ter reading something to Provost about his rights? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Now read that first part in the transcript, which is 

Prosecution Exhibit 36 for identification to yourself, 
there, 

(Witness peruses document.) 

Q (Continuing) All right. You have read that now. Is 

that the complete conversation that Maj, Manchester had 
with Prevost with respect to his rights as a witness, 
or was there something else that v/as said that does not 
•ippear? 

A Well, the introduction does not appear on here, sir, 
where he said, "Good morning, Prevost," and "We have 
got you up here to ask you some questions." That does 
not appear in the statement, 

Q But everything else that was said by the Major, between 
Maj. Manchester and Prevost, v;ith the exception of the 
part you have named of the Good morning, etc., appears 
there? 

A I would say, sir, everything pertinent in the case ap- 
pears in this transcript. 

Trial Judge Advocate: You were addressing yourself to 
the question of warning. I don't believe he got that. 

Q I am addressing myself to anything Maj. Manchester may 
have said to Provost with respect to his rights as a 
witness, with respect to warning him as to what ho may 
or may not do. Is there anything that Maj. Manchester 
may have said to Prevost that does not appear in Prose- 

879 



cutlon Exhibit 36 for identification? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Oh, there Is? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Then that document that you have there is not a correct 
document of everything that took place there that day? 

A Yes, but I just told you what there was, where it 

wouldn't be in, the introduction, while Prevost was 
brought into the room and he was explained to why he 
was brought there and he was asked if he could road 
and he was told he would be read the 24th Article of 
War and- that it would be broken down and explained to 
him and, — 

Q (Interposing) Well, then, there is something more 
than just good morning, etc., that appears, or that 
happened, that does not appear in this record? 

A There v;as some minor details, 

Q Well, do you consider that a minor detail when a man 

is not being advised of his rights? 
A It is in the statement, 

Q, What do you mean by a breaking down of his rights? 
A Into words and in a meaning that Prevost would under- 
stand, 

Q Doyou consider that a minor matter? 

A No, sir, it is not minor. It was just an introduction 

to the 24th Article of War which was later read and is 

in the statement. 

Q You consider that as an introduction, which is of no 

consequence whatsoever, I take it? 
A The introduction part of it, 

Q And the explanation, to a witness, in words that he can 
understand of what his rights are as' a witness, and 
what he may do or what he may not do, is a matter that 
you don't think v/as of any consequence, was just an 
introduction, and it was not necessary to record it? 

A It was recorded, 

Q All right. You just show me where it v;as recorded in 

that record? 
A He said, "I will read it to you," and then he read the 

24th Article of War. 

Q There was other conversations with regard to the meaning 

of the- 24th Article of War, was there? 
A Before, — during the introduction of the interview, 

yes. , ' 

Q And you mean that takes place before he asks him if he 

is acquainted with the 24th Article of War? 
A That's right, sir. 

880 



■ sJ^ri 



Q You go into an explanation of what the 24th Article 
of V/ar is ""oefore you ask the man if he is acquainted 
with the 24th Article of War? 

A Then he asks him if he understands, 

(^ Now just answer my question. You go into a proceed- 
ing dov-n there, into a lengthy explanation of what 
the 24th Article of V/ar is in simple language that a 
witness can understand, and then after you are all 
through with that, then you ask the man if ho is ac- 
quainted with the 24th Article of V/ar, and then read 
it to him? 

A Ask the man if he understands what is read. 

Q Well, nov;, look at this. Prosecution Exhibit 36 for 

identification. The second question reads as follows; 
"According to Army regulations, you are entitled to 
be acquainted v/ith the 24th Article of ^^Var. Are you 
familiar with it?" Isn't that right? 

A Yes, sir. 

And then, nov; you want the Court to believe that be- 
fore that is read to him you go into a very lengthy 
explanation of what the 24th Article of ^'i:\v is? 

A Sir, you have had, — 

Q (Interposing) Now, you just answer my question? 
A I have answered as well as I can c\nd I have tried to 
point out v;hot took place. 

Q, And in those matters which you c^ve the man broak- 

dov/n of his rights under the 24th of Article of V/ar, 
you don't think those are of sufficient importance to 
include in the record? 

A Absolutely. Certainly, they could be in the record. 

Q Arc they in it? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Where? 

A Right in the center of the statement, 

Q You mean where the 24th Article of V/ar is set forth ver- 
batim? 
A Yes, sir. - ■ 

Q V/as that all that was said? 

A No, sir. . ' 

Q But you don't think it was of sufficient importance then 

to be set forth in this record. 
A I am not the one that made the record. 

Q, But, at least, they are not in that record? 

A No, sir. The 24th Article of War is in there. 

881 



Q, I notice on the last page of this your signature ap- 

pears, isn't that right? 
A That's right. 

Q What is that signature on there for? 

A To signify that I was a witness and had heard all the 
testimony. 

Q Doesn't that further certify that that is a true and 
correct copy or transcript of everything that took 
place with respect to the accused, Prevost, that day? 

A That's right. 

Q Do you have any standing Instructions down there or 
have you been given any instructions v/ith respect to 
leaving certain portions of your investigation in- 
terrogation of witnesses out of the transcript? 

A No, air. 

Q You have no standing procedure to leave that part out? 
A No, sir. 

Defense: I have no further questions. 

REDIRECT EXAMINATIOIJ 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: - 

Q Sergeant, about how long did the first interview take; 
You have testified there v/as one interview and then 
there was a break and another Interview? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Do you remember about ho'w long the first one was? 
A I would say an hour. 

Q And then you had a break that you told the court v/as a- 

bout twenty minutes? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q And then the second one was about hov; long? 
A About an hour. 

Q, That is just your estimate? 
A Yes, sir. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all. 

President: Any further questions by the defense? 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 

Questions by the President: 

Q Sgt. Young? 
A Yes, sir. 

882 



Q What is your occupation in civil life. 
A I was an interior decorator, sir. 

Q I am going to read to you Article of War 24: "Com- 
pulsory Self Incrimination Prohibited. No witness, 
before a Military Court, Commission Court, or any 
court or board, or before any officer conducting an 
investigation, or before any officer, military or 
civil, designated to take a deposition to be read 
in evidence before a Military Court, Commission 
Court, or any court or board, or before an officer 
conducting an investigation, shall be com-pelled to 
incriminate himself, or to answer any question the 
answer to which may tend to incriminate him, or 
to answer any question not material to the issue, 
when such ansv/er might tend to degrade him." I am 
going to ask you what that means. What are your 
rights? ^ 

A It means that I can make a statement If I choose and 
that that statement can be used for or against me 
in Court Martial, 

Q Is that said any place in Article of War 24, that it 

can be used against you? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Where is it said in Article of War 24? 

A It has the meaning. I don't remember the correct words, 

Q In your v/arning, or in the warnings given, — I be- 
lieve you testified that there was explanation made to 
the accused in addition to reading Article of War 24? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Was an explanation made to this effect of your own 

knowledge in addition to reading Article of War 24? 
A Explanation was made to all. 

Q Was it made to this accused of your own knowledge? 
A I would say it was. 

Q Will you tell me what explanation was made? 

A I couldn't remember the exact words. Maj. Manchester 
explained the 24th Article of Vifar and he not only read 
the Article, but explained it, telling the witness that 
anything he may, -- any incriminating evidence that he 
may bring out in his statement could be used against 
him in case of a Court Martial. 

Q Were those words used specifically or words of that 

meaning? 
A Words of that meaning. 

Q Was he specifically told that anything he said could be 

used against him in a Court Martial? 
A Yes, sir. 

883 



Q, You are sure of that? 
A Positive, sir. 

Q At any time during the investigation of the accused 

Prevost, did you advise him on v/hat type of testimony 
he should give? 

A Never, sir. 

Q Did anyone else advise him in your presence? 
A No, sir. 

Q At any time during the investigation of the accused 

Prevost, did you threaten him? 
A No, sir. 

Q, Did anyone else threaten him in your presence? 
A No, sir. . - . ■ . 

President 2 That is all. 

Questions by Lav/ Member: 

Q, Sergeant, did I understand you to say that the first 

intervle?; on September 5 was quite early in the morn- 
ing? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q About what time? 

A Between -- between about 8:00 and 9:00, or 8:30 and 
9:30; I am not sure, sir. 

Q Do you remember what instructions v/ere given Prevost 

at that time? 
A Not the exact v/ords, sir. Just the routine instructions 

that v/as given to all. 

Q Are all your instructions down there, regardless of the 
intelligence of the person whom you are examining, the 
same? 

A No, sir. liVhen I used the vi^ord "routine" I mean the 

words Laj. Manchester used in explaining the 24th Arti- 
cle of y/ar as to a soldier's rights. 

Q Can you state of your own knoviledge that at that time 
Maj. Iv'anchester in words or substance explained to 
Prevost that anything he said could or could not be 
used against hlra? 

A Maj. Manchester read the 24th Article of War. 

Q And is that all he did? 
A And explained it, sir. 

Q Tell mo, if you can, of your ov/n kno?/ledge, concerning 
Prevost, what explanations were given to Prevost on 
that morning? 

A I don't remember the exact words, sir. 

884 



Q Now, at that time, there was a question and answer 

transcription taken dovm? 
A That's right, sir. 

Q Then, as I recall it, there was a twenty -minute recess 

for coffee? 
A Yes, sir. ,- 

Q Where did Prevost go during that tv/enty-minute recess 

for coffee? 
A He was sitting, -- he was put in one of the other 

rooms. A room that had v/indows, three walls, and one 

wall of glass windows. 

Q Who was Vifith him in there? 
A He was alone, sir. 

Q Did you see him when he came out of the room? 
A Yes, sir. I passed by his door and then I remarked, 
"How are you? How are you getting along?" 

Q And after he had been in this room, approximately twenty 
to thirty minutes he told you that he Y/anted to change 
his statement? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q And v/hat did you say to him? 

A He asked, -- I went into detail to find out, I asked 
him if it was the same statement that he had already 
given, or did he v/ant to add to it or give a new state- 
ment. He said he would like to make a new statem.ent. 

Q Did you state to him v/ords or substance the statem.ent 

that he has made, the court would not believe? 
A No, sir. 

Q Nothing v;as said during that recess? ■• .' ' , ■ 
A No, sir. 

Q, But he came out of the room and said he v/anted to tell 

all? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Do you k.iow what changed his mind? 

A No, sir. He mentioned he v/anted to get it all over Y/ith. 

Q. NoY/, does Maj. Manchester give, or did he give the same 
instructions pertaining to the man's rights as a wit- 
ness to everybody, regardless of the man's education or 
intelligence, or background? 

A He did, sir. He went more in detail on cases -jvhere 
he thought the men had less schooling. 

Q Hov/ do you know what Maj. Manchester thought? 
A Well, in my acquaintance v/ith him, sir, I could, -- 
I surmised that was the reason. 

885 



Questions by Lt . Col, Stecher« 

Q, Assuming that you had given a detailed warning to one 
of the men today and then two days later that man 
again was brought in for further questioning, what 
kind of a warning would that same man get on this 
second questioning? 

A Is that in reference to the 24th Article of V/ar, sir? 

Q That's right. The general warning with reference to 
his rights. 

A He received practically the same warning he had had be- 
fore, sir. 

Q Practically? 

A The 24th Article of War would be read to him and then 

asked if he understood. And then it would be explained 

if he did not . 

Q If he said he understood, that vms accepted at par 
value? 

A I have knov;n of one case, sir, where Maj. Manchester 
was explaining to a witness for an hour and fifteen 
minutes, his rights under the 24th Article of V/ar. 

Questions by Lav/ Member: 

Q Did Prevost at any time, either before the first confer- 
ence or the one that took place after the twenty or 
thirty minute recess; did Willie Prevost ever refuse 
to ansv/er any questions? 

A I don't remember, sir. 

Q Were you present at the time that Prevost v/as asked to 

make out this statement in his ovm handwriting? 
A No, sir. 

President: Any further questions? The witness will be 
excused. 

Trial Judge Advocate : Just a moment. Just one question. 
I think Col. O'Connor asked the witness at one time if he 
could state the nature of the explanation that Maj. Manches- 
ter gave to Willie Prevost at that time and he answered, "Hot 
exactly." 

REDIREC T EXMIIUATI ON 
^Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Can you give the substance of that explanation. Sergeant? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Well, give the substance of it, will you? 

A After he v/ould read the 24th Article of War and then ask 

the witness if he fully understood his rights and he 

would go into detail, 

886 



Q All right, what detail, now tell the Court. 

A He would say, "In case of a Court Partial any incrim- 
inating evidence that may be brought against you 
can be used either for or against you in Court." 
He said, "Do you understand?" And he vmuld ansv/er 
yes or no. He v;ould inquire hov; many times they had 
heard the 24th Article of War during their Army 
career, or had read it. And he v;ould ask in some 
cases for thorn to explain to him the 24th Article of 
War. 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 

Questions by Law Member: . ' : 

Q Now, all of that v/ould take place after he had read 
the 24th Article of War to them, is that right. Ser- 
geant? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q But that does not appear in this proposed exhibit? 
A No, it doesn't. 



RECROSS EXAMINATION 



Questions by Defense^ 



Q Did Maj. Manchester, Sergeant, on this occasion tell 

Prevost that if he made any statement that that state- 
ment might be used against him? 

A I can't say yes or no to this specific case, sir. Be- 
cause it v/as a rule that he did explain and ask that 
question to all witnesses. 

Q I want you to repeat again for the Court, now, the sub- 
stance of what you just answered in reply to Col. 
Jaworski ' s question as to what took place dovm there 
on that day with respect to the 24th Article of War| 
just repeat that again, will you please? 

A The 24th Article of War was read to the viritness. The 
witness was then asked if he understood it. According 
to the answer, yes or no, would depend on just how 
far into detail the Major would have to go. 

Q Well, I don't want you to tell what happened generally. 

I want you to tell the same procedure that took place 

there that day that you just ansv/ered in reply to Col. 

Jav/orski's question? 
A Well, the 24th Article of War was read and the Major 

asked him if he fully understood his rights under the 

24th Article of War. 

Q That is all that took place? 

A You said in substance, sum and substance. That was the 
sum and substance. 

887 



Q I v/anted you to repeat the procedure that took place 
there that day in Just exactly the same manner that 
you responded to the question that Col. Jaworski 
asked you; have you forgot what that question was? 

A I don't remember the exact words. 

Defense " All right. Mr. Stoddard will you go back 
and find that, and read it for us, please? 

(Question referred to was found and read back to the 
witness. ) 

Q Do you understand the question? 
A Yes. 

^ All right. Now you give the same explanation you gave 
to Col. Jav/orski's question. 

A After the 24th Article of War v/as read, Maj. Manchester 
asked the witness if he understood fully his rights, 
and that any statement made could be used either for 
or against him in case of a Court Martial. 

Q Is that all? 

A I think that is all I said, sir. 

Q Well, you just got through answering in res ponse to 
one of my questions that you don't remember v/hether 
Maj. Manchester asked him on that day if he understood 
that any ansv/ers he made or gave could be used against 
him. 

A I can't remember the name of the witness. 

Q Didn't Col. Jaworski ask you to tell in substance what 

took place dov.-n there that day with Prevost? 
A That's right. 

Q And isn't that v^rhat you v;ere attempting to answer? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Were you giving me an answer of something different 

than v/hat I asked you? 
A No, sir. 

Q Do you understand that I want to knoii, and I want you 
to repeat the sam.e answer that you gave Col. Jaworski 
as to what transpired on the 5th of September, while 
you were examining Willie Prevost v/ith respect to any 
rights that were explained to him under the 24th Ar- 
ticle of War, any warnings that v/ere given to him, in 
the same manner that you responded to Col. Jaworski ' s 
question? 

A I think I have done that, sir. 

Q And that is v/hat you intended to do v/hen you ansv-fered 

my question a moment ago? 
A That's right. 

888 



Q But dic3n't you say to me a little while ago on cross 
examination that you did not recall whether Ha J. Man- 
chester explained to Prevost that any statement that 
he might make could he used against him? 

A I mentioned it, sir, that each and every witness that 

was ever brought to the Intelligence Office was always 
advised of the same rights. 

Q Well, now, didn't you tell me just a little while ago, - 
now, let's just forget this other, — that with respect 
to Prevost that you could not recall vrhether Maj. Man- 
chester explained to Prevost the fact that any state- 
ment he might make might be used against him; didn't 
you tell me that or didn't you? 

A If I, -- 

Q (Interposing) Fow, wait a minute. My question can be 

answered yes or no. 
A I didn't understand the question, if I told you no. 

Q You didn't understand the question? 
A No, sir. 

Q Well, Y/hat is the fact, did that take place that day or 
did it not, or do you know? 

A I can only answer, sir, that in every case of any wit- 
ness brought to our office, -- 

Q, (Interposing) Now, my question was, -- 

Trial Judge Advocate (interposing): Vi/ell, let hirn fin- 
ish his answer, coionsel. 

Defense: All right, why not? 

A (Continuing) That way, I can't tell from one man to 
another what is said individually in words. 

Q Then you have no recollection of anything definite that 

took place that day Prevost was there? 
A Not word for word, no. 

Q Well, I will ask you once again, then, Sergeant. On 

September 5, while Willie Prevost was being exam.ined in 
that room, did Maj. Manchester, if you know, explain 
to Prevost that any statement he might make could be 
used against him? 

A If it were a bet, sir, I would lay my life on it. 

Q You feel that positive on it? 
A That's right. 

Q You don't know Maj. Manchester was already testified 
he did not? 

Trial Judge Advocate: He' did not testify to that. I 

889 



will be glad to stand on the record in that respect. 

Defense: Well, let us put Maj. Manchester back on the 
stand and ask him then. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right, suppose you do. 

Defense: All right. I have no further questions of 
this v/itness. 

President: Witness will be excused. 

There being no further questions, the witness was excused 
and withdrew. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Would you ask Maj. Manchester 
to come back in, please? 

Major Robert H, Manchester resumes the stand. 

Trial Judge Advocate: You are reminded you are still 
under oath. Major? • 

Witness: Yes, sir. 

RECROSS EXAMINATION 

Questions by Defense: - " / 

Q Now, Maj. Manchester, on September 5, when Willie Pro- 
vost was being examined at your office, did you or did 
you not at the time that you were explaining the 24th 
Article of War to him advise him that any statement 
he might make could be used against him? 

A I do not recall that I did, sir. 

Q Didn't you say yesterday that your recollection was 

that you did not ask him that question? 
A I stated yesterday my recollection was I did not ask 

him that question. 

Defense: Yes, that is all. •• ' 

REDIRECT EXAMHTATIOIT 
Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Major, do you have any independent recollection of 

what you said to any particular accused? 
A In reference to an explanation of the 24th Article of 

War, sir? 

Q That is right, yes. 

A No, sir. The sum and substance of each explanation was 
the same. 

Q Will you give that sum and substance of that explanation 

890 



to each \vitness to the Court now? 
A After reading the 24th Article of War, and after the 
accused or defendant would state that he understood 
it, I would attempt to make certain that he understood 
it by telling him that the meaning of the 24th Article 
of War was such and such, and that he did not have to 
make a statement unless he so desired. That he was 
at liberty to leave the room, stating that he did not 
desire to make a statement. That if he did leave the 
room, he v/ould not be subject to any action or insubord- 
ination- That any statement he made would be necessari- 
ly free and voluntary, of his own. accord. That for 
the time being, or the period of time he was in the 
room for the purpose of being examined, that he was 
the top man in the United States Army, or in that 
room, because he v/as in a position to exercise his priv- 
ileges or his rights In refusing to testify. Now, 
those words are not given to each and every accused, 
that is the sum and substance. It v/as the basis of 
the informal explanation that I gave to them after hav- 
ing read the 24th Article of War to them. 

Q State whether or not that explanation would at times 
vary because of the type of accused before whom, or 
whom you had before you. 

Defense 2 Objected to as leading and improper. 

Law Member: Objection overruled. 

A Sir, it v/ould not vary, due to the type of accused who 
was being questioned, or whom 7/e were about to ques- 
tion. It varied as to what came Into my mind, as to 
what a proper explanation of the 24th Article of War 
was concerned. In other words, I read from no script. 
I had no memorized sentences that I read. In some 
Instances, it was short and in others it was lengthy. 
If some other clearer explanations would come to my 
mind, I v/ould continue ¥/ith them. 

Q, State whether or not you ever examined a single ac- 
cused in connection with this matter without giving 
him an explanation of Article of War 24. 

A I did not. 

Q Are you positive of that? 
A I am certain of that. 

Q Are you positive that you did not stop with a mere 
reading of the 24th Article of War to some of thorn? 

Defense: If the court please, I think that is leading 
and suggestive. 

Law Member: I think it is leading. 

Q All right, state whether or not there were times when 
you merely read the Article of War 24 to the accused? 

891 



A Without supplementing it with an explanation? 

Q That :.s righc . 

A No,, sir 1 did not„ 

Q Are you positive of that? 
A I am certain of that. 

Q Now in connection with your explanation to the accused, 
what reference, if any, did you make to the possible 
use 01 the statement? 

Defense: Are you speaking about this accused? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I am speaking about all 
accused. 

Defense: I object, then, if the Court please. We are 
only concerned with this accused. 

Law Member: Objection overruled. 

Q Will you answer that please. Major? 
A Will you repeat the question? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Will you read the question to 
him, Mr. Reporter? 

(Last question read back.) 

A 1 don't believe I made any reference as to the possible 
use of the statement other than stating that the proced- 
ure was to be coneid.^red a formal investigation. A 
stenographer was taking down the testimony, the ques- 
tions and answers as they were given and I am certain 
that I left at that point, 

Q Now do you rccd.l.. rnyohing at all as to the particular 
situation regarding the accused Viiliio Provost, Major 
Manchester? In other vords, you nave given the Court 
now what you do in all instances. Is there anything 
that you recall with respect to the accused Willie Pre- 
vost that wae in any sense different from the usual 
procedure? If so, I wish you would tell the Court 
about it. 

A No, sir, there wasn't. 

q, All right. 

A (Continuing) The explanation of the 24th Article of 

War nay have been longer or it may have been shorter 

than other cases. 

Q If it was shorter, in vjhat respect xvould it have been 

shorter? 

A It would have been shorter in the manner in v/hich I gave 

it. In other words, those statements or those explana- 

892 



tions were given If the accused constantly arreed 
through a nodding of his head that he understood and 
had previously stated that he understood the 24th 
Article of War, I did not go into it at length. If 
there seeined to be some doubt in his mind, as there 
viras in the case of one accused, v/hy, then, I talked 
at length as to things that came to my mind, 

q All right. 

A I recall nothing different in the case of Willie Pre- 
vost than the case of other accused who were examined 
during the time that I was held responsible for the 
criminal phase of the investigation. 

Q All right. Now, Ma J. Manchester, I believe you stated 
to the Court yesterday that you. did not recall asking 
the accused Willie Provost any questions after this 
^7arnlng 'ivas given? 

A That is correct, sir, 

q And I believe you stated to me this morning that you 

left, and that you wore in error about that? 
A I did, sir. 

Q Do you have any statement you v/ish to make to the Court 
on that nov/? 

A Yes, sir. I would like permission of the Court to cor- 
rect myself on certain testimony that I gave yesterday 
relative to the statement taken from the accused 
Willie Prevost. In my testimony yesterday, as I re- 
call it, I stated I read the accused the 24th Article 
of War and then gave him an explanation of it, to the 
best of my ability. I stated that I immediately left 
the room at that time. For ^I'hat purpose I left the 
room, I did not knov/, whether it was a call from head- 
quarters or a call from Maj. Crav/ford, I don't knov/. 
But since that time, I have refreshed my memory, I 
have referred to the statement taken of Willie Prevost 
and I find th^-re was an error in my testimony yesterday, 
I did question Willie Prevost as to his whereabouts 
on the night of August 14, 1944, after he had agreed 
to make his statem.ent, knowing his rights under the 
24th Article of War. In response to my questions, 
Willie Prevost gave me certain answers, which to my 
knov^ledge were m.ade part of a record. At the conclu- 
sion of that, I left the room and the questioning, 
as I stated before, at that time was turned over, or 
the continued questioning was turned over to the in- 
vestigators v/ho were in the room. The error i wish to 
correct is the one I just related, is that 1 did 
question Willie Prevost as to where he was on the 
night of August 14, 1944, between certain hours. 

Q Is that all that you v/ish permission to correct? 
A That is all that I request permission to correct. 

Trial Judge Advocate: No further questions. 

893 



RECROSS SMMINATION 
Questions l-.y Defense: 

Q Which of the recused do you recall here, the unusual 

cases? 
A Here? 

o Yes? 

A In 'vhat 7'aj do you rier.n unusual? 

q Well, you spoke c. moment ego thf.t there were some ac- 
cused thr.t vere unusual, — 

LcAv Ivlenbep: (Intenosinc) Nov/ the only purpose of 
this questioning, -- and I don't care who the names are, -- 
hut it is to test the credibility of the l.Iajor and it v/ill 
be only for that reason the question is allowed, 

Q, Do you renemher the question? 

A Yes, sir. Well, I an trying to think right now. There 

were possibly seventy-five soldiers and it takes me 

among then all, — 

Q I understand. 

A My best recollection of a soldier to whom I talked Is 

a man who is not in the courtroom, ""'/lio is not accused, 
I refer to Thomas Battle. I asked him If he was famil- 
iar with his ri^:ht3, -- 

Q (Interposing) Well, I am not asking you to go into 

detail. 
A I thought you wanted something that made it unusual. 

Q Well, I haven't any objection, unles.T the Court does 
not v/ant 770U to do that. 

Law Member: Does that answer your question. 

Witness: I was attempting to mev-ely support my opinion 
that it was unusual, • 

Q, Yes. Well o.bout how long did ^'-ou explain to Battle, — 

how long did it take you to read your explanation and 

his rights to him? 
A The entire explanation took, v/itb. questions and answers 

relative to the 24th Article of War, took possibly 

twenty-five m-inutes. 

Twenty-five minutes? 

A That is a rough guess. If someone comes m and testifies 
it is forty minutes, why they can be right too. 

q Vi'ere there any other unusual cases there with reference^ 

to the accused that you have thought of? 
A You are still having" reference to the 24th Article of 

?/ar? 

894 



Q Yes, the explanation to a man of his rights and warning. 
A There are others that do not come to my mind at this 
time, 

Q What Is the longest period of time that you recall 

that you ever consumed In explaining to a witness his 
rights under the 24th Article of War, or v/arnlng him? 

Trial Judge Advocate: You mean in connection with 
this Investigation, don't you? 

Defense: No, any other things. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Now, listen, let's get this 
right. 

Defense: I have a very definite purpose in connection 
with the questioning. 

Lav/ Member: It v/ould just be collateral, wouldn't it? 

Defense: I don't think it is. 

Law Member: All right, the objection is overruled. The 
longest time in your life that you have ever questioned a 
witness, now, Major? 

Q No, that wasn't the question, if the Court please. The 
longest time that he ever recalls that he consumed in 
explaining to a witness his rights under the 24th 
Article of War and explaining and v/arning him. 

Lav/ Member: All right. The longest period in your 
lifetime that you have explained or consiomed in explaining 
to a witness the 24th of Article of War and his rights, and 
warning him, 

Q I will limit it to Seattle and while he was here, 
A The case of Thomas Battle, possibly twenty to twenty- 
five minutes • * 

Defense: That is all, 

EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 

Questions by Law Member: 

Q Did you hire Mrs. Henderson to take this testimony, or 
arrange for her to do that? 

A Yes, sir, V/e made a request and Maj. Crawford had made 
the request to the civilian personnel branch of the 
Seattle Port of Embarkation, for stenographic help. 

Q And then you say that after the 24th Article of War 

was read to a proposed witness, you made. In all cases 
explanations to the v/ltness as to his rights, is that 
correct? 

A That is correct, sir, 

895. 



Q, Viflll you give me your reason v/hy In the Instant pro- 
posed exhibit nothing appears therein about your ex- 
planations to Prevost as a w itness, other than reading 
the 24th Article of War? 

A That appears as It does mainly because of my statement 
or answer to a question of R'Irs. Henderson, as to 
whether or not my conversation before the taking of 
the statement vifas necessary, 

Q And you believe that any conversation that you had 

with the proposed witness relative to your Instructions 
to the v/itnesE of his rights vi/as not necessary to 
appear in the record? 

A I did not feel it was, so long as the reading of the 
24th Article of War shov/ed in the record and that I 
had read it to him. That was my sincere opinion, 

Q, Do you believe nov/ that merely reading the 24th Article 

of War is sufficient instructions to any witness? 
A If he says he understands it, yes, sir, 

Q Regardless of his intelligence, regardless of his pre- 
vious education and training and background? 
A No, sir, that should be taken into consideration, 

Q If it is taken into consideration don't you believe 

that that should shov^r in the record? 

A In view of the present controversy over the fact that 

I did not have it in the record, sir, I would say yes. 

President: Any further questions? V/itness will be 
excused for tlie present. 

Trial Judge Advocate: You may be excused for the 
present, Major, 

Defense: May I be excused for a couple of minutes? 

President: Court will take a brief recess, remaining 
seated. 

The court then took a brief recess, after which the 
personnel of the court, prosecution and defense, and the ac- 
cused and the reporter resumed their seats. 

President: Court will come to order. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the Court show that each of 
the accused is present, that all members of the Court are 
present, that the personnel representing the accused as well 
as the personnel representing the Prosecution are present, 

(P. J. Freeman, a witness for the Prosecution, v/as 
sworn and testified as follows:) 

896 



DIRECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Give us your name, please? 
A F. J. Freeman (spelling), 

Q Where are you employed, Mr. Freeman? 

A Intelligence Security Division, Seattle Port of Embarka- 
tion. 
Q And how long have you been so employed? 
A Not quite two years, 

Q, Mr. Freeman, do you recall the incident involving a 
group of Negro soldiers that took place out at Ft, 
Lawton on or about August 14, 1944? 

A I do, 

Q, Were you called upon at any time to participate in an 

investigation relating to that matter? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q, Did you or not at any time qiiestion any of the Negro 
soldiers from the Port Companies out there in connec- 
tion with that matter? . 

A I did, 

Q, Do you recall v/hether or not one of the Negro soldiers 

who v/as questioned on that matter v/as Willie Prevost, Sr, 

A I do, yes, sir, 

Q, Were you or not present at the time of the interview 

that was had with Willie Prevost, Sr? 
A I was . 

Q, Do you recall Y>?hether or not you asked the accused 

Willie Prevost, Sr, , any questions at the time of that 
interview? 

A I did, 

Q, Do you recall ■v<iho else was present at the time of the 
interview v/ith the accused, Willie Prevost, Sr? 

A At the beginning. Major Manchester was there, Mrs, 
Henderson, the stenographer. Edv/ard Springer, an 
investigator. Sgt. Young, a military investigator, 
Mr, Glasgov/, an investigator, --Ben Glasgow. I am 
pretty positive Mr. Olson was there, Peter Olson, 
and Sgt. Fiske, 

Q Novt/, state v/hat the connections v/ere that these various 
individuals you have named had, in other words, do you 
know v/ith v;hat office or offices they were connected, 
and v/hat their work was? 

A Yes, sir. They v/ere all connected with the Port of Em- 
barkation Investigation Branch, 

897 



EF 



Q, You moan all tho men you have named? 
A The men I have named, yes, the men, 

Q How about Mrs. Henderson? 

A rirs. Henderson was being used as stenographer and I think 
that she v/as from the Overseas Supi^ly Division. 

Q, I see. Was or vi/as not, -- 

Defense: Could I see that for a moment, please? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I was goin^ to use this. 

Defense: I am sorry, I vdll wait, . " 

Q Was or not the testimony elicited from the v/itncss at 

that time transcribed? 
A It was, 

Q, Now, Mr, Freeman, I ar.i -^oing to ask you to look at 
what has been marked "Piosecution Exhibit 36" for 
identification, and I want you to look at it, by 
reading it, because I want you to be able to tell 
this Court some facts, after yo\i have read this ex- 
hibit. I v/ant you to bo able to identify it, 

(V/itness peruses doctimcnt.) 

President: It appears that the witness has finished 
reading Exhibit 36 for identification. The Court will now 
recess and recoiivcne at 1:30 

The Court then took a recess from 12:02 P. M. to 1:30 
P. M., at which hour the Personnel of tho Court, Prosecution 
and Defense, and tho accused and the reporter resumed their 
seats. 

President: Is the Prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Tho Prosecution is ready, sir. 

President : Is the Defonse ready to proceed? 

Defense: The Dufcnse is ready, sir. 

President: Tho Court will come to order. 

(The roll of the accused is called by the Assistant Trial 
Advocate, and all were present. ) 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let thu record shovir that each 
of the accused is present, that all members of the Court 
are present, that the personnel representing the accused as 
v/ell as the personnel representing the Prosecution are also 
present, 

898 



DIRECT EXAMINATION . - 
(continuing) 

QuGstions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Mr. Freeman, you arc reminded you arc still under oath? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, have you, before the noon recess read what was 

passed to you. Prosecution Exhibit 36 for identifica- 
tion. I asked you to read that and did you read it your- 
self and become familiar with it? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q I will ask you whether or not Prosecution Exhibit 56 

represents the questions and answers that v/ere asked of 
the accused Willie Pre vest, and the answers that he 
gave at the time you told the Court about this morning? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q Now, Mr. Freeman, during the cotirsc of that interview, 
I will ask you whether or not you or anyone else at 
any time threvi/ a rope in the accused Prevost's lap and 
told him that he v/ould be charged v;ith murder, or could 
bo, or Yifords to that effect? 

A I did not, 

Q Are you positive of that? 
A Positive. 

Q Did you or anyone else at any time tell the accused 
Willie Prevost that when a rope v/ould be around his 
neck he would remember more than he had told in that 
interview? 

A No, sir. 

Q You are positive nothing like that occiorred? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Did you at any time tell the accused Prevost that an 

Italian had identified him and that the Court would ac- 
cept the Italian's v/ord in preference to his? 

A No, sir. 

Q You are positive nothing like that ever occurred? 
A I don't think, --no, sir, I know it didn't. 

Q Was the accused Willie Prevost or not at any time 

during that interview threatened In any manner, 
A Ho was not, 

Q Were there or not any offers of reward or benefit of 
any kind held out to the accused V/lllie Prevost if he 
would make a statement? 

A None vi;hatever, 

Q Mr, Freeman, what was your work before you came to the 

899 



Seattle Port of Embarkation? 
A I was an investigator. In the District Attorney's Office. 

Q, Where? • . • 

A Longvlev;, Texas. 

Q And for hov/ long did you do that type of v/ork? 
A That type of work, I was at about twelve years, 

Q Oh, yes. Now prior to the time that the accused Willie 
Provost made any statement during that session, was he 
or not given any warning or explanation of his rights 
as a witness? 

A Under the 24th Article of War, ho was. It was road to 
him and several statements were told him explaining it. 
Such as, that ho did not have to answer any questions 
if he did not care to. That if he wanted to, that he 
could leave the room and there would be nothing said 
in regards to It and it could not be held against him, 
and various other things of that nature were said in 
order to be assured that he understood his rights. 

Q Nov/, who made those statements, or gave those explana- 
tions, to him? 
A Maj. Manchester, 

Q, Now there was one interview, --let me refresh you on 
that. Was there any break in the interview that was 
had of Willie Prevost, and by break, I moan was there 
any recess at any time, or was it just a continuous 
interview? 

A There was a recess. I Imagine about 10:00 o'clock. Wo 
usually had them about 10:00 or 10:15 to get coffee. 

Q You mean the recess was about 10:00 or 10:15? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Did you, or were you present when the accused V/illlc 

Provost was questioned after the recess? 
A I was . 

Q, Did you at any time have occasion to say anything to the 
accused Willie Prevost with respect to his rights as a 
v/ltness? 

A I did, v;hen he came back, v/hon he was brought back In. 
I told him, when it was understood that ho wanted to 
make another statement that he still had his rights under 
the 24th Article of War and that anything ho said could 
bo used against him, or for him, in case of a Court 
Martial. 

Q Was Maj. Manchester present at that second time? 
A Maj. Manchester was not present at that time. 

Trial Judge Advocate: The prosecution has no further 
questions, if it please the Courts 

900 



CROSS EXAMINATION 

O^uestlons by Defense: 

Q, You remember everything that happened on that day, Mr, 

Freeman, quite distinctly? 
A v/ell, I wouldn't say that I remember everything, 

Q Well, the things that you have testified to on direct 

examination you remember quite distinctly? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q, Was there a rope in the room where Prevost was being 
examined? 

A There viras, two, 

n Was either one of the ropes given to Prevost for the 

purpose of identification? 
A I don't think they were given to him. They v/ere laying 

on the table by him, 

Q Was he asked a question by yourself or anyone else as 

to whether he could Identify either one of those ropes? 
A I don't believe that he was, 

Q, You don't have any recollection of any question being 

asked him about the rope at all? 
A Not Prevost, I do not. 

Q, Now you think it was about 10:00 o'clock you took a 

recess? 

A Approximately that. That was our usual time to take a 

recess, around 10:00 o'clock, 

^, By usual -- 

A (Interposing) The usual recess is about fifteen minutes 
and we had no certain length of time. Everybody had to 
go dovmstairs and then out about a city block away to 
get a cup of coffee. 

Q Did it often last longer than fifteen or twenty minutes? 
A Oh, yes. 

Q What v/ould be the length in the ordinary course of events 

that you would take for a cup of coffee? 
A Well, it would depend on circumstances. If anything would 

come up between then -- 

Q, Well, let us confine oxirselves as best to your recollec- 
tion of this day. 
A Oh, I would say thirty to forty minutes. 

Q, Thirty to forty minutes? 
A Something like that, 

Q Was that unusual or out of the ordinary? 
A Well, no, not necessarily, 

901 



Q You usually took thirty to forty minutes every forenoon 

of the working day for coffee? 
A That's right. ". • 

Q, And also during the afternoon? 

A There vjas a recess. It wasn't necessarily just for cof- 
fee, thirty or forty minutes. 

Q Well how as it on this particular day you were 

questioning Willie Prevost that you took thirty to forty 

minutes for coffee? 
A I couldn't say exactly. Major Manchester was examining 

the man and he got out of the room and that is possibly 

why vi/e didn't start before. 

Q As a matter of fact, you took quite a long time that 

day? 
A V/e took quite a long time. 

Q You did not then convene back until about 11:00 o'clock? 
A I wouldn't say positively. 

Q, If the record shows that you reconvened at 10:45 that 

would be correct? 
A Probably vifhen the statement was started that would be 

about right. 

Q Who was the first individual questioning Prevost that day? 
Maj. Manchester. 

Q And who followed him? • ' • 

A I did. 

Q And then after you were through, vifho took him on then? 
A I believe Glasgow. 

Q Mr, Glasgow? Then after Mr. Glasgow got through v/ith 

him who took him on? 
A Well, I couldn't say exactly who was the next one. But 

Sgt. Young was there, Sgt. Plske was there. Mr. Olson 

was there. 

Q And you all took him on at different times, you took 

turns questioning him? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Who examined him just before you had your recess for a 
cup of coffee? 

A I remember of one instance that I questioned him, asking 
him two or three extra questions, but I don't remember 
whether that Y>fas just previous to the coffee or not. 

Q You haven't any recollection of that? 
A I am not positive of it, 

Q Well, when you came back to ask him the two or three 
extra questions, do you recall what you talked to him 

902 



about? 
A ITo, sir, I don't know the questions* It v/as in regard 
to some of his answers, 

Q Well, as a matter of fact it was Glasgov/ that talked 

to him just before you had the recess * 
A I wouldn't say. 

Q Vifell, you did road this record over to refresh your 

recollection just before the noon recess? 
A That's right. 

Q But you are still not able to recall? 

A Not the last man that questioned hin before recess. 

Q VJcll, as a matter of fact, do you recall Glasgow asking 

him if ho had a knife just before recess? 
A I don't recall. 

Q, Let me ask you this. Lot me ask you if this was not 
asked by Glasgow just before recess, "V/hat v/as the 
reason you left the barracks the first time. A: You 
mean before the Major come, --" 

Lav/ Member (interposing): How, Major, the ruling still 
holds that the Court is not interested in the contents of 
that exhibit. 

Defense: I think I have a right to tost the witness's 
recollection? 

Law Member: VJoll, Major, I hope you understand, I am do- 
ing all in my power to do everything to keep anything from' 
getting into the record that would bo in any v/ay or manner, 
shape or form prejudicial to the rights of your accused or of 
Provost, 

Defense: It is the Court's ruling that I cannot go in- 
to any of the statements that took place at the time of this 
examination? 

Law Member: That is not my ruling, I should think. Major, 
that y6u would understand what I am trying to do, after what 
I said, I had hoped you would understand the ruling I made. 
This statement is' incriminating and it is not at the present 
time in the record, and the Court does not wish to hear it in 
the record, or hear it. 

Defense: Am I to be permitted to ask any questions with 
regard to what Glasgow said before the recess was taken? 

Law Member: No, because the truth or voracity of this 
present exhibit is not the issue, the sole issue is whether 
or not this statement or the preceding offered exhibit was 

903 



made voluntarily. 

Defense: Very well, I v/ill abide by the Court's ruling, 

Q Now do you recall the first question that was asked 
Prevost after you came back from your coffee recess? 

A I can't give the exact words of it but I can tell you 
the idea of it. 

Q Well, before he made any statement, you warned him of 

his rights? 
A That is right. 



-o-^ 



Q Well, tell the Court just exactly what it v;as that you 
said to him? 

A The exact words, I couldn't say. But I know that he 

was warned of his rights under the 24th Article of War 
that he did not have to make a stat-aent. He did not 
have to even ansvirer any questions ut ..11 if he didn't 
care to. That his rights under the 24th Article of 
War protected him against incriminating himself In 
any way and that any statement that he did make could 
be used against him, 

Q Well, who was present at the time that you made such 

a declaration to Prevost? 
A I remember definitely that Sergeant Yoiing was there. 

And that Glasgow v/as there. There was another one 

there, but I wouldn't,--! am not positive that it was 

Piske or Springer. 

Q Well, was Prevost sitting dovm at the table at that time? 
A He came in and set beside the table, 

Q He came in and sat beside the table? 
A Got up like that (indicating). 

Q Was that facing you? 

A T|o, I v;as facing the slue like you arc facing me? 

Q I see. You were at the side but nevertheless facing 

him? 
A Yes. I was facing him at an angle, 

Q I want you to take this record, Prosucution Exhibit 36 
for identification and which you have told the Court 
everything that took place that day, and chow the Court 
wherein anything was said in there where you told 
Prevost anything about his rights under the 24th Article 
of War. 

A I told him, but it was in the course of the explanation 
and then, later, --and that he wouldn't have to come 
back and so forth, or do anything further, but I mean 
the warnings were the same thing, 

904 



*v 



^ 



Q Oh, your warnings are not in the record? 

A They had the same rights and this is a general contin- 
uation. 

Q So that your general practice every time you warn a man 
down there is to leave it out of the record? 

A We had it in the first part of the record and it was 
merely a continuation of what had already been told 
him. 

Q And then you just came back and started questioning 

him about the facts and circumstances? 
A That's right. 

Defense; That is all. 

Trial Judge Advocate: The Prosecution has no further 
questions, if it please the Court. 

President; Any further questions? 

Major McLennan: I have a question. 

EXAl-IINATION BY THE COURT 

Q,uestions by McLennan r 

Q Mr, Freeman, you testified here both on direct examina- 
tion and on cross examination that you personally brought 
to the accused Willie Prevost's attention his rights 
under the 24th Article of War, is that correct? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q You arc positive as to that? 
A Yes. 

Q And are you likewise positive that you included in your 
warning a definite statement to Prevost that any state- 
ment he made, written or oral, could be used for or against 
him? 

A I didn't use those words. 

Q Did you use that intention? 

A Any statement that he made could be used against him. 

Q You are positive of that? 
A Yes, sir. 

Major McLennan: That is all I have, 

Questions by the President: 

Q, I have a question or two. Why was Prevost left alone 

in that room during the coffee hour? 
A Why was he left aloneV 

Q Yes? 

A Well, that is where we left them all while we were 

905 



questioning then, 

Q Were there other people in that roori on that day? 
A I beg your pardon? 

Q V/ere there otlier people in that room on that day or 

was Prevost the only one that was there? 
A At that particular time, I couldn't say. 

Q Was it cuptoraary to leave hlra alone, — I will withdraw 
that question, 

president: I have no further questions. 

Defense: I would like to ask him a question or two. 

RECROSS EXAIIIKATIOIT 

Questions by Defense: 

Q Did anything occur during the recrss, did you have any 

conversations v/lth Pi'cvost? .... 

A No, sir, 

Q Did anyone else that you know of? 

A I couldn't sa3'-. He was taken out of the room and after 

that time, in the investigation room, I did not go in 

there. 

Q Just before the recess, don't ycu recall he was being 
asked generally with respect to a knife, v^hethor he 
owned a knife or not? 

A It seom-s to me he was asked if he had a knife or some- 
thing like that. , , . 

Law l.Iember: Nov/, Major, the Court is not interested in 
that . 

Defense: Y/ell, I am just going into it generally. I 
am not going to pin him down to any particular question. 

Law Member: It seems to me quite specific. Major, you 
understand my position in this, don't you? 

Defense: I do understand, but I also have a right to 
go into this witness' credibility and recollection, I believe. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well, I am just wondering if 
counsel wants to, by his questions, get this statement in evi- 
dence, which is just v/hat he is doing. Goimsel is astute 
and he knows very well what he is doing and if ho wants to 
get this statement in the record, despite the Law Member's 
warning, I think he ought to be permitted to do it, I think 
he is getting the statement in piecemeal by reference to It, 

Lav7 Member: V/ell, regardless of the actions of defense 
counsel, it is a duty of the Law Member to equ.ally protect 
the rights of the accu.sed and I am going to do it. 

906 



J 



Trial Judge Advocatu: Well, I thinic you have dono it, 
too, to thu fullest extent. 

Dof onso : Are you through? 

Cj, (continuing) Nevertholuss, after you got back from 

that recess, the first question that was asked Prevost 
at this time was "Do you, Willie Prevost, wish to change 
the statement that you gave here about a half-an-hour 
ago," v>;asn' tit? 

A The first question? 

Q Yes, the first question. 

A Oh, I think there was some conversation previous to 
that. 

Q, All right. Look at thu record and find it. 
A I talked to the man, -~it isn't ia tnere. 

Q. Oh, that is the first one th; t is in the record anyhow, 

isn' t it? 
A Yes. 

Defense: That is all. 

iCXAI-'UNilTIOn BY TII^ COURr 

Questions by Law lAember: . . • 

Q, Prior to the recess, Mr. Freeman, had there been a 

complete statement? 
A You mean had the statement been completed? 

Q , Correct. 

Defense: Now, before he answers that question, if the 
Court please, if the Court is going into that, how am I 
going to protect riy own client, if you go into that. 

Law Member: At the suggestion of D.-;fense Counsel, I 
am not going to ask any more questions. 

President: Any further questions? If not, the witness 
will be excused. 

There being no further questions, t:ij witness was excused 
and withdrew. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Major Boeks, will you step up to 
up to the bench, please? 

(Whispered discussion.) 

President: At the present time it will be necessary 
that all person lol, except thj accused. Defense Counsel, mem- 
bers of the Prosecution, the court reporter, and members of 
the Court, be excluded from the courtroom, I v\/ill have to 

907 



aak all of yo-u to leave. It will be a short period of time 
before you \vlll be allowed back in, 

(All those in attendance in the courtroom are excluded 
pursuant to the above.) 

Law Member: Now, I vrould like to ask you this again. 
Just to get it straight. Major. 

(Miispered discussion.) ' ' ,-, 

■ -*' 

Mr. Benjamin J. Glasgov/, a witness for the Prosecution, 
was sworn and testified as follows: 

DIRECT EXAI.IINATI ON -■' - 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Will you step up to the reporter a-id give him your 

name? 
A (Witness steps up close to Reporter), Benjamin J. 

Glasgow, 

Defense; Now, it is stipulated between Counsel for 
the Prosecution and Counsel for the Defense that the v/itness 
has been present in the courtroom up to and including the 
closing of the Court on November 29th, or up to and includ- 
ing some part of the afternoon of November 29th. 

President: That is, when his name was mentioned, and -- 
is that correct? 

Defense: Yes. And the Defense makes the same objection 
to this witness testifying as has heretofore been made 
with respect to the witness, Sgt. Young. 

Law Member: Well, I say now the same ruling that v/as 
made in the case of Sgt. Young Is made in this case subject to 
any objection by any member of the Court; that ruling is made 
to this witness. 

President: Are there any objections by any member of 
the Court? There appear to be none, the ruling of the Law 
Member is the ruling of the Court. 

Lav; Member: Now, I think the accused should hear what 
has been said up here. Will you read it to them, Mr. Stoddard? 

(Proceedings from the time of the beginning of the 
closed session were read up to this point.) 

Law Member: Now, I say this to the accused, the pre- 
sent witness is employed by the War Department and there is 
a ruling in the War Department that his name cannot be 
mentioned or made public and they are very strict on that 
and that is the reason why, at the present time, the courtroom 
has been cleared, of all except you boys, the accused; the 

908 



Court, the reporter, and Counsel for the Prosecution and the 
Counsel for the accused. You understand that? 

(Voices of accused respond, "Yes.") 

Q Did you or not have occasion to assist in an Investiga- 
tion that was made of an Incident that involved the 
entry of some Negro soldiers in the Italian area at 
Pt. Lawton, on Au:;ust 14, 1944. 

A I did. 

Q, In connection with your work, as a part of that inves- 
tigation did you or not have occasion to be present 
when the accused \7illie Prevost was interviewed? 

A I did have occasion. , 

Q, Can you state whether or not you were present during 
the entire time when Willie Prevost was interviewed 
in the Goodrich Building at the Seattle Port of Embark- 
ation? 

A I cannot state with certainty if I was present all the 
time, but I believe I was, 

Q, ViJho else do you recall being present at the time of 

that interview? 
A Mr. Olson, Mr. Freeman, Sgt. Piske, Sgt. Young and I 

believe Mr. Springer. 

Q Was there or not a stenographer present at that time? 
A Oh, yes, the stenographer, Mrs. Henderson. Maj. Man- 
chester was there part of the time. 

Q, Did you or not on that occasion direct any questions 
yourself to the accused V/illio Provost? 
A Yos, I did. 

Defense: What was the question, I didn't get it? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I asked him if he himself had 
asked any questions of the accused Willie Prevost. Ho 
said he did, 

Q, I wish you would take this c>-±Libit, Prosecution Exhibit 
36 for identification and run over it page for page 
and satisfy yourself these matters recorded on this 
Prosecution Exhibit transpired v/hilc you were present. 
If there is any part in there that transpired while 
you were not there, I want you to toll us about it. 

President: The Court will take a short recess, wc will 
remain here. 

The Court then took a short recess, after which the 
personnel of the Court, Prosecution and Defense, and the 
accused and the reporter resumed their seats. 

909 



Prosldcnt: Court will come to order. 

Q Now, — I beg your pardon. Shall I proceed? 

President; Procood. 

Q Have you complstod examining Prosecution Exhibit 36 

for identification, that I have passed to you? 
A Yes, I have. 

Q I will ask you to toll the Court whether or not the 
matters that are reflected in Prosecution Exhibit 36 
transpired in your presence? 

A Yes, they did. 

Q Now I will ask you if at any time while you were pres- 
ent anyone took a rope, threr; it or placed it in the 
lap of the accused Willie Prevost and said to him that 
ho would be charged with murder, or anything of a sim- 
ilar nature? 

A No one did, 

Q, I will ask you whether or not at any time anyone told 
the accused Willie Prevost that if a rope would be 
placed around his neck, or that if he would be at the 
end of that rope, that ho would remember some things, 
or words to that effect? 

A No one told him that in ray presence. 

Q I will ask you whether or not if someone told Y/illio 

Prevost the accused that an Italian had identified him 
and that if he didn't do something or say something 
that the Court would take the word of the Italian over 
his? 

A No, no one said that. 

Q, ^ Was the accused Willie Prevost or not in any r:;spoct 

threatened on that occasion? . 
A He was not in ny presence. 

Q Was there or not at any time during that interview any- 
thing said to the accused Willie Prevost in the nature 
of holding out some benefit of future hope or rewarding 
him, or some reward for him if he made a statement? 

A No, there v/as no mention of such a statement. 

Q Now, do you recall whether or not the interview of the 
accused Willie Provost was continuous or whether there 
was a recess or a break in that intorvicv/? 

A I remember the interview because there v/as a break. 

Q, Now do you recall after the break, or the recess, 

whether or not anything was said to the accused Willie 
Prevost by anybody of the men present in the interview? 

A Yes, I cannot repeat the exact phraseology. 

910 



Q All right. Toll us who it v/as that said something. 
A Mr. Procnan, I boliove it v;as. 

Q Mr. Freeman? 

A Made the statement. 

Q All right, will you tell us as near as you can \7hat 
the nature of that statement was? 

A V/ell, again referring to the essence of the 24th Ar- 
ticle of War he said that the accused did not have 
to make a statement. That if he did make a statement 
that it could be used against him. That is it in 
essence. 

Q, Arc you positive that statement of that essence v;as 

made at that time? 
A Yes. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution lus no further ques- 
tions. 

CROSS EXAMIITATION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q, YJlio was it there at that time that asked Provost 

if he could identify a rope? 
A I am not certain that anyone did ask him that. 

Q You have no recollection of that transpiring? 
A No, I do not. 

Q There was at least one rope in the room? 
A Yes, there v/as. 

Q, And v/hore was that rope laying? 
A It was ordinarily kept on a tabic. 

Q, Well, was it on the tabic while Prcvost was being ques- 
tioned, 
A Yes, it was. 

Q, And that rope was there and no one asked him if he 

could identify it? 
A I am not sure, 

Q You read over Prosecution Exhibit for identification 

and have taken considerable time to do it, haven't you? 
A Yes, I did. 

Q Now, does this record contain everything that transpired 

there that day v/ith rrfercnco to Prevost? 
A Well, I v/ould say there is one exception. 

Q, All right. Vi/hat is that exception? 
A Possibly tv/o. r 

911 



Q All richt, what is that? 

A A long dGscrlption or discussion on tho 24th Article 

of War was undergone by Major Manchostcr. • That part 

is not in thoro, 

Q That is a long description of the 24th Article of 

War, Maj. Manchester crvplalning th'. rights of the ac- 
cused? 

A Yos, what it meant. To impress upon him his rights, 

Q That v/as not put in? 

A No. • ' 

Q, All right. Vtoat else was not put in? 

A I did not notice in thoro the statement that Mr. Proo- 

man made on tho accused's return to the room at tho 

time ho made his second Interviev/, 

. Q All right. Thoro v/cre two omissions from this record 
of everything that transpired, both of them pertaining 
to the warning to this witness of his rights under the 
24th Article of \7ar. Is that right? 
A Yes, 

Q Arc those considered inconsequential matters that should 
not be recorded? 

A No, decidedly not. They are not inconsequential mat- 
ters. , 

Q But they were not considered important onou.gh to put 
down in the record? 

A Well, that matter of the record, I am not able to say 
v/hcther they should have boon put in the record or 
not. Evidently it was thought sufficient to put in 
there the fact that the 24th Articl , of V/ar had been 
read by Mr. Prcoman, 

Q Well, as a matter of fact, wasn't it sufficient to 

Mr, Freeman that the 24th Article o" Viar had been read, 
wasn't that suffici'-nt to him? 

A Vifoll, it was regarded as suffici^rnt v/hcn it was ex- 
plained, 

Q, Just answer my question. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is an answer and an expla- 
nation. 

Q, Were you present in the vicinity ivhere Provost v/as being 

kept during this recess in the morning? 
A In the nert room, I believe. I am not sure. I cannot 

account for his presence during that recess. 

Q, But nevertheless rlglit after tho r 3cess ho was asked 

if ho wanted to change his story, wasn't ho? 
A Yos, 

912 



Q, And what transpired in there during that recess that 
caused him to come back in and have somebody ask him 
if he wanted to change his story? 

A I wasn't there. 

Q You were not there? You do not know? 
A No. 

Q Oh, yesc Did you hear Sgt. Young make einy explanation 
to Prevost of his rights under the 24th Article of 

War? 
A No,. 

Q Or any explanation of the 24th Article of War in any 

manner whatsoever? 
A No, it had already been made clear by Maj. Manchester. 

Q, Well, any explanation by Mro Freeman had already been 

made by Maj. Manchester? 
A Well, that is true. But Sgt. Young questioned him 

outside of the room. 

Q Oh, Sgt, Young questioned him outside the room, is that 

so? 
A So far as I know, he took him outside of the room, 

Q Well, when he took himself outside of the room I take 

it he questioned him, when was that? 

A During the recess, . • 

Q During the recess? 

A Well, he went with him. 

Q, And Sg!;. Young questioned him when he went with him 

outside of the room? 
A I don't know about that. 

Q Well, I thought you said he questioned him? 
A I don ' t know. 

Defense: That is all. 

REDIRECT EXAl^INATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q, During the recess, Sgt„ Young took him outside in the 

next room? 
A Yes. 

Q And as far as you know, you do not know whether he ques- 
tioned him or not? 
A No. 

Law Member: He did not say? 

Witness: I said, 

913 



m 



Defense: (Interposing) He just said ho did a minute 
ago. 

Trial Judge Advocate: V/e are just trying to find the 
full facts. 

Defense: Yes, I have been trying to find out all morn- 
ing what happened and now it just came out and you don't want 
it in there. That's the whole trouble. 

Law Member: Well, I understood the witness to say he 
did not know. .He didn't know what happened because he did 
not know what happonod when he went v/ith him out of the room. 

Witness: Yes, 

Q V/ell, now, let us get the full facts. And then lot the 
' Court knov/ everything that you know about it. After 
the recess was declared v/hat happened to the accused 
Willie Provost. 
A He loft the room, 

Q Did anyone go v/ith him? v 
k Sgt, Young went with him, 

Q, Do you know whore Willie Provost v/ent to or was taken 

to' during that recess? . .. i . 
A No , I don ' t , 

Q Did you see Sgt, Yoxrng and the accused Willie Provost 

together during the recess? 
A No, I did not, 

Q The next time you saw the accused Willie Provost after 

the recess v;as where? 
A In the sam.c room, 

Q And what period of time do you estimate elapsed or was 
taken during the recess? 

A V/ell, it is difficult for me to estimate, except to say 
approximately, — I v/ould say approximately twenty min- 
utes, . 

Q, Now what was the custom v/ith respect to where any of the 
accused who vjore questioned during that series of Inter- 

viovifs, -- as to v/here they were kept v/hen thoy v/cro not 

actually being intcrviov/ed, 
A V/oll, they wore kept either in a room adjoining tho room 

wo v/cre interviewing in or else some of then sat in a 

larger room or in a hallv/ay. 

Defense: I don't think custom has an^r materiality here. 
The question is, what was done with this particular v;itness. 

Lav; flember: Well, that is so, but v/e seem to have gone 
into what was done with all of the accused during thses var- 
ious interviews, 

914 



n 



Trial Judge Advocate: The Prosecution has no further 
questions, if it please the Court, . ■• .^ 

RECROSS EX.UmUTION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q, Did you think it v/as unusual at all v;hen Prevost was 
brought back after this recess, that he was given an- 
other detailed explanation of his rights under the 
24th Article of War? 

A Well, it was not detailed to such an extent as the 
first. 

Q, Well, did you think it was unusual at all that he was 

given a further explanation of his rights by a different 
interrogator? 

A I think it is well to remind him of the fact that he 
has these rights. 

Q \¥ill you please answer the question? I asked you if 

it is unusual. 
A No, I don't think it is unusual when a v/ltness leaves 

the room and comes back or the accused, I mean. 

Q, Well, was it customary, that is v/hat I asked you, to do 

that? 
A V.hen he left the room for twenty minutes, yes, I v/ould 

think so, 

Q It was customary to do that v/ith other accused? 

A Well, I think that in a great many of them that did 

leave the room. I think It is difficult to say 

whether It is customary or not. 

Q, \7ell, were there, — strike that. How many accused 

were you present at their questioning? 
A The exact nuraber? 

Q Or approximately? 

A Oh, I can't, — well, I would say approximately half, 

Q, Approximately half? 
A Yes. 

Q, Now I want you to tell me the name of anyone of those 
accused that you was present at where he was given a 
subsequent v/arning with respect to hlL rights imder the 
24th Article of War, such as you say transpired with 
PrevostJ 

A I can't remember any. 

Q You can't remember any? • 

A No. . _ 

Defense: That is all. 

915 



REDIRECT EXAMINATION 
Questions "by Trial Judge Advocate: ^ ^ - ' •■ 

Q When a witness has been examined and he has given one 

statement and thereafter states that he wants to change 
his statement, I will ask you what your reaction then 
is as to whether or not it is unusual to give him a 
second warning? 

A I would say that it would not be unusual under that 
circumstance. , , 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all, 

RECROSS EXAMINATION 

Questions by Defense: 

Q, Now, was there any other witness that was examined in 

connection with this case who did change his story? 
A There may havebeen, I can't recall. 

Q, Well, you were there, can't you recall? 
A I cannot. 

Q, You don't have any recollection? . 

A No. 

Q, But you do have a recollection of any other witness who 
was subsequently, for any purpose at all, given a warn- 
ing as to his rights? 

A I can't think of any now. 

Q, Now, let me ask you this. Will you look at the first 
portion of page 1, Prosecution Exhibit 36 for identifi- 
cation and tell the Court whether that contains all of 
the warning that was given by Ma j . Manchester, or 
whether there was additional warning that does not ap- 
pear there? 

A I thought I answered that question before when I said 
he went into an explanation of the 24th Article of War. 

Q, Well, tell us jiist what that explanation was that he 
gave? 

A Oh, that is impossible to do that, remembering it exact. 
I don't think it is unusual not to remember a twenty- 
five minute statement, 

Q, Oh, it was a twenty-five minute statement? 
A It was twenty or twoniy-five minutes, almost every time 
he makes that explanation. 

Q, Oh, it took toj. Manchester, to make that explanation, 
twenty to twenty-five minutes every time he irade an 
explanation to a witness as to his rights under the 
24th Article of War as a witness? 

A I would say to most of them. I would say that was the 

916 



average, 

Q There were some that took longer? 
A Yes. 

Q Tell us how many took longer than twenty to twenty-five 

minutes'? 
A I cannot do that. . 

Q, How many are there you are able to arrive at is average? 
A I would say that on the twenty minutes that I said, in 
all I took an average on that. 

Q The average that you "based that on would take twenty to 

twenty-five minutes? 
A I would say so, 

Q, Then you took an average of twenty to tvrenty-five minutes 

and there would have been some that took longer than that? 
A Yes, 

Q Then how many took greater than the average? 

A I am not able to say. That is an approximation, 

Q Tell us what was the longest period of time it took MaJ, 
Manchester to make the statement to any of the accused? 
A I am unable to say, 

Q Well, it would be a mathematical procedure to tell us 

that, just make an estimate? 
A That is not a mathematical proposition, 

Q, Well, are you Just telling this Court that you are tell- 
ing them anything that comes into your mind? 
A No, 

Q Well, then tell us how you arrived at that? 

A Well, I am telling how, it is Just a mental process. 

^ Just tell the Court how you arrived at that? 
A I was Judging generally of the length of the interviews 
which were quite long, 

Q Well, now think a moment. Tell us what in your opinion, 
using the same mental process you used heretofore, was 
the longest period of time MaJ , Manchester used in ex- 
plaining to anyone of these men their rights under the 
24th Article of War, 

A Well, I remember one in which the ejcplanation was very 
long and involved, due to the fact that the man had no 
understanding , 

Q, Well, my question was how long was that approximately? 
A Well, I was going through those mental gyrations. 

Q All right, you use those same mental gyrations now and 

give us your answer. 
A I would say somewhere in the vicinity of forty or forty- 

917 



five minates. 

Q, Do you remember who that man was? 
A Frankly, I don't. 

Defense: I think that is all. 

3X/.MINiVnON BY THE COURT j 

Questions by Law Member: 

Q, Witness, Defense asked you to look at the first pagfe ^ 

of this docoiaent, proposed Exhibit 36, and give the 'i 

exact words which follo-.ved the reading of the 24th \ 

Article of v/ar. Will you state for me in words or i 

substance, or in general terras, what Maj. Manchester ? 

said to the accused Prevost prior to the taking of '] 

this statement? J 

A Well, I think that he told him, in the first place, ) 

that he did not have to make a statement. That the 4 

2^th i^rticle of i;i/ar assured him against self-incrimi- 1 

natory statements. That he also,--I think the ' 

ot other important point is that he told him that if he | 

did make a statement it could be used against him 3 

in a trial of this nature, or it could be used for i 

him. i 

Q Vifhile all of this explanation was going on was there \ 

any questions asked by Prevost that you recall for a 
further explanation? 

A No, I don't recall that Provost asked any questions.. j 

Q, President: Any further questions? You are excused. 

There being no further questions, the witness was ex- 1 

cused and withdrev/. ■ . ' . ' 

Law Member: I will say to the accused it has been 
brought to my attention who the man was sitting in the back 
row. I assure you he is not going to be used as a witness 
in this case. That he is an employee of the War Depart- 
ment direct, and it is understood that the regulations re- 
quire his making a report on the witness who has just testi- 
fied, and that is the reason he was included in the persons 
retained in the room during the testimony of the last wit- 
ness. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Now, if the Court please, I am 
prepared to call another witness unless the Court wants to re- 
cess, or if it does not want to recess, I can call in another 

witness. 

President: I notice it is ten minutes to three. I 
presume you have another witness? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I do, yes. 

President: We will recess until five minutes after three. 

918 



The Court then took a recess until oj05 o'clock, p.n,, 
at which houi^ the personnel of the court, prosecution and de- 
fense, and the accused and the reporter resumed their seats. 

President: Is the Prosecution ready to proceed? 

Trial Judge Advocate: The Prosecution is ready, sir. 

President: Is the defense ready? 

Defense: Defense is ready, sir. 

President: Covert will come to order. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Let the record shov/ that each of 
the accused Is present and all members of the court are pres- 
ent, the personnel representing the accused and the personnel 
representing the Prosecution 8.re also present. 

(Miss t/4 Ernestyne Morgan, Overseas Supply Division, 
Seattle Port of Embarkation, a witness for the Prosecution, 
was s\Yorn and testified as follows:) 

DIPiECT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q State your name and youi- grade, organization and your 

station, please, 
A T/4 Ernestyne Morgan. 

Q And what is your assignment or your organization, please? 
A Stenographer at the 0. S. D., at the Port of Embarkation, 
Seattle. 

Q Sergeant, were you present doing stenographic work at any 
of the interviews of tlie Negro soldiers, in connection 
with the investigation that was made of the incident that 
took place at Pt. Lav/ton on or about August 14, 1944, 
when sor.ie Negro soldiers entered the Italian area? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q Have you or not at ray request checked your notes to see 
whether or not you were present at the interview of 
Willie Prevost, the interview of the accused Willie Pre- 
vost, that took place on or about September 5, 1944? 

A I have, air. 

Q What are the facts; Were you or not present at that time? 
A I v/as present at the beginning, 

Q Up ixntil what point v\fore you present? 
A Up until he was sworn in. 

Q Were you or not present, --during the ti-me you were pre- 
sent, v/as or was not a warning given to him under the 

919 



I 

24th Article of War or had you left prior to this time? i 
A I was there, sir. i 

. I 

Q, You were there. V\rho gave that warning, if anyone? 
A Major Iifenchester. 

1^ Do you remember what that warning consisted of? 
A No, sir. Other than explaining the Article of V^far to 

him. 

Q, Yes. Do you remember v.'hich Article of War was explained? 
A His rights and privileges. 

9. Did you stay while any of that, or after that explanation 

was given, I mean? 
A No, sir. 

Q Why did you leave? 

A I went back to transcribe some notes. ' 4 

\ 

Q '//as or not another stenographer present to record that j 

interview? ' 

A Yes, sir. . j 

^ Do you remember who that v/as? 

A Mrs. Henderson, ^ 

I 
Law Member: Would you clear up something? Is this the ^ 

5th of September or the 30th? 

Trial Judge Advocate: The 5th, sir. 

Q That is correct; you checked your notes as to the 5th 
of September, didn't you? 

A Yes, sir, ' i 

-. ■ 'J 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution has no further ques- 
tions, if it please the Court. 

CROSS SX.AMINATION 
Questions by defense: 

Q Sgt. Morgan, have you seen this transcript which is Pro- 
secution Exhibit 36 for identification? 
A Yes, I have. 

Q, I notice it states at the top statements v>/ere taken by . 

Mrs. Lu M. Henderson and Ernestine Morgan? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Did you take any part in the transcribing of this examina- 
tion? 
A Just the first part. 

Q. And do you have your stenographic notes as to that part? 

A I don't know whether I do or not. 

920 



Q V/hat were the notes that you rof erred to in determin- 
ing whether or not you were present at the beginning? 
A Well, I v/as there when the 24th Article of V/ar v/as read. 

Q -Yes, I knov/, but you told Col. Jav/orskl you had chocked 
your notes and from those notes you wore able to de- 
termine that you wore present at the beginning of the 
session at v/hich Proves t was examined. 

A No, I put dovm the dates of the Testimony that I did 

take and I checked my notes and I did not have anything 
for that date. 

Q, You do not have anything at all for that date? What 

was it there about your notes then that refreshes your 
recollection sufficiently to enable you to tell v/hat 
part of the session you v/ere at? .;,, 

A I don't understand the question. 

Defense: Mr. Reporter, v/ill you r^ad the question to 
her? 

(Question read back.) 

A I did not take any notes. That is why I did not have 
any statement for it. 

Q Yes, but I understood you to say that you had checked 
your notes and that from looking at those notes you 
were able to toll, — 

A (interposing) But I didn't take any of the testimony on 
that particular day. 

Q But you did take the first part of it, didn't you? 
A No, sir. 

Q V/ell, you are mistaken then when you say that by checking 
your notes you are able to say just how long you were 
there? 

A That I was not there that particular day. That I took no 
notes on that particular day, 

Q, Well, you were not able to tell by looking at your notes 

then, how long you were there? 
A No, sir, I was able to determine that I was not there 

that particular day, 

Q Well, you wore there part of the tine, weren't your? 
A Just at the beginning. 

Q Did you take any stenographic notes at all on that day? 
A No, sir. 

Q Well, you are speaking entirely from your recollection 

then? 
A I have no notes at all on that day. 

921 



Q All right, tlisn, you are speaking entirely from your 

recolloction? 
A Well, I have nothing in my notebooks for that, 

Q And you have not refreshed your rocollectlon from any- 
thing? 
A No, sir, 

Q So, you are speaking of what you roraenbor of what hap- 
pened back on September 5, 
A Well, I had no notes at all for that particular day. 

Q Well, all right. Now, v/ore you in the room when Pro- 
vost was first brought in there? 
A When ho was first brought in? 

Q You v/ore there when he was first brought In? 
A Ye 3 , sir, 

Q Who else was in the room? 

A Well, Maj. Manchester was there and Mr. Prooman was there, 

EIr, Olson was there, I believe, Sgt. Young was there 

and Sgt. Pisko, I believe, 

Q Anybody else? 

A Mrs. Henderson, who was taking the notes. 

Q All rigjit, now, -- 

A (interposing) There na^r have been some others coning 
in and out, 

Q, I will ask you this. Did you hoar Maj. Manchester road 

the 24th Article of War to Provost? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Ho read it verbatim? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q Was that before or was that after Provost was S¥/orn in? 
A Well, they read it to them before they arc sworn, road 
it to them and they explained it to them. 

Q That was road to him before ho waj sworn? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q I want you to look nov/, then, at Prosecution Exhibit 36 

for identification and get the first part of it, and tell 
us whether or not that is correct, v.hcthor ho was sworn 
first or t/hothor the 24th Article of War was read to 
him, first. 

A Well, according to his, ho was sworn in first. But 

they explained the Article to him and asked him if he 
cared to make a statement, 

Q, Yes. But I asked you whether the 24th Article of War 
was road to him before he was sv/orn or whether it v/as 

922 



road to him after ho was sworn. Now just which was 
it? 
A How, I don't recall but I was thinking it was before 
ho was sworn in. But possibly not. 

Q It is possible you could bo mistaken? 
A It is possible I could be mistaken. 

Q Wow, let no ask you this. Just c::actly v/hat was said 

by Ma j . Manchester, if anything* before he read the 24th 
Article of War to him? 

A Why, I think he, if I a:--i not mistaken, he asked him if 
ho understood his riglats. And then they read the Ar- 
ticle of War to then. 

Q He road the Article of V/ar to him, then, after ho asked 

him if he understood his rirhts? 
A I don't recall just o;:actly. 

Q Well, do you recall when Maj. Manciioster asked him if 
ho understood his r lights under the 24th Article of War 
what Prevost replied; did he ropier yos, or did he re- 
ply no? 

A I don't recall, sir. 

Q You don't recall that. Now, prior to that morning, what 
was the last witness, --strike that. Was any other wit- 
ness examined that morning before Prevost v/as brought in? 

A No, sir. I don't thin^k so. I v/as not in there, 

Q You had taken the testimony the day before? 

A Well, I don't knov; for sure, I v;ould have to check back. 

Q You don't recall that? 
A No, I don't recall that. 

Q, Do you recall for suro whether you took testimony the day 

after or not? 
A Ho, sir. 

Defense: I don't have anything x'urther. 

Trial Judge Advocate; Ho further questions, if it please 
the Court. 

President: Any further questions by the Court? V/itnoss 
will bo excused. 

Thoro being no further questions, the \;ltnoss was oxcuscd 
and wi-thdrow. 

(Sgt. Robert C. Fiske, Headquarters, Headquarters De- 
tachment C, a v/itness for the Prosocution, v/as sv/orn and tes- 
tified as follows:) 

DIiaCT EXAMINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

923 



J 



^ jtate your name? 
A nobert C. Fiske. 

Q, And your grade? 
A Technician 4. 

Q, And your organization or assignment? 

A Headquarters, Headquarters Detachment C. I am assigned 
to the Intelligence Division, Seattle Port of Embarka- 
tion, 

Q All right, now Sergeant; do you remember the incident 

involving a group of Negro soldiers entering the Italian 
area at Ft, Lawton on or about August 14, 1944? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Did you or not participate in any investigation or in- 
terview of witnesses in connection with that incident? 
A Yes, sir, I did. 

Q Do you recall whether or not as a part of that investi- 
gation, the accused, Willie Prevost, Sr . , was interviewed? 
A Yes, I recall that. He was. 

Q Were you or not present during that interview? 
A I was. 

Q Do you knox^ who else was present? 

A Maj, Manchester was present, at least at the beginning 
of the interview. Mr. Jack Freeman was present. Mr, 
Peter Olson was present, Mr. G-lasgow. Sgt, Ralph 
Young and myself as well as two shorthand reporters, 

Q Was or not the questions that were asked the accused, 
Willie Prevost, and the answers given by him taken 
down by a stenographer? 

A Yes, I am sure they were, 

Q I will ask you to examine Prosecution Exhibit 36 for iden- 
tification and I want you to look at it page by page and 
go over it very carefully and then tell the Court whether 

or not that transcript represents truly and correctly the 
questions that were asked and the answers that were 
given by the accused, Willie Prevoet, on that occasion? 

A May I interrupt as I read this, Instead of waiting un- 
til I read the whole thing? 

Q What do you mean by interrupt? 
A I mean, to point out anything. 

Q, No, you better just wait until the questions are asked. 
(Witness peruses document.) 

Q, Now, Sergeant, have you had an opportunity to examine 

Prosecution Exhibit 26 for identification, the instrument 

924 




I handed 70U? 
A Yes, sir, I hr.ve, 

(\ Does thnt or not fairly represent n tr.".n script of the 

questions that were asked the accused, Willie Prevost, 
and the ans\7ers that he gave on the occasion in question? 

A Yes, I thlnl: It does, 

fl Now, I v/ill ask you v/hether or not during the course of 

that interview anyone at any time said anything to the 
accused, Willie Prevost, v;ith respect to the fact that if 
he had a rope around his neck he v/ould reraera'';er more 
than he had" told, or soraethlng to that effect? 

A There was no conversation of that kind, 

(\ State v/hether or not at any time during that interview, 

an^rone threw a rope in the lap of the accused, 'Vlllie 
Prevost, and told' him he would be charged with murder, 
or words to that effect? 

A I saw no throwing of ropes and 1 sav/ no rope in the hand 
or lap of Prevost, 

Q State whether or not there was said to the accused, Pre- 
vost, that he would be charged with murder? 
A No. 

^„ State whether or not at any time during that interview 
anyone said to the accused, Willie Prevost, that an 
Italian had identified him and that the Court would take 
the word of the Italian over his, and that he had better 
come clean, or words to that effect? 

A That v/as not told to Prevost. 

(\ Now, Sergeant, do you recall whether or not at the be- 

ginning of the interview of the accused, Willie Prevost, 
anyone explained to him his rights as a witness? 

A At the beginning of the intervie?/, Fajor Manchester read 
the 24th Article of War and then explained to Prevost 
its meaning, 

Was that a very brief explanation or what type of an 
explanation was it? 

A Ma.j. Manchester told Prevost that the 24th Article of 
War 7/as his protection as a soldier, or as a citizen, 
against any investigation forcing him to state any infor- 
mation Incriminating to hixa. He told him that it was 
his privilege, his constitutional right, that he did not 
need to give any inf orraation v/hlch would Incriminate or 
degrade him. lie explained It to him in that manner af- 
ter he read it. 

Q Do you recall v/hether or not the Interviev/ of the ac- 
cused, Willie Prevost, vras continuous or whether there 
v/as a recess in the course of that interview? 

A There was a recess after he had been questioned for 
perhaps thirty minutes, or an hour. 

925 



Q After that recess, was the accused, Vifillie Prevost, or 

not questioned further? 
A Yes. The questioning was resumed after the recess. 

Q By the way, who did the most of the questioning during 
the interview of the accused, Willie Prevost? 

A After Maj. Manchester asked the first questions, Mr. 
Jack Freeman undertook the main questioning, although 
others around the table felt free to ask questions as 
their turn came. 

(I Did or not any others ask questions, other than Mr. 
Jack Freeman? 

A Yes, there was others asked, but Mr. Jack Freeman asked 
questions and was the principal party asking the ques- 
tions. 

Q, Do you recall whether or not anyone talked with the 
accused, VVillio Prevost, during tii 3 recess that you 
spoke of. 

A I don't recall that anyone did. I did not see V^^illie 
Prevost during the recess. 

Q, Now, upon the resumption of the interview of the ac- 
cused, Willie Prevost, after the recess was declared and 
had been completed, state whether or not anyone said 
anything to Willie Prevost prior to the further ques- 
tioning? 

A Mr. Freeman told him, or reminded him, that Maj. Man- 
chester had previously read to him the 2A-th Article of 
War. And he told him that he knew what his rights were 
under the 24th Article of War as it Vi/as read and ex- 
plained to him, and told him that what he said would be 
on his own free will and would be used for him, if it 
were for him, and used against him if it should be a- 
gainst him. 

Q After that, were other questions asked of the accused, 

Willie Prevost? 
A Well, Mr. Freeman proceeded just asking him questions 

about the incident. 

Q, I think you mentioned that a Mr. Oison was also present, 

didn't you? 
A Yes, sir, Mr. Peter Olson. 

Q, Do you knovif where Mr. Peter Olson is at this time? 

A Mr. Peter Olson is not in the service of our department. 
He may be on an indefinite leave, or he may have termi- 
nated. I believe he is in California. 

Q, How long has it been since you saw Mr. Peter Olson? 
A I saw him vi/hen, --the last day he was in Seattle, which 
I think vi' as about the 20th of September. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Prosecution has no further ques- 
tions, if it please the Court. 

926 




GROSS EXAMINATION 
Questions by Defense: - . 

Q Sgt. Pisko, you have read the transcript, which is 
Prosecution Exhibit 36 for identification at soine 
length, haven't you? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q, Now is that transcript accurate as to evidence, or I 

mean everything that transpired there at the time that 
Provost was examined? 

A It contains every (question and ansv/er as far as I know, 
as to v;hat Provost "did on the night of the incident. 

Q But my question was. Sergeant, did it contain everything 
that was said to Provost and the answers that Prevost 
gave, 

A It contains everything except this explanatory matter 
which v/e have in most every investigation, of reading 
the 24th Article of War, which is explained out in de- 
tail and the infor:;ial explanation that is given in 
every case, 

Q Yes. Now, that explanation which Maj. Manchester gave 
to Prevost of what his rights were was not written down 
at that time, was it? 

A It was not v;rltten down on this one; it was given, how- 
ever, 

Q, You say' it was not written on that? 
A No, sir, 

Q Was it written on some of them? 

A I am positive it was written on some of them. I knov/ 
of one I read over sometime ago, or sometime after 
this, and there was three written, — or three and a- 
half written pages on that, 

Q Then it was not the general practice down there to 

omit the explanc.tlon of a man's rights under the 24th 
Article of War? 

A I think it was, I know of only this one case where it 
was taken down. 

Q What is the reason. Sergeant, that the explanation is 
given to an accused, to a witness, of his rights under 
the 24th Article of War and is not made a part of the 
record? 

A Well, the 24th Article of War is printed out word for 
word. It is easy for you to understand, or for me to 
understand, but it is probably better, in homely lan- 
guage, to give it to some of them in detail? 

Q Well, a detailed explanation then, is considered a 

matter of no consequence? 
A I think it is Important to m.any persons. I mean word 

927 



for v/opd It spea]cs for itself, 

Q But it is not sufficiently Important to make it a part 

of the record? 
A I don't knov;, that is not a matter of my judgment, 

(^ Mio issued those instructions that this portion of 

these intervie'.YS vrere not to be taken down and made a 
part of the record? 

A IVell, I an not in a position to ans'.ver that. I was 
there, and I have told you what I seen. 

Q But you don't knov/ ¥;ho issued the instructions to take 
only" part of what transpired with any of the accused 
and leave out a part of it? 

A I don't knov? what the policy is, 

(\ Didn't you say you know of only one case where it v/as 

done? 

A I knov/ of one case v/here it was done at great length, 
three and a-half pages. The person interviewed stated 
at the beginning he did not understand and it was ex- 
plained to him, and when a word Y'as asked him, or a 
question as to v/hether he was in Ft, Lawton or uptown, 
or any place else, etc., he did not seem to understand 
so it v;as explained to him at great length and it ^ms 
taken dov.'n and Maj. Manchester explained in great de- 
tail the meaning of the 24th Article of War, to be sure 
he understood it and after explaining it to him he 
said he still didn't v;ant to talk; That v/as one who did 
not want to talk at the beginning, or even tell v/hether 
he was at Ft. Lawton or uptown. 

Q Fow, hov; many men have you participated in the inter- 
viewing of during the period of your experience? 
A Are you referring to this case, sir? 

Q, No, I am referring generall:/ to your experience in the 

t^rpe of 7/ork you are doing, 
A Weil, that is hard to estimate, but very many. 

Q Yifell, would it be several hundred? 
A Oh, at least a hundred. 

Q And you only knov/ of the one instance where the practice 
was ever followed of taking down everything that >vas 
said to him with reference to his rights? 

A Most of my Interviews, that you are speaking of, have 
been informal without benefit of transcript. In this 
ca-se, the transcript was taken of the questions and 
answers. I would rather not go into all the other cases 
I have worked on, 

Q Well, this case is the only one to your knowledge ?;here 

transcripts were ever made? 
A Not the only one, but it is the most principal one, 

928 



Q, And the only one Twhere a transcript ^Nas made tJaat yoa 
can recall of an instance vvhero the warning Awas taken 
down, that one instance the vjarning given to the vi/it- 
ness was taken dovm completely as it vi/at said? 

A Oh, no, I just said there was one v^i th a three and a- 

half page explanation, 

Q ViJell, tell us about any others? 

A I can't recall any others. I mean, it was thorouglnly 

understood; at least as far as my understanding, I 

didn't feel there vms any doubt. 

Q, Is it usual or customary vjhere a recuss intervenes 

during the period of questioning to again explain to the 
v^itness when the recess is over his rights under the 
2/Vth Article of ;fer? 

A Well, it depends on the circumstances. In this ca..e, 
Mr. Freeman v;ge taking over immediately after the re- 
cess and I guess ho sqm^ fit to do ' '.at. 

(^ V/ell, my question to you was, vms that usual and cus- 
tomary v^hore a recess intervened? 
A Well, there v^eve many recesses. 

Q, I appreciate that. Kov;, was it usual or customary 

after a recess was over for the next interrogator to 
explain to the witness his rights under the 2iVth ^irti- 
cle of V/ar? 

A Where the interrogator was a different person, it 
certainly was. 

C^ That has been done rofiny times in your experience? 
A In cases where a different person intcirrogates. 

Q, V/here a different person takes over? 

A Or if there v>;ere any length of time, certainly. 

Q You have a definite recollection of that? 
A Yes. 

Q All right, teall us about some of those cases? 

A Well, I just know there were cases Vi/he re men were inter- 
viewed and there was a recess and after the recess per- 
haps some other member of the grou:> asked questions 
and would start out by stating that ilaj. Manchester, or 
whoever^it v;as the first time, had o::plain3d the 2l,th 
Article of \far, and if he understood it and realized 
that he still had those rights; certainly. 

Q Can you name some of those cases? 

A Oh, I can't name them now. 

Q, If you go back to your records you could? 
A Oh, yes, I think so, 

Q, V/ell, after we are through today, yjill you go back and 

check over some of those cases? 
A If I am ordered to do it by the Court. 

929 



Q Vifell, I ara asking the Court to do that. 

Law Member: Has he records? . 

Defense: The records you have down there in your de- 
partment that you recall of where that procedure was fol- 
lowed. 

Trial Judge Advocate: You mean in thi« case? 

Defense: I don't know. V^Jherever that procedure was 
followed, h-3 has told us about, I don't know what case it 
was in. 

Q Now, Sergeant, when they brought Prt:vost back in the 
questioning room after a recess, v/ho was present? 

A Mr. Freeman and Mr. Olson, Sgt, Young and the two 

shorthand reporters and Captain Si ringer. They all 
were present or were coming in about the time or were 
gathered. Everyone except Maj. Manchester, is my 
recollection of it . 

Q Were they all present at the time that Mr. Freeman 

started to question Provost again? 
A I don't know whether Mr. Freeman waited until everyone 

came before he said a vjord or not. I don't remember 

whether there were persons coming in or whether everyone 

was settled before Mr. Freeman started. 

(^ There is another omission from that record. There is 
not transcribed in that record the second warning that 
you say Mr. Freeman gave the witness? 

A No, it isn't. • ^ 

(^ By the way, during the time Prevost was questioned, 

where was this rope lying on the table? 
A There was a table in the room which had exhibits on it, 

various rocks and sticks and clubs and knives. And 

I think two ropes, and that table was in the corner of 

the room. . . -. ■ 

Q, Who was it asked Provost to attempt to identify the 

ropes? 
A I don't remember that he was asked. 

Q, You don't remember he was asked? 
A No. 

.Q Was he asked about an axe? 

A I asked him about an axe after he had mentioned something 

about seeing an axe. 

Q, You definitely remoiiiber an axe? 

A I remember ho broug.ht up the subject of an axe. 

Q, But you haven't any recollection of whether he was askod 

to identify a rope or not? 
A I don't remember talking about a rope. 

930 



Q Now, tell the Court again just exactly what it was that 
Mr. Freeman said to prevost before he started question- 
ing him, 

A He said, noY/ Mr. Freeman called him Willie, or whatever 
it was, he said, "Willie, Maj. Manchester explained to 
you the 24th Article of War, that you do not have to 
make a statement against yourself, that what you say can 
he used for or against you." 

Q Is that the same type of explanation that Maj. Manchester 

made? 
A No. Maj, Manchester gave in all cases a longer one. 

Q But you definitely recall that Maj. Manchester also 

used those same words, "You don't have to make it, but 
if you do make it, it can "be used for or against you?" 

A I don't remember Maj. Manchester talking about the 

statement being used for or against him. Maj. Manchester 
talked about the fact that he didn't have to say anything 
that would incriminate or degrade him, 

Q, There isn't anything at all in the 24th Article of War 
stating v/hether or not a statement can be used for or 
against you, is there? 

A No, that is a fact. There is nothing in the 24th Ar- 
ticle of War on that. 

Defense: That is all. 

Trial Judge Advocate; Prosecution has no further ques- 
tions, if it please the court, 

EXvUilNATIOK 3Y TIIE COURT 

(Questions by the President: -., . 

Q You testified one time back there, that a lengthy tran- 
script was made cf t'le warning that v/as given one. 
A Yes, sir. 

Why did you say that was made? 

A Because this particular v/itness. Battle, I think his name 
was, Thomas Battle, I am not sure that is the man but I 
think it is. AnyAfay, this v/itness came in the room and 
very soon told us he was not going to say anything about 
the case. 

Q And after that, the v/arning was made more lengthy? 

A Yes. Maj. Manchester told him he didn't have to make 
any statement but that he wanted to explain to him the 
24th Article of War, that it protected him in anything 
that he v/ished to say, 

Q Well, just in what v;ay does it protect anybody in anything 

that he v/ants to say? 
A Well, the 24th Article of War states that anybody testify- ' 

ing before the Board of Officers, or Court of Inquiry, etc., 

931 



does not have to say anything that will incriminate him, 
nor does he have to answer any questions that would tend 
to incriminate or degrade him. 

Q. Well, in what wa;/ does the 24th Article of V/ar protect 

a man if he does make a statement? 
A Oh, I mean, if he does make a statement it does not 

protect him. 

Q Well, why should a man give a lengthy explanation, or 
why should a lengthy explanation be gone into when a 
man refused to testify? I cannot understand why a more 
lengthy explanation v/ould be made of the 24th Article 
of War after a man has refused to testify, having had 
it explained to him, 

A Well, I think there would be ample reason for making 

such an explanation, sir, because there probably could 
be a lot of information that man could give, which in- 
formation would not necessarily incriminate or involve 
him, but might help the investigation, I think it is 
very fitting to point out to him that he does not have 
to say anything that would put himself on the spot, 
but that it would be usefull for him to tell other 
things that he might know. 

President: I have no further questions. 

- '. REDIRECT EXyvIINATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q In connection with Col, DeV/itt's questions, I will ask 
you whether or not that particular witness raised any 
question as to whether the 24th Article of V/ar pro- 
tected him? 

A Yes, sir. That is it. He thought some place else 
something would got him. 

Q Did that have anything to do with the lengthy explanation? 
A It certainly did, sir, because ho thought it was not 
protecting him. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all. 

President: Any further questions? If not, witness is 
excused. 

There being no further questions, the witness was excused 
and withdrew. 

Trial Judge Advocate; I will recall Col. Williams. 

(Lt, Col, Curtis Vi/illlams, Inspector General's Department 
Washington, D, C, resumed the stand,) 

• ' 932 



n 



DIRECT EXAIIIWATIOK 
Questions by Trial Judge Advocato; 



"■o^ 



Q You may bo soatod, Colonol. You arc advisod that you 

arc still under oath, • 

A Yos, sir, 

q, Col. Williams, getting back, now, to the statement of 

the 30th of September, 1944, I believe you have told the 
Court that the accused, Willie Prevost, Sr., was intor- 
vlov/cd by you on or about that date? 

A I don't believe I have testified to Prevost. 

Q Haven't you? You haven't given any testimony as to the 
accused, V/illic Prevost? Well, probably you hadn't, I 
thought that you had mentioned about that particular 
interview. Well, I willcovcr it. Will you tell the 
Court whether or not you had occat>'.on to interview the 
accused, Willie Prevost, Sr. 

A I did. 

Q Hov;, v/as that interview prior or subsequent to the time 
when Willie Prevost, Sr., gave a statement in his own 
handwriting which has boon identified as Prosecution 
Exhibit 35, or 3S, for identification? 

A The statement which I took from Prevost for ra^'- record 
v/as taken prior to the statement which is made in his 
own handwriting. 

Q, Prior to the time that you took a statement from Willie 

Prevost, Sr. Vi/hat did you say, did you or not give him 

any warning of his rights under th"; 24th Article of 
War? 

A I did. ■ ■ - 



Q Did you or not at that time explain to him his rights 

under Article of War 24? 
A I did. 

Q, Now, after the intervi.w was completed, was or not any- 
thing said v;ith respect to a statement by Willie Prevost, 
the accused, of a Avrlting, v/ritten by himself in his 
orm handwriting? 

A There was. 

Q Will "-^ou tell the Court the subst.mco of that conversa- 
tion?" 

A I asked Provost if he cared to put in writing the state- 
ment v/hich he had just previously made to me for the 
record and he stated that he did. 

Q After he stated to "ou that he did, what if anything was 
said? 

A I told Provost that if he made such a statement, if ho 
cared to make such a statement, that v/o v/ould take the 
writing in his own hands and that statement, if he 

933 




made it, could be used against him, ' ■• ; . 

Q Did he or not thereafter make a statement in his ovm. 

handv/rltlng? 
A He did. 

Q Now, Col, Williams, during the time that you inter- 

viev/ed the accused, Willie Prevost, did you at any time 
make an effort to get him to change a statement that he 
had made to you. 

A I did not, 

f> State whether or not you at any time undertook to 

tell him that the Court could not accept the statement, 
■ or would not accept the statement that he had given you. 
A llo, I told him nothing of that sort, 

Q, Nov/, I wish you v/ould tell the Cc^rt if you recall v/ho 

was present at the time of that i-vte-jvlev: that you had 
with Willie Prevost, Sr. 

A You mean at the time that I questioned him for the 
records? 

<^ At the time you questioned him, yes* 

A Capt, Tyson of the Port Inspector General's office, Y/ho 

v/as assisting me in the investigation, was present. Col, 

Jav/orski was there part of the time. 

Law Member: That is the Trial Judge Advocate? 

A (continuing) That is the Trial Judge Advocate, yes, sir. 
And Mai, Manchester v/ould come in and out of the room. 
And I cannot say at v/hat time he was present. And the 
■reporter which accompanied me from V/ashington, D. C, 
here, a reporter which v/e take with us at all times, 
and myself, 

0, Did you or not see me talking to the accused Willie 

Prevost just prior to the delivery of his v/ritten state- 
ment? 

A I did. 

Q Were you close enough to hear any of the conversation? 
A I did hear it, 

Q Will you tell the Court v/hat convei-sation you heard? 

A As best I recall, before Col, Jav/orsLi took the state- 
ment which had been v/ritten by the accused, Willie Pre- 
vost, it was that he wr.s informed ''oj Col. Jaworski 
that he didn't have to make a statement. That although 
he had v/ritten it he didn't have to turn it over to 
him, but if he did that statement could be used against 
him in a trial that was to come. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all, 

934 



RECROSS EXAMINATION 
Questions by Defense: ' 

Q All these conversations were transcribed by the Court 

Reporter? 
A They were not, 

Q Weren't they a part of the record you were having 

transcribed? 
A They were not a part of the record, 

Q What part did you have transcribed and what part did 
you not? 

A As I said, with the beginning of a record and the end- 
ing of a record with any Individual, I say, "Is there 
anything further or any information you v/ish to add;" 
that closes the record as far as I aia concerned and the 
Inspector General's Office, 

Q All of these 'conversations took place afterwards? 
A That's right. 

Q, You did not consider them Important as far as that part 

of your investigation of the case v/as concerned? 
A It is not, 

Q, Do you have an independent recollection of all these 

things you have testified to today? 
A I do in the case of Vifillie Prevost, 

Q It has not been necessary for you to refresh your 

recollection at all? 
A None 

Q Of other cases that you have investigated down there, 
what other individuals do you have a clear and inde- 
pendent recollection of without refreshing your recol- 
lection from notes? 

Trial Judge Advocate: 'Jftiat other cases, and v/hat other 
individuals are you speaking of now? 

Q, What other individuals is what I moant to say. 

A I have a clear recollection of Willie Basden, Of Samuel 

Snow, Of Wallace T;Y6oden. And, those particularly I 

remember quite well, 

Q Together with Prevost? 
A Yes, 

Q Now just exactly what explanation did you give to Pro- 
vost as to his rights under the 24th Article of War, 
otherwise prior to the time you questioned about the 
incident, 

k As I said yesterday. Major, before I questioned any 

man my first question is, "Do you understand your rights 
as a soldier under the 24th Article of V/ar, 

935 



sV 



Q Yos. And what reply did Prevost make to that. Colonel? 
A I cannot recall as to whether he said yes or no. 

Q You don't know? 

A But I did read the 24th Article of War to him and ex- 
plained it to him, 

Q, Did you make a detailed explanation of it? 
A As I said yesterday, if a man, -- 

Q (interposing) Well, yesterday we were talking about Mont- 

gomery, weren't we. Colonel? 
A I am talking nov/ as a general rule, 

Q Vifell, I am not interested in what you do as a general 
rule. But I would like to know what you did in refer- 
ence to Prevost, 

A All right. In reference to Provost, I can't say defi- 
nitely that I did go ahead and explain it to him after 
reading it to hin, 

Q You don't know definitely then whether you did or did 

not? 
A No, I know I road it to him, 

Q Sometimes, there are times when all you do is read the 
24th Article of War and ask him v;hether he understands 
it, and if he says "Yes" then you go ahead and question 
him? 

A Yes. 

Q Do your notes show whether you went ahead and make a 

detailed explanation of the meaning of the 24th Article 
of War to Prevost? 

A No, they wouldn't shov/ that. 

Q The transcript would show? 

A The transcript v/ould show that the 24th Article of V/ar 
was road and, or, explained to the man, 

Q Do you have that portion of Provost's testimony? 
A I do not, 

Q You don't have it. Now was it before you had finished 

your examination that you had transcribed that you asked 
Prevost if he wanted to put that in writing? 

A Will you repeat the question? 

Defense: Will you read it, Mr, Stoddard? 

(Question read back.) 

A Upon the completion of It, 

Q I don't londerstand you, ■ ■ 

A Upon the completion of Provost's testimony to me, 

936 



Q Yes. Then it vras at that time that you asked him if he 

wanted to put It in vriting? 
A That's right, 

But you didn't v/ant that for part of your Investigation? 
A llo, that is no part of my investigation. 

Q You had oeen asked by someTjody to as-: him that? 
A Yes, 

0„ V/ho was present at the time that the question \vas asked j if 

he wanted to put it in writing? 
A I thin!c Col, Jaworski, Capt, Tyson and myself. 

Q Just the three of you? 

A And the reporter ;, of course, 

Q, And you told Pre vest at that time, did you, that if he 

put it in writing that the statem.ent could be used against 
him? 

A That is correct. 

Q Did vou.pt hink it was not necessary to warn him further, 

A May I explain to the Court and to the Defense Counsel 
that an Individual v;ho has had training in law knov/s 
that a confession of any sort, must be prefaced If you 
are going to take it, by such warning, and it is through 
that and only in those instances, where those individuals 
desired to make confessions, written confessions, did we 
give such warning, , . ■ ■ ■ • 

Q But you had already given him a warning? 

A Under the 24th Article of Y/ar, that is right, 

(^ Did you think you had to give him another warning? 

A I thought I had to give him warning about the confession 
if written. You see, in the 24th Article of War there 
Is nothing s8.id about confessions if written can be 
used against then under the 24th Article of War, there 
is nothing in there about that, 

Q, -But you did not consider it necessary to v;arn him that 

anything he said could be used against him? 
A I said I did consider it, 

Q But now you don't recall that you asked him that? 
A I said I did recall I asked him. 

Q Well, let us not get confused now. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I don't think the witness is confused, 

1 think you are confused. Counsel. 

Defense: No, I think it is Counsel. • - 
Trial Judge Advocate: I don't think so, 

937 



"n'i : 



Q (continuing) didn't I ask you a momont ago if, that 

you felt it was necessary to advise him that his oral 
statement might bo used against him if he gave it? 

A I think you asked me twice, 

Q, Vtoat was your answer? 

A I did think it was necessary, 

Q When you were taking his oral statement? 
A Nov/ wait a minute. Oral. The other statement is for 
the record, ■ 

Q Vifell, the one he gives orally? 

A No, I am talking about after the completion of the v/rlt- 
ten statement, 

Q But when you were taking the oral statement for the 
record you did not consider it necessary to warn him 
that what he said might bo used against him? 

A No, sir. The Article of VJar 24 is the only warning we 
give a man before wo start taking testimony in the In- 
spector General's Department, 

Q And the oral part that he gav'j; you could be used against 

him, couldn't it? 
A Yes, It could be used against him, tv- .. 

Q But you did not warn him before taking that oral testi- 
mony that it might be used against him, did you? 
A No. ^ 

Defense; That is all. ' ' 

EXAIalNATION BY TtlE COURT ' ;.. 
Questions by Law Member: 

Q Colonel, when did you get to Seattle? 

A I think it was on August 29th, Colonel, 1344. 

Q You were not present on the examination that was made of 

Prevost that was made on the 5th of September? 
A The 5th of September? 

Q The 5th of September. That is the first time that Maj, 

Manchester did^ — 
A (interposing) Oh, no, sir, I was not present at that 

time,. , . 

Q Vtoen Is the first time that you recall that you saw Pre- 
vost? 

A I believe that I saw Prevost for the first time when I 

went up to the guard house, or the stockade, sometime in 
the early part of Septciiibor, at which time I did not 
question him, 

Q, At any time prior to the 30th of September, that is the 
date of the proposed exlalblt, at any time prior to that 

938 



had yoa ask:ed PreA/ost if he Vi/ould give you a statenent? 
A May I explain, Colonel, this way. You see, when we first 
started on this investigation, that is, when my part 
of the invostiga Gion started, we questioned some wit- 
nesses here on the Post unbil a certain part of the investi- 
gation had been concluded, at which time, then, we 
moved from here to the Port and continued the investiga- 
tion there. If I quesbioned Prevost on the Post here 
at Ft. Law ton, I don't remember. I could have. And I 
couldnH, but I am not sure. 

Q V^fell, Colonel, then the point of my question is this. 

On the 30th of September when Prevost v^ent to the Port, 
did he go there at your request? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, Did you personally mako the request of Prevost to go 
down to the Port to be questioned by you? 

A No, sir. I would make a request in the afternoon for 
certain witnesses to be brought in for questioning the 
following morning f nd that would not be transmitted to 
the individual by me, but given to a man who was work- 
ing for me and who would bring them down the following 
morning . 

Q Well, then, pursuant to that system, Prevost appeared 
down at the Port of Embarkation on the morning of the 
30th of September? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Now, then, prior to your asking him any questions, as 

I understand the record, you informed him of his rights 
under the 24th Article of V/ar? 

A Yes, sir. ■ ■ 

Q, And that was pertaining to matters that included, or 

were included in the 24th Article of War? 
A I don't quite get your question, sir. 

Q Well, your explaining the 24th Article of Yi^ar pertains 
solely to matters that are defined in there, in that 
Article? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Then subsequently, after you had finished your question- 
ing and answer investigation of Prevost, the question 
came up as to whether or not he would make a written 
statement in his own handwriting. 

A Yes, sir. 

Q, And it was prior to that that you told him that any state- 
ment he m£ide or that he might put in his own handwriting 
would, or could be used against him? 

A Prior to him making it, sir. 

Q, That is correct? 
A Yes, sir. 

939 



Q How, did he object In any v/ay to making that statement 

in his ovm handwriting? 
A No, sir. The fact was Prevost was very willing to talk 

and very willing to v;rite out anything without any 

encouragement whatever, sir. 

Q So it appeared to you that his action of writing out 
Exhibit 35 for identification was a voluntary act on 
his part? 

A Yes, sir, it was. ^ , 

Q Then this conversation that took place after he had 
written this statement, which took place between Col. 
Jaworski, the Trial Judge Advocate, and Prevost, v/hat 
v/as that conversation again, which you heard? 

A That Col. Jaworski, before accepting the v/riting v/hich 
Prevost had made, informed Prevost that he did not have 
to turn the writing over to Col. Jaworski, but that if 
he did it could be used against him, 

Q And it was after that statement by Col. Jaworski to 

Prevost that Prevost handed over the statement to Col. 
Jaworski? 

A That is true, sir, 

Q And did that seem to you to be a voluntary act on the 

part of this accused? 
A It was, sir. 

Q, During your question and ansv/er investigation of Prevost, 
v;ere there various exhibits around the room? 

A Yes, sir. I think that at the time that we had some of 

the objects in the room that had purportedly been gathered 
from the scene of the riot. 

Q Prior to your asking Prevost whether or not he would 
write the statement out in his own handwriting, or 
whether he wanted to, had you asked this last question 
which always ends up in an Inspector General's investiga- 
tion? 

A Yes, sir. I had completed the questioning of him in that 
way . 

Q, And that investigation was made by you as a representa- 
tive of the Inspector General's Department, in Washington, 
D.C? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q, For his information of this incident? 
A Yes, sir, as directed by General Gross, 

• ,. EXAMINATION 3Y PRESIDENT 

Questions by the President: 

Q, Col, Williams, at any time during your investigation, did 

94.0 



you make any statement to the accused, Willie Prevost, 
that night be construed as being a threat? 
A I did not, sir, 

Q Was such a statement made in your presence? 
A It ^vas not, sir, 

Q Did you at any tine make any statement which he misht 

construe as a promise? 
A I never made none of that sort, sir, 

Q Did anyone else in your presence durln^^ the InvestlFa- 

tlon? 
A None was made, sir. 

President: Any further questions? 
Questions by Law Member: 

Q At the time you originally talked to Prevost, did Pro- 
vost state to you in words or substance anything about 
having been threatened before? 

A No, sir. He made no statement to ne that he had ever 
been threatened. Colonel. 

Q You knew at the time you examined him that he had made 
a prior statement, and when I say "statement" I mean 
question and answer? 

A I am not sure that I did, I had been informed by Mai. 

Manchester that he had questioned part of these witnesses 
\mether Prevost was one of them, I don't know, sir. 

Q You never saw that particular question and answer state- 
ment taken by Maj. Manchester, or others, on a previous 
date? 

A Not previous to my questioning him, : 
Law Member: I think that is all, ' ' 

REDIR3CT EXAIJINATION 
Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q I have^one question that I would like to ask the witness. 
Col. Williams, I wish you would tell the Court, e plain 
to the Court why a written statement was taken from the 
accused, Willie Prevost, after you conolcted your inter- 
view; why was that practice followed by you? How did 
it come about? 

A About the middle of my investigation for the War Depart- 
ment, Col, Jaworski arrived in Seattle and Gen. Cook was 
here at the time, making another part of this investlga- 
txon, and we tliree, with another Judge Advocate, had a 
conference. At which time we discussed the taking of 
certain testimony and Col. Jaworski requested that if 
confessions were made that we, at the end of the confes- 
sion, at the end of our taking of testimony, that we 

941 



v/ould ask the nan if he wanted to put it dovm in writ- 
' ■ lni3 ^^i accordingly, v/hen a rnan came in and talked 

rather freely, and connected up other Individuals with 
the case, and such as the case of Prevost, then we did 
ask him then if he cared to make a written statement. 
I don't know how many cases that happened in> but sever- 
al. 

Q Was or v;as not that statement to be a part of your in- 
vestigation for the Inspector General, or was it to be 
used by someone else? 

A ■ It v/as not a part of the investigation that I vms making 
to be includod in my report. 

Trial Judge Advocate: That is all, 

E.XAI,iIlJATION BY TUB COURT 

Questions by l;Iaj. MacLennan: 

Q Colonel, in the case whore the individual was asked if he 
cared to reduce hi2 statement to writing, in each such 
case did you consider it necessary to warn him? 

A Before he made his written statement? 

Q Yes, in each case? 
A Yes, I did, 

Q The reason you consider it necessary to v/arn them in 

each case was because mainly it was not for your record, 
is that correct; the statement made being written later 
was not a part of your record? 

A No. Not because it was going to be a part of my record 
or not, but because I know from experience that a man 
who is making confessions must be warned before his con- 
fessions is taken, of what wo call in civil law, was his 
constitutional rights, and in talking to Col. Jaworski, 
we decided the procedure to be used in these cases. 

Q That included the v/arn Ing? 
A Yes, sir, 

Q And that did not include the v/arning given in the cases 

taken for the Inspector General? 
A No, we never do that, 

Maj. MacLennan: That is all. 

'■Questions by Fiaj. Crocker: 

Q On this day, September 30th, were there any charges pend- 
ing against Prevost yet? 
A No. 

Q Were there any charges pending against any accused grow- 
ing out of this incident? 
A No, sir, 

942 



Q . The entire natter v/as still in the stage of investiora- 

tion? 
A That is true. 

Trial Judge Advocate: llo further questions. 

President: Witness may be excused. 

There being no further questions, the v/itness was ex- 
cused and v/ithdrew. 

Lav/ Menbcr: I would like to have one thing appear in 
the record, and I don't know who to ask, the Trial Judge Ad- 
vocate or who to call, but I would like to know where Pre- 
vost was between the 5th of September and the 30th of Septem- 
ber. 

Trial Judge Advocate: All right, I think I can ascer- 
tain that and have the proof before you in the morning. 

Lav/ Member: Could you get it now? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I donH know by what witness I 
can prove it. I will see what witness is outside. 

Law Member: Well, let us not take a recess, but just 
ask Maj. Manchester if ho knows of his own knowledge. 

Trial Judge Advocate: I will be ga)ad to have the Court 
ask him. 

(Major Robert H. Manchester, was recalled by the Court, 
and testified as follows:) 

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY THE COURT 

Questions by Law Member: 

Q Maj. Manchester, I an interested in, — 

Trial Judge Advocate: (interposing) Pardon me. Major, 
you are reminded that you are still under oath, of course. 

The Witness; Yes, sir. 

Q (continuing) I an interested in knowing where Prevost, 
the accused, was between the 5th of September, 1944, and 
the 30th. Do you knov/, of your own knowledge? 

A Not without checking the records, sir. I could check 

certain confinement records. We have confinement requi- 
sitions and from that I could give you the information, 
sir, but from memory I could not, 

Q Were these men confined at different places, is that the 

idea? 
A Yes, sir, they were. 

943 



Q, During that period of time, from the 5th of Septem- 
ber to the 30th of September, you v/ere investigating 
this matter, were you? 

A My responsibility ceased on the 13th of September. 

That is, responsibility for the criminal phase of the 
investigation. That was terminated on the 13th of 
September. 

Q, Betv/een the 5th of September and the 13th of September, 

did you have any other conferences with Prevost? 
A Not that I recall, sir. 

Q, Were any representatives of your office: 
A Not to my knowledge. 

Q, Did you or any representatives of your office have any 
conferences with him between the 13th of September and 
the 30th of September, 1944? 

A I am certain we did not, sir. Because they would have 
been under the jurisdiction of Col. Williams. 

Q, Then the first dates that I asked you, between the 5th 
and the 13th of September, did you direct anybody to 
have any conference with Prevost? 

A I cannot answer that question, sir. It may be possible 
to secure the information from notes or records. 

Q, Well, I am interested in knowing. Major, whether during 
this period of time either you or any representative 
of your office had any direct contact or influence over 
Prevost? 

A Well, I can state, sir, that I do not recall having 
talked to the accused during that period, 

Q Did anybody from your office, also at your direction, 

have any conference v/ith the accused during that period? 

A I do not recall Issuing any order or directive to ques- 
tion him. 

Q So as far as you know the accused, Willie Prevost, was 
confined some place between the 5th of September and 
the 30th v/ith the others, or some of the others? 

A With the others, or some of the others. There were sepa- 
rations. 

Q, V^ould you bring back Col. Williams, please? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, sir. 

Law Member: That is all. Major, thank you. 

(There being no further questions, the witness v/as excused 
and withdrew. ) 

944 



(Lt. Col. Curtis Williams was rocalled by the Court and 
testified as follov/s:) 

DIRECT EXAMINATIOH 3Y TlIE COURT 

Questions by Law Member: 

Trial Jud^e Advocate: You are reminded. Col. Williams, 
that you are still under oath? 

Witness: Yes. 

Q Col. Williams, you assumed the investigation of this 

matter on what date? 
A I believe it was on Monday following the 29th of August. 

Vi/hat date was that? 

Q That is the 4th of September, 
A I believe it was, sir. 

Q Prior to your examination of Prevost on the 30th, had 

you seen Prevost at all? 
A Yes, sir. As I said before, Colonel, I had seen him in 

the mess hall of the stockade, 

Q Did you have any conversation with him? 
A I don't believe I did so, no, sir. 

Q Is that the only time that you saw him? 

A As I stated, sir, I can't be sure about that because we 

did question some witnesses here on the Post, and what 

ones those were I am not sure, 

Q, Well, did you ever question Prevost pertaining to the 
happening of this incident, other than the one that 
you have described on the 30th of September? 

A I might have questioned him twice, I am not sure. 

Q Could you tell me the date, that those were? 
A I can by referring to the record only, sir. 

Q Were they shortly before the 30th of September? 

A They v;ould be, sir. I am just thinking back of the oc- 
curences that happened, — and it would be just shortly 
before the 30th of September, because I questioned him 
before the 30th. 



Q Y/as there any time fr 
of September that Pro 
present control? 

A Again I would have to 
back to the record, 
have it in the report 
v;e question the witnc 
you at that time, but 
tigatlon, if we find 
or someone implicates 



om the 4th of September to the 30th 
vest was in your exclusive and 

say that I do not without referring 
If I took his testimony I would 
You see. Colonel, many times 
ss and take the testimony he gives 

then in going on with the inves- 
some thing more that this man knows, 
him, then we bring him back and 



945 



i^- 



question him again. 

Q V(fell is that more for the purpose of getting informa- 
tion for your formal question and answer examination? 
k That is completing the record, sir. 

Q V\fell, may I ask you this question. At any time, be- 
tween the 4th of September and the 30th, did you at any 
time ha\a direct influence over Prevost as to what he 
would or would not say upon an examination by you? 
A ColoneT may I make, --may I try to make myself clear 

A by saying this. What do you mean by direct influence. 

Do yo:i Tean by other than just a questioning? 

Ci That's right, 

A No, I had nover had any other type of influence, just 
a direct questioning of Prevost. I mean, I had never 
had an^/ direct influence other than by direct question- 
ing. 

Law Member: That is all. 

DIRECT EXAIUNATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Just one other question. Colonel. Coi. Williams, when 
you fiist got dovm here to start your investigation, 
state who Cher or not there were other angles to the in- 
vestigation in the matter of these, witnesses that turned 
out CO be accused? 

A Yes, there vi/ere several angles, as far as the Inspector 

General's investigation was concerned. 

Q And were some of these angles not gone into before these 

accused were questioned? 
A Yes, sir. 

Q Col. O'Connor asked you if anyone else was present and 

if he was ever under youo exclusive influence. Do you 
recall a single time that you and Vtfillie Prevost were 
together just alone, do you recall a single time? 

A I was never with Willie Provost alone, no. There was 

always someone present. 

Trial Judge i^dvocate: I believe that is all. 

CROSS EX/iMINATION 

Questions by Defense. 

Q One question. I tnink you testified that some general 

came out at the bemo time you did"? 
A General Cooke. 

Q He is a Brigadier General? 
A Yes. 

946 



Q Did he play any part in the questioning of these accused? 
A I believe he did question a few of them in my presence. 

Q Most of that part was left to you? 

A Yes, It was part of his section of the Investigation. 

Q I might ask you this. Do you recall the Identity of 

the three accused whom General Cooke questioned? 
A No. 

Defenses I "believe that is all. '-> 

REDIRECT EXAI II NATION 

Questions by Trial Judge Advocate: 

Q Did or not the accused, V/illie Prevost, ever identify, — 
and don't give his name. Colonel, but did he ever iden- 
tify the identity of any other accused? 

Law Member; Now, just a minute. Colonel. 

Trial Judge Advocate; I just want to show his reac- 
tions and how willing he was to make a statement* I am going 
to ask the witness to be sure not to answer and give any 
names. 

Law Member: llovi/ this has a bearing on what? 

Trial Judge Advocate: On his cooperation and willingness, 
to show what the attitude of the witness was with respect 
to Prevost. 

Law Member; His willingness to make a statement on 
the 30th of September? 

Trial Judge Advocate: Yes, as bearing on his willingness 
and cooperation and his readiness to make a statement. 

Law Member: I will allow it nov/, but be sure you do-n*t 
mention any names. Colonel. 

A (continuing) Yes, ho did. ■ ""■ 

Q V/ell, was that other accused called before Y/illie Prevost 
and did Willie Prevost identify him as being connected 
with this Incident? 

A He did. 

Trial Judge Advocate; That Is all, 

RECK OSS EXAMINATION 

Questions by defense; 

Q Does that appear in your record. Colonel? 
A It does, 

947 



Dofenso: That is all. 

President: Are there any further questions of this wit- 
ness? 

Law Member: Is that all of your evidence on the ques- 
tion of the voluntary or involuntary nature of this state- 
ment? 

Trial Judge Advocate: I am satisfied from the Prosecu- 
tion's standpoint that that will be all the evidence neces- 
sary. I have tried to bring before the Court every man who 
knows anything about this matter that v;as brought out. But 
there is one man v;ho knows something about the September 30th 
matter. He is the only other available witness, I would 
like to say that Mr, Olson is in California and if you will 
stipulate Y/ith me counsel that he is there, — Major Man- 
chester talked with me about that and, — 

Defense:' (interposing) Well, if you knov^ that of your 
own' knowledge, Colonel, I would be glad to stipulate with 
you, but' if you are taking somebody else's word into account 
for that, I cannot stipulate with you on it. 

Trial Judge Advocate: Well. I will be glad to have' ' 
that' proof for you, and we will introduce another witness, 
then, also. 

Law Member: Well, v;e will have to go on then. 

President: All right. Court vjill be in recess to recon- 
vene tomorrow morning at 9; 00 o'clock. 

The Court then took a recess? from 4:30 o'clock p.m,, un- 
til 9:00 o'clock a.m., the following morning, 

948 



IxEON JAV/ORSKI 
Lt, Colonel, JaGD 
Trial Judge iidvocate